Oblivion damage & soul gem economy

MentalxHammer · May 5

As a few have already pointed out, ZOS needs to be really careful adding any sources of oblivion damage to the game. Balancing oblivion damage is just not easy and can quickly lead to toxic PvP metas.

The point of this post is to point out an oversight that supports not adding the oblivion damage spammable to the game, especially if it ties to using soul gems per cast.

Currently, everyone has an overstock of soul gems, so having a new way to use them is a fun idea; however, if this new spammable skill becomes meta, the supply of soul gems in the game will quickly drop and their value will skyrocket, do you see where I’m going here?

Imagine a possible eventuality that one of the best skills in the game is only available to those that have the gold to purchase a necessary stock of them. This would create a terrible environment where only very rich players have access to the strongest strategy.

I’m not trying to cry wolf and say this skill will be the best option for every class. I’m just pointing out that tying a skill to some form of economy could lead to unhealthy outcomes server-wide.

Also oblivion damage is broken so pls no.

xylena_lazarow · May 5

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Imagine a possible eventuality that one of the best skills in the game is only available to those that have the gold to purchase a necessary stock of them.

Like I said in the other thread, 100% promise that soul gems will NOT be what gatekeeps broke PvPers, gems are never going above 500g ea, a tiny tiny tiny fraction of the real gatekeepers like Columbine, Hakeijos, Perfect Roe, Dreugh Wax...

grzes848909 · May 5

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Imagine a possible eventuality that one of the best skills in the game is only available to those that have the gold to purchase a necessary stock of them.

Like I said in the other thread, 100% promise that soul gems will NOT be what gatekeeps broke PvPers, gems are never going above 500g ea, a tiny tiny tiny fraction of the real gatekeepers like Columbine, Hakeijos, Perfect Roe, Dreugh Wax...

What he said, also soul gems are easy to farm, if anything it would give new players a new solid way to get gold by farming soul gems using soul trap. But I do agree on oblivion damage, either: decrease dmg, increase cooldown or make it only do dmg when below 50% hp

MentalxHammer · May 5

grzes848909 wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

Imagine a possible eventuality that one of the best skills in the game is only available to those that have the gold to purchase a necessary stock of them.

Like I said in the other thread, 100% promise that soul gems will NOT be what gatekeeps broke PvPers, gems are never going above 500g ea, a tiny tiny tiny fraction of the real gatekeepers like Columbine, Hakeijos, Perfect Roe, Dreugh Wax...

What he said, also soul gems are easy to farm, if anything it would give new players a new solid way to get gold by farming soul gems using soul trap. But I do agree on oblivion damage, either: decrease dmg, increase cooldown or make it only do dmg when below 50% hp

Soul gems are certainly easy to come by, but if this skill becomes meta, it's easy to see the demand quickly exceeding the supply. Thus, prices will increase. Again I'm not trying to say this is issue is guaranteed, but something that the dev's need to be aware of for the health of the game.

TybaltKaine · May 5

You can buy soul gems from an NPC. They are effectively infinite.

MentalxHammer · May 5

TybaltKaine wrote: »

You can buy soul gems from an NPC. They are effectively infinite.

That is a very good point, which luckily addresses the inflation issue. Just to satisfy my curiosity, I checked how much I might spend on NPC soul gems per session, they cost 900 gold from the NPC merchants.

As a reference point for how long I'm in combat over a decent gaming session, I commonly use 400-600 potions. On the low end of that, I'm using 400 pots, chugging on cooldown. At that rate, I would be in combat for 400*45 = 18,000 seconds (5 hours) over a session. As a very conservative estimate, let's say I'm spending 1/3 of that time in combat on offensive rotations. That would mean 6,000 seconds attacking opponents daily. With the skill having a 3 second cooldown, that would mean ~2,000 casts of the soul gem spammable daily. The NPC soul gems cost 900 gold each, so, as a conservative estimate for a solid day PvPing, I could be spending 900*2,000 = 1,800,000 gold on soul gems daily. Obviously, this is a very rough estimate, but that seems unsustainable, especially for newer players.

Obviously, not every new player is spending 5 hours in combat PvPing every day. Even so, a conservative estimate of 360,000 gold for an hour of gameplay is not accessible. Keep in mind, that estimated cost is at only 6.66 casts of the spell per minute using the infinite, NPC-provided soul gems.

sarahthes · May 5

MentalxHammer wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

You can buy soul gems from an NPC. They are effectively infinite.

That is a very good point, which luckily addresses the inflation issue. Just to satisfy my curiosity, I checked how much I might spend on NPC soul gems per session, they cost 900 gold from the NPC merchants.

As a reference point for how long I'm in combat over a decent gaming session, I commonly use 400-600 potions. On the low end of that, I'm using 400 pots, chugging on cooldown. At that rate, I would be in combat for 400*45 = 18,000 seconds (5 hours) over a session. As a very conservative estimate, let's say I'm spending 1/3 of that time in combat on offensive rotations. That would mean 6,000 seconds attacking opponents daily. With the skill having a 3 second cooldown, that would mean ~2,000 casts of the soul gem spammable daily. The NPC soul gems cost 900 gold each, so, as a conservative estimate for a solid day PvPing, I could be spending 900*2,000 = 1,800,000 gold on soul gems daily. Obviously, this is a very rough estimate, but that seems unsustainable, especially for newer players.

Obviously, not every new player is spending 5 hours in combat PvPing every day. Even so, a conservative estimate of 360,000 gold for an hour of gameplay is not accessible. Keep in mind, that estimated cost is at only 6.66 casts of the spell per minute using the infinite, NPC-provided soul gems.

They're 500 gold from the merchants in trial lobbies, and 750 AP in cyrodiil.

EF321 · May 5

sarahthes wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

TybaltKaine wrote: »

You can buy soul gems from an NPC. They are effectively infinite.

That is a very good point, which luckily addresses the inflation issue. Just to satisfy my curiosity, I checked how much I might spend on NPC soul gems per session, they cost 900 gold from the NPC merchants.

As a reference point for how long I'm in combat over a decent gaming session, I commonly use 400-600 potions. On the low end of that, I'm using 400 pots, chugging on cooldown. At that rate, I would be in combat for 400*45 = 18,000 seconds (5 hours) over a session. As a very conservative estimate, let's say I'm spending 1/3 of that time in combat on offensive rotations. That would mean 6,000 seconds attacking opponents daily. With the skill having a 3 second cooldown, that would mean ~2,000 casts of the soul gem spammable daily. The NPC soul gems cost 900 gold each, so, as a conservative estimate for a solid day PvPing, I could be spending 900*2,000 = 1,800,000 gold on soul gems daily. Obviously, this is a very rough estimate, but that seems unsustainable, especially for newer players.

Obviously, not every new player is spending 5 hours in combat PvPing every day. Even so, a conservative estimate of 360,000 gold for an hour of gameplay is not accessible. Keep in mind, that estimated cost is at only 6.66 casts of the spell per minute using the infinite, NPC-provided soul gems.

They're 500 gold from the merchants in trial lobbies, and 750 AP in cyrodiil.

The ones for 500g are any Mystics, it is also available in Cyrodiil. Empty are 50g.

Lazarus_Rising · May 5

If you use Soul Splitting Trap on group of mobs you basically have filled 5 soul gems.

And like the upper comment stated. 50g a piece.

Stackings lots of soul gems and maintaining them should not be too hard for that look.

I secretly hope for a Lich Skilltree which also makes use of soul gems

xylena_lazarow · May 5

MentalxHammer wrote: »

it's easy to see the demand quickly exceeding the supply

yeah the npcs selling them for 500g ea might run out of stock /s

Tannus15 · May 6

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

MentalxHammer wrote: »

it's easy to see the demand quickly exceeding the supply

yeah the npcs selling them for 500g ea might run out of stock /s

I know people have a lot of gold in this game, but you're literally talking about 1k gold every 6 seconds.
10k a minute.

I dunno about you, but i'm not doing 2 hours of gameplay at 10k gold a minute + pots

That's a million gold, conservatively.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · May 6

In addition to the NPCs, they’re commonly used as lootable decoration.

dcam86b14_ESO · May 6

I have soul gems from 2014 I will gladly give them away

MentalxHammer · May 6

This conversation has lead me to believe that the cost of soul gems will likely not be an issue. As long as there is an affordable and infinite supply through NPC vendors, I think we're probably fine. This was something I admittedly hadn't considered; my main fear was a lack of supply and the resulting cost inflation.

Now, hopefully ZOS has their finger on the pulse regarding the balance of the oblivion damage script; which, in it's current state should probably be looked at.

robpr · May 6

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

If you use Soul Splitting Trap on group of mobs you basically have filled 5 soul gems.

And like the upper comment stated. 50g a piece.

Stackings lots of soul gems and maintaining them should not be too hard for that look.

I secretly hope for a Lich Skilltree which also makes use of soul gems

Soul Splitting Trap stacks with Oblivion's Edge (Vault of Mandness) so you get 2 filled gems from one mob.

Dracane · May 6

If this goes live as it does, then everyone should certainly carry a stack of Soul Gems (Empty) with them and the Soul Lock passive to fill them as you kill things.

It might make it to live to boost chapter sales, but it won't last for more than one update cycle anyway.

xylena_lazarow · May 6

Tannus15 wrote: »

I know people have a lot of gold in this game, but you're literally talking about 1k gold every 6 seconds. That's a million gold, conservatively.

my comrade in Cyrodiil, I will give you a stack of soul gems lol

(but ask me for Columbine or Hakeijo, the actual expensive gatekeepers, and I will laugh at you as I say no)

Jsmalls · May 6

People are dismissing this but as someone whose gone through literal thousands of soul gems just dueling for probably 1-2 hours on the PTS I'm definitely on board with the, this is a huge QoL issue and potential annoying gold sink.

I think 100g per soul gem will become a fair price.

200 stacks will become 20k. And you'll be using 100k worth of soul gems in a fair playtime in Open world PvP or dueling.

That'll add up pretty quick. And no only that but having to use 10-20 slots for 200 stacks of filled and empty soul gems is going to be annoying...

The soul gems have the potential to go faster than poisons and they have what a 1600 stack?

Necrotech_Master · May 6

Jsmalls wrote: »

People are dismissing this but as someone whose gone through literal thousands of soul gems just dueling for probably 1-2 hours on the PTS I'm definitely on board with the, this is a huge QoL issue and potential annoying gold sink.

I think 100g per soul gem will become a fair price.

200 stacks will become 20k. And you'll be using 100k worth of soul gems in a fair playtime in Open world PvP or dueling.

That'll add up pretty quick. And no only that but having to use 10-20 slots for 200 stacks of filled and empty soul gems is going to be annoying...

The soul gems have the potential to go faster than poisons and they have what a 1600 stack?

alchemical poisons i think stack to 1000

i would really like to see soul gems stack size increased, 1000 soul gems is like 5 individual stacks right now

the price for soul gems is kind of capped off by the price the NPCs sell them for, but its very possible that guild stores could see them go to about 10x what they are currently selling for (about 30-35g each, which is barely above what you get vendoring them to an NPC)

WhiteCoatSyndrome · May 6

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i would really like to see soul gems stack size increased, 1000 soul gems is like 5 individual stacks right now

As someone who has vendored them just to reclaim bank space, I concur with this statement.

sarahthes · May 6

Welp, I guess this isn't a concern anymore LOL

MentalxHammer · May 6

sarahthes wrote: »

Welp, I guess this isn't a concern anymore LOL

Yes, thank you to ZOS for listening to concerns and adjusting this accordingly.