Finally played Necrom, Mora's character didn't land for me

SickleCider · June 12

I held off on playing through Necrom until I felt like I had the time and focus to really pay attention to the storyline. Am I the only one that was a little let down by Herma Mora? I found him overall very earnest, plaintive at times. Those aren't bad traits for a character, but for the One Who Knows, the inscrutable, the eldritch, I found his whole vibe just too. . .humanized.

I suppose, in general, I felt like the story didn't take full advantage of potential opportunities. You're perfunctorily shuffled between only a few very similar looking locations in Apocrypha. I think it all could have been a lot stranger.

Some good things:

This may seem like a contradiction, but I did find Mora's model very cute and I kind of enjoyed that. The moment he leaned in and angrily squinted at [redacted] gave me cute aggression. And I'd be remiss not to mention the great job the voice actor did. Scruut was very cute, too.

I enjoy Apocrypha as a zone a lot. I like the different vivid color vibes, the strange flora, and the large mysterious fossils. It's fun to speculate what the creatures might have looked like.

I also noted some nods to The Color Out Of Space. That's my favorite Lovecraft story, so I appreciated those little Easter eggs.

I love Seekers. It was just nice to see so many of them floating around.

B O O K S.

cyclonus11 · June 12

I felt as though Herma Mora was presenting himself in a way that the hero would understand, as it was in his best interest for your character to get things right. Normally he wouldn't care.

SickleCider · June 12

cyclonus11 wrote: »

I felt as though Herma Mora was presenting himself in a way that the hero would understand, as it was in his best interest for your character to get things right. Normally he wouldn't care.

🤔 That's actually a really clever way of looking at it, him doing a bit to make himself more appealing. I like that a lot!

Finedaible · June 12

The Necrom chapter was overall fine.

I think my main criticism would be that in past titles Mora and Apocrypha leaned really heavily into the Lovecraftian cosmic horror and fear of the unknown whereas in ESO it felt a bit cartoonish. For a realm of forbidden knowledge and unknown horrors it felt like there was a lot of "this is just a typical Tuesday" vibe coming off of NPC's attitude and dialogue.

SickleCider · June 12

Finedaible wrote: »

The Necrom chapter was overall fine.

I think my main criticism would be that in past titles Mora and Apocrypha leaned really heavily into the Lovecraftian cosmic horror and fear of the unknown whereas in ESO it felt a bit cartoonish. For a realm of forbidden knowledge and unknown horrors it felt like there was a lot of "this is just a typical Tuesday" vibe coming off of NPC's attitude and dialogue.

Yeah, that was my impression, too. It was just tonally off that way. I wasn't convinced that any of the characters were particularly interested in anything that was happening, besides Mora, and you'd think he'd be the most detached of the bunch. (Though, regarding that, I do enjoy cyclonus' interpretation of his behavior.)

TaSheen · June 12

Maybe this is the way 2nd era Mora was.... and the intervening centuries to 4th era Mora are what changed him to a manipulative antagonist?

SickleCider · June 12

TaSheen wrote: »

Maybe this is the way 2nd era Mora was.... and the intervening centuries to 4th era Mora are what changed him to a manipulative antagonist?

Maybe! In that case I'd be interested to know what happened in the interim. 🤔 (Forgive me if we already know, I admit to having a shallow understanding of the lore. It's so dense.)

TaSheen · June 12

SickleCider wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

Maybe this is the way 2nd era Mora was.... and the intervening centuries to 4th era Mora are what changed him to a manipulative antagonist?

Maybe! In that case I'd be interested to know what happened in the interim. 🤔 (Forgive me if we already know, I admit to having a shallow understanding of the lore. It's so dense.)

No worries - I quite get that! I really don't think we know - I've played every TES single player title since Arena released in 1994 but can remember only two quests: the ones in Oblivion and Skyrim. And at this point, I don't remember him in Oblivion at all.... but in Skyrim of course he's that manipulative antagonist....

ArchMikem · June 12

Mora's supposed to be that one Prince that only cares about knowing everything, and thus has no reason to hold Mortals in as much of a low regard as the other more belligerent Princes do. He's basically an Intellectual. Serve his interest and he's quite civil. An Intellectual with tentacles.

opaj · June 13

Another thing to keep in mind is that the Vestige's situation and the Dragonborn's situation are quite different.

(Using spoiler tags, though I tried to keep things vague in my comment here.)

In Dragonborn (the DLC), the Dragonborn (the player character) is specifically targeted by the story's big bad, so they are incentivized to work with Mora. If the Dragonborn ignores the threat, the big bad presents an active nuisance. Hermaeus Mora has no need to be civil and can use quite the heavy hand.

In Necrom, the Vestige (or Proxy, I suppose) has to take Mora's word that bad things will happen if they don't take action. I actually really enjoyed my chats with the Golden Eye, but the player motivations for getting involved in the story felt a little weak, and the dynamic between ourselves and the Daedric Prince of Forbidden Knowledge reflected that.

Now, I adored the story and characters in Necrom, and I've been enjoying the heck out of Gold Road so far. This element of the story could perhaps have been approached differently, but it hardly bothered me at all when weighted against the tremendous work the team's put out over the last year.

katanagirl1 · June 13

I am kinda disappointed to find that all the old Mora quests have replaced the previous voice actor in favor of the new one. I liked his voice, it sounded like that of an ancient all-knowing being, but he did talk very slow. Maybe that is why he was replaced.

SickleCider · June 13

You're all providing some interesting context! I quite agree with the notion that Mora has no incentive to get as pettily worked up about the affairs of mortals, and thus, has a certain amount of civility about him. I quite like that about his character! I'm not sure I'd call him "antagonistic" in the 4th Era (maybe there's nuances to the things he says that I'm not recalling, it's been a hot minute) but the provided context about how the situations with the Dragonborn and the Vestige are different is interesting. You can understand why he has to be more soft and persuasive with the Vestige (and the other princes?) at the time.

This is great. This is what I was looking for. Sometimes it's a matter of reframing your perspective!

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I am kinda disappointed to find that all the old Mora quests have replaced the previous voice actor in favor of the new one. I liked his voice, it sounded like that of an ancient all-knowing being, but he did talk very slow. Maybe that is why he was replaced.

I wasn't aware they went back and did that. That's kind of a shame, because the old VA was good too, even if a bit s l o w.

Pelanora · June 13

I did not like him at all.

I thought removing you know who from everyone's you know what because his locked down fate lines might get disturbed was both condescending and limiting of free will.

I'm also in despair about someone who takes books written by people into a personal realm and then treats them like he does. They won't last at all. All that knowledge lost to everyone else.

And I never bought the if my realm falls Nirm falls line, especially given how it all ended.

Least fav zone story, least fav prince.

I will say I really liked Torvasand, totally rooting for him by the end.

Grizzbeorn · June 13

katanagirl1 wrote: »

I am kinda disappointed to find that all the old Mora quests have replaced the previous voice actor in favor of the new one. I liked his voice, it sounded like that of an ancient all-knowing being, but he did talk very slow. Maybe that is why he was replaced.

They probably made the replacement for consistency's sake. It's possible that the former VA wasn't available for the new content, so they re-did the older Mora content with the new VA so the character sounds the same all through the game.

SickleCider · June 13

Pelanora wrote: »

I did not like him at all.

I thought removing you know who from everyone's you know what because his locked down fate lines might get disturbed was both condescending and limiting of free will.

I'm also in despair about someone who takes books written by people into a personal realm and then treats them like he does. They won't last at all. All that knowledge lost to everyone else.

And I never bought the if my realm falls Nirm falls line, especially given how it all ended.

Least fav zone story, least fav prince.

I will say I really liked Torvasand, totally rooting for him by the end.

Omg. You are soooo right about the way he treats books. I really want to give him and the Seekers a verbal undressing about that. And the poor little Tomeshells! No wonder things look the way they do, those little guys are way too smol and overworked.

Didn't Meln make a comment about this exact issue somewhere along the line?

Finedaible · June 13

I actually liked Meln the Mouthless the most out of all the new characters. He's a delightful break from the usual stereotypes.

Inyhel · June 13

I was quite disappointed with Hermaeus Mora. In Skyrim and previous ESO appearances, he seemed much more dangerous and indifferent. A mysterious green octo-eyeball monster who liked collecting knowledge, I quite liked him.
But in this expansion he seemed like a ineffectual senile old geezer, especially with that ridiculous voice. Was it always like that? Scrut's voice was also super grating and out of place with the entire ESO world.

There were plenty of decent quests in Necrom though and the support cast were quite likeable (Leramil, Gadayn & Torvesard).

opaj · June 13

Inyhel wrote: »

I was quite disappointed with Hermaeus Mora. In Skyrim and previous ESO appearances, he seemed much more dangerous and indifferent. A mysterious green octo-eyeball monster who liked collecting knowledge, I quite liked him.
But in this expansion he seemed like a ineffectual senile old geezer, especially with that ridiculous voice. Was it always like that?

The "new" voice for Herma Mora in Necrom is actually the voice actor who played him in Skyrim...

Jaimeh · June 13

Pelanora wrote: »

I did not like him at all.

I thought removing you know who from everyone's you know what because his locked down fate lines might get disturbed was both condescending and limiting of free will.

To me it reads more like one case being the illusion of free will in a deterministic universe (ie one without you know who), and the other case being the illusion of free will in an illusionary non-deterministic universe (one with you know who), so basically it amounts to degrees of control which are higher (for both mortals and daedra) in the first case.

Pelanora · June 14

Inyhel wrote: »

I was quite disappointed with Hermaeus Mora. In Skyrim and previous ESO appearances, he seemed much more dangerous and indifferent. A mysterious green octo-eyeball monster who liked collecting knowledge, I quite liked him.
But in this expansion he seemed like a ineffectual senile old geezer, especially with that ridiculous voice. Was it always like that? Scrut's voice was also super grating and out of place with the entire ESO world.

There were plenty of decent quests in Necrom though and the support cast were quite likeable (Leramil, Gadayn & Torvesard).

Yea in craglorn he seems dangerous and willful. In necrom he seemed paternalistic and annoyingly so.

The end for me, all I heard was: 'I want to be free you lock me down' & 'so I'll lock you away forever for your and everyone's good'

Just put me straight back into sixties fantasy/sci fi. Ugh. Pre le Guin or Tepper or any of those ground breaking writers.

Pelanora · June 14

Jaimeh wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

I did not like him at all.

I thought removing you know who from everyone's you know what because his locked down fate lines might get disturbed was both condescending and limiting of free will.

To me it reads more like one case being the illusion of free will in a deterministic universe (ie one without you know who), and the other case being the illusion of free will in an illusionary non-deterministic universe (one with you know who), so basically it amounts to degrees of control which are higher (for both mortals and daedra) in the first case.

I've never bought into determinism, not for gods or anyone else.

A wild thread needed to ensure all are free in the tapestry of fates... it's very Guy Gaviel Kay.

Destai · June 14

It didn't land for me either. Character wise, he didn't seem consistent with his portrayals in other games. He's seems so...soft?...in these stories. It's as if the game assumes this fourth wall break where you know he's this horrific cosmic entity but then subverts it by showing he's more-or-less a master librarian with some indexing issues. I also didn't like how there were so many moments of "If X happens, reality is kaputs!" only for reality to shake its head, "nah, son". Lastly, just like Coldharbour, I found Apocrypha to be hard on the eyes. Definitely among my least favorite zones.

Finedaible wrote: »

I actually liked Meln the Mouthless the most out of all the new characters. He's a delightful break from the usual stereotypes.

Him and Torvesard were definitely my favorites in the Chapter.

Rebirthment · June 14

SickleCider wrote: »

I held off on playing through Necrom until I felt like I had the time and focus to really pay attention to the storyline. Am I the only one that was a little let down by Herma Mora? I found him overall very earnest, plaintive at times. Those aren't bad traits for a character, but for the One Who Knows, the inscrutable, the eldritch, I found his whole vibe just too. . .humanized.

I suppose, in general, I felt like the story didn't take full advantage of potential opportunities. You're perfunctorily shuffled between only a few very similar looking locations in Apocrypha. I think it all could have been a lot stranger.

Some good things:

This may seem like a contradiction, but I did find Mora's model very cute and I kind of enjoyed that. The moment he leaned in and angrily squinted at [redacted] gave me cute aggression. And I'd be remiss not to mention the great job the voice actor did. Scruut was very cute, too.

I enjoy Apocrypha as a zone a lot. I like the different vivid color vibes, the strange flora, and the large mysterious fossils. It's fun to speculate what the creatures might have looked like.

I also noted some nods to The Color Out Of Space. That's my favorite Lovecraft story, so I appreciated those little Easter eggs.

I love Seekers. It was just nice to see so many of them floating around.

B O O K S.

Just curious, have you played through the Dragonborn DLC in Skyrim? Ill be honest i prefer his voice there compared to here. Despite it being the same VA.

SickleCider · June 14

Rebirthment wrote: »

SickleCider wrote: »

I held off on playing through Necrom until I felt like I had the time and focus to really pay attention to the storyline. Am I the only one that was a little let down by Herma Mora? I found him overall very earnest, plaintive at times. Those aren't bad traits for a character, but for the One Who Knows, the inscrutable, the eldritch, I found his whole vibe just too. . .humanized.

I suppose, in general, I felt like the story didn't take full advantage of potential opportunities. You're perfunctorily shuffled between only a few very similar looking locations in Apocrypha. I think it all could have been a lot stranger.

Some good things:

This may seem like a contradiction, but I did find Mora's model very cute and I kind of enjoyed that. The moment he leaned in and angrily squinted at [redacted] gave me cute aggression. And I'd be remiss not to mention the great job the voice actor did. Scruut was very cute, too.

I enjoy Apocrypha as a zone a lot. I like the different vivid color vibes, the strange flora, and the large mysterious fossils. It's fun to speculate what the creatures might have looked like.

I also noted some nods to The Color Out Of Space. That's my favorite Lovecraft story, so I appreciated those little Easter eggs.

I love Seekers. It was just nice to see so many of them floating around.

B O O K S.

Just curious, have you played through the Dragonborn DLC in Skyrim? Ill be honest i prefer his voice there compared to here. Despite it being the same VA.

Yes, but I confess it's been a while. I don't play Skyrim annually like some of my friends do. 😆 Let me see if I can pull up a clip to remind myself.

*Final Jeopardy theme playing*

Hmm, yes, I hear it. Subtle differences in inflection. I think this keys into what I said about Mora seeming "earnest" in Necrom. It especially bothered me when he was bargaining with the other princes. I prefer the way the VA handled it in Skyrim, too. More focused, in a way. Thank you for bringing my attention to it!

SickleCider · June 14

Destai wrote: »

It didn't land for me either. Character wise, he didn't seem consistent with his portrayals in other games. He's seems so...soft?...in these stories. It's as if the game assumes this fourth wall break where you know he's this horrific cosmic entity but then subverts it by showing he's more-or-less a master librarian with some indexing issues. I also didn't like how there were so many moments of "If X happens, reality is kaputs!" only for reality to shake its head, "nah, son". Lastly, just like Coldharbour, I found Apocrypha to be hard on the eyes. Definitely among my least favorite zones.

Finedaible wrote: »

I actually liked Meln the Mouthless the most out of all the new characters. He's a delightful break from the usual stereotypes.

Him and Torvesard were definitely my favorites in the Chapter.

Yes, "soft" is another way of putting it. Some other users here have offered some viable suggestions about why that may be, and they're pretty clever, but it can't hindsightedly wash away that feeling I had playing through the DLC that things were tonally off.

I'm sorry you didn't like Apocrypha as a zone. I understand, though. I'm photosensitive with hyperreactive retinas, and while that zone doesn't do it to me, there are a lot in the game that hurt my eyes. I have to avoid all the snowy or desert regions during the game's daylight cycle. If I have something to do in them I have to wait for night, or at least morning or dusk.

TaSheen · June 14

I'm going to opine that the change is because of the cadence (the slooooowwwwness of Mora's statements in Skyrim/Dragonborn - and I haven't put either Skyrim or Oblivion on my new machine yet so can't really double check) - and the devs were probably pretty sure no one would wait for that in this game....

SickleCider · June 14

TaSheen wrote: »

I'm going to opine that the change is because of the cadence (the slooooowwwwness of Mora's statements in Skyrim/Dragonborn - and I haven't put either Skyrim or Oblivion on my new machine yet so can't really double check) - and the devs were probably pretty sure no one would wait for that in this game....

That may well be. Kids today with their TikToks don't have any patience for the elderly speaking.*

*I don't have patience for listening to dialogue most of the time either. It's me, the kids today with their TikToks.

Pelanora · June 14

SickleCider wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I'm going to opine that the change is because of the cadence (the slooooowwwwness of Mora's statements in Skyrim/Dragonborn - and I haven't put either Skyrim or Oblivion on my new machine yet so can't really double check) - and the devs were probably pretty sure no one would wait for that in this game....

That may well be. Kids today with their TikToks don't have any patience for the elderly speaking.*

*I don't have patience for listening to dialogue most of the time either. It's me, the kids today with their TikToks.

I do but they just go on and on.....I mean really on and on and on and on..... like nooone has spoken to them in weeks...

TaSheen · June 14

Pelanora wrote: »

SickleCider wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I'm going to opine that the change is because of the cadence (the slooooowwwwness of Mora's statements in Skyrim/Dragonborn - and I haven't put either Skyrim or Oblivion on my new machine yet so can't really double check) - and the devs were probably pretty sure no one would wait for that in this game....

That may well be. Kids today with their TikToks don't have any patience for the elderly speaking.*

*I don't have patience for listening to dialogue most of the time either. It's me, the kids today with their TikToks.

I do but they just go on and on.....I mean really on and on and on and on..... like nooone has spoken to them in weeks...

Well.... I can (at 76) be considered "elderly" but I still speak at a pretty fast rate (as I always have) with a lot of hand gestures, and I still read 1500 words a minute: in other words, many books don't last long enough to be worth what I paid for them - and Amazon's Kindle store gets a LOT of money from me - as well as reading the quest dialogue so fast I get fairly frustrated with some of the NPCs....

Araneae6537 · June 14

Rebirthment wrote: »

SickleCider wrote: »

I held off on playing through Necrom until I felt like I had the time and focus to really pay attention to the storyline. Am I the only one that was a little let down by Herma Mora? I found him overall very earnest, plaintive at times. Those aren't bad traits for a character, but for the One Who Knows, the inscrutable, the eldritch, I found his whole vibe just too. . .humanized.

I suppose, in general, I felt like the story didn't take full advantage of potential opportunities. You're perfunctorily shuffled between only a few very similar looking locations in Apocrypha. I think it all could have been a lot stranger.

Some good things:

This may seem like a contradiction, but I did find Mora's model very cute and I kind of enjoyed that. The moment he leaned in and angrily squinted at [redacted] gave me cute aggression. And I'd be remiss not to mention the great job the voice actor did. Scruut was very cute, too.

I enjoy Apocrypha as a zone a lot. I like the different vivid color vibes, the strange flora, and the large mysterious fossils. It's fun to speculate what the creatures might have looked like.

I also noted some nods to The Color Out Of Space. That's my favorite Lovecraft story, so I appreciated those little Easter eggs.

I love Seekers. It was just nice to see so many of them floating around.

B O O K S.

Just curious, have you played through the Dragonborn DLC in Skyrim? Ill be honest i prefer his voice there compared to here. Despite it being the same VA.

I never played through all of Skyrim, much less the DLC, so looked up a video — astonishing how closely ESO matched the aesthetic set! I didn’t realize that Apocrypha had previously been depicted in TES. But regarding Hermaeus Mora, the voice acting definitely sounds the same to me. Personally, I’m not a fan of the odd cadencing in both Skyrim and ESO, but a Daedric Prince, especially one who presents themselves as so relatively alien, is bound to be other than what I expect.

As to the zone, I really like the aesthetic of the Apocrypha interiors and the Infinite Archive especially.

Pelanora · June 15

TaSheen wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

SickleCider wrote: »

TaSheen wrote: »

I'm going to opine that the change is because of the cadence (the slooooowwwwness of Mora's statements in Skyrim/Dragonborn - and I haven't put either Skyrim or Oblivion on my new machine yet so can't really double check) - and the devs were probably pretty sure no one would wait for that in this game....

That may well be. Kids today with their TikToks don't have any patience for the elderly speaking.*

*I don't have patience for listening to dialogue most of the time either. It's me, the kids today with their TikToks.

I do but they just go on and on.....I mean really on and on and on and on..... like nooone has spoken to them in weeks...

Well.... I can (at 76) be considered "elderly" but I still speak at a pretty fast rate (as I always have) with a lot of hand gestures, and I still read 1500 words a minute: in other words, many books don't last long enough to be worth what I paid for them - and Amazon's Kindle store gets a LOT of money from me - as well as reading the quest dialogue so fast I get fairly frustrated with some of the NPCs....

Hmmm well speed isn't as important as understanding and absorbing, really is it? I look to be changed, by the books I read, not just to plough through them at pace like fast food.

It's not the speed of delivery of npc it's simply so much they want to tell me. I just don't want to know, really. I have an add on to turn off the text as much as I can, as it can. I like to listen to them. But brevity is the soul of wit. Pithy, witty, brevity, not a monologue moment in the stagelights, every time!