Play the way you want

yadibroz

I really wanna understand the meaning of this from the Devs and the players?
I don't understand players complaining about people that they can't play the way they want as example a templar using restoration staff as healer and people expect them to use all healing abilities and no dps which to me is boring especially if you are main solo and same with tank, for me I have all classes to have the 8 main different weapon to use and even with damage abilities because I choose to play the way I want as solo and that is fun but I just don't understand why people keep complaining about it and taking it too serious and why can't people like me have fun in a unbalanced game so please explain it to me to understand better.

Shadow-Fighter

You have also master it

Sync01

I personally don't like the phrase because it gives some people the idea that they should be able to do all types of content however they want, completely ignoring that them playing however they want in group content means someone else needs to make up for it. For example, if a healer is not healing in a trial then dds might need to slot heals, meaning they can't play how they want.

As a side note healers do more than just heal though. We also buff, debuff and yes do dps. The less healing is required (depends on content, and how much damage the players are taking) the more we can do other things.

Soarora

Play how you want really only applies in certain aspects of the game, which creates friction between groups of the community and also is a problem in and of itself. I can make an only jabs templar build that does, lets say 45k DPS. That might be the way I want to play, but that level of damage just won't work outside of normal dungeons at the maximum. Even my thematic builds such as my bleedblade and frostden which hit 90k+ on the dummy aren't going to be wanted in certain content, though that can come down to the group lead. The group lead does choose the flexibility they have based on the content though, like you're going to go full meta for RG HM because the DPS check you need to clear to kill Xalvakka is so high. But we also can't let builds become overpowered or else endgame becomes even easier than it already is while we only have very few content that's actually still hard for people at the top (which despite being a smaller percentage, still matter quite a lot as those are the people teaching others).

The problem I see is we need DPS checks throughout content that will help people understand the need for growth but not so high of DPS checks in endgame content that there's no wiggle room from the meta. Mechanics should be the hard thing to beat, not the DPS checks. DSR Twins for example, did this well and why I think DSR--despite the bugs ZOS still needs to fix... ZOS... please--is one of the best made trials. You have many mechanics, but you can't even burn through them unless you are really the top .05% of players. Even in DSR though, I'd bring an arcanist but this has more to do with the cleave damage required because all the bosses have adds and the trash packs are deadly.

Hapexamendios

Basically comes down to this:

Solo do whatever you want.

In groups there are certain expectations especially in harder content.

Tallon_IV

People have been parroting that for years because of one box art that said "Play The Way You Like" which was taken out of context. It meant the variety of activities and playstyles within the game, not that you can go into a vet HM trial in some goofy build. There's plenty of flexibility in builds outside of vet trials though, within reason.

TheMajority

because to dps the weapon in the way which is accepting across everyone, you have to do the 'meta' and the meta is accepting and not play the way you want it's not accepting.

to do the weapon in a way which is not the ideal, is to dps in a way which is poorly- poorly dps will result in the unhappiness and lack of accepting from your fellow player, because they don't do the dungeon for their dps only, but also the dps which is yours from the weapon you will carry.

8 different weapon could not be ideal for the class, and so not accepting in your way of play to others. only the weapon best for the build is accepting

for play the way you want, the solo play is better- because other player will ultimately not find the play your way ideal to them, only the way of playing which is the one they picked as meta

so its play the way you want truly, you can play the way you want in this game, because the developer allows it. the player? they don't allow you to play the way you want it's enforced by themselves

you could play the way that is wanted, but they don't allow themself this adventure, only the perfect and right choice they find most correct. they don't play the way they want, and I feel sadness when I see it

rest assured that you will have more fun solo, or with a guild that has more spirited view of playing how each person wants but together instead of only meta together

Sync01

TheMajority wrote: »

so its play the way you want truly, you can play the way you want in this game, because the developer allows it. the player? they don't allow you to play the way you want it's enforced by themselves

you could play the way that is wanted, but they don't allow themself this adventure, only the perfect and right choice they find most correct. they don't play the way they want, and I feel sadness when I see it

That's just not the case, group content has requirements set by the developers in terms of dps and heal checks - some a lot higher than others. If the group is not able to meet those requirements they can't do the content, which is where optimising builds come in.

Oliviander

"Play the way you want" is dead for me since they introduced Account Wide Achievements

I wanted to make all my Chars (18 then) Grand Master Crafters !
And I already had 5 and each of the others had only less then 10 motifs missing
and then BING it was cancelled.

Soarora

Sync01 wrote: »

TheMajority wrote: »

so its play the way you want truly, you can play the way you want in this game, because the developer allows it. the player? they don't allow you to play the way you want it's enforced by themselves

you could play the way that is wanted, but they don't allow themself this adventure, only the perfect and right choice they find most correct. they don't play the way they want, and I feel sadness when I see it

That's just not the case, group content has requirements set by the developers in terms of dps and heal checks - some a lot higher than others. If the group is not able to meet those requirements they can't do the content, which is where optimising builds come in.

This is true. There are self-imposed DPS checks to avoid mechanics however there are also ZOS-imposed DPS checks of various levels that if you fail, you die. Such as but not limited to:
- Yoln HM - he will make everyone explode if you take too long.
- FV - There's a guy with a damage shield you have to kill.
- RG HM (all bosses) - First boss, you run out of pools. Second boss, you get overwhelmed with adds. Third boss, the room fills with lava and you die.
- DSR HM (2nd and third boss) - There are things that must be killed by a small number of people and if they aren't killed, everyone dies.
- AS+1/+2 - The minis will enrage if you don't kill them, and they will kill everyone.
- CR - The crystals in the portals must be killed.
- SCP - Last boss, the frost women will result in a wipe if not killed.
Et cetera...

There's also the aspect of, it becomes much harder to tank the longer a fight goes on due to low DPS, so there's a soft DPS check in the capability of your tank.

Thormar

Basically, it's Play how you want when in overland.
And Play how it's expected when in group content.

sleepy_worm

ZOS patch notes: Play Your Way Wait Not Like That

-edit-

Tallon_IV wrote: »

People have been parroting that for years because of one box art

It's not just old box art.

FlopsyPrince

Some seem to want to make almost all the content harder. I don't solo the really hard stuff, so I am more or less "playing as I want" though I would like many simple QoL improvements!

AnduinTryggva

Sync01 wrote: »

I personally don't like the phrase because it gives some people the idea that they should be able to do all types of content however they want, completely ignoring that them playing however they want in group content means someone else needs to make up for it. For example, if a healer is not healing in a trial then dds might need to slot heals, meaning they can't play how they want.

As a side note healers do more than just heal though. We also buff, debuff and yes do dps. The less healing is required (depends on content, and how much damage the players are taking) the more we can do other things.

I also don't like that phrase but for other reasons.

I dislike it because while you can do MOST content with any appropriate build that fulfils the required functionality and role, some end content only can be reasonably done with special builds.

Just see the thread ranged vs melee: the tendency is really favoring ranged setups and when doing end content even small things matter and where "play as you want" ends. (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/658451/fight-mechanics-and-ranged-vs-melee#latest)

colossalvoids

This phrase is one of the marketing fails that keeps giving to this day. It's as misleading as it can be as players tend to fantasize about it's meaning in their own ways ignoring the initial intent.

You can equip sword and board on your heavy armoured magica sorcerer with pets, battle daedra back to the oblivion questing and be happy. But people stretched it way more willing to do everything the game has to offer without any optimisation or justify their lack of mechanical understanding with this exact phrase. Generally it sets a false premise for some that it's the game binds to you and not you following game's rules and mechanics, while you actually have a lot of freedom with any of those IF you make some effort researching and getting experience.

Nerouyn

colossalvoids wrote: »

This phrase is one of the marketing fails that keeps giving to this day. It's as misleading as it can be as players tend to fantasize about it's meaning in their own ways ignoring the initial intent.

You can equip sword and board on your heavy armoured magica sorcerer with pets, battle daedra back to the oblivion questing and be happy. But people stretched it way more willing to do everything the game has to offer without any optimisation or justify their lack of mechanical understanding with this exact phrase. Generally it sets a false premise for some that it's the game binds to you and not you following game's rules and mechanics, while you actually have a lot of freedom with any of those IF you make some effort researching and getting experience.

Agree up to a point but I wouldn't place any blame on players here.

Complete freedom of character development is one of THE key distinguishing features of the single player Elder Scrolls games.

If you're going to make an MMO based on one of the THE most popular single player RPG franchises obviously you'd stick to that. Right?

ESO is better than some MMOs but nowhere near the single player games in this respect.

colossalvoids

Nerouyn wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

This phrase is one of the marketing fails that keeps giving to this day. It's as misleading as it can be as players tend to fantasize about it's meaning in their own ways ignoring the initial intent.

You can equip sword and board on your heavy armoured magica sorcerer with pets, battle daedra back to the oblivion questing and be happy. But people stretched it way more willing to do everything the game has to offer without any optimisation or justify their lack of mechanical understanding with this exact phrase. Generally it sets a false premise for some that it's the game binds to you and not you following game's rules and mechanics, while you actually have a lot of freedom with any of those IF you make some effort researching and getting experience.

Agree up to a point but I wouldn't place any blame on players here.

Complete freedom of character development is one of THE key distinguishing features of the single player Elder Scrolls games.

If you're going to make an MMO based on one of the THE most popular single player RPG franchises obviously you'd stick to that. Right?

ESO is better than some MMOs but nowhere near the single player games in this respect.

Blame is surely on zos, not the other way around. They led people to believe the game is something it's not whilst not lied about anything in particular, just sticked a highly interpretable message to it for a good marketing. And it's backfiring to this day where new people joining each have a very different idea of what it supposed to mean and having issues adapting within actual game, not marketing material about it.

Sync01

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Sync01 wrote: »

I personally don't like the phrase because it gives some people the idea that they should be able to do all types of content however they want, completely ignoring that them playing however they want in group content means someone else needs to make up for it. For example, if a healer is not healing in a trial then dds might need to slot heals, meaning they can't play how they want.

As a side note healers do more than just heal though. We also buff, debuff and yes do dps. The less healing is required (depends on content, and how much damage the players are taking) the more we can do other things.

I also don't like that phrase but for other reasons.

I dislike it because while you can do MOST content with any appropriate build that fulfils the required functionality and role, some end content only can be reasonably done with special builds.

Just see the thread ranged vs melee: the tendency is really favoring ranged setups and when doing end content even small things matter and where "play as you want" ends. (https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/658451/fight-mechanics-and-ranged-vs-melee#latest)

I didn't go into any detail in my post but what I meant by all types of content includes the harder fights. Players will eventually hit a wall where they can no longer play as they want if they want to complete all achievements. Some might even argue that the worse a player is, the earlier they have to make adaptions to their build to make up for their lack of skill. But yes, I do agree with you.

kyatos_binarini

"Play The Way You Like" in this game is like "ESO is available on macOS" - partly true, but mostly not. Those phrases exaggerate the profitable and completely hide the essential.

I believe that such an interpretation of ideas is not far from a lie.

moderatelyfatman

yadibroz wrote: »

I really wanna understand the meaning of this from the Devs and the players?
I don't understand players complaining about people that they can't play the way they want as example a templar using restoration staff as healer and people expect them to use all healing abilities and no dps which to me is boring especially if you are main solo and same with tank, for me I have all classes to have the 8 main different weapon to use and even with damage abilities because I choose to play the way I want as solo and that is fun but I just don't understand why people keep complaining about it and taking it too serious and why can't people like me have fun in a unbalanced game so please explain it to me to understand better.

The were referring to the arcanist class:
'Play (arcanist) the way you want (because their dps is so high and you can ignore many mechs)'.

Oznog666

yadibroz wrote: »

I choose to play the way I want as solo and that is fun but I just don't understand why people keep complaining about it and taking it too serious and why can't people like me have fun in a unbalanced game so please explain it to me to understand better.

People are complaining when you are solo? Why should they? It's more or less the same as in real life - as long as you don't bother other people (or violate a law) everything will be fine. And for Ingame: as long as you are alone you can do what you want. But as soon as you are part of a group you are supposed to fulfill your role at least a little bit. And that means: if you are a tank then you should be able to have enough life to survive bosses heavy or special attacks and taunt at least the boss. A bit of crowd control would be nice too. And if you are no tank then you should not use any taunt at all. If you are a healer then you should be able to take care for your group or at least for the tank. And if you are a DD then you should do as much damage as possible and rez fallen group members. And never ever you should do a speedrun except the others are agreeing, you should not run away from tank and healer and you should not run around like a chicken - especially as tank.

But if you don't like this, then just stay alone, don't be part of a group. Easypeasy isn't it?

Blood_again

'Play the way you want' means you can literally do anything within the rules and expect the same behaviour from other players.

Consider that it does not guarantee you anything of:
- success, whatever you've set as your goal,
- social acceptance,
- no suffering in the process.

As an example, the mentioned "ways" include but not limited with:
- you can run anywhere naked, with no skills and no gear used
- you can join any group in any role, even if you don't have a clue what it means and where all those people go
- you can kick anybody if you don't like their appearance, behavior or just because, if you manage
- you can tell everybody else that they play in a wrong way, even if you don't really have a clue how the game works
- you can expect other people run a vet dlc trial in your group totally naked, with one skill and a broom in their hands
- you can expect somebody joined your group with a wrong role and with no idea what to do
- you can expect you will be kicked from any group by any cause, if they manage
- you can be told how to play by anybody, no matter you asked them for advice on not

That's how freedom works with pros and cons.

opalcity

Play the way you want when you're solo, but when you're in a group, you have to set aside ego and do what is best for the group.

robpr

Play the way you want. It doesn't mean that 'way' is gonna be efficient everywhere.

Blood_again

As for people complaining:
when you play in a group, people always have expectations of how the group acts. If you don't fulfill their expectations as a group member, they will complain, advise, kick etc.
On the other hand, you are totally free to have your expectations and tell them what you want them to do.

Why people even bother it?
People usually run the group content for some reward. They do it many times and try to optimize the group's time and effort. Roles and duties, as tank and healer dedicated roles, are a variant of such optimization. That way everybody sacrifices a part of  "how they want" for a common group profit.

The tricky part is that expectations may be different. Players have various experiences and opinions about how it should work.
Today people tell you that you have to cover full healing duty if you join as a healer. Another day another player will tell you that healers are not neccessary, just do damage. Different groups, different people - different ideas.
It can be confusing and frustrating, but that's how the group game works.

Just remember that you don't owe people to fulfill all their wishes, especially if it is a random player.
If you don't like the requirements you can always leave the group, or kick the player if you have gathered the group.
It is a good idea to find a group of people you like to play with, and to find a compromise what you do and don't do for random groups.

CMDR_Un1k0rn

This is yet another point where ESO runs almost perfectly parallel with Elite. So I will once again use this to bring some outside persepctive from another game.

You see a lot of people there trying to run ships that frankly, do not work for what they are trying todo, simply because strictly speaking they can make such builds...

Then get upset when people won't run with them on certain content because they are a liability, and could be better winged with someone who understands how the game works.

It's the most wildly misinterpreted phrase in video games since the first game of Pong.

I think many folks read it as "there are no set rules."

This simply isn't the case in almost any given game. Esepcially when it comes to MMOs, a genre that perhaps more than any other tries to purport itself as having massive customisation.

And that's just it. Customisation isn't a license to go into any and all content without a thought on how to best set yourself up for whatever task you have at hand. It means that there are many, many possible solutions.

And guess what? Some of those are objectively better than the rest. It's a numbers game. All games are.

It is true that nobody is going to stop you running whatever in say, Overland, delves, public dungeons, or hell, even PvP if you are solo/zerg. Why would they? That isn't content where you being competent for the task really matters. Or at least you only hamper yourself if you aren't performing well.

In harder PvE content where teamwork and coordination are key, however? Yes, you can and should expect to be met with, well, expectations.

And be promptly criticised or even kicked if you do not play along.

So what does "Play the way you want" really mean?

To me, the answer is simple. It's not about the way you build your character or ship. It's about not having to feel pressured to do content you do not want to do. Nobody will judge you for simply never doing Trials. I certainly find myself in them very rarely as I prefer story questing and PvP.

That is me, playing the way I want. Note how that doesn't equate to "Complete endgame trifecta in meme build" or whatever edge-case example you might think of?

Danikat

I think ZOS intended it to mean 2 things:

1) There's a lot of different activities in the game and you can pick which ones you want to focus on. If you're not interested in parts of the game you can largely ignore them and focus on the stuff you do like.

2) Any race (and gender) and class can be any type of build. There's a lot of RPGs (including MMOs) which restrict your choices - if you make say an elf templar (or a templar at all) then you're a healer and can only ever be a healer, and so on.

As far as I'm aware ZOS have never used it to mean that any build will be effective or welcomed in all parts of the game.

Tommy_The_Gun

I think that "play as you want" slogan not always being true has a lot to do with class / skills / spec balance and those drastically differ when it comes to "maximum" power & combat effectiveness. For instance, someone who "is playing as they want" and they want to play Werewolf, even if they are decent, they will have hard time compared to someone who just wants to play an "assasin" (NB) or "mage" (Sorc). Those 3 spec are just not comparable. Even if you min-max as Werewolf spec, you will be vastly inferior to a NB or Sorc or DK that is not min-maxing. This also translates to content being harder, not because you wanted harder content, but because the game is not flexible enough as it does not have spec that would fit your playstyle & power fantasy.

There are more nuances, like for example PvP where on top of different classes you also have meta playstyles. There, "Play as you want" is true only if you are playing in Ball Group.

Tra_Lalan

You can play the way you want, but other players can also play the way they want.
What they want and what you want may be different, that is all.

Tenthirty2

I just don't read into that too much anymore and people need to stop harping on that phrase every time some little thing happens in-game that they don't like.

Of all the games I've played, which is a lot, ESO has by far the most customization options, build variations, appearance and activity varieties I've experienced in any one game.

That said, I can't expect to show up in a trial group with a complete potato build and expect others won't get irritated when I'm not even able to pull my own weight.

it's very much like real life. A person can be almost anything they wish, act however they want.
But when it comes time to interact with other people, you may find you have to make concessions or adapt a bit to play nicer with others.

Or a person can refuse to adapt and just go live on an island somewhere without other people.
But if they are obnoxious enough even the monkeys that call that island home will get tired of said person's BS after a time.

Auldwulfe

Sync01 wrote: »

I personally don't like the phrase because it gives some people the idea that they should be able to do all types of content however they want, completely ignoring that them playing however they want in group content means someone else needs to make up for it. For example, if a healer is not healing in a trial then dds might need to slot heals, meaning they can't play how they want.

As a side note healers do more than just heal though. We also buff, debuff and yes do dps. The less healing is required (depends on content, and how much damage the players are taking) the more we can do other things.

The issue is that you can exactly reverse this statement, and it is also true - if they play how they want, then someone has to make up the difference, not playing how they want, but if person number 2 does the same, playing how they want, then person number one, cannot ......

No matter how you come at this, someone is being forced to play, at least partially, in a way they do not wish to.

What Zos needs to do is revamp the way they do the roles.... and honestly, as someone who has played all of them, not slotting your own heal, especially in ANY PUG setting, is foolish.... does that mean I am taking away the healer's job? No, you cover your own tail......

In my opinion, and I am specifically stating opinion - ZOS should create class / role specific sets -- just one for each role in a class - that if you want to queue for that role, you must have equipped --- such as DK Tank, or Templar Tank, or Templar Healer ... it enhances those skills that class uses, and each armor set should have a pre-requisite of one required slotted skill --- for example the tank role requires that you have one of the puncture skills or morphs, slotted, or you CANNOT equip the set, and therefore the system does not let you queue for that role -- yes, you can play ANY WAY you want, solo, and you can use ANY other sets with the one - but if they are going to force roles, then they need a way to certify those roles in a group.

Auldwulfe