Is it true!?

Pelanora

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Can't see much of modification.

A horse should look like this when "sprinting" (well, gallopping):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8ipxSRAUA

The space covered by one cycle is really large, watch how far forward the front legs of the horses go and how far back the hind legs...

Good horse!

Man if they fixed the horses, imagine. Have they done the mane as well? And the leg design?

Pelanora

SickleCider wrote: »

NoTimeToWait wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Can't see much of modification.

A horse should look like this when "sprinting" (well, gallopping):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8ipxSRAUA

The space covered by one cycle is really large, watch how far forward the front legs of the horses go and how far back the hind legs...

if you try to implement an accurate galloping animation for a horse, it would look not that great from the 3rd person camera at the back. Yeah, animators have it rough, since real life animations are not always completely applicable

I'm with the others, this needs expansion.

1. Bad in what way?
2. What about contrary examples?

Also, do you have personal experience with this? That one I'm just curious about.

There was a good one on a roblox game I played with my son, so- nope. It's doable. And you know, sims.

oldbobdude

I agree with most that ESO implementation is horrible. Witcher 3 did a pretty good job with gaits that feel right. ESO just makes the tiny legs go faster.

ZOS_Kevin

Hi All, just wanted to chime in on this. There was a change to the speed of mount animations in relation to the movement speed of the mount. Specifically, we have capped mount animation speeds at higher mount movement speeds, creating a smoother animation experience. Important to note, mount movement speed is not been impacted here. Just the animation speed itself.

We will add this note for launch day patch notes.

Credible_Joe

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, just wanted to chime in on this. There was a change to the speed of mount animations in relation to the movement speed of the mount. Specifically, we have capped mount animation speeds at higher mount movement speeds, creating a smoother animation experience. Important to note, mount movement speed is not been impacted here. Just the animation speed itself.

We will add this note for launch day patch notes.

Will heavyweights still have the awkward slow motion gallop if their minimum movement speed is too high? Or is the walk cycle enforced for walking vs. galloping?

s_mctoren

The mount animations' change is like one of the best things happening with U42. Was so happy to notice it the first day of PTS.

AntonShan

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, just wanted to chime in on this. There was a change to the speed of mount animations in relation to the movement speed of the mount. Specifically, we have capped mount animation speeds at higher mount movement speeds, creating a smoother animation experience. Important to note, mount movement speed is not been impacted here. Just the animation speed itself.

We will add this note for launch day patch notes.

Isn't this something that was on one of previous PTS cycles (the one that added pvp notifications IIRC) but didn't make it to live patch? I'm asking because I clearly remember my mount's running animation being slower on the PTS but then seeing no difference on live.

ArchangelIsraphel

twev wrote: »

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

twev wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

twev wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Can't see much of modification.

A horse should look like this when "sprinting" (well, gallopping):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8ipxSRAUA

The space covered by one cycle is really large, watch how far forward the front legs of the horses go and how far back the hind legs...

Probably more appropriate would be the way a draft horse runs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYDBi_YlAZw

Draft horses are super bulky, and not built for speed.
A faster horse doesn't 'just' increase the speed of it's gait, it increases the length of it's stride.
Horses in ESO just speed up the beat of the gait, without increasing the length of stride.
They ought to stretch out the stride more, without doubling the gait.

exactly. The type of horse you would take into battle or on an adventure that could have deadly encounters. The type of horse that can carry six sets of armor.

But we don't take horses into battle.
We abandon horses immediately upon entering combat.
Knights rode palfreys when not actually jousting, and jousting was basically the only mounted combat.
A joust was a single charge in a ceremonial charge during a 'game'.
Knights rarely rode horses in combat because the bulk of armour made them unable to protect the horse, and a wounded horse wound drop a knight on his back in the field, leaving him mostly unable to get back up to fight or defend himself.
Palfreys were gentler traveling horses.

"A Knight and His Horse(s) When a knight needed a faster horse that could change direction quickly in battle, he rode a courser. For everyday use, he rode a smaller, all-purpose rouncey."

Cavalry rode light fast horses IN combat, and all the rest of the time they were mounted for travel.

Mounted combat is basically a shock Cavalry attack where the riders blaze through a line of defenders.
A plodding draft horse would leave you in the midst of defenders attacking the knight from all sides while he could only slowly defend one directed attack at a time, again, leaving the horse unprotected.

The first thing you did to a mounted knight was incapacitate the horse, leaving the knight on foot at best, and with one leg trapped under the incapacitated horse at worst.

Reference The Battle of Agincourt, where the English wiped out the French mounted cavalry and knights with basically a peasant army of archers.

What is the source of your information regarding jousting being the only mounted combat? Because this is untrue. Lances were used in combat, on horseback. In fact, there were lances specifically made for warfare, and lances which were made for jousting.

Methods of fighting against mounted knights are discussed in books of the time, which have been preserved and can still be followed today by those who study history by actually training to do the things knights did in combat.

For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM6abbGll0s

ModernHistory TV, as well as many other well-informed youtube channels, frequently discuss mounted combat during the medieval period, as well as the training involved to prepare a horse for combat. While there were indeed complications involved with mounted combat, it happened, and it was not just ceremonial jousting.

Even the famous Bayeux tapestry, which is a historical record of warfare in Normandy and England, depicts men in mounted combat.

You're totally correct, I went off the rails using an in-congruent sentence from an incomplete thought.
I totally messed up the description.

As I said in another thread - corrections keep misinformation in check, Thanks for reading what I wrote more accurately than I did, and knowing where I went wrong.
An awesome for you.

But it needs to be expanded, that once the lance was broken, or lost in combat, the knight was left to close quarters combat on horse, which was difficult at best when fighting foot soldier with ranged weapons or pikes, as well as hordes of ordinary foot soldiers attacking from multiple directions.
Thats how the crusaders were decimated over time during the crusades.

The original rules of Chivalry expected knights to fight knights and anyone else they felt like attacking, but it was 'unthinkable' in their code that peasants and foot soldiers would be allowed to attack 'their betters', the nobles on horse.
It was generally considered to be illegal in 'civilized warfare' for non-nobles to attack nobles equipped as knights for a good bit of european history.
When the rules were broken - the knights were at a disadvantage.

Until gunpowder became used against attacking knights and later cavalry- tactics like 20-foot long pikes were used to break cavalry charges by knights by impaling horses, at which point the knights became lumbering combatants on foot.
Once a knight was on the ground - he was overpowered by masses, and generally overwhelmed.
The Swiss had few armoured knights, but they did exceedingly well against attacking knights using echelons of 20-foot pikes by pikemen using the pikes to take down the horses.

As I partially said earlier - cavalry charges were then used to shock with a frontal assault that would ride fast through an enemy line using speed over distance that knights couldn't match, (as well as flanking attacks to take the enemy from the sides and/or rear using speed) when pikes weren't used by defenders.
Especially true when flanking or attacking from the rear, when they were able to attack faster than the defenders were able to respond.
Heavily armoured knights were slower, and their horses carrying the weight had less stamina in reserve to accomplish the speed over distance.

And the tapestries were commissioned by the rich guys, who were generally nobles and in command of the knights, so it's little wonder they would glorify the noble's knights.
Not many common foot soldiers commissioned tapestries, and nobles had little need or use of glorifying the common foot soldier peasants besting knights.
The peasants were rarely recorded as being instrumental, since they had no station in life .

It's always pleasant to discuss history with those who have an interest in it, and moreover, those who are not upset by correction. An awesome for you, as well.

One of the things I found interesting about the youtube channel I linked was that he goes into an exploration of what knights might have done when disarmed, and how carrying additional weapons might have either helped or hindered them. The most important takeaway from reading about historical knights and horsemanship is definitely how difficult it was.

Games like ESO and movies tend to give us a romanticized view of armored knights. What they don't show us is how easily the knight could be killed by foot, or by elements like heat and cold. They tend to forget what an enormous strain wearing armor could be on the body of the rider, not to mention the horse. You are absolutely right.

What you say about tapestries is certainly true. The Bayeux tapestry is no exception, since it is thought to be commissioned by William the Conqueror's half brother. Interestingly enough, though, it depicts quite a few foot soldiers along with cavalrymen, armor preparation, blacksmithing, and even ways in which knights were killed by foot. While it's true that it was certainly propaganda for the glory of William the Conqueror, I think there's definitely value in studying the finer details of such artwork as grains of truth about life during that time period tend to shine through. (For example, there's some interesting documentaries on the types of weapons and shields depicted in the tapestry, how they were held on horseback, and if what was shown was a fantasy of what battle was like)

ZOS_Kevin

AntonShan wrote: »

Isn't this something that was on one of previous PTS cycles (the one that added pvp notifications IIRC) but didn't make it to live patch? I'm asking because I clearly remember my mount's running animation being slower on the PTS but then seeing no difference on live.

Honestly, can't recall. I'll have to go back to some older patch notes to check. Just to clarify, the cap to the animation speed is the change here. So it's possible adjusting the animation was added previously and now we are capping the animation at the high end of movement speed to avoid instances where mount animations move super fast.

ZOS_Kevin

Credible_Joe wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, just wanted to chime in on this. There was a change to the speed of mount animations in relation to the movement speed of the mount. Specifically, we have capped mount animation speeds at higher mount movement speeds, creating a smoother animation experience. Important to note, mount movement speed is not been impacted here. Just the animation speed itself.

We will add this note for launch day patch notes.

Will heavyweights still have the awkward slow motion gallop if their minimum movement speed is too high? Or is the walk cycle enforced for walking vs. galloping?

That's a good question. We'll pass this along and see if we can get an answer.

Scaletho

AnduinTryggva wrote: »

Can't see much of modification.

A horse should look like this when "sprinting" (well, gallopping):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6U8ipxSRAUA

The space covered by one cycle is really large, watch how far forward the front legs of the horses go and how far back the hind legs...

I won! I won the sweepstake! What a run!

Dracane

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, just wanted to chime in on this. There was a change to the speed of mount animations in relation to the movement speed of the mount. Specifically, we have capped mount animation speeds at higher mount movement speeds, creating a smoother animation experience. Important to note, mount movement speed is not been impacted here. Just the animation speed itself.

We will add this note for launch day patch notes.

I just checked it out on the PTS and it's immensly noticeable. It looks very good, especially for horses and tigers.
I always wondered if you have the ability to make such a change, and here we are.

twev

Dracane wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, just wanted to chime in on this. There was a change to the speed of mount animations in relation to the movement speed of the mount. Specifically, we have capped mount animation speeds at higher mount movement speeds, creating a smoother animation experience. Important to note, mount movement speed is not been impacted here. Just the animation speed itself.

We will add this note for launch day patch notes.

I just checked it out on the PTS and it's immensly noticeable. It looks very good, especially for horses and tigers.
I always wondered if you have the ability to make such a change, and here we are.

Horses and tigers are where it's at.
I hope good models are implemented.

SickleCider

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, just wanted to chime in on this. There was a change to the speed of mount animations in relation to the movement speed of the mount. Specifically, we have capped mount animation speeds at higher mount movement speeds, creating a smoother animation experience. Important to note, mount movement speed is not been impacted here. Just the animation speed itself.

We will add this note for launch day patch notes.

Kevin, this is a Christmas miracle and you are Santa Claus! On behalf of the Blackfeather Court, I award you this shiny! 🪙✨ (You have to figure out how to share it with the dev team working on this.)

Runesong

This will certainly help the performance of the game.

Pelanora

I didn't see anything in the patch notes, and it was hard to tell with the animations, that is was smoother- it's still not achieved horse-like because the stride is too short.....but riding the horse up steps in skingrad is hysterical, it pitches like a boat.

WiseSky

The bag left leg of Horses and Rams still is Twitching :(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq8xj_as78g

Credible_Joe

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Credible_Joe wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, just wanted to chime in on this. There was a change to the speed of mount animations in relation to the movement speed of the mount. Specifically, we have capped mount animation speeds at higher mount movement speeds, creating a smoother animation experience. Important to note, mount movement speed is not been impacted here. Just the animation speed itself.

We will add this note for launch day patch notes.

Will heavyweights still have the awkward slow motion gallop if their minimum movement speed is too high? Or is the walk cycle enforced for walking vs. galloping?

That's a good question. We'll pass this along and see if we can get an answer.

Unfortunately, the issue was not resolved with this adjustment. I've experienced this both mounted and unmounted at walk speed with lots of speed buffs active; I think it even happens if you optimize movement speed with just champion points.

Not a huge issue; it doesn't affect gameplay at all. But if the team is adjusting visuals, maybe this can go on the list as well.

fred4

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, just wanted to chime in on this. There was a change to the speed of mount animations in relation to the movement speed of the mount. Specifically, we have capped mount animation speeds at higher mount movement speeds, creating a smoother animation experience. Important to note, mount movement speed is not been impacted here. Just the animation speed itself.

We will add this note for launch day patch notes.

Now there is no visual / audible feedback to tell you that you are actually sprinting and not out of stamina or something else is wrong, such as lag. This is functionally a step back. Please revert.

Wolf_Eye

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Hi All, just wanted to chime in on this. There was a change to the speed of mount animations in relation to the movement speed of the mount. Specifically, we have capped mount animation speeds at higher mount movement speeds, creating a smoother animation experience. Important to note, mount movement speed is not been impacted here. Just the animation speed itself.

We will add this note for launch day patch notes.

Thank you. The horse running looks so much better, and the sound of it actually sounds like a horse running even when at max speed. This is amazing, and I wanted to take a moment to thank you all for doing this. I love horses, and they're even better than ever with this change.

Before, I had kept my main and a few other special alts at only 40 mount speed, for roleplaying purposes, because the max horse speed looked a little silly (and the sound of it at max speed was not good either). Now I might start training their mount speed again.

Pelanora

It looks a LITTLE bit better. There's a way to go before it's so much better. Fix the stride length..... and the legs and the manes..... and the gait when going up steps....

SpiritofESO

SickleCider

I'm on PS5 so I just got the update. I want to express my appreciation for this fix. It's definitely a step in the right direction. Riding my horse was immediately much more pleasant. 🧡