Calling it now: Torc of the Last Ayleid King is going to be overused in PvP

Caecus0

Title says it all. I know there are going to be a few people clutching their pearls in astonishment since it wasn't that long ago that players were saying it was going to be useless. This may be a little true for PvE, but PvP is a whole different story. I don't think people understand just how strong this Mythic is.

Let's look at it's stats for a minute:

It has 500 Magicka and Stamina recovery. This is literally on par with Wretched Vitality and it is up 24/7, no upkeep necessary. This is very strong.

1337 Weapon Damage is incredible. Let me give you an idea of how strong this is: Imagine a set existed that was like Hunding's Rage, except every set bonus gave Weapon damage (basically 129x3 + 300). That set bonus would have a total 687 Weapon Damage. This set bonus is almost equal to two if these types of sets combined. Bear in mind it only disables SET bonuses. It does not touch things like enchantments or traits.

This is all on top of a 15% damage reduction. Let me put it this way: to anyone who complained about Vampire Undeath, this is basically another Undeath with the downside being it isn't stronger at low health but with the upside being it is active at high health.

I tried to mimic a similar build focusing entirely on Weapon Damage, Recovery and some Damage Mitigation. Nothing I could come up with even came close. The closest I could get was:

Wretched Vitality: 519 Stam + Mag Recovery, 129 Damage (back bar only):
Rallying Cry: 6% Crit Chance, 1096 Magicka, 300 Weapon Damage and 1650 (~25%) Crit Resistance
Maryn Ring of Majesty: 200 Weapon Damage, 2314 (~3.5%) armor
Balorgh: 129 Damage at all times, 1 damage per ult spent, 23 Armor Pen per ult spent.

Just Because Torc doesn't have Crit or Magicka, let's pretend Rallying Cry had 129 damage per line rather than it's crit and Magicka. Let's also assume we are on the front bar.

Totals:

Damage: 1016
Recovery: 519 Mag + Stam recovery
Crit Resistance: 25% (as opposed to 15% reduced damage from everything)

The differences are fairly obvious. The Crit resistance is higher, but it only applies to Crits whereas the 15% damage reduction applies to everything, so I'd say the crit resistance falls short a bit. This setup has marginally higher recovery, but the difference is so small you won't even notice. The big difference with this setup, is the damage (even when we pretend Rallying Cry offers 3 lines of Damage).

The only way that this setup can come close to the stat density of Torc of the Ayleid King is by using Balorgh with at least 100 Ultimate, where you will have +100 Weapon Damage and 2300 Armor pen. Your raw power will be lower at this point, but the penetration will make up for it in terms of stat density. Going further will overcome Torc, but the obvious downside is that this is not up 24/7.

What I am showcasing here is that even if I pick 2 of the most stat dense armor sets in the game, plus a mythic, then pretend one of the sets gives nothing but damage, that hypothetical setup still just falls short of Torc EXCEPT when the user decides to use their ultimate. Meanwhile, Torc is up at all times on either bar. It begs the question of why use anything except Torc? Unless the answer is to use a more fun but gimmicky build that you know gimps you, there doesn't appear to be any reason to not use it.

xylena_lazarow

I'm still skeptical, it's been out a while now. Can you post a Superstar or UESP of a full build?

Metemsycosis

Lowkey lots of people talking about this set for necro and Templar, classes that aren't top tier.

SkaraMinoc

For non-proc build, it's good. Very dense. But there are stronger builds with procs.

Necrotech_Master

it would be great if this worked in the no proc camps lol, but last i heard i dont think it does, even though its all flat stats

CameraBeardThePirate

It'd be great if people could actually get the leads to drop.

Even after the most recent patch, I have yet to receive a single lead from this thing, and know a lot of other players in the same camp.

RomanRex

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It'd be great if people could actually get the leads to drop.

Even after the most recent patch, I have yet to receive a single lead from this thing, and know a lot of other players in the same camp.

I’ve gotten three completed so far.

You just have to play infinite archive a ton, which is ironically one of the least PvP-like activities.

As mentioned above, there are many superior options. I don’t see this as a super powerful piece, but useful for alts who don’t have better gear.

Necrotech_Master

RomanRex wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It'd be great if people could actually get the leads to drop.

Even after the most recent patch, I have yet to receive a single lead from this thing, and know a lot of other players in the same camp.

I’ve gotten three completed so far.

You just have to play infinite archive a ton, which is ironically one of the least PvP-like activities.

As mentioned above, there are many superior options. I don’t see this as a super powerful piece, but useful for alts who don’t have better gear.

i wouldnt say a "ton" cause the leads are fairly RNG (im working on my 3rd copy of the mythic and i only do an avg of 1 run in the archive a week right now lol)

xDeusEJRx

i wouldnt mind this set becoming meta, the amount of procs would go down a lot, which would be healthier for the game imo.

People are sick of proc metas so this is a breath of fresh air since this item is getting popularity

CameraBeardThePirate

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

RomanRex wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It'd be great if people could actually get the leads to drop.

Even after the most recent patch, I have yet to receive a single lead from this thing, and know a lot of other players in the same camp.

I’ve gotten three completed so far.

You just have to play infinite archive a ton, which is ironically one of the least PvP-like activities.

As mentioned above, there are many superior options. I don’t see this as a super powerful piece, but useful for alts who don’t have better gear.

i wouldnt say a "ton" cause the leads are fairly RNG (im working on my 3rd copy of the mythic and i only do an avg of 1 run in the archive a week right now lol)

I've run about 15 Arcs since Gold Road and haven't dropped a single lead.

Ran another maybe 30-40 Arcs the entirety of last patch without a single lead drop either.

I'm convinced the mythic doesn't exist.

Necrotech_Master

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

RomanRex wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It'd be great if people could actually get the leads to drop.

Even after the most recent patch, I have yet to receive a single lead from this thing, and know a lot of other players in the same camp.

I’ve gotten three completed so far.

You just have to play infinite archive a ton, which is ironically one of the least PvP-like activities.

As mentioned above, there are many superior options. I don’t see this as a super powerful piece, but useful for alts who don’t have better gear.

i wouldnt say a "ton" cause the leads are fairly RNG (im working on my 3rd copy of the mythic and i only do an avg of 1 run in the archive a week right now lol)

I've run about 15 Arcs since Gold Road and haven't dropped a single lead.

Ran another maybe 30-40 Arcs the entirety of last patch without a single lead drop either.

yeah i feel for that, some pretty bad RNG there

if i had to guess thats pretty close to the same number of total arcs ive run since the last patch too

i wish i could help with that, but sometimes the RNG just feels like it wants to troll

Caecus0

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

I'm still skeptical, it's been out a while now. Can you post a Superstar or UESP of a full build?

I tried, but UESP isn't up to date it would seem. Torc isn't on there yet.

As a side note, when I was messing around to get these findings, I noticed UESP doesn't include the power given by the Markyn set bonus in it's totals.

I can do everything manually but it's been a bit of a process. Right now I wanted to focus on the raw Value given by TOTLAK (Torc of the Last Ayleid King).

I'm not confident in saying it is overpowered, which is why I am very careful to avoid calling it that. However, it is EXTREMELY stat dense. It seems to slightly outperform builds with extremely stat dense sets like Wretched Vitality and Rallying cry (I picked those for that exact reason). It isn't a massive difference, but it's enough that people might flock to it for min-maxing purposes.

The only reason I'm thinking we aren't seeing it too much right now is that people seem to have trouble getting it (I can't tell you how many people I've seen complain they can't get the leads to drop).

Caecus0

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

it would be great if this worked in the no proc camps lol, but last i heard i dont think it does, even though its all flat stats

I'm thinking this may be a bug, because that is very odd.

Then again it could be on purpose for that exact reason; it would be insane in No-CP/No-proc settings.

Caecus0

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

i wouldnt mind this set becoming meta, the amount of procs would go down a lot, which would be healthier for the game imo.

People are sick of proc metas so this is a breath of fresh air since this item is getting popularity

I'm not saying I disagree with you, but by that logic they could just buff non-proc sets.

Turtle_Bot

I've ran this mythic for a while on different classes now. It's definitely good, but the meta proc sets still easily outperform it. It is definitely up there for stat builds though and tbh, I could see this being a good thing for the dueling scene to balance out the millions of set combos that are now available in the game, meaning less hassle for organizers needing to read/understand every single set for a tournament.

From my testing this is how it performs on the classes:

• Sorc (stam) - This is one of (if not the) best spec to run this mythic. The damage bonus is nice and allows this spec that already hits hard to hit harder, but where this mythic shines for this spec is the defensive aspects. Flat 15% mitigation + 500 to both recoveries allows for an extreme amount of sustain and defense that is only really matched in efficacy by a 60k max mag ward.
• Plar - This is probably second behind stamsorc, but for the opposite reasons. Plar has a lot of tankiness already, but its abilities lack raw damage despite the damage modifiers it has access to and it can have some sustain issues. The damage from this mythic even makes PotL/Jabs become threatening if you don't have evasion and beam is just brutal if you're even close to 50% health.
• NB - This mythic is amazing in general for a Stat-blade build as NB already has 99% of available buffs/debuffs/effects in the game in its kit and has the room to fit everything that's relevant on their bars with slots to spare. Proc sets will still outperform this mythic due to cloak and the damage modifiers the class has, but for a stat build this mythic is BiS for this class.
• Sorc (mag) - This is lower down on the list because the mythic does nothing for ward which is objectively the current best way to play magsorc. However if going for a damage spec magsorc build this mythic performs fairly close to stamsorc. Stamsorc is still just flat out stronger/more flexible for a raw damage build, so this will always be behind, but it does help the mag version of this spec that's not dependent on ward be a viable alternative for the same reasons outlined for stamsorc.
• Necro - This mythic gives necro the raw stats that make up for the lack of buffs in the class kit. Necro is still awkward and clunky, but it at least has the raw stats to compete when equipped with this mythic.
• Warden - This is similar to NB, in that proc sets will perform better on this class (especially an arctic blast damage build), but a 45k health polar + 2h dizzy Stamden with this mythic is definitely something to be respected.
• Arc/DK - tbh I haven't tried it on these classes, but I could see it working on them both, with arc building similar to warden and DK building similar to plar, just with more pressure and less healing.

The mythic is definitely strong, as for taking over the meta, that depends. It will likely be a strong alternative for those who want to play stat builds, but the current procsets keep up with it and are generally easier to play. Where this mythic really shines though is for those who want to learn to play stat builds because it gives similar stat density to the best stat sets while being much easier/more forgiving to play (similar to original oakensoul, just less broken because it can't be used with procs).

xylena_lazarow

Can someone please show some actual numbers of what a finished build with this mythic looks like? Thanks.

Turtle_Bot

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Can someone please show some actual numbers of what a finished build with this mythic looks like? Thanks.

Here's a very quickly thrown together version of what it looks like on a 2h stamsorc:

And stats:

- Pretty much just the standard buffs that you will have when buffed up solo (major sorc/brut/resolve/prophecy, minor berserk/force/resolve/expedition).
- Mundus is mag recovery, could easily switch that for spell damage/pen if you feel 1300 mag recovery is enough (puts the build at 7800 spell damage or 9k base pen if you choose those mundus).
- Race is dark elf, could switch to wood elf, khajiit or orc and get better sustain/crit/bulk while keeping the damage.

Tooltips:

Dizzy has an 18k tooltip


curse has 19k


executioner has 7.4k with 400% scaling.


overload is nearly 16k light attacks (energy morph, power morph is 17.5k)


DB is 25k burst, 30k DoT


Probably don't need ward, since vigor has a 31k tooltip (~30k on back bar), so could play around with that if you wanted, this frees up attribute points for mag/stam instead of health for even more damage.

Unbuffed you're looking at about 6.4-6.7k spell damage (depending on mundus).
Back bar resistances are 25k phys, 27k spell res. This does not include the 15% mitigation from the mythic or any other percent mitigation.


Note: Torc doesn't disable other sets in the build editor so that's why all the random set pieces are shown (to ensure no set bonuses are active).

Turtle_Bot

Also note that the build editor doesn't have scribing skills available yet. You can easily swap ward out for healing morph of wield soul (with resource restore + vitality) and run that back bar, with vigor front bar and dark deal becomes the sustain/buff skill and not the main burst heal.

xylena_lazarow

@Turtle_Bot thanks, the tooltips help a lot! Big numbers, lacks crit but looks very strong. Worth checking out.

Sporigudinai

So, can i use 10 parts of shattered Fate with this Mythic? Or it will not work?

Necrotech_Master

Sporigudinai wrote: »

So, can i use 10 parts of shattered Fate with this Mythic? Or it will not work?

this mythic disables all other set bonuses

Turtle_Bot

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

@Turtle_Bot thanks, the tooltips help a lot! Big numbers, lacks crit but looks very strong. Worth checking out.

The build (on sorc) doesn't really need crit damage since it hits so hard already and sorc cares much more about crit chance than it does crit damage because sorc wants to proc crit surge as often as possible (ideally every second) and crit damage doesn't do anything to facilitate that (or scale its healing).

---

Also, here is a quick version of this build (with this mythic) for Arcanist:

A few things to note on this build:

• You can easily swap 2h for DW and run blood craze for a less mobile, but tankier (with more damage/pen) brawler style of build that has more healing over time from the blood craze DoT (or you can just run entropy which does the same but also currently essentially negates cloak for 20 seconds, just slightly lower heal than blood craze).
• People laugh when they see stampede being used, but a 7.7k tooltip that always crits (86% crit damage for an effective tooltip of 14.3k which is barely lower than dizzy which is at 14.5k tooltip on this build) is no joke, especially since it's also a gap closer and has an AoE DoT. You can use the other morph if you encounter lots of sorcs since it increases its damage by up to 50% based on distance travelled, so it can reach 7.3k x 1.5 x 1.86 = 20.4k effective tooltip at max range, on a gap closer.
• I have made the jewelry traits for health, same as the mundus to buff ward, since damage is already very high that even more is typically overkill, but you could swap either the mundus or jewelry traits for damage mundus or infused traits and hit harder but be around 38k health instead of over 40k.
• Back bar resistances are 29k phys, 30k spell (these increase by 3k when runeguard procs).
• Back bar has 400 more mag recovery and 250 more stam recovery than front bar.
• This is showing with bear haunch, you can easily swap out for frothgar/trifle food and gain 1k more health + ~130 of the chosen recovery at the cost of 350 of the other recovery. (I like frothgar since there are a lot of mag costing abilities, but both work well since trifle will help if you are not on the defense much).
• The race used for this build is wood elf, but orc would probably be best race since it gives more health as well as stam/damage and passive healing.

Here are the tooltips for this build:

Flail:

Note: flail generates crux, heals for nearly 3k (after applying battle spirit) and has a built in execute that reaches a 21.5k effective tooltip at 1% health.

Stampede:

Crit rush:

Impervious:

That's a 14k shield, with a 5.4k heal (shield value is after applying battle spirit reductions) that also deals 4.4k damage back to the attacker. In all honesty, Hardened Ward doesn't stay at it's full value beyond the first second anyway because if it does, that means the enemy is not dealing any damage to you at all, at which point, why are you wasting GCDs on ward that could be used to deal damage or buff/debuff.
Note: you have 3 abilities that generate crux and only 1 that uses it, so all your crux is sitting there passively buffing your abilities until you need to use impervious.

DB:


Treatise:

Note: this is permanent major brut/sorc while slotted so no GCD required to get that buff (same as aegis is for sorcerer), but this also adds a 6k tooltip proc to flail.

Vigor:


Runeguard:

Note: yes this doubles up on minor resolve with vigor, but giving unique flat 3k armor + an 8k+ heal (after applying battle spirit) and full CC immunity is not to be ignored. it combines insanely well with ward since you ward to switch to back bar cast this then when the ward breaks you instantly heal back up.

Sanctum:

A couple of additional points:

Escalating Runeblades is not a bad spammable either, no point using it over flail due to how loaded flail is, but it is significantly stronger than crushing shock since the first hit deals the same damage as 1 hit of crushing shock, but runeblades increases its damage by 10% for the second hit and an additional 30% for the third hit (with an additional passive bonus 9% damage if you have 3 crux active, does not consume the crux).

Sure, Arcanist doesn't have a traditional "delayed burst" like curse, but Treatise is very close and fills that nicely being a ~6k damage proc that automatically times itself to a cast that can deal its damage 5-6 times (for a total of 30-36k free damage over the 30 second duration) that is also passively providing major brut/sorc while slotted on either bar.

xylena_lazarow

@Turtle_Bot I'd go with the more complete PvP kits for this mythic. Arc without procs isn't putting on enough pressure, but their pen and status passives have perfect MDW/Vatesh/Draugrkin synergy. Cheaper cost Crit Rush would function better than Stampede since you're not using the weak ground AoE to proc anything, but either Quick Cloak or Race is better yet since you can use those both offensively and defensively on a class that otherwise lacks a viable disengage.

Firstmep

Its strong, but stats will get you so far.
It offers no pen or crit, so it will make you very tanky with high heals and the dmg reduction, but it's far from optimal offensively.
And ofc proc sets can provide additional damage sources in ways that a high stat build just wont hold up to.

Not saying its bad, love it on ranged plar for sure.

Just not the end all be all.

TechMaybeHic

It's actually looking better than I thought. I don't think it's too far, though. Gives a stat build a chance outside of sorc; but procs give just as much total power and easier execution

divnyi

*yawn* another chase PvP mythic that would be nerfed after one patch.

Major_Toughness

It is not bad if you are going for full stat build.

Things like Ranged Templar, arctic blast warden (I actually got a marginal higher TT on Arctic than Polar), NB to an extent.

If you don't have time to farm sets, or gold to constantly keep up with meta, you just want to log in and go PvP, then this works.

It is not better than using regular builds, especially if you dislike "tank meta". Using torc you are giving up the best options to kill them which is Balorgh, Jerrals, or Zaan.

Aurielle

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

RomanRex wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

It'd be great if people could actually get the leads to drop.

Even after the most recent patch, I have yet to receive a single lead from this thing, and know a lot of other players in the same camp.

I’ve gotten three completed so far.

You just have to play infinite archive a ton, which is ironically one of the least PvP-like activities.

As mentioned above, there are many superior options. I don’t see this as a super powerful piece, but useful for alts who don’t have better gear.

i wouldnt say a "ton" cause the leads are fairly RNG (im working on my 3rd copy of the mythic and i only do an avg of 1 run in the archive a week right now lol)

I've run about 15 Arcs since Gold Road and haven't dropped a single lead.

Ran another maybe 30-40 Arcs the entirety of last patch without a single lead drop either.

yeah i feel for that, some pretty bad RNG there

if i had to guess thats pretty close to the same number of total arcs ive run since the last patch too

i wish i could help with that, but sometimes the RNG just feels like it wants to troll

For real. I wasn’t even trying to get this mythic, and I got the last lead while farming IA for the multi-target script on my alts. I have noticed that my character that runs IA (Arcanist) generally tends to be “luckier” than others… it’s odd. Maybe I need to start trying to get ink on my Arcanist.

Might give the mythic a try on my Templar. I main Stamplar, but it’s getting increasingly disappointing to play. Would be nice to try a magplar build in Cyro without having to gold out another set of gear.

Durham

Stamplars are in a tough spot right now because you are a melee toon and right now a nightblade is the king of melee they can 1 combo kill you right now even as a brawler-style night blade.. You are also weak to ranged attacks and this is a range attack meta. Currently, all of your melee-centric builds are weak due to the current ranged meta that we are in.

The only exception is Nightblades they are among the best of both worlds.

ZDunlain

Imho it is not op, procs are far better but for builds trat benefit from raw stats it helps a lot but not op by any chance. I tried to fight (many times and different people, Im used to duel and play a lot PvP so no skill ceiling here) with torc as a stamplar another stamplars with zaan, rc and essence thief and they can destroy you really easy. So procs are much better but in general, torc is a strong option but not the best thing in the world.

divnyi

ZDunlain wrote: »

Imho it is not op, procs are far better but for builds trat benefit from raw stats it helps a lot but not op by any chance. I tried to fight (many times and different people, Im used to duel and play a lot PvP so no skill ceiling here) with torc as a stamplar another stamplars with zaan, rc and essence thief and they can destroy you really easy. So procs are much better but in general, torc is a strong option but not the best thing in the world.

Did you roll med or heavy? Strong regen sets were historically most overpowered on heavys.