ZOS, Massive Spike in Ping/LAG in Recent Days - What Gives?

dk_dunkirk

Sluggy wrote: »

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dk_dunkirk wrote: »

I've been programming for 45 years, and I've been a full-stack developer for 30. Can someone tell me what a "server frame" is? The context seems to be networking- or load-related. But even with my background, I can't tell what this is referring to. Maybe it means the number of servers (frame/box/chassis) that need to be running to handle the load?

Yeah, it's the framerate of the actual gameplay simulation on the server side. Sometimes also called a tick or a heartbeat. Usually, singleplayer-only games that need to have very deterministic results are going to decouple their rendering from the actual game logic such that the game logic runs at a fixed rate of time per tick. This naturally extends to multiplayer games with a client and server, where there is no rendering on the server but there will be asynchronous housekeeping for processing incoming and outgoing batches of data. The gameplay simulation logic obviously isn't going to be tied to any of that but will run independently at it's own fixed rate of time.

The server frame time is something that has been mentioned in the past as something ZoS was looking in to. There were times where they saw spikes which obviously corresponded with massive lag and dropped inputs from the players as the server ended up having to ignore things in order to keep up in real time and avoid "the spiral of death". Curiously, there have also been times where they said that there were no apparent spikes in server frame time which means that it wasn't the server failing to keep the logic of the game itself running in real time - which likely points to either a problem in the aforementioned housekeeping portion of the game or some other networking infrastructure issue.

Aha! That makes sense. I've spent many hours looking for high-tick-rate CS and BF servers. Thank you!

KaironBlackbard

Sakiri wrote: »

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KaironBlackbard wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

Yes I can prove otherwise, go back thru this thread alone and look at the console players commenting on here. It's been said by ZOS the servers are different.
As far as the blinders, I've looked at your posts, you keep saying Bandits and your internet connection, even when others have explained about addons, you keep telling everybody it's Bandits.
There are multiple issues with what's going on, and the biggest problem was introduced earlier this year.
As far as repeating yourself, I think I've repeated myself a number of times about console having issues (both platforms, and they should be more consistent than PC since their hardware is more "uniform" on each platform than PC is)
I have messaged Hoft directly through ESOUI about this, and have made a comment on that addon page.
Again, I have ran with groups that don't use Bandits, ran with a mix, and ran with a full group of Bandits users...there's times we've had issues in every combination, including NO Bandits, then we've had absolutely no issues running with a mix of full Bandits users.
As an addon developer, I do know something about the addons, how they work, and what they can and can't do.
I have also posted on the BanditsUI page about not using Bandits for dps sharing or for notifications.
There are other addons that could potentially be causing issues, Bandits could be since it's not using LibMapPing, but my experience so far is it doesn't matter either way. I run trials in the "end game" community, doing vet HMs where you have a lot more going on, 12 players vs 4, etc. Trust me, there's a lot more visual things going on in HM trials, a lot more visuals from other players, a lot more data going on, if things are going to go wonky, that's where they will really show up. A lot of "end game" trial players reduce graphics settings, particles, distance, etc., to combat the issues of all the things going on in trials.

Your experience does not match mine.

I don't have any problems whatsoever unless someone is spam pinging my compass.
Every time, they are a BanditsUI user.
And I don't have any problems on Xbox at all.

You keep trying to claim it's not bandits, when clearly it is.
My problem lies with bandits.
It is not the consensus, but it is one of many problems.
It may not be your problem, but it definitely is mine.

And I have no control over who is using bandits.

Claim about console having issue have NO relevance to this specific issue of mine. They are different issues.

Spam... pinging... compass? The heck you on? My bandits isn't showing anything special on the compass?

That's because I DONT have Bandits, and others who do are gathering intel via the map ping backdoor as ZOS put it.
Another person said backchannel.
Doesn't matter. It's annoying and I have no power to stop it.

Quackery

Utterly, utterly, utterly, utterly, UTTERLY unplayable. 999+ ping spikes every 10-15 seconds on PC. Xbox is almost just as bad.

blktauna

Last night at highly off peak times for EU and NA on PC I had a lot of overland and delve stalls and load screens.

Quackery

Seems like I figured out what my problem as: bad ethernet cable. Playing via WiFi, and the game works perfectly. I recommend you guys to try it, or get a high speed ethernet cable.

LadyGP

Oof. It's really bad right now.

Quackery wrote: »

Seems like I figured out what my problem as: bad ethernet cable. Playing via WiFi, and the game works perfectly. I recommend you guys to try it, or get a high speed ethernet cable.

I'm wired. I make my own cables and my network is all WiFi6 rated gear. Wish it was as simple as swapping a cable.

Glad your issues are fixed for you though!!! Congrats.

Sakiri

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

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Sakiri wrote: »

KaironBlackbard wrote: »

sshogrin wrote: »

Yes I can prove otherwise, go back thru this thread alone and look at the console players commenting on here. It's been said by ZOS the servers are different.
As far as the blinders, I've looked at your posts, you keep saying Bandits and your internet connection, even when others have explained about addons, you keep telling everybody it's Bandits.
There are multiple issues with what's going on, and the biggest problem was introduced earlier this year.
As far as repeating yourself, I think I've repeated myself a number of times about console having issues (both platforms, and they should be more consistent than PC since their hardware is more "uniform" on each platform than PC is)
I have messaged Hoft directly through ESOUI about this, and have made a comment on that addon page.
Again, I have ran with groups that don't use Bandits, ran with a mix, and ran with a full group of Bandits users...there's times we've had issues in every combination, including NO Bandits, then we've had absolutely no issues running with a mix of full Bandits users.
As an addon developer, I do know something about the addons, how they work, and what they can and can't do.
I have also posted on the BanditsUI page about not using Bandits for dps sharing or for notifications.
There are other addons that could potentially be causing issues, Bandits could be since it's not using LibMapPing, but my experience so far is it doesn't matter either way. I run trials in the "end game" community, doing vet HMs where you have a lot more going on, 12 players vs 4, etc. Trust me, there's a lot more visual things going on in HM trials, a lot more visuals from other players, a lot more data going on, if things are going to go wonky, that's where they will really show up. A lot of "end game" trial players reduce graphics settings, particles, distance, etc., to combat the issues of all the things going on in trials.

Your experience does not match mine.

I don't have any problems whatsoever unless someone is spam pinging my compass.
Every time, they are a BanditsUI user.
And I don't have any problems on Xbox at all.

You keep trying to claim it's not bandits, when clearly it is.
My problem lies with bandits.
It is not the consensus, but it is one of many problems.
It may not be your problem, but it definitely is mine.

And I have no control over who is using bandits.

Claim about console having issue have NO relevance to this specific issue of mine. They are different issues.

Spam... pinging... compass? The heck you on? My bandits isn't showing anything special on the compass?

That's because I DONT have Bandits, and others who do are gathering intel via the map ping backdoor as ZOS put it.
Another person said backchannel.
Doesn't matter. It's annoying and I have no power to stop it.

I still have no idea what you're talking about.

Quackery

LadyGP wrote: »

Oof. It's really bad right now.

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Quackery wrote: »

Seems like I figured out what my problem as: bad ethernet cable. Playing via WiFi, and the game works perfectly. I recommend you guys to try it, or get a high speed ethernet cable.

I'm wired. I make my own cables and my network is all WiFi6 rated gear. Wish it was as simple as swapping a cable.

Glad your issues are fixed for you though!!! Congrats.

Thanks, I'm really happy right now to have solved the horrific problem.

LadyGP

Quackery

LadyGP wrote: »

Oh, great, crashed at Roe, and not able to log back in. Error 201 all the time... What is wrong with this game?!?

NotNi.ya

i finally dropped my last core and uninstalled today, ngl, it felt good

LadyGP

NotNi.ya wrote: »

i finally dropped my last core and uninstalled today, ngl, it felt good

I know the feeling.

Lyraen_Skyforge

The annual letter failed to adequately address what a huge issue server connection and lag has been for broad swaths of the player population.

Content cut back in previous years has yielded the current state of the game. Now they are going to cut back new content even further and the excuse is to continue with bug fixes and QoL improvements.

moderatelyfatman

RomanRex wrote: »

The annual letter failed to adequately address what a huge issue server connection and lag has been for broad swaths of the player population.

Content cut back in previous years has yielded the current state of the game. Now they are going to cut back new content even further and the excuse is to continue with bug fixes and QoL improvements.

Well, half the year was obviously not enough time to get performance fixed.

Aldoss

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

This is what I'm talking about with server lag:
https://youtu.be/2hFVrNOiI94?si=Q9wkNRcrVAGh6GpF

A couple things I want to draw attention to:

1. This is a 4v4 BG. The smallest instanced conflict that currently exists in ESO, on the smallest map in ESO
2. My ping is 84ms
3. My frames are above 60
4. I have "auto-cast ground target aoes" enabled in my settings

Here's the first three skills for a baseline:

00:00:00 - Ghostly Embrace triggered
00:00:42 - Animation end
00:01:05 - RAT triggered
00:01:56 - Animation end
00:02:09 - Mender triggered
00:02:48 - Animation end

But then we get to Boneyard:
00:08:55 - Boneyard triggered
00:09:00 - Placement circle appears
00:09:23 - Placement circle begins to pulse
00:09:30 - Last frame before I get stunned, placement circle still not complete
00:09:31 - I get stunned from streak and die, despite casting a skill that would have pulled and stunned the sorc before they pressed streak (from Dark Convergence)

It takes 28 frames for the server to register that I'm using a skill and would have taken another ~18 frames before it would even appear

The second clip in the video is to demonstrate a Boneyard cast just 30 seconds later. Here's what happens:
00:13:55 - Boneyard triggered
00:13:56 - Placement circle appears
00:13:57 - Placement circle pulses
00:14:22 - Boneyard appears

Literally 0 delay from the button press to the placement circle pulsing. The time between the button press and the skill appearing takes less frames than the first Boneyard placement circle to even start pulsing.

This has been happening a lot recently. When I expect Boneyard to register and bar swap, but the game lags, it cancels my Boneyard, which is extremely frustrating.

I'll repeat again: this lag is new this patch. It's baffling that this delay exists in the smallest skirmish, on the smallest map that ESO offers. Few things in this game are as infuriating as having to sit and wait while I watch my yellow circle taunt me as my HP bar chunks away.

Sakiri

Bf realized today that SE helper was causing him in game lag. Might partially be add-ons, but I don't think that's all of it.

edward_frigidhands

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

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LadyGP wrote: »

Yeah, things felt a bit better. I just ended a few hours of Cyro and with multiple ball groups going at it fighting for a scroll I only ran into a few spikes. The biggest thing is i stayed connected during those spikes and didn't crash like usual. I can handle the spikes.. just keep me connected.

Really curious if @ZOS_Kevin or anyone can chime in and say if something was changed - it sure felt like it. Fingers crossed this is a start for some improvement.

So we have adjusted some things to deal with malicious activity. That is the main stuff we have done as of recent. Like during the weekend when we had those disconnect issues on Saturday.

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ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone, we've been seeing a recent increase in malicious activity targeting our servers, so we have made adjustments on our end to address this threat. Because of this, you may experience decreased game performance while these adjustments are in place. Please note that this is not related to the datacenter power failure last week.

We will continue to monitor for any malicious activity, and thank you for your patience and understanding.

Are these adjustments still in place?

Server performance seems to be worse since they came back up.

LadyGP

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

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ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

LadyGP wrote: »

Yeah, things felt a bit better. I just ended a few hours of Cyro and with multiple ball groups going at it fighting for a scroll I only ran into a few spikes. The biggest thing is i stayed connected during those spikes and didn't crash like usual. I can handle the spikes.. just keep me connected.

Really curious if @ZOS_Kevin or anyone can chime in and say if something was changed - it sure felt like it. Fingers crossed this is a start for some improvement.

So we have adjusted some things to deal with malicious activity. That is the main stuff we have done as of recent. Like during the weekend when we had those disconnect issues on Saturday.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone, we've been seeing a recent increase in malicious activity targeting our servers, so we have made adjustments on our end to address this threat. Because of this, you may experience decreased game performance while these adjustments are in place. Please note that this is not related to the datacenter power failure last week.

We will continue to monitor for any malicious activity, and thank you for your patience and understanding.

Are these adjustments still in place?

Server performance seems to be worse since they came back up.

Came in here to ask this same question.

dcrush

PC NA. On two different accounts, during different times of the day, I get “lost lobby connection” when trying to load a character that’s in Vvardenfell. Other characters in different zones work fine.

Vulsahdaal

It seemed to be a bit better for last month or so, but for the last week the lag spikes are back. Along with rubberbanding and occasional disconnects.

I usually run IA for leaderboard on 2 of my characters each week, but gonna have to skip this week because its pretty bad. I only run 4 mods, 3 of which you can see at the top of the screen. I am not now, nor ever, running 'Bandits', and I dont believe any of Tho'ats minions are either (well, I guess you can never tell about the Fabled, but Ill give them the benefit of the doubt here ).

As for the time, you can see at the top right (bottom one is US eastern).

You can see problems start when fighting the guy at bottom of stairs, but at the end with the realmshaper and durzog it becomes more clear. And its not until the fight is completely over, then you can see at the bottom left what Ive really been fighting

Did it make a difference it outcome? No. But this is because its arc 1. Experience tells me, that this is my warning sign. By arc 5 and on, this will be completely unplayable, with lag spikes, freezing and rubberbanding all over the place.

So anyway, heres the video and time asked for -

https://youtu.be/zPlJnF4q3MI

LadyGP

Playing ESO in 2024 has felt like this for me.




* Figured we all could use a good laugh.

blktauna

Right now 15:36 EST PCEU I just get to Black Boot was kicked and can not log on. Constant booted from server error messages. Ravenwatch.

LadyGP

ugh

Quackery

I too am still suffering from it.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

I got kicked before again as well, this is gonna be a horrible new life event if I keep crashing every 5 minutes.

Erorah

LadyGP

This is really bad. Not sure if it's still because of the stuff @ZOS_Kevin was talking about or not.

LadyGP

silky_soft

I don't know what you guys just did in the recent patch. But whatever it was it's horrible for customers 240ms. If I get CC now I'm dead, even with scroll wheel spam. Especially with a knock back or a pull.

LadyGP

done for the night.