Why ESO players are not into it?

JanTanhide

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Sporigudinai wrote: »

Looking at the SteamCharts numbers, we can see that ESO have almost the same number of players online as Albion Online, Path of Exile, Black Desert, Diablo IV, etc... But, if you look at the top most watched games on Twitch (https://www.twitchmetrics.net/games) this month or any other, we can see ESO way back at the bottom of it. So, i was wondering, why that happens?
Is the game boring to watch? Need more good streamers? No time for it?

U35 is what happened. That was the last straw for most of the end game streamers. You can google "Nefas U35" and see a 45 minute or so video as to all the reasons U35 was the last straw.

In a nutshell, ESO adopted a major focus on recruiting new, casual players and left the dedicated veteran players in the ditch and drove off without them.

100% agree. U35 killed ESO by driving off thousands if not tens of thousands of veteran players. We lost Discord channels dedicated with hundreds of Vet players that ran people through Vet hard core dungeons and trials. All gone. And it wasn't because they just left, it was specifically due to Update 35 and stated by many as why. Every guild I was in lost many Vet players including me. I left the game for about a year and only returned when Update 40 was released because a friend of mine asked me to return.

Go look at how horrid Update 35 was and what it did. ZOS pushed it on us and I'm sure that their income dropped accordingly when subs were cancelled.

thorwyn

I always find it a bit awkward when people are patting themselves on the shoulder by emphasizing that they don't watch games on twitch or any other platform because "why watch when I can play it". I mean.. why watch football if you can play it? Or basketball? Or any other activity? It's not an exclusive choice, it's not an a or b thing.. you can do both, watch AND play!
If watching streams is not your thing, then that's totally fine, don't get me wrong. But this argument is just flawed. It's like celebrating your backwardness.
I'm watching a lot of streams simply because I want to get an idea of a game before I buy it. Few games out there are offering demo versions these days and my list of shame on steam is already large enough, so I try to avoid running into another disapointment. I also watch streams of people who are doing some special things like speedruns, no-hit runs or whatever. It's fun to watch stuff like this in the background.

TaSheen

Eh, there's no way I ever did any sport (SO not my thing) - and now in my mid 70s it's beyond extremely unlikely that I would be out there "playing" any sport....

My "RL sport" was riding my horse. But horses get old and die, and at the point he went to horse meadows heaven, I was too old to start over with another one. Horses are a younger person's game.

Melivar

Closing in on 50 here and while the only streams I typically actively watch are the official streams. If I am not questing or running group trial content I will normally throw someone's stream up and listen as background noise while I am playing.

This started with doing so just for twitch drops at first but then moved into enjoying the conversation and banter of many of the ESO streaming community. This helps to support them as well as moving my free twitch sub to someone new every month. Every once in a while, I will hear something that will make me pause and tab back to twitch to see what's going on.

ThePlayer

There is no vertical progression of the game, many players (at least in the long run) may not like this.
Currently the standard updates concern new dungeons, new trials, new game areas.

There hasn't been a progression in the level for a long time, many of the CPs refer to different builds, so if you are a pure DDs (who only plays pve) you won't wear out most of them.

In conclusion, the game expands horizontally by adding new sets but the role-playing component of the game is zero in terms of progression; in addition to this, lag problems persist in trials and in all forms of pvp (I would say even during quests..).

Naturally some improvements have been made, such as the new group finder system, the future scribing, but something is always missing, I don't know what... perhaps a mix between simplification and improvements.

P.S. the game is not boring, perhaps repetitive, currently there is a lack of competition in the dps that existed years ago (everyone now reaches +80k easily), of course some more charismatic streamer is needed.

jaekobcaed

I'd argue that ESO has significantly higher player counts than what's on Steam. I'm planning to buy the Gold Road collection on Steam, as I need to catch up on several chapters and I want my Bethesda collection all on Steam, but anyone who bought the game before it launched on Steam plays via an independent launcher.

That said, ESO is designed to be played however people want to play it. Considering the fact that it's based off of TES, a single-player sandbox RPG series that emphasizes freedom and exploration, it makes sense that it wouldn't be super popular on streaming sites like Twitch. People watch Twitch to be entertained and, well, let's be honest: watching a person slowly and methodically explore, read notes, do voiced quests and customize their characters isn't exactly the most exciting thing to watch live.

Zodiarkslayer

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Are people born with this level of condescension or did you have to practice?

I can't speak for the others, but I have been raised in a time where earning a living still involved actual labour.

Look, when I write what I really think about streamers and Twitch I'll probably get banned. All I can say is that watching streamers is incredibly passive and dangerously disenfranchising. And I feel people should be aware of what Twitch really does with all the data of their activities.
I mean, you are not "just watching", you are also being watched...

shadyjane62

What is to twitch? One ball group annihilating another group of solo players?

One ball group taking over a whole map hanging about to farm kills without taking the keep?

Or one sweatie in a tower while 15 people try to kill him?

moo_2021

I'd only watch when someone provides important guides in video, and always with a lot of skipping and pausing.

twev

I used to watch some streamers on a second screen while I played the game - just for the company, and discussion.

But most of the good/knowledgeable veteran streamer/players quit the game over the lag and skills not working, and a lot of the current streamers just aren't very good, informative, or 'fun' anymore.
At this point even I'm better than most of the guys streaming anymore.

alpha_synuclein

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

alpha_synuclein wrote: »

Are people born with this level of condescension or did you have to practice?

I can't speak for the others, but I have been raised in a time where earning a living still involved actual labour.

Look, when I write what I really think about streamers and Twitch I'll probably get banned. All I can say is that watching streamers is incredibly passive and dangerously disenfranchising. And I feel people should be aware of what Twitch really does with all the data of their activities.
I mean, you are not "just watching", you are also being watched...

I've been born a while ago as well. And raised in a manner that won't allow me to berate how others make their ends meet. Even if what they do is not very deep form of entertainment. There was always a market for it and it always will be.

And yes, I am aware how twitch and it's likes work. You either paying a fee or you're paying with your data. Usually both. It's quite common knowledge nowadays.

VouxeTheMinotaur

just not entertaining in the slightest. First streamer I watched for ESO was xynode gaming, only to quickly realize it's just mostly his toon standing there, doing nothing, and making comments on other players he's grouped with on how they should be doing this and not that. then stands there again.

thought maybe it was just him, looked for others, but nope. they're all mundane and boring, doing the same thing.

I think what it is, the streamers aren't doing something in ESO that's unobtainable to most players. If you look at streamers for games like apex legends, where the play competitively in high ranks that many find difficult to climb to, that's entertainment to some because of the chaos and skill that's needed. In ESO? all you have to do is search "builds for Vateshran Hollow" in google and you get told everything that needs to be done, do it, and its done. There is no special skill that's needed for most content, so watching someone do something that everyone else can or has done, why bother?

Elsonso

VouxeTheMinotaur wrote: »

In ESO? all you have to do is search "builds for Vateshran Hollow" in google and you get told everything that needs to be done, do it, and its done. There is no special skill that's needed for most content, so watching someone do something that everyone else can or has done, why bother?

Well, the main reason to bother is that people don't know how to do it and want to watch someone do it. That is what people like Xynode can do for them. He runs the dungeons and does the content. As he does this, he talks about the mechanics on his stream and people can see what he does.

VouxeTheMinotaur

Elsonso wrote: »

VouxeTheMinotaur wrote: »

In ESO? all you have to do is search "builds for Vateshran Hollow" in google and you get told everything that needs to be done, do it, and its done. There is no special skill that's needed for most content, so watching someone do something that everyone else can or has done, why bother?

Well, the main reason to bother is that people don't know how to do it and want to watch someone do it. That is what people like Xynode can do for them. He runs the dungeons and does the content. As he does this, he talks about the mechanics on his stream and people can see what he does.

the premade edited videos he has on Youtube that breaks down the mechanics and builds and such, yes, absolutely those come in handy and are very helpful. I've watched several of those videos.

But the Live twitch streams, of course, people still find them very helpful if they're just starting out the game, but for me personally I find it to be as I said in my previous comment. Even when I first started playing, it still was not entertaining to me to watch live streamers. I'd rather watch a quick 10-15 min video than a 3-hour stream with a lot of back-and-forth talk. But again, this is just my personal preference, nothing to do to discredit Xynode or other streamers. To each their own

Elsonso

VouxeTheMinotaur wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

VouxeTheMinotaur wrote: »

In ESO? all you have to do is search "builds for Vateshran Hollow" in google and you get told everything that needs to be done, do it, and its done. There is no special skill that's needed for most content, so watching someone do something that everyone else can or has done, why bother?

Well, the main reason to bother is that people don't know how to do it and want to watch someone do it. That is what people like Xynode can do for them. He runs the dungeons and does the content. As he does this, he talks about the mechanics on his stream and people can see what he does.

the premade edited videos he has on Youtube that breaks down the mechanics and builds and such, yes, absolutely those come in handy and are very helpful. I've watched several of those videos.

He does that on the stream, as well. I am sure that some people like to see mechanics applied as they happen, rather than some edited video. On the stream, you can see when his timing is off, or when things don't go exactly as planned, and you can see how he recovers, if that is something that can be done.

Yes, I have watched him. He is one of a handful of streamers, in my opinion, that actually teach how to play the game, on and off stream. I have no hesitation about suggesting people watch him, if that is how they like to get their information.

While I have done it, I am not a big fan of watching streams and YT videos to learn anything. People learn by making mistakes while failing to do things, so the streams are just delaying that. Opinions vary, though.

twev

Elsonso wrote: »

VouxeTheMinotaur wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

VouxeTheMinotaur wrote: »

In ESO? all you have to do is search "builds for Vateshran Hollow" in google and you get told everything that needs to be done, do it, and its done. There is no special skill that's needed for most content, so watching someone do something that everyone else can or has done, why bother?

Well, the main reason to bother is that people don't know how to do it and want to watch someone do it. That is what people like Xynode can do for them. He runs the dungeons and does the content. As he does this, he talks about the mechanics on his stream and people can see what he does.

the premade edited videos he has on Youtube that breaks down the mechanics and builds and such, yes, absolutely those come in handy and are very helpful. I've watched several of those videos.

He does that on the stream, as well. I am sure that some people like to see mechanics applied as they happen, rather than some edited video. On the stream, you can see when his timing is off, or when things don't go exactly as planned, and you can see how he recovers, if that is something that can be done.

Yes, I have watched him. He is one of a handful of streamers, in my opinion, that actually teach how to play the game, on and off stream. I have no hesitation about suggesting people watch him, if that is how they like to get their information.

While I have done it, I am not a big fan of watching streams and YT videos to learn anything. People learn by making mistakes while failing to do things, so the streams are just delaying that. Opinions vary, though.

Your next-to-last sentence may be partially true, but it needs to be noted that some people find it helpful to see what works, and how it works, and then an explanation of the reason why A may work better than B in some cases.

In other cases, seeing that doing the correct process not working may be more indicative of lag and glitches rather than method and technique, can be helpful because it saves players from abandoning correct skill play when correct actions and timing fail to provide successful results in the cases where the game lag itself is the source of failure.

LyricsEcho

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Sporigudinai wrote: »

Looking at the SteamCharts numbers, we can see that ESO have almost the same number of players online as Albion Online, Path of Exile, Black Desert, Diablo IV, etc... But, if you look at the top most watched games on Twitch (https://www.twitchmetrics.net/games) this month or any other, we can see ESO way back at the bottom of it. So, i was wondering, why that happens?
Is the game boring to watch? Need more good streamers? No time for it?

U35 is what happened. That was the last straw for most of the end game streamers. You can google "Nefas U35" and see a 45 minute or so video as to all the reasons U35 was the last straw.

In a nutshell, ESO adopted a major focus on recruiting new, casual players and left the dedicated veteran players in the ditch and drove off without them.

Yet nefas is still playing and streaming eso.

Elsonso

LyricsEcho wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Sporigudinai wrote: »

Looking at the SteamCharts numbers, we can see that ESO have almost the same number of players online as Albion Online, Path of Exile, Black Desert, Diablo IV, etc... But, if you look at the top most watched games on Twitch (https://www.twitchmetrics.net/games) this month or any other, we can see ESO way back at the bottom of it. So, i was wondering, why that happens?
Is the game boring to watch? Need more good streamers? No time for it?

U35 is what happened. That was the last straw for most of the end game streamers. You can google "Nefas U35" and see a 45 minute or so video as to all the reasons U35 was the last straw.

In a nutshell, ESO adopted a major focus on recruiting new, casual players and left the dedicated veteran players in the ditch and drove off without them.

Yet nefas is still playing and streaming eso.

He left for a while, but yeah, I have seen that he has been more active over the last couple months.

I don't know if that is indicative of the rest of the people who left, though. Maybe. One thing about people is that they tend to forget with time, so it is possible that some of them returned after it no longer seemed as important to them as it was.

LaintalAy

When I was a lad, you stood behind the "guy" with the HIGH SCORE and watched him do it in person.

Back then there wasn't another person in the arcade taking notes of what you were eating, drinking, wearing or carrying; or asking for your address. Unlike today.

I don't watch this stuff, because it never occurs to me. Demographics, I guess.

Gray_howling_parrot

ESO population is broken up between:

- Steam
- Players who just utilize the launcher
- XBOX
- PS

We'll never be able to see true player numbers - steam charts can really only be used for trends in ESO's case specifically.

Skoomah

It comes down to entertainment value. Twitch streamers for ESO are boring to watch. Whenever I try to watch, there’s a lack of cool stuff happening, something funny to laugh to or at. The vast majority of Twitch streamers forget they’re main objective should be to entertain.

AD_Tuggo

I have tinnitus and have to sleep with some ambient noise. I'll throw on twitch because the content lasts fairly long enough for me to fall asleep. Between that and my fan I won't be driven insane by the Neverending ringing.

liliub17_ESO

thorwyn wrote: »

I always find it a bit awkward when people are patting themselves on the shoulder by emphasizing that they don't watch games on twitch or any other platform because "why watch when I can play it". I mean.. why watch football if you can play it? Or basketball? Or any other activity? It's not an exclusive choice, it's not an a or b thing.. you can do both, watch AND play!

........because some people prefer to actually do the thing rather than watch others do the thing? There's no "patting themselves on the shoulder", it's simply an attempt to explain the stance. My gaming time is very limited. Why would I use that time to watch someone in an overland exploration/quests when I can simply log in and explore/quest myself?

thorwyn wrote: »

If watching streams is not your thing, then that's totally fine, don't get me wrong. But this argument is just flawed. It's like celebrating your backwardness.

What "backwardness" would that be, in your opinion? The argument is only flawed if you don't agree, it appears, given how many have suggested similar reasons.

thorwyn wrote: »

I'm watching a lot of streams simply because I want to get an idea of a game before I buy it. Few games out there are offering demo versions these days and my list of shame on steam is already large enough, so I try to avoid running into another disapointment. I also watch streams of people who are doing some special things like speedruns, no-hit runs or whatever. It's fun to watch stuff like this in the background.

::nods:: But we're not talking people watching gameplay before the game is released. We're talking real players in a game which was released a decade ago. Sure, tips and pointers may be learned for things such as speedruns or vet trials, but overall streams? And to take it a bit further, touching on your own example, to have a stream "in the background" would mean I'm working on something real-life-related, not gaming, since I am a pesky doer and not a watcher. Listening to a visually-based game is not, unfortunately, conducive to good concentration at the bill-paying task at hand. And I find no joy or use in listening rather than doing.

Perhaps that's the "backwards" argument you disdain and don't seem to understand.

Sporigudinai

liliub17_ESO wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

I always find it a bit awkward when people are patting themselves on the shoulder by emphasizing that they don't watch games on twitch or any other platform because "why watch when I can play it". I mean.. why watch football if you can play it? Or basketball? Or any other activity? It's not an exclusive choice, it's not an a or b thing.. you can do both, watch AND play!

........because some people prefer to actually do the thing rather than watch others do the thing? There's no "patting themselves on the shoulder", it's simply an attempt to explain the stance. My gaming time is very limited. Why would I use that time to watch someone in an overland exploration/quests when I can simply log in and explore/quest myself?

thorwyn wrote: »

If watching streams is not your thing, then that's totally fine, don't get me wrong. But this argument is just flawed. It's like celebrating your backwardness.

What "backwardness" would that be, in your opinion? The argument is only flawed if you don't agree, it appears, given how many have suggested similar reasons.

thorwyn wrote: »

I'm watching a lot of streams simply because I want to get an idea of a game before I buy it. Few games out there are offering demo versions these days and my list of shame on steam is already large enough, so I try to avoid running into another disapointment. I also watch streams of people who are doing some special things like speedruns, no-hit runs or whatever. It's fun to watch stuff like this in the background.

::nods:: But we're not talking people watching gameplay before the game is released. We're talking real players in a game which was released a decade ago. Sure, tips and pointers may be learned for things such as speedruns or vet trials, but overall streams? And to take it a bit further, touching on your own example, to have a stream "in the background" would mean I'm working on something real-life-related, not gaming, since I am a pesky doer and not a watcher. Listening to a visually-based game is not, unfortunately, conducive to good concentration at the bill-paying task at hand. And I find no joy or use in listening rather than doing.

Perhaps that's the "backwards" argument you disdain and don't seem to understand.

But the main point i wanted to talk about, is why other MMORPG games have viwers, great numbers then ESO, even ESO having more player base. What appeals more at the other games to have higher numbers, while ESO can´t.
I´m not saying ESO is worse as a game (i think is one of the best righ now), it´s just a question that popped at my mind.

Elsonso

Sporigudinai wrote: »

But the main point i wanted to talk about, is why other MMORPG games have viwers, great numbers then ESO, even ESO having more player base. What appeals more at the other games to have higher numbers, while ESO can´t.
I´m not saying ESO is worse as a game (i think is one of the best righ now), it´s just a question that popped at my mind.

There are a number of reasons to watch a stream of someone playing a game, any game, but an interesting question about the other MMO games is when people are watching but not playing. Are they unable to play, like if they are at work, or is watching someone play more fun than actually playing the game? I mean, if they could be playing the game, but they are watching it, what is that actually saying?

GooGa592

LyricsEcho wrote: »

SaffronCitrusflower wrote: »

Sporigudinai wrote: »

Looking at the SteamCharts numbers, we can see that ESO have almost the same number of players online as Albion Online, Path of Exile, Black Desert, Diablo IV, etc... But, if you look at the top most watched games on Twitch (https://www.twitchmetrics.net/games) this month or any other, we can see ESO way back at the bottom of it. So, i was wondering, why that happens?
Is the game boring to watch? Need more good streamers? No time for it?

U35 is what happened. That was the last straw for most of the end game streamers. You can google "Nefas U35" and see a 45 minute or so video as to all the reasons U35 was the last straw.

In a nutshell, ESO adopted a major focus on recruiting new, casual players and left the dedicated veteran players in the ditch and drove off without them.

Yet nefas is still playing and streaming eso.

The carry and teaching guild Nefas ran is not still running. They are not putting out new how-to's and are no longer teaching runs of the toughest content in the game. They stopped when U35 dropped.

EdjeSwift

Elsonso wrote: »

Sporigudinai wrote: »

But the main point i wanted to talk about, is why other MMORPG games have viwers, great numbers then ESO, even ESO having more player base. What appeals more at the other games to have higher numbers, while ESO can´t.
I´m not saying ESO is worse as a game (i think is one of the best righ now), it´s just a question that popped at my mind.

There are a number of reasons to watch a stream of someone playing a game, any game, but an interesting question about the other MMO games is when people are watching but not playing. Are they unable to play, like if they are at work, or is watching someone play more fun than actually playing the game? I mean, if they could be playing the game, but they are watching it, what is that actually saying?

Well.. a pretty good reason why people might be watching an MMO stream can be found here: https://www.twitch.tv/drops/campaigns ; which, if you don't have a twitch account, tracks "rewards" you can earn for watching a certain game on stream for a set amount of time. And look, 3 other MMOs have ongoing rewards right now. I'm sure if you went to the tracker and looked at April, ESO would have pretty big numbers near the start cause of the nice drops they had from the celebration.

Elsonso

EdjeSwift wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Sporigudinai wrote: »

But the main point i wanted to talk about, is why other MMORPG games have viwers, great numbers then ESO, even ESO having more player base. What appeals more at the other games to have higher numbers, while ESO can´t.
I´m not saying ESO is worse as a game (i think is one of the best righ now), it´s just a question that popped at my mind.

There are a number of reasons to watch a stream of someone playing a game, any game, but an interesting question about the other MMO games is when people are watching but not playing. Are they unable to play, like if they are at work, or is watching someone play more fun than actually playing the game? I mean, if they could be playing the game, but they are watching it, what is that actually saying?

Well.. a pretty good reason why people might be watching an MMO stream can be found here: https://www.twitch.tv/drops/campaigns ; which, if you don't have a twitch account, tracks "rewards" you can earn for watching a certain game on stream for a set amount of time. And look, 3 other MMOs have ongoing rewards right now. I'm sure if you went to the tracker and looked at April, ESO would have pretty big numbers near the start cause of the nice drops they had from the celebration.

Ok, so are they actually _watching_ the stream, or are they off doing something else while their browser displays it? I suppose it does not matter as long as there are numbers.

Although, drops really don't matter for ESO since all ZOS hands out is the Ouroboros Crown Crate. I figure that is like paying to watch a stream because the player has to open and dispose of all that stuff.

Necrotech_Master

Cooperharley wrote: »

ESO population is broken up between:

- Steam
- Players who just utilize the launcher
- XBOX
- PS

We'll never be able to see true player numbers - steam charts can really only be used for trends in ESO's case specifically.

steam uses the same servers as PC, same goes for those who got it on epic

so there isnt a difference at all between steam/epic/zos launcher users

it does make a difference when referencing things like steam charts which only tracks the users who launch through steam, so its a subset of PC players, but even if it were divided evenly across steam/epic/zos launchers steam would only represent 33% of the playerbase, and in reality is probably less (if i had to hazard a guess, steam + epic is probably less than 30-35% combined)

Vrienda

I don't watch streams. I get some folks can have interesting personalities to watch but I generally would rather play a game myself.