Blood Magic passive rework necessitates Hardened Ward rework

StaticWave

This single change massively buffs Sorc healing. At 30k HP, Blood Magic has a 3k tooltip in NO CP. Everytime you cast Dark Deal/Conversion, Vibrant Shroud, Crystal Weapon/Frag, you activate that heal. You don't even need to be offensive. For example:

- Casting Dark Deal will now give you 8k + 3k = 11k burst heal
- Casting Dark Conversion will now give you 10k + 3k = 13k burst heal
- Casting Vibrant Shroud will now give you 10k + 3k = 13k burst heal

Dark Deal/Conversion has a caveat being that you can be interrupted, but if you cast it while CC immune and under a shield, you're going to get a massive heal back. Vibrant Shroud now has competitive healing. With a combined 13k tooltip, it's very comparable to single target heals like Healthy Offering and HoTD, but better because it's also fully AoE and applies Major Maim and Minor Vitality:







So a single rework to this passive makes Sorc healing comparable to other classes. What are we going to do about Hardened Ward? This skill is overperforming on the live server. Imagine magsorc next patch. Not only do they have a 13-14k shield with a 7-8k burst heal, but everytime they cast Dark Conversion they're going to get another 13k burst heal underneath.

Please consider removing the burst heal from Hardened Ward for the game's balance and giving it a HoT instead.

gariondavey

hardened ward should apply a hot, not a burst heal. this change to blood magic is fine as long as ward is altered a bit.

TheGodlyImage

are you talking about pve or pvp? pve seems fine o.0


and the numbers you're using are not accurate for pvp at all

StaticWave

Sample build of a Dizzy HP Warden with Polar Wind in NO-CP



13.9k Polar Wind burst heal with a 3.4k HoT every 2s. Costs 4.5k mag and can only heal 1 other ally.

Now I switch class to Sorc and use the same build, also in NO-CP:



10.7k heal with Major Maim and Minor Vitality. Costs 4.8k and is fully AoE.

Now add Blood Magic passive:



4.1k tooltip. Combined with Vibrant Shroud, you personally get 10.7k + 4.1k = 14.8k heal.

Apart from Warden having better AoE burst, Sorc on PTS is comparable to Warden in terms of tankiness.

StaticWave

TheGodlyImage wrote: »

are you talking about pve or pvp? pve seems fine o.0


and the numbers you're using are not accurate for pvp at all

PvP, and the numbers were done in PvP builds.

Aces-High-82

Please apply Battlespirit to those numbers.

StaticWave

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Please apply Battlespirit to those numbers.

And why would that matter? We're comparing heal tooltips between skills lol

SkaraMinoc

StaticWave wrote: »

So a single rework to this passive makes Sorc healing comparable to other classes.

This is ballpark accurate when using Vibrant Shroud as a self-heal.

Vibrant Shroud (1.22023) is 33% less coefficient than the standard healing spammable (1.62698).
Vibrant Shroud = ~6000 heal in PvP without any major buffs or +healing %

30k health = 1350 Blood Magic heal in PvP (1350 / 6000 = 22.5%)
40k health = 1800 Blood Magic heal in PvP (1800 / 6000 = 30%)

There's too many variables like wd/sd, % healing, defile, etc but you can say that the buff to Blood Magic makes Vibrant Shroud similar or sometimes slightly less than other class self-heals.

The change to Blood Magic passive seems fine.

Hardened ward still overperforming when at 50-60k max magicka.

StaticWave

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

There's too many variables like wd/sd, % healing, defile, etc but you can say that the buff to Blood Magic makes Vibrant Shroud similar or sometimes slightly less than other class self-heals.

The change to Blood Magic passive seems fine.

Hardened ward still overperforming when at 50-60k max magicka.

Vibrant Shroud should be similar for self healing and better for AoE healing.

The change to Blood Magic seems fine, but Ward is overtuned and this will make Sorc even tankier than it already is on the live server.

SkaraMinoc

Also, they need to make Blood Magic passive only work when the cast succeeds. Otherwise, players can just block interrupt or use the addon keybind to stop casting Dark Deal to spam Blood Magic. Not sure if it still works, but you used to be able to spam Crystal Fragments like 3-4x a second or more to get the proc to activate without actually casting the full 1 second Crystal Fragment. You'd be able to spam Blood Magic like 3-4x a second to get a 4-6k/s healing from Blood Magic.

StaticWave

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Please apply Battlespirit to those numbers.

This comment is exactly what's wrong with the forums. People are so clueless lol.

All the heal ability tooltips in my orgininal comment were not under Battle Spirit. Applying Battle Spirit would just reduce all of their tooltips by 55%

Before Battle Spirit:
Healthy Offering - 13.3k
Honor of The Dead - 13.3k
Vibrant Shroud + Blood Magic - 13.4k

After Battle Spirit:
Healthy Offering - 6k
Honor of The Dead - 6k
Vibrant Shroud + Blood Magic - 6k

It's literally irrelevant to the discussion whether Battle Spirit is active or not. We're comparing tooltips strength and secondary effects lol.

Skolandrikeb17_ESO

You apply Battle Spirit to compare tooltip numbers to character health to assess impact. Or at least specify explicitly that numbers don't include Battle Spirit adjustment

StaticWave

Skolandrikeb17_ESO wrote: »

You apply Battle Spirit to compare tooltip numbers to character health to assess impact. Or at least specify explicitly that numbers don't include Battle Spirit adjustment

Again, it doesn't matter. If you looked at the screenshots of the tooltips, you can see these values:

Vibrant Shroud - 10.3k
Blood Magic - 3.1k
Healthy Offering - 13.3k
Honor of The Dead - 13.3k

That's a clear indicator that none of the skills were affected by Battle Spirit. Adding Battle Spirit would just cut all healing values by 55%. It's irrelevant to the comparison.

Turtle_Bot

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Also, they need to make Blood Magic passive only work when the cast succeeds. Otherwise, players can just block interrupt or use the addon keybind to stop casting Dark Deal to spam Blood Magic. Not sure if it still works, but you used to be able to spam Crystal Fragments like 3-4x a second or more to get the proc to activate without actually casting the full 1 second Crystal Fragment. You'd be able to spam Blood Magic like 3-4x a second to get a 4-6k/s healing from Blood Magic.

blood magic has a 0.5s cooldown, so at most you will get 2 procs per second of the passive (assuming that cast cancel trick still works and a player doing this can consistently get the exact timing of it perfectly every single time).

it would have to be tested, but if it works that is 3-4k hps (1.5x2 to 2x2) instead of 4-6k hps. Again, assuming that this interaction works at all and doesn't just proc the GCD when you cancel the first cast.

Turtle_Bot

Make hardened wards burst heal into a HoT. Have it scale off weapon/spell damage instead of max stats so its a choice of big heal over time or big ward, not both.

Problem solved, now for:
- lightning splash (actual damage over time tooltip buffs here)
- lightning form (fix this mechanically, it's an AoE DoT on caster, not a sticky DoT on target, let it hit melee enemies and tick at the AoE tickrate)
- bound armor (hybridize this, major prophecy/savagery instead of max stats)
- curse (nerf prey bonus pet damage by ~half, give haunting breach)
- daedric protection (add mag recovery)
- capacitor (change this completely to interact with concussed in some way)

MashmalloMan

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Also, they need to make Blood Magic passive only work when the cast succeeds. Otherwise, players can just block interrupt or use the addon keybind to stop casting Dark Deal to spam Blood Magic. Not sure if it still works, but you used to be able to spam Crystal Fragments like 3-4x a second or more to get the proc to activate without actually casting the full 1 second Crystal Fragment. You'd be able to spam Blood Magic like 3-4x a second to get a 4-6k/s healing from Blood Magic.

blood magic has a 0.5s cooldown, so at most you will get 2 procs per second of the passive (assuming that cast cancel trick still works and a player doing this can consistently get the exact timing of it perfectly every single time).

it would have to be tested, but if it works that is 3-4k hps (1.5x2 to 2x2) instead of 4-6k hps. Again, assuming that this interaction works at all and doesn't just proc the GCD when you cancel the first cast.

I highly doubt Blood Magic procs from initiating, but not completing the cast of Dark Deal because minor prophecy, minor force, minor berserk, etc only apply if the cast completes. If it does work, then it's an obvious exploit I can't imagine ever making it to live.

Jsmalls

@StaticWave

I wouldn't trust that calculator for much. At least my experiences with it have been very inaccurate versus the actual game values.

Currently locked out of my account for being on the PTS but will gladly check out the actual values once I'm back in.

But because Blood Magic scales with health and Vibrant Shroud scales with stats/spell damage I don't think you'll get to the values of burst heals of other classes. Like @SkaraMinoc said the multiplier for this skill is lower and I don't think Blood Magic will be making up for that (can blood magic crit? I'm under the impression it cannot but I've never delved into blood magic healing like you would have on Stam Sorc).

That being said that skill is a bit overloaded with what it can do now....

AoE Burst heal (that procs Blood Magic for the user) that targets (is there a limit to how many people it can heal?)
Minor Vitality
Major Maim

As far as your comments on using it in conjunction with Ward.

Bar space is definitely an issue for this. Unless scribing replaces Magelight with a usable skill. And it's really hard to drop Bound Aegis with everything it offers. I'm using Crushing weapon for breach but choose to run hurricane because I like the ability, and my abilities are pretty set in stone (unless I run Chudan).

But what are you giving up for shrouded. You'd have two "burst" heals if you use both ward and shrouded which doesn't make much sense. What I would like to see is the option to use shrouded as a spell damage burst heal setup to replace the magicka stacking setups hardened ward influences.

HuanShai

Actually just have sorcs and NBs on PVP, pls nerf it.

Turtle_Bot

Jsmalls wrote: »

@StaticWave

AoE Burst heal (that procs Blood Magic for the user) that targets (is there a limit to how many people it can heal?)
Minor Vitality
Major Maim

As far as your comments on using it in conjunction with Ward.

Bar space is definitely an issue for this. Unless scribing replaces Magelight with a usable skill. And it's really hard to drop Bound Aegis with everything it offers. I'm using Crushing weapon for breach but choose to run hurricane because I like the ability, and my abilities are pretty set in stone (unless I run Chudan).

But what are you giving up for shrouded. You'd have two "burst" heals if you use both ward and shrouded which doesn't make much sense. What I would like to see is the option to use shrouded as a spell damage burst heal setup to replace the magicka stacking setups hardened ward influences.

As far as I can tell it doesn't have a limit for how many it can heal



(screenshot is PvE tooltip at 5k weapon damage + 30k mag with 38k health, it's for farming IA)

It is still slightly below matriarchs heal (~5%) when the blood magic heal is added to it, so it will definitely be a strong self heal when combined with the updated blood magic passive, but that's about it.

Even with the heal from blood magic included, it is not looking anywhere near as strong as ward (tooltips sitting about 40% behind ward), so I am not worried about it being broken even with the proposed blood magic passive change and it having minor vitality + major maim.
Also, as you said, finding room for it on the bar is very difficult, especially if you want to fit hurricane (or boundless) to free up the monster set slot, so one of those scribing abilities is really going to have to have an insane combination of effects/synergies with sorcs kit that also includes major prophecy/savagery to make it worth slotting over inner light + another ability to free that slot up for shroud.
Another factor is that shroud is an AoE heal where all of sorcs other heals are single target so it won't get percent buffs from CP if the sorc invests in those since the single target will provide more healing when factored across crit surge, blood magic, dark exchange, ward, vigor, etc. (even matriarch is ST).

What I see likely happening is shroud will be an option for 30-35k health damage proc-sorc builds over dark exchange if the player feels they have enough sustain already to not need exchange or really hate the cast time or maybe want some group utility, but ward/exchange will still be the go to burst heals over it with most who opt for either morph going for spines instead for the AoE delayed burst and immobilization to combine with streak stun + curse for a delayed burst combo.

StaticWave

Jsmalls wrote: »

@StaticWave

I wouldn't trust that calculator for much. At least my experiences with it have been very inaccurate versus the actual game values.

Currently locked out of my account for being on the PTS but will gladly check out the actual values once I'm back in.

But because Blood Magic scales with health and Vibrant Shroud scales with stats/spell damage I don't think you'll get to the values of burst heals of other classes. Like @SkaraMinoc said the multiplier for this skill is lower and I don't think Blood Magic will be making up for that (can blood magic crit? I'm under the impression it cannot but I've never delved into blood magic healing like you would have on Stam Sorc).

That being said that skill is a bit overloaded with what it can do now....

AoE Burst heal (that procs Blood Magic for the user) that targets (is there a limit to how many people it can heal?)
Minor Vitality
Major Maim

As far as your comments on using it in conjunction with Ward.

Bar space is definitely an issue for this. Unless scribing replaces Magelight with a usable skill. And it's really hard to drop Bound Aegis with everything it offers. I'm using Crushing weapon for breach but choose to run hurricane because I like the ability, and my abilities are pretty set in stone (unless I run Chudan).

But what are you giving up for shrouded. You'd have two "burst" heals if you use both ward and shrouded which doesn't make much sense. What I would like to see is the option to use shrouded as a spell damage burst heal setup to replace the magicka stacking setups hardened ward influences.

1) The calculator is pretty accurate. I’ve made hundreds of builds on the live server using the calculator.

2) Blood Magic can crit

3) A 40k HP build can definitely reach 16k combined tooltips with Blood Magic and Vibrant Shroud

4) This isn’t about magsorc stacking both Ward and Vibrant Shroud. It’s about Sorc getting a decent burst heal now with this change. You can use Dark Conversion + Blood Magic underneath the shield and get a decent burst heal.

You’re out of your element here, @Jsmalls . As a stamsorc main, I’ve been making many builds that don’t require stacking max mag. Stacking 40k HP and getting 7k+ WD with 23k+ stam is not that difficult, and yields 11k+ Vibrant Shroud tooltip and 4.5k+ Blood Magic tooltip. The calculator has been 99% accurate for me. You should test it on the live server to see for yourself.

StaticWave

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@StaticWave

AoE Burst heal (that procs Blood Magic for the user) that targets (is there a limit to how many people it can heal?)
Minor Vitality
Major Maim

As far as your comments on using it in conjunction with Ward.

Bar space is definitely an issue for this. Unless scribing replaces Magelight with a usable skill. And it's really hard to drop Bound Aegis with everything it offers. I'm using Crushing weapon for breach but choose to run hurricane because I like the ability, and my abilities are pretty set in stone (unless I run Chudan).

But what are you giving up for shrouded. You'd have two "burst" heals if you use both ward and shrouded which doesn't make much sense. What I would like to see is the option to use shrouded as a spell damage burst heal setup to replace the magicka stacking setups hardened ward influences.

As far as I can tell it doesn't have a limit for how many it can heal



(screenshot is PvE tooltip at 5k weapon damage + 30k mag with 38k health, it's for farming IA)

It is still slightly below matriarchs heal (~5%) when the blood magic heal is added to it, so it will definitely be a strong self heal when combined with the updated blood magic passive, but that's about it.

Even with the heal from blood magic included, it is not looking anywhere near as strong as ward (tooltips sitting about 40% behind ward), so I am not worried about it being broken even with the proposed blood magic passive change and it having minor vitality + major maim.
Also, as you said, finding room for it on the bar is very difficult, especially if you want to fit hurricane (or boundless) to free up the monster set slot, so one of those scribing abilities is really going to have to have an insane combination of effects/synergies with sorcs kit that also includes major prophecy/savagery to make it worth slotting over inner light + another ability to free that slot up for shroud.
Another factor is that shroud is an AoE heal where all of sorcs other heals are single target so it won't get percent buffs from CP if the sorc invests in those since the single target will provide more healing when factored across crit surge, blood magic, dark exchange, ward, vigor, etc. (even matriarch is ST).

What I see likely happening is shroud will be an option for 30-35k health damage proc-sorc builds over dark exchange if the player feels they have enough sustain already to not need exchange or really hate the cast time or maybe want some group utility, but ward/exchange will still be the go to burst heals over it with most who opt for either morph going for spines instead for the AoE delayed burst and immobilization to combine with streak stun + curse for a delayed burst combo.

The point of this thread is Blood Magic rework allows for Sorc to use Dark Conversion and potentially get a 7k non crit burst heal with Battle Spirit.

Combined with Vigor, Sorc should have plenty of survivability. There is no need to have this buff AND current Ward. It would make Sorc too strong. Even if you don’t hit enemies with Cfrag, you will still get a heal from using it. In practice this buff is massive.

StaticWave

@Jsmalls

This is a screenshot of my healing on a 41k HP shield Sorc. You can also check the build here too since I made a build video on Youtube:

https://youtu.be/6Zfo3sTDrUE?si=SkiVfdxNY9Xcw9XX

Ignore the shield, but look at Blood Magic’s max tooltip:



My max crit for it was almost 3.9k in CP. In this setup I also have almost 5.3k WD and 32k stam fully buffed.

Check Dark Deal’s max value. My tooltip for it is 9k, and it critted for 7.4k. In this build, Vibrant Shroud tooltip will be about 10.5k, which under Battle Spirit will crit for 8.5k.

So combine 8.5k Vibrant Shroud with 3.8k Blood Magic and I will have a maximum of 12.3k crit heal. That’s fair, considering I have 41k HP lol.

I used the calculator to make my build and it’s 99% accurate. You should test it for yourself

Jsmalls

@StaticWave

1) The couple times I've used the Calculator for Ward values its never been right, but since you've used it more than I have I'll take you're word on that.

2) Good to know, thanks

3) As a one class player I have to verify but I've been told that Healthy Offering can easily Tooltip above 20k. 16k would be 20% weaker. Need to confirm myself.

4) Definitely out of my element, but I'm pretty good at live testing, so will gladly verify your statements once my account is unlocked.

The values that @Turtle_Bot gave being 5% below Matriarch with pretty subpar stats (5k weapon damage and 30k Magicka is very low but I recognize that build wasn't intended for much) makes me believe you'll be closer to 10-15% lower with a full setup with say 7k damage and 35k Magicka (still have the 10% buff in our favor).

Back to not slotting both Shroud and Ward. I continue to agree Ward is Overtuned. But if we're speaking on running Shroud instead of Ward (I like the concept because it offers more group utility) then why try to GUT ward? It needs to be tuned, but Ward was not in a great place in U40 (that's the patch before the ward buff right?) To say Ward needs to be reverted because there is a burst heal to slot INSTEAD of Ward is just limiting play styles.

Id also like to point out that we really don't need more viable 40k health builds in this game. I recognize you're a great player, but 40k health setups raise the skill floor just as much as the current ward does.

Aces-High-82

StaticWave wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Please apply Battlespirit to those numbers.

This comment is exactly what's wrong with the forums. People are so clueless lol.

All the heal ability tooltips in my orgininal comment were not under Battle Spirit. Applying Battle Spirit would just reduce all of their tooltips by 55%

Before Battle Spirit:
Healthy Offering - 13.3k
Honor of The Dead - 13.3k
Vibrant Shroud + Blood Magic - 13.4k

After Battle Spirit:
Healthy Offering - 6k
Honor of The Dead - 6k
Vibrant Shroud + Blood Magic - 6k

It's literally irrelevant to the discussion whether Battle Spirit is active or not. We're comparing tooltips strength and secondary effects lol.

Geez dude, I just asked to do a simple math..
.....about the clueless part I'd like to remind you that you've been the one who wasn't aware ele sus status effect application happened periodically. LOL

StaticWave

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Aces-High-82 wrote: »

Please apply Battlespirit to those numbers.

This comment is exactly what's wrong with the forums. People are so clueless lol.

All the heal ability tooltips in my orgininal comment were not under Battle Spirit. Applying Battle Spirit would just reduce all of their tooltips by 55%

Before Battle Spirit:
Healthy Offering - 13.3k
Honor of The Dead - 13.3k
Vibrant Shroud + Blood Magic - 13.4k

After Battle Spirit:
Healthy Offering - 6k
Honor of The Dead - 6k
Vibrant Shroud + Blood Magic - 6k

It's literally irrelevant to the discussion whether Battle Spirit is active or not. We're comparing tooltips strength and secondary effects lol.

Geez dude, I just asked to do a simple math..
.....about the clueless part I'd like to remind you that you've been the one who wasn't aware ele sus status effect application happened periodically. LOL

1) You could have done it yourself lol. Did you know Battle Spirit doesn’t halve the value on tooltip? That’s because it’s healing received, and healing received doesn’t show up on tooltip. It’s the same reason why Major Vitality doesn’t increase your tooltip but your healing value increases in combat.


2) I was taking a break from the game for half a year and didn’t read the notes. Just needed some catch up to do. Everyone takes breaks at some point

StaticWave

Jsmalls wrote: »

@StaticWave

1) The couple times I've used the Calculator for Ward values its never been right, but since you've used it more than I have I'll take you're word on that.

2) Good to know, thanks

3) As a one class player I have to verify but I've been told that Healthy Offering can easily Tooltip above 20k. 16k would be 20% weaker. Need to confirm myself.

4) Definitely out of my element, but I'm pretty good at live testing, so will gladly verify your statements once my account is unlocked.

The values that @Turtle_Bot gave being 5% below Matriarch with pretty subpar stats (5k weapon damage and 30k Magicka is very low but I recognize that build wasn't intended for much) makes me believe you'll be closer to 10-15% lower with a full setup with say 7k damage and 35k Magicka (still have the 10% buff in our favor).

Back to not slotting both Shroud and Ward. I continue to agree Ward is Overtuned. But if we're speaking on running Shroud instead of Ward (I like the concept because it offers more group utility) then why try to GUT ward? It needs to be tuned, but Ward was not in a great place in U40 (that's the patch before the ward buff right?) To say Ward needs to be reverted because there is a burst heal to slot INSTEAD of Ward is just limiting play styles.

Id also like to point out that we really don't need more viable 40k health builds in this game. I recognize you're a great player, but 40k health setups raise the skill floor just as much as the current ward does.

@Jsmalls
1) There are a few bugs on the Editor and Ward is one of them unfortunately. Most of the Editor is correct though.

3) I think those 18k-20k Healthy Offering tooltips are inflated by being near a keep and/or stacking Major + Minor Mending.

I agree Ward needs to be tuned down. The burst heal could be turned into a Hot, which was my original suggestion in the other thread I made. I’m sure @Turtle_Bot agrees too. Blood Magic buff + Ward giving a HoT should still provide plenty of healing while not removing the trade-off of using a shield.

Jsmalls

@StaticWave

Agreed I have no issues with it being changed to a HoT, I'd just edit your opening post:

"Please consider removing the burst heal from Hardened Ward for the game's balance."

To something that reflects that as well.

And if we could only get Ward into a better place and lower the skill floor again then maybe we can go after those 40k Health Sorcs too

Turtle_Bot

Jsmalls wrote: »

@StaticWave

1) The couple times I've used the Calculator for Ward values its never been right, but since you've used it more than I have I'll take you're word on that.

2) Good to know, thanks

3) As a one class player I have to verify but I've been told that Healthy Offering can easily Tooltip above 20k. 16k would be 20% weaker. Need to confirm myself.

4) Definitely out of my element, but I'm pretty good at live testing, so will gladly verify your statements once my account is unlocked.

The values that @Turtle_Bot gave being 5% below Matriarch with pretty subpar stats (5k weapon damage and 30k Magicka is very low but I recognize that build wasn't intended for much) makes me believe you'll be closer to 10-15% lower with a full setup with say 7k damage and 35k Magicka (still have the 10% buff in our favor).

Back to not slotting both Shroud and Ward. I continue to agree Ward is Overtuned. But if we're speaking on running Shroud instead of Ward (I like the concept because it offers more group utility) then why try to GUT ward? It needs to be tuned, but Ward was not in a great place in U40 (that's the patch before the ward buff right?) To say Ward needs to be reverted because there is a burst heal to slot INSTEAD of Ward is just limiting play styles.

Id also like to point out that we really don't need more viable 40k health builds in this game. I recognize you're a great player, but 40k health setups raise the skill floor just as much as the current ward does.

So, I plugged a build into build editor, 7.4k spell damage, 39k health, 20k mag, and fully buffed (with continuous + near a keep), vibrant shroud is 7.1k (14.2 tooltip) and blood magic is 2.3k (4.7k tooltip), that's 9.4k total healing (to self) at over 5k magicka per cast. Matriarch on that same build is 9.5k heal, (19k tooltip) on its own at only 4.6k per cast. Ward has a 9k shield and 3.6k heal (12.6k total) at 4.5k per cast, but ward is iffy on the editor.

Building for full damage though (27k health, 35k mag, 7.4k spell damage) and fully buffed, matriarch heals for ~3k more than shroud + blood magic combined (22k compared to 19k) or roughly 15% more healing.

StaticWave wrote: »

1) There are a few bugs on the Editor and Ward is one of them unfortunately. Most of the Editor is correct though.

3) I think those 18k-20k Healthy Offering tooltips are inflated by being near a keep and/or stacking Major + Minor Mending.

I agree Ward needs to be tuned down. The burst heal could be turned into a Hot, which was my original suggestion in the other thread I made. I’m sure @Turtle_Bot agrees too. Blood Magic buff + Ward giving a HoT should still provide plenty of healing while not removing the trade-off of using a shield.

For comparison's sake I put the exact same build on NB mentioned above (39k health, 20k mag, 7.4k spell damage), offering has a 10.3k heal (20.9k tooltip). This is 10% more than shroud + blood magic combined on the exact same build and it costs nearly 30% less resources to cast it (the health cost doesn't matter since leeching strikes heals for 1.25x actual healing of the health cost of offering every second).

All heals were "near a keep" offering only had minor mending because its on the skill, no healing CP, no major mending, and it still hit that ~21k tooltip (23.5k tooltip with major mending included) and it tooltips for 18k with ONLY minor mending (no nearby keep or major mending).

I agree that ward should have its burst heal made into a HoT now that blood magic is being changed this way, but offering really is just that strong. There's no need to have mending active or be near a keep to try and inflate those numbers when you can stack enough damage modifiers to reach those values already.

MashmalloMan

Gonna have to agree. Blood Magic change is fantastic, but Hardened Ward's heal is too bursty in addition with the changes on high max mag stacking builds because they can sustain the 4.5k cost of it practically infinitely. However removing it entirely seems heavy handed.

Viable Max HP stacking builds using Ward, but not building as a troll tank (eg. 40k HP) have a harder time sustaining the high mag cost, while also having a lower tooltip. It seems more balanced on this end vs max mag stacking builds, but still too strong with Blood Magic changes accounted for.

I think the obvious fix is to change Wards heal into a hot, but I'd like to add that I don't think it should scale with resources, HP, or suggestions like damage at all. Imo it should be a flat value the same way Dark Conversion and Critical Surge are, this would eliminate the extremes between being negligible to completely overpowered.

Eg something like:
- Hardened = 10k over 3s (2.5k/s)
- Empowered = 10k over 5s (1.6k/s)

Turtle_Bot

@StaticWave I agree with what @Jsmalls is saying though, adjusting the opening post to be along the lines of:

"The change to the Blood magic passive will make sorc very tanky with a lot of burst healing, so to compensate for this buff to sorcs healing, adjusting the burst heal on hardened ward to be a heal over time, would bring things back into line."

Or something that reflects this. But this sentiment has to be the main point/take away from the opening post of the thread, or things just fall apart.

Something I've found trying to push for sorcs to get buffed originally back in U36/37 and onwards, you have to provide a direction of where you feel the issue being presented will be in a balanced spot so that ZOS has something to aim for when making adjustments.

Simply stating X or Y is OP and needs nerfing, while simplistic and catchy, is why we end up with things like U35 deletion of sorcs and immediate panic buffs to BA/prey due to the simplistic outcrys of "savage werewolf sorc is OP needs nerf now", or the removal of overloads 3rd bar, the removal of harmony cro, attempts to put cast times on wards, etc, etc.

It just seems as though ESO is currently being worked on by minimal staffing (just what it seems like), so making their jobs even slightly easier by providing a direction as to what you think could be a balanced change for something goes a long way to getting things changed.

Refer to my last post on your other thread where I listed the pain points from U36 and where ZOS is at for addressing those, for proof of this, as ZOS has been attempting to address the pain points raised back in U36 after everyone put forward a direction for what was needed for the class.
Yes, it's taken a while but they were basically unaware of how bad sorc had gotten back then so it was always going to take a long time to get things rolling when starting from such a position but providing direction and consensus has helped this along.

monkidb16_ESO

Give it up @StaticWave

I've learned that most single class mains are [snip] and keep asking for buffs to their class and nerfs to others.
[snip] so you best just learn to play the FOTM class which right now is Sorc.

[edited for bashing]