Heavy/Light armor Penalty vs Bonus

Sparkrip

So to preface this, I want to say a big kudos to the dev team for actually making hardy and preparation and crowd control multiplicative rather than doing what they did with lucent echoes and just making it a smaller additive value. There is one thing you forgot however, the new bonuses are now multiplicative dmg mitigation however the penalties are still in the additive section in the equation. I don't think I need to explain why that's bad suffice to say please address this before the patch goes live, please make the penalties multiplicative as well rather than additive with base game mitigation.

Proof: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2145592706?t=00h27m05s (twitch will only keep this up 7 days)

Sparkrip

Sorry forgot to tag but @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

Sparkrip

oh yes while we are on the subject of incorrectly calculated penalties, please take a look at the penalty for vamperism it is currently additive making the pain of being a vampire quite high especially if we are going to have this new system. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin

zbzszzzt123

Just to add onto Spark’s post, here is a quick summary of what the latest changes mean.

Spark has done a lot of work on this subject, would be great if the devs could see this and take seriously as it’s one of the most fundamental mechanics in this game

Sparkrip

Quick correction zeebs, Minor aegis is still an additive 4% with base game mitigation ect.

sneakymitchell

There is the potion that increase armor rare yes but if your set doesn’t have any armor the. Be best for that to get highest mitigation as standard. The other will always be minor. Can always counter with minor protection or aegis. Whatever works.

Only problem I see is how it affects with the hardest content and will the future content will tone down the huge damage and DoT damage. The cp tree for mitigation is mid or below cause how damage done is calculated to multiply mostly which is always best.

Reason why I never touch them unless I won’t be doing damage at all of tanking. Cause having more stats and using revealing blow heals. With crit heal from finesse is more beneficial than mitigation.

Dracane

We have not to worry luckily, because Light Armor is dead and not used by anyone in any content anymore. Just that 1 pity piece if you feel like it.
Mag and stam DDs > Medium, Healers > Medium, Pvp stam build > Medium, Pvp mag build > Medium

Quethrosar

armor is stupid in this game. medium armor makes you run faster but its heavier than light armor ? light armor should give most damage because you are freer to move in it.

Soarora

Dracane wrote: »

We have not to worry luckily, because Light Armor is dead and not used by anyone in any content anymore. Just that 1 pity piece if you feel like it.
Mag and stam DDs > Medium, Healers > Medium, Pvp stam build > Medium, Pvp mag build > Medium

PvE healers still use light armor (5-7 pcs) while some tanks use 1pc light armor (or even more). Damage taken in light armor is still important to balance correctly.

SkaraMinoc

Soarora wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

We have not to worry luckily, because Light Armor is dead and not used by anyone in any content anymore. Just that 1 pity piece if you feel like it.
Mag and stam DDs > Medium, Healers > Medium, Pvp stam build > Medium, Pvp mag build > Medium

PvE healers still use light armor (5-7 pcs) while some tanks use 1pc light armor (or even more). Damage taken in light armor is still important to balance correctly.

Yep I do all my trifectas in 7 light as a healer. Works great and we still get close to 10k wd/sd for everyone with group sets.

Dracane

Soarora wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

We have not to worry luckily, because Light Armor is dead and not used by anyone in any content anymore. Just that 1 pity piece if you feel like it.
Mag and stam DDs > Medium, Healers > Medium, Pvp stam build > Medium, Pvp mag build > Medium

PvE healers still use light armor (5-7 pcs) while some tanks use 1pc light armor (or even more). Damage taken in light armor is still important to balance correctly.

Of course. It was a joke. Nothing should be neglected.

I saw healers discuss that medium armor is better for raw healing power if you can sustain yourself well enough. I found it funny, because it goes to show the state in which Light Armor is.

Sparkrip

I guess I should mention this here but they arent going to change the penalties, someone showed me a patch note or a comment where they said they want penalties to be additive.

Soarora

Sparkrip wrote: »

I guess I should mention this here but they arent going to change the penalties, someone showed me a patch note or a comment where they said they want penalties to be additive.

Well then. I mean, I guess tanks taking more damage makes healers more important and tanking harder, which is generally needed but I do neither role in RG HM or DSR HM.

silky_soft

Dracane wrote: »

We have not to worry luckily, because Light Armor is dead and not used by anyone in any content anymore. Just that 1 pity piece if you feel like it.
Mag and stam DDs > Medium, Healers > Medium, Pvp stam build > Medium, Pvp mag build > Medium

Easy,

Remove block cost reduction from bonus

Medium armor penalty per piece
-7% duration to shields

Dracane

silky_soft wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

We have not to worry luckily, because Light Armor is dead and not used by anyone in any content anymore. Just that 1 pity piece if you feel like it.
Mag and stam DDs > Medium, Healers > Medium, Pvp stam build > Medium, Pvp mag build > Medium

Easy,

Remove block cost reduction from bonus

Medium armor penalty per piece
-7% duration to shields

Medium armor should indeed finally receive penalties. -Shield duration sounds like a good start.

FoJul

Sparkrip wrote: »

So to preface this, I want to say a big kudos to the dev team for actually making hardy and preparation and crowd control multiplicative rather than doing what they did with lucent echoes and just making it a smaller additive value. There is one thing you forgot however, the new bonuses are now multiplicative dmg mitigation however the penalties are still in the additive section in the equation. I don't think I need to explain why that's bad suffice to say please address this before the patch goes live, please make the penalties multiplicative as well rather than additive with base game mitigation.

Proof: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2145592706?t=00h27m05s (twitch will only keep this up 7 days)

This only matters in the sweaty of the sweatiest builds. hate to break it to you, but Zos caters to casuals, and pretty sure they will tell you that.

Soarora

FoJul wrote: »

Sparkrip wrote: »

So to preface this, I want to say a big kudos to the dev team for actually making hardy and preparation and crowd control multiplicative rather than doing what they did with lucent echoes and just making it a smaller additive value. There is one thing you forgot however, the new bonuses are now multiplicative dmg mitigation however the penalties are still in the additive section in the equation. I don't think I need to explain why that's bad suffice to say please address this before the patch goes live, please make the penalties multiplicative as well rather than additive with base game mitigation.

Proof: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2145592706?t=00h27m05s (twitch will only keep this up 7 days)

This only matters in the sweaty of the sweatiest builds. hate to break it to you, but Zos caters to casuals, and pretty sure they will tell you that.

Just because it may not matter to you, doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter. We are all players of the game here, all our experiences matter. The community wouldn’t be where it is today if it weren’t for the sweats and the casuals. Besides, this affects every tank or even tanky players (like solo players and pvp players) whether they’re aware of it or not. And if ZOS only cared about casuals, the game would be very different than it is now (ex. RG HM wouldn’t be so hard, LA weaving would be gone, there would be no one to influence game balance for the better like is Sparkrip trying to do here, which did get us some change)…

FoJul

Soarora wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Sparkrip wrote: »

So to preface this, I want to say a big kudos to the dev team for actually making hardy and preparation and crowd control multiplicative rather than doing what they did with lucent echoes and just making it a smaller additive value. There is one thing you forgot however, the new bonuses are now multiplicative dmg mitigation however the penalties are still in the additive section in the equation. I don't think I need to explain why that's bad suffice to say please address this before the patch goes live, please make the penalties multiplicative as well rather than additive with base game mitigation.

Proof: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2145592706?t=00h27m05s (twitch will only keep this up 7 days)

This only matters in the sweaty of the sweatiest builds. hate to break it to you, but Zos caters to casuals, and pretty sure they will tell you that.

Just because it may not matter to you, doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter. We are all players of the game here, all our experiences matter. The community wouldn’t be where it is today if it weren’t for the sweats and the casuals. Besides, this affects every tank or even tanky players whether they’re aware of it or not. And if ZOS only cared about casuals, the game would be very different than it is now (ex. RG HM wouldn’t be so hard, LA weaving would be gone, there would be no one to influence game balance for the better like is Sparkrip trying to do here)…

Light attack weaving is gone...Just play arcanist. HM isn't for casuals? and never was intended to be. They put out enough content to keep ppl happy, but don't actually change anything. They think this game is like WoW and has a huge following with millions of subscribers. I doubt they have 100k subscribers.

This game is deffinetely going towards a casual PoV... Think about it. Pve is bland. Pvp is bland. But they always have tons of stories and easy delves and side quest to explore. You can live a lifetime in ESO casually playing..

If I applied myself and really wanted to sweat it up, Can get with my friends core team and get all HM's cleared in a few months.

PvP is a joke.

With that being said, My statement still stands, that zos is in their own little world. If I had to guess, the only reason they changing mitagation to begin with, is 1, there is a possible exploit. Or 2 they are creating something in the future, that will cause and exploit. (for example a set that buffs champion points or something).

I hope zos proves me wrong.

Soarora

FoJul wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Sparkrip wrote: »

So to preface this, I want to say a big kudos to the dev team for actually making hardy and preparation and crowd control multiplicative rather than doing what they did with lucent echoes and just making it a smaller additive value. There is one thing you forgot however, the new bonuses are now multiplicative dmg mitigation however the penalties are still in the additive section in the equation. I don't think I need to explain why that's bad suffice to say please address this before the patch goes live, please make the penalties multiplicative as well rather than additive with base game mitigation.

Proof: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2145592706?t=00h27m05s (twitch will only keep this up 7 days)

This only matters in the sweaty of the sweatiest builds. hate to break it to you, but Zos caters to casuals, and pretty sure they will tell you that.

Just because it may not matter to you, doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter. We are all players of the game here, all our experiences matter. The community wouldn’t be where it is today if it weren’t for the sweats and the casuals. Besides, this affects every tank or even tanky players whether they’re aware of it or not. And if ZOS only cared about casuals, the game would be very different than it is now (ex. RG HM wouldn’t be so hard, LA weaving would be gone, there would be no one to influence game balance for the better like is Sparkrip trying to do here)…

Light attack weaving is gone...Just play arcanist. HM isn't for casuals? and never was intended to be. They put out enough content to keep ppl happy, but don't actually change anything. They think this game is like WoW and has a huge following with millions of subscribers. I doubt they have 100k subscribers.

This game is deffinetely going towards a casual PoV... Think about it. Pve is bland. Pvp is bland. But they always have tons of stories and easy delves and side quest to explore. You can live a lifetime in ESO casually playing..

If I applied myself and really wanted to sweat it up, Can get with my friends core team and get all HM's cleared in a few months.

PvP is a joke.

With that being said, My statement still stands, that zos is in their own little world. If I had to guess, the only reason they changing mitagation to begin with, is 1, there is a possible exploit. Or 2 they are creating something in the future, that will cause and exploit. (for example a set that buffs champion points or something).

I hope zos proves me wrong.

The reason they’re changing this is basically 1, Sparkrip managed to achieve 100% mitigation. You are right that ZOS seems to care a lot about casuals, but some of that is just POV speaking. Trial HMs are still balanced around the top players while overland content and dungeons get harder and we get less overland content a year. Wording it like that makes it seem ZOS cares more about endgamers. On the flip side, arcanist has low CPM, we got velothi’s amulet, all the talk about raising the floor… makes it seem like ZOS cares more about casuals. End of the day, whatever’s technically correct doesn’t matter as much as having a strong community that realizes ZOS is cutting into every aspect of the game. Which is why I’ve been defensive on here because I hope no one gets the wrong idea and thinks this mitigation issue isn’t important, encouraging ZOS to just shrug it off. This specific issue affects everyone in different capacities anyways.

FoJul

Soarora wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

FoJul wrote: »

Sparkrip wrote: »

So to preface this, I want to say a big kudos to the dev team for actually making hardy and preparation and crowd control multiplicative rather than doing what they did with lucent echoes and just making it a smaller additive value. There is one thing you forgot however, the new bonuses are now multiplicative dmg mitigation however the penalties are still in the additive section in the equation. I don't think I need to explain why that's bad suffice to say please address this before the patch goes live, please make the penalties multiplicative as well rather than additive with base game mitigation.

Proof: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2145592706?t=00h27m05s (twitch will only keep this up 7 days)

This only matters in the sweaty of the sweatiest builds. hate to break it to you, but Zos caters to casuals, and pretty sure they will tell you that.

Just because it may not matter to you, doesn’t mean it doesn’t matter. We are all players of the game here, all our experiences matter. The community wouldn’t be where it is today if it weren’t for the sweats and the casuals. Besides, this affects every tank or even tanky players whether they’re aware of it or not. And if ZOS only cared about casuals, the game would be very different than it is now (ex. RG HM wouldn’t be so hard, LA weaving would be gone, there would be no one to influence game balance for the better like is Sparkrip trying to do here)…

Light attack weaving is gone...Just play arcanist. HM isn't for casuals? and never was intended to be. They put out enough content to keep ppl happy, but don't actually change anything. They think this game is like WoW and has a huge following with millions of subscribers. I doubt they have 100k subscribers.

This game is deffinetely going towards a casual PoV... Think about it. Pve is bland. Pvp is bland. But they always have tons of stories and easy delves and side quest to explore. You can live a lifetime in ESO casually playing..

If I applied myself and really wanted to sweat it up, Can get with my friends core team and get all HM's cleared in a few months.

PvP is a joke.

With that being said, My statement still stands, that zos is in their own little world. If I had to guess, the only reason they changing mitagation to begin with, is 1, there is a possible exploit. Or 2 they are creating something in the future, that will cause and exploit. (for example a set that buffs champion points or something).

I hope zos proves me wrong.

The reason they’re changing this is basically 1, Sparkrip managed to achieve 100% mitigation. You are right that ZOS seems to care a lot about casuals, but some of that is just POV speaking. Trial HMs are still balanced around the top players while overland content and dungeons get harder and we get less overland content a year. Wording it like that makes it seem ZOS cares more about endgamers. On the flip side, arcanist has low CPM, we got velothi’s amulet, all the talk about raising the floor… makes it seem like ZOS cares more about casuals. End of the day, whatever’s technically correct doesn’t matter as much as having a strong community that realizes ZOS is cutting into every aspect of the game. Which is why I’ve been defensive on here because I hope no one gets the wrong idea and thinks this mitigation issue isn’t important, encouraging ZOS to just shrug it off. This specific issue affects everyone in different capacities anyways.

But ironically, I defend ESO too, just in a different manner. Trials/HMs and overland content always releases as really hard. But they get nerfed into the ground bc casuals can't achieve feats like that. I remember a time when Cradle of Shadows and Crypt of Hearts 2, and City of Ash 2, had to be progged like a trial. Now I can almost solo HM.

Sunspire was nerfed several times if i remember correctly.

Also, the community is not strong. Mainly, because there is no separation between PvE/and PvP. So what do you think 100% mitigation is gonna do to pvp?

We also have casuals in the forums that have played 20 hours trying to give insight and argue against people with an unhealthy amount of hours. The only "new" players I have seen. Are the players coming from console because console is dying.

I think they do care about all aspects of the game, but they are lost, with no sense of direction, mainly because Corporate is telling them they need to bring up profits 200%.