So its another world ending threat?

Frogmother

soelslaev wrote: »

See, now you guys got me hankering for an MMO where the setting is as low and gritty as it can get. Like the Torchbearer tabletop pen-and-paper RPG or Asprin's Thieves World books.

I'm talking about an entire annual chapter story dedicated to something like the local cow herds were getting sick and it turns out a goblin tribe moved into the old Dripping Cave nearby and they were drinking cow's blood and giving them infections. And the 10th anniversary jubilee story might be something like, the local duke gets a couple dozen knights together to go trounce another duke in the next castle because of hunting ground disputes. And like, the big reward for doing a hard-mode group dungeon is like a brass button for your waistcoat.

this idea is better than another super, immortal, evil god trying to destroy the world, who I melt in seconds in the final "epic" fight.

Hapexamendios

There's not much else you can expect story wise when the world is filled with malevolent immortal entities.

ToRelax

Frogmother wrote: »

soelslaev wrote: »

See, now you guys got me hankering for an MMO where the setting is as low and gritty as it can get. Like the Torchbearer tabletop pen-and-paper RPG or Asprin's Thieves World books.

I'm talking about an entire annual chapter story dedicated to something like the local cow herds were getting sick and it turns out a goblin tribe moved into the old Dripping Cave nearby and they were drinking cow's blood and giving them infections. And the 10th anniversary jubilee story might be something like, the local duke gets a couple dozen knights together to go trounce another duke in the next castle because of hunting ground disputes. And like, the big reward for doing a hard-mode group dungeon is like a brass button for your waistcoat.

this idea is better than another super, immortal, evil god trying to destroy the world, who I melt in seconds in the final "epic" fight.

After the recent chapters, I wish that's still how the boss fights worked.

FluffyBird

Dragonnord wrote: »

FluffyBird wrote: »

So, do you have any fresh ideas of your own?

Why would I if I clearly stated that I like what ZOS does with chapters plots and I support them continuing on the same path?

I want them to keep creating those end-of-the-world adventures for chapters.

For everything else, we have side quests.
 

Then you've expressed your opinion, so let those who are sick of story "reskins" discuss what THEY want

SerafinaWaterstar

Orsinium & Murkmire are 2 good examples of interesting non end-of-the-world stories. As were the stories for TG & DB.

So it can be done.

(Liked the story of Necrom & felt it less ‘must save the world’, more Hermaeus Mora saying that to help him cover up his mistakes. Hope that not spoiled by Gold Road & making Ithelia another deadra that threatens Tamriel <yawn>)

TybaltKaine

I think the real problem here is that instead of the Daedra acting as influencers over very mortal people and creating a threat that way, the writing team has decided to use the Daedra themselves as the threat.

Use the template that other ES games have given you and allow the Daedra to be the one pulling the pinata instead of being the pinata.

Alefroth

soelslaev wrote: »

See, now you guys got me hankering for an MMO where the setting is as low and gritty as it can get. Like the Torchbearer tabletop pen-and-paper RPG or Asprin's Thieves World books.

I'm talking about an entire annual chapter story dedicated to something like the local cow herds were getting sick and it turns out a goblin tribe moved into the old Dripping Cave nearby and they were drinking cow's blood and giving them infections. And the 10th anniversary jubilee story might be something like, the local duke gets a couple dozen knights together to go trounce another duke in the next castle because of hunting ground disputes. And like, the big reward for doing a hard-mode group dungeon is like a brass button for your waistcoat.

Are you kidding? Those are side quests.

Alefroth

Tandor wrote: »

ZOS are probably guided by the popularity of world-ending threads on this forum. The game has been dying for 10 years and counting, so why not the same with Tamriel ?

Lol... dying but making $2B.

Frogmother

TybaltKaine wrote: »

... Daedra acting as influencers ...

(Sorry) but when reading that I instantly imagined Lyranth in a Bikini posing in front of a camera. At least it would be some interesting content

furiouslog

I was really hoping that the next chapter story would involve a primary NPC's struggle with skooma addiction that would take us on a whirlwind tour of Tamriel's darkest and most economically depressed regions in a cutting rebuke of Aldmeri Dominion social policies.

Jaimeh

vsrs_au wrote: »

I posted in a similar thread some time ago that it would be nice to do something completely different, i.e. create a story in which an enemy convinces the normal citizens of Tamriel that the Vestige is public enemy #1, so all your normal friends become foes, and you then have to try to find a solution to this.

I love that idea! I can't really see the Vestige's friends ever being completely convinced that the Vestige turned evil, but they might have overwhelming (false) evidence and decide to contain him/her until they investigated the matter more, but the Vestige would get sick of waiting, and would escape to try and prove their innocence on their own. And perhaps there could be one of the 'ally NPCs', like Raz or Naryu who would still believe the Vestige, and help with the escape and then accompany the Vestige on the journey to clear their name.

vsrs_au

Jaimeh wrote: »

vsrs_au wrote: »

I posted in a similar thread some time ago that it would be nice to do something completely different, i.e. create a story in which an enemy convinces the normal citizens of Tamriel that the Vestige is public enemy #1, so all your normal friends become foes, and you then have to try to find a solution to this.

I love that idea! I can't really see the Vestige's friends ever being completely convinced that the Vestige turned evil, but they might have overwhelming (false) evidence and decide to contain him/her until they investigated the matter more, but the Vestige would get sick of waiting, and would escape to try and prove their innocence on their own. And perhaps there could be one of the 'ally NPCs', like Raz or Naryu who would still believe the Vestige, and help with the escape and then accompany the Vestige on the journey to clear their name.

Thanks, I'm glad someone likes the idea.

barney2525

Frogmother wrote: »

The Gold Road Story seems to be it... again.
World ending events seem to happen that often in Tamriel that I start to think we should let it happen to end this infinite cycle once for good.

I wish there would be an addon about e.g. a feud between the dark brotherhood or thieves guild and a popwerful family or guild where we can choose the side we will support. A local conflict where two groups try to outsmart each other, without powerful and immortal beings who in the end are nothing more than punching bags for the player.

the idea is not thoroughly thought through. You are suggesting an open ended, never ending conflict between PLAYERS. I think Archeage has pretty much shown how this is a really bad idea. One side becomes the dominant side and controls everything, the other side always loses and there is a LOT of hard feelings, arguing and More. It's why they finally got rid of Player Nations.

They have PvP in Cyradil for players who want to participate in those options. Simply 'go fight each other' in a variety of different options.

edward_frigidhands

Frogmother wrote: »

The Gold Road Story seems to be it... again.
World ending events seem to happen that often in Tamriel that I start to think we should let it happen to end this infinite cycle once for good.

I wish there would be an addon about e.g. a feud between the dark brotherhood or thieves guild and a popwerful family or guild where we can choose the side we will support. A local conflict where two groups try to outsmart each other, without powerful and immortal beings who in the end are nothing more than punching bags for the player.

I agree with you but I think they feel that the average player won't be able to digest a complicated story.

They are probably also afraid that a story like that leaves them vulnerable to critique when people will get offended over the most benign things in a story with more detail like that. This part has happened before.

FluffyBird

barney2525 wrote: »

thoroughly thought through

I hate English, thank you xd

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

t I think they feel that the average player won't be able to digest a complicated story.

Some quests give an impression that ZOS feels like an average player won't be able to digest "put a round thing in a round hole" level of "complicated"

Aztrias

2E 582 is a very crowded year, must be a world ending events and Daedric invasions everyday

FluffyBird

Aztrias wrote: »

2E 582 is a very crowded year, must be a world ending events and Daedric invasions everyday

Gods, I forgot that that's the case. It's so silly.

edward_frigidhands

FluffyBird wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

thoroughly thought through

I hate English, thank you xd

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

t I think they feel that the average player won't be able to digest a complicated story.

Some quests give an impression that ZOS feels like an average player won't be able to digest "put a round thing in a round hole" level of "complicated"

lol.

Varana

Alefroth wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

ZOS are probably guided by the popularity of world-ending threads on this forum. The game has been dying for 10 years and counting, so why not the same with Tamriel ?

Lol... dying but making $2B.

Tandor's remark was a joke about the relentless doomposting on the forums.

And this post is the explanation of that joke.

Shanrocks1

Would be refreshing to have a chapter focused on exploring other continents and the unknown. Like sailing once more to places where past expeditions have set sail and have never came back or failed and returned. Discovering new variants of plants and animals that can be used for crafting or maybe even capturing them for furnishings that can be placed in a house to make a mini zoo.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Well i like tes for the lore, the fantasy, the gods and all those thing. Political stuff isnt my thing and never will be. Keep in mind i do not ask for wold ending event just something monre fantasy related than politic.

fizzylu

Necrom was already bad enough since it alone felt like more of a prologue, but what I find extra comical is that the Gold Road prologue quest made everything we did in Necrom to now pointless and apparently Hermaeus Mora should have known that all along with his "her prison wasn't an actual place, being forgotten was" or whatever nonsense he said. Just had us chasing Torvesard around for funsies, I guess.

TaSheen

Oy, wrong thread - sorry!

metheglyn

fizzylu wrote: »

Necrom was already bad enough since it alone felt like more of a prologue, but what I find extra comical is that the Gold Road prologue quest made everything we did in Necrom to now pointless and apparently Hermaeus Mora should have known that all along with his "her prison wasn't an actual place, being forgotten was" or whatever nonsense he said. Just had us chasing Torvesard around for funsies, I guess.

Well, we were trying to prevent Torvesard from getting the glyphics that reignited his memory of Ithelia. If we had kept Torvesard from remembering her, she would have remained imprisoned. Torvesard didn't necessarily know that; he thought she was in an actual prison.

Anyway, we failed in Necrom and we failed in the prologue and Mora is no doubt leading us down a windy and twisty path because that's the kind of dude he is--can't trust him, don't like him, wish someone would make everyone forget him.

Bethgael

My real objection with "end-of-world" stories in ESO is that we know they aren't. There are no stakes. ESO is a prequel.

Sure, RPing a char that doesn't know that, but... then we need to allow the character more agency, not NPCs that act like the char has no idea of what's going on. Which... is problematic in an MMO because choices must always lead to the same place or you end up with a programming nightmare.

More personal stories (ie, not "world ending" stories every time) may be the way to address this dichotomy of issues.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

TybaltKaine wrote: »

I think the real problem here is that instead of the Daedra acting as influencers over very mortal people and creating a threat that way, the writing team has decided to use the Daedra themselves as the threat.

Use the template that other ES games have given you and allow the Daedra to be the one pulling the pinata instead of being the pinata.

This.
They are loving throwing in daedra like there's no tomorrow nowadays and everyone is so casual about it. Worse, the princes are main badies and portrayed pretty badly. If a prince is involved, I want the story to do them justice. They are ancient eldritch beings of immense power yet are treated like sunday morning cartoon villains. Just look at Blackwood/Deadlands. You have the Lord of Destruction trying invade Nirn, something that should be terrifying, yet is treated so jokingly and casual, with Dagon doing a lot of standing with hands on hips attempting to look tough then even goes "Muahahaha" at one point. Then you have Eveli going "Oh acorns!" or something, while standing surrounded by burning corpses.
I found Dagon more threatening when he said like two sentences at the end of the City of Ash quest.

This is a case when less is more.

fizzylu

@metheglyn

He had already remembered her long before the last glyphic though? The last glyphic was just his way of learning exactly what Heramaeus Mora did to her and what he thought he would need to do to "release her". He flat out said in the last quest of Necrom that the last glyphic contains the "final secret", how to bring her back.

Then Hermaeus Mora hit us with these lines in the prologue quest, basically saying she had already been "freed" way before the events of that quest.


So yes.... all of the time we spent chasing Torvesard was pointless after he got his hands on the first glyphic. There's even dialogue about what each glyphic held: the first one had "what started it" aka his fear of Ithelia herself (meaning this is all Torvesard needed to properly remember her), the second had "what he did" aka how he chose to make her forgotten, and the third said it had some nonsense about arguments or something. And yes, you can theorize that it's just Heramaeus Mora speaking in riddles and leading us down weird paths.... but with all the gaps in the writing, I'm just going to label it as "meh storytelling". And I'll stop replying here now because I never meant for this to become some spoiler heavy discussion.

vsrs_au

fizzylu wrote: »

@metheglyn
He had already remembered her long before the last glyphic though? The last glyphic was just his way of learning exactly what Heramaeus Mora did to her and what he thought he would need to do to "release her". He flat out said in the last quest of Necrom that the last glyphic contains the "final secret", how to bring her back.

Then Hermaeus Mora hit us with these lines in the prologue quest, basically saying she had already been "freed" way before the events of that quest.


So yes.... all of the time we spent chasing Torvesard was pointless after he got his hands on the first glyphic. There's even dialogue about what each glyphic held: the first one had "what started it" aka his fear of Ithelia herself (meaning this is all Torvesard needed to properly remember her), the second had "what he did" aka how he chose to make her forgotten, and the third said it had some nonsense about arguments or something. And yes, you can theorize that it's just Heramaeus Mora speaking in riddles and leading us down weird paths.... but with all the gaps in the writing, I'm just going to label it as "meh storytelling". And I'll stop replying here now because I never meant for this to become some spoiler heavy discussion.

Couldn't you have used spoiler tags? I haven't done that chapter yet, and it would have been nice to do it without accidentally reading anything about its plot.

fizzylu

@vsrs_au
my bad, didn't check to see how to do that and never had to use one before

metheglyn

fizzylu wrote: »

@metheglyn

He had already remembered her long before the last glyphic though? The last glyphic was just his way of learning exactly what Heramaeus Mora did to her and what he thought he would need to do to "release her". He flat out said in the last quest of Necrom that the last glyphic contains the "final secret", how to bring her back.

Then Hermaeus Mora hit us with these lines in the prologue quest, basically saying she had already been "freed" way before the events of that quest.


So yes.... all of the time we spent chasing Torvesard was pointless after he got his hands on the first glyphic. There's even dialogue about what each glyphic held: the first one had "what started it" aka his fear of Ithelia herself (meaning this is all Torvesard needed to properly remember her), the second had "what he did" aka how he chose to make her forgotten, and the third said it had some nonsense about arguments or something. And yes, you can theorize that it's just Heramaeus Mora speaking in riddles and leading us down weird paths.... but with all the gaps in the writing, I'm just going to label it as "meh storytelling". And I'll stop replying here now because I never meant for this to become some spoiler heavy discussion.

I agree that the story has some "wait, what?" moments to it. I've kind of chosen to believe Mora is fearful and panicked and desperate, and that leads to him doing questionable things and saying whatever he thinks he needs to say to get us to do whatever we can to make things how he wants them.

I've mentioned in another discussion that I don't want to be on Mora's team anyway, but that's the problem with MMO storytelling: everyone has to end up in the same place with the same outcome. It makes for confining stories that can't have a whole lot of nuance to them.

On thread topic, though: I don't think the Gold Road story is set up to be another world-ending threat but I do think Mora wants us to believe that, for reasons of his own. We'll see how it all plays out.