Warden Betty Netch Change

Skjaldbjorn

This change, effectively, accomplishes nothing. A 5s damage buff from a skill that consumes a GCD, deals no damage, and is generally never cast in serious structured trial content. In fact, I would wager on average, PVPers cast this skill more than PVE players do outside of world/overland and perhaps dungeon content. Wardens need changes that bring them back into the trial conversation. This does absolutely zero to achieve those goals, and even suggesting this is a buff with any actual bearing on the class is absurd and outright insulting.

CameraBeardThePirate

This is a flat 5% damage increase to most PvE scenarios... not sure why you say it's "effectively nothing".

The netch attempts to purge every 5 seconds, and on cast. If no effects were purged, you get a buff. In a lot of PvE encounters (basically any non-trial settings, and especially those with a healer running a purge), you'll get that 5% buff more often than not every 5 seconds while the netch lasts.

MashmalloMan

It's a really good change to an already powerful skill, which is now usable in content outside pvp/solo. I would say try it first before you call it useless. It's a great step in the right direction, no one should be expecting gigantic class balance changes for chapter releases as they've made it abundantly clear that is never the focus. That said, this is a welcome change to see in improving Wardens companion tree, it's not the end all be all, but they never implied that to begin with. In fact, they said the opposite, they want to improve the companion tree further in the future for DPS.

I hope they take this same approach with Sorc's Storm Calling or Necro's Grave Lord trees in the future, as these are both pretty terrible for DPS despite being DPS focused lines.

Skjaldbjorn

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

This is a flat 5% damage increase to most PvE scenarios... not sure why you say it's "effectively nothing".

The netch attempts to purge every 5 seconds, and on cast. If no effects were purged, you get a buff. In a lot of PvE encounters (and especially those with a healer running a purge), you'll get that 5% buff more often than not every 5 seconds while the netch lasts.

I will say I misread it initially. I thought it only applied the buff on the initial cast - fair enough, it's better than I thought it was. However, it's still forcing Warden to run a skill they really weren't previously in most end-game content though. Sustain isn't really a big issue, and a 5% damage buff isn't bad, but it's a bar slot that could be something else, and a lost global.

Skullstachio

Not to mention if there are no negative effects on the warden, it can last anywhere on cast between 0 seconds to 30 seconds of which will fluctuate depending on if there are any cleansable negative effects active during each interval.

ESO_Nightingale

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

This is a flat 5% damage increase to most PvE scenarios... not sure why you say it's "effectively nothing".

The netch attempts to purge every 5 seconds, and on cast. If no effects were purged, you get a buff. In a lot of PvE encounters (and especially those with a healer running a purge), you'll get that 5% buff more often than not every 5 seconds while the netch lasts.

I will say I misread it initially. I thought it only applied the buff on the initial cast - fair enough, it's better than I thought it was. However, it's still forcing Warden to run a skill they really weren't previously in most end-game content though. Sustain isn't really a big issue, and a 5% damage buff isn't bad, but it's a bar slot that could be something else, and a lost global.

Sustain is a massive issue for magicka warden, so it's really helpful there.

Nerouyn

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

This change, effectively, accomplishes nothing. A 5s damage buff from a skill that consumes a GCD, deals no damage, and is generally never cast in serious structured trial content.

If trials float your boat, good for you but there is much more to the game.

It is a tiny change but not nothing.

In regular PvE the removing a status effect every 5 seconds is useful just about never. Another 5% damage puts it on par with with 5% passive damage boost from Bird of Prey.

Plus Betty's resource regeneration and Major Brutality / Sorcery.

This makes me more inclined to use it, and play my wardens.

Though I'm more encouraged by the fact that they have bigger plans to fix the class and sharing that with us now.

ESO_Nightingale

Nerouyn wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

This change, effectively, accomplishes nothing. A 5s damage buff from a skill that consumes a GCD, deals no damage, and is generally never cast in serious structured trial content.

If trials float your boat, good for you but there is much more to the game.

It is a tiny change but not nothing.

In regular PvE the removing a status effect every 5 seconds is useful just about never. Another 5% damage puts it on par with with 5% passive damage boost from Bird of Prey.

Plus Betty's resource regeneration and Major Brutality / Sorcery.

This makes me more inclined to use it, and play my wardens.

Though I'm more encouraged by the fact that they have bigger plans to fix the class and sharing that with us now.

im concerned with what their plans are. from what i read it sounded like needlessly nerfing winters embrace's dps stuff for no reason. i hope it just means changing how piercing cold works and removing that weird restriction on winters revenge.

Skjaldbjorn

Nerouyn wrote: »

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

This change, effectively, accomplishes nothing. A 5s damage buff from a skill that consumes a GCD, deals no damage, and is generally never cast in serious structured trial content.

If trials float your boat, good for you but there is much more to the game.

It is a tiny change but not nothing.

In regular PvE the removing a status effect every 5 seconds is useful just about never. Another 5% damage puts it on par with with 5% passive damage boost from Bird of Prey.

Plus Betty's resource regeneration and Major Brutality / Sorcery.

This makes me more inclined to use it, and play my wardens.

Though I'm more encouraged by the fact that they have bigger plans to fix the class and sharing that with us now.

I am aware more of the game exists. I am also aware Warden has been extremely powerful in PVP for a large portion of its existence.

However, I have mained Warden since the release of Morrowind. I've raided with Warden in all but two chapter years - Summerset and Necrom. I played Warden when it was terrible and still did okay, including an entire patch cycle where I was the only Stamden on logs for vSS HM.

I bring the insight of end-game raiding because Warden has been in the basement there for nearly the entire time it has been in the game. Each time Warden creeps into the top-3 for DPS, it almost immediately gets hammered the following patch to return it to the basement. Sometimes for PVP reasons, sometimes, like the bear nerf + passive change and then passive revert without reverting the bear nerf, purely due to incompetence.

Skjaldbjorn

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Sustain is a massive issue for magicka warden, so it's really helpful there.

I'd say that very much depends on skill level and group composition/level. For example, the top Warden parse this patch on Talaria is a Mag-centric Warden with, you guessed it, no netch.

https://www.esologs.com/reports/mxaZNbCchnj7rg8d#fight=15&type=summary&source=5

Skjaldbjorn

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Sustain is a massive issue for magicka warden, so it's really helpful there.

That log gets especially nutty when you realize they weren't running sustain food - they had on sugar skulls.

ESO_Nightingale

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Sustain is a massive issue for magicka warden, so it's really helpful there.

That log gets especially nutty when you realize they weren't running sustain food - they had on sugar skulls.

they also had an extreme amount of stamina costing skills on their bars which is hard to work with since you have a lot less room for roll dodging, blocking and sprinting. our magicka sustain is very problematic at the moment, this change helps immensely.

Iuppiterr

MashmalloMan wrote: »

It's a great step in the right direction, no one should be expecting gigantic class balance changes for chapter releases as they've made it abundantly clear that is never the focus

Hahaha, Ask Templar about high isle my guy

Skjaldbjorn

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

they also had an extreme amount of stamina costing skills on their bars which is hard to work with since you have a lot less room for roll dodging, blocking and sprinting. our magicka sustain is very problematic at the moment, this change helps immensely.

I'm not sure if this is like a perception difference or something, but I'd say 3-4 skills of the opposing resource is pretty standard these days. As a Stamden, I consistently ran arctic blast, winter's and mag bugs for a long time, and sometimes would slot rune for specific fights.

I think that's part of the overall appeal of the transition away from skills being locked to a specific weapon/spell damage class - it opened the door to actually grossly improve sustain by being able to slot any skill regardless of resource cost. My Stamden's sustain went up tremendously with that change because I was able to throw a few mag skills on my bar.

CrazyKitty

I read this as "Warren Beatty netch change". Sorry for the off topic, but it was pretty funny for a second trying to figure out my confusion and what kind of change this would be.

yadibroz

Skjaldbjorn wrote: »

This change, effectively, accomplishes nothing. A 5s damage buff from a skill that consumes a GCD, deals no damage, and is generally never cast in serious structured trial content. In fact, I would wager on average, PVPers cast this skill more than PVE players do outside of world/overland and perhaps dungeon content. Wardens need changes that bring them back into the trial conversation. This does absolutely zero to achieve those goals, and even suggesting this is a buff with any actual bearing on the class is absurd and outright insulting.

They need to focus on ice more