ZOS not respecting players' time

Smaxx

Shara_Wynn wrote: »

RNG is brutal... And generous... And everything in between.

In other words: The drop chances are so low, it's even discouraging to see others achieve the desired goal sometimes within minutes, while you've been on it for hours.

Having random drops you have to work for is perfectly valid and it's also not fun if you can complete it within a day or two on casual level, but even if you hardcore grind for hours and can't do it due to randomness, it feels like regular true time gating (e.g. you can only find one page a day no matter the source) would have been the way better and more fun option.

At least currently to me this grind feels worse than anything most F2P games can come up with…

virtus753

derkaiserliche wrote: »

Btw the event is extremly long, so if you keep grinding you will get the items you wish for anyways.

As long as the chance is not 100%, it's not the case that every person who tries will get the items they wish for. A long event doesn't guarantee anything, even for people who have plenty of time to grind. RNG doesn't know how long we've tried, nor does it care.

Considering the chance here is a very, very far way away from being 100%, I would think a lot of players are not going to end up with what they want out of this. It's an anniversary celebration, not a contest or competition - why should people who try miss out? There could have been a set amount of time/effort involved, not some purely RNG-based amount that may take anywhere from 3 seconds to over 10 hours for a single page. Winning the RNG lottery is not an achievement based on personal effort or skill or time invested. It's random, or as close to random as computers can get.

What I've been seeing in zone chat and reading on the forums the past two days makes me sad. I feel it myself as well. And I don't think the design of a game - and especially of a once-per-decade celebratory event within a game - should be making people feel this way. We've certainly had more generous ways of rewarding players for time and effort, including just last month. The difference is startling to me.

GusTheWizard

I got the Ul'vor's staff on my 7th geyser and the Worm staff on my 9th anchor, however I’m now 4 hours into farming in Vvardenfell and I haven’t gotten either.

LalMirchi

Bearing mind the the MO of MMOs is incessant grinding the necessary skills would be patience, meticulous inventory management and strategy (not always related to combat prowess).

Grega

BetweenMidgets wrote: »

I absolutely agree, and mirror the sentiments of those who have said this is the most un-fun anniversary event yet.

Also in previous years, it seems like the current motif style page (so, the Earthbone Ayleid style page) would drop from purple boxes too, once a day. In previous years I'd gotten into the habit of saving all my gold boxes, and keeping 30-40 purple boxes to open when I'd log on each day so I could get the motif.

I was quite surprised on day one after opening over 100 boxes and not getting an Earthbone Ayleid style page. Just another bit of disappointment. I always say this is my FAVORITE event, but it really just HASN'T been my fav this year.

I’ve been doing that every event last year. It looks like ZOS finally caught on this practice (saving boxes to open them after events for additional style pages), - and have now moved on to GUARANTEED style page from gold box, rather than RNG from any box.

They started this with a jesters event, and now this - so I’m assuming saving up boxes is now a thing of the past.

heaven13

Serpari wrote: »

If they wanted us to grind they should've not limited three out of the four drops to specific zones. Tying styles to Vvardenfell and Summerset only means there's gonna be bottlenecks in those areas, and people will not get their boxes with the amount of people killing world bosses and geysers way too quickly.

I got Trueflame on my eight fishing hole, I got Ul'vor's on my first geyser. And now I'm suffering 150+ dolmens in with no Staff of Worms, which is what I actually wanted the most. It's so silly. Do I even want the Staff of Worms when it faces the wrong way and has this VFX issue? And after getting the Staff of Worms, if I even get it, I suspect I'll be too burnt out of the grind to bother with Sunnarah and Barbas' helmet.

I attempted to get Ul'Vor both yesterday and today. After quite a few rounds of geysers, I had to switch to Vvardenfell just because the sheer number of people, with pets and companions, and effects and then exploding mounts when leaving for the next one was giving me a physical, actual migraine. At least in Vvardenfell there are not nearly as many people (which I find strange because there are 2 things here but I guess people are less interested). I'm still farming for both though and have been in Vvardenfell for hours this afternoon.

Worst anniversary by far, imo.

And yes, absolutely agree about the staff facing backwards. They've done that with a couple and I hate every single one of what could be nice looking staves that are just awkwardly held (some are completely backwards and a lot are turned sideways one way or another).

BetweenMidgets

kyatos_binarini wrote: »

Abusing players' FOMO with those style pages and achievements that require tickets is definitely a step in the wrong direction. It's a shame that ZOS treats us in such a disgusting manner on their anniversary celebration.

I actually had totally forgotten about the achievement for cake slices AND the need to buy some of the fragments to complete the horse. That is pretty dang scummy lol.

CrashTest

I just gave up and don't bother playing this because it's extremely unfun to battle horrible RNG especially when it's limited time stuff.

This just causes burnout and disgust with the game.

virtus753

heaven13 wrote: »

Serpari wrote: »

If they wanted us to grind they should've not limited three out of the four drops to specific zones. Tying styles to Vvardenfell and Summerset only means there's gonna be bottlenecks in those areas, and people will not get their boxes with the amount of people killing world bosses and geysers way too quickly.

I got Trueflame on my eight fishing hole, I got Ul'vor's on my first geyser. And now I'm suffering 150+ dolmens in with no Staff of Worms, which is what I actually wanted the most. It's so silly. Do I even want the Staff of Worms when it faces the wrong way and has this VFX issue? And after getting the Staff of Worms, if I even get it, I suspect I'll be too burnt out of the grind to bother with Sunnarah and Barbas' helmet.

At least in Vvardenfell there are not nearly as many people (which I find strange because there are 2 things here but I guess people are less interested).

It's possible that players are camping individual bosses in Vvardenfell rather than cycling through them like the geyser-go-round. If the population splits up like that, it means more people can get loot. That's one of the reasons the geysers and dolmens are particularly taxing. Dolmens are also hugely popular as xp grinds during double xp events anyhow, especially the ones in Alik'r and Auridon. Adding a style page there took an overcrowded situation and made it even worse.

Castagere

Why is anyone surprised by this? ZOS does the same thing every year with the RNG. It's like a joke now. Hey everyone thank you for sticking around for 10 years now go out and grind for things you may never get. We could have gifted everyone Trueflame as a special 10-year item but nah we will make you grind for it and laugh about it.

heaven13

virtus753 wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

Serpari wrote: »

If they wanted us to grind they should've not limited three out of the four drops to specific zones. Tying styles to Vvardenfell and Summerset only means there's gonna be bottlenecks in those areas, and people will not get their boxes with the amount of people killing world bosses and geysers way too quickly.

I got Trueflame on my eight fishing hole, I got Ul'vor's on my first geyser. And now I'm suffering 150+ dolmens in with no Staff of Worms, which is what I actually wanted the most. It's so silly. Do I even want the Staff of Worms when it faces the wrong way and has this VFX issue? And after getting the Staff of Worms, if I even get it, I suspect I'll be too burnt out of the grind to bother with Sunnarah and Barbas' helmet.

At least in Vvardenfell there are not nearly as many people (which I find strange because there are 2 things here but I guess people are less interested).

It's possible that players are camping individual bosses in Vvardenfell rather than cycling through them like the geyser-go-round. If the population splits up like that, it means more people can get loot. That's one of the reasons the geysers and dolmens are particularly taxing. Dolmens are also hugely popular as xp grinds during double xp events anyhow, especially the ones in Alik'r and Auridon. Adding a style page there took an overcrowded situation and made it even worse.

I only regularly saw people at two when I was attempting to do rounds (Queen's Consort and the ghostly group) but yeah, that's a good point.

SilverBride

I didn't even know there were new styles or grinds to get them.

Serpari

heaven13 wrote: »

I attempted to get Ul'Vor both yesterday and today. After quite a few rounds of geysers, I had to switch to Vvardenfell just because the sheer number of people, with pets and companions, and effects and then exploding mounts when leaving for the next one was giving me a physical, actual migraine. At least in Vvardenfell there are not nearly as many people (which I find strange because there are 2 things here but I guess people are less interested). I'm still farming for both though and have been in Vvardenfell for hours this afternoon.

This game desperate needs a limited battle animations setting like FFXIV where you can limit the VFX of yourself, your party members, and other players. It's a godsend when it comes to migraines.

dcrush

The event boxes are fun, but how many dailies can you do without burning out? And they’re the same as they do every year.

These style pages were a fun idea on paper but the ridiculous rng and the fact that they are bound just makes it a chore if you want to get them. I’ve been farming for hours trying to get some of them but only got two so far. I’m going on a trip soon where I’ll miss about ten days of the event. At first I thought of bringing my laptop… but having farmed for these style pages I have now decided it’s not worth it. Congratulations ZOS, you’ve managed to make me decide that not participating is more fun than participating in this event.

Shagreth

9 hours in and counting, no helmet or staff from Morrowind bosses. It's actually depressing, I have wasted my whole weekend for this already.

AzuraFan

TaSheen wrote: »

I don't really want any of it. So far I'm getting a lot of motifs I haven't had before out of the gold and purple boxes, so I'm happy!

I'm also happy with the anniversary boxes. Those and the marvelous decorations are things the anniversary celebration does right.

Alp

Shagreth wrote: »

9 hours in and counting, no helmet or staff from Morrowind bosses. It's actually depressing, I have wasted my whole weekend for this already.

I got the sword in my first fishing hole, that was my luck, I've run out now. 15 hours of bosses later, no drops.

Sidewaves89

Topic starter and half of the thread probably didn't play old school mmo games and have no idea what real grind is.

RebornV3x

its the same way with antiquity leads theres no need for such abysmal drop rates there's so much content in the game its an insult especially for leads that drop from bosses.

Elvenheart

@ZOS_Kevin and @ZOS_GinaBruno please hear all the feedback on this. The drop rate is terrible for some people, and this is ruining what should have been the best anniversary celebration so far.

EDITED TO ADD: For me personally, since I can only put in longer hours on the weekend, and due to a real life commitment coming up on one of those days, I have only three days left to spend grinding for the style pages while missing out on all the other things in the game I could be doing during the anniversary. The five special anniversary style pages delivery just wasn't well thought out the way it is now.

Smaxx

Sidewaves89 wrote: »

Topic starter and half of the thread probably didn't play old school mmo games and have no idea what real grind is.

I started in 2002 and I don't think I've ever seen any time limited thing having anything that rare. Ignoring Asian F2P garbage. And I can assure you, I've played. I've played a lot. I've played way too much back then.😉

Ch3mical_92

Sidewaves89 wrote: »

Topic starter and half of the thread probably didn't play old school mmo games and have no idea what real grind is.

There's a difference between being available to drop permanently or being available to drop during a timed event. I wouldn't complain if its farmable all the time, even after the event ends, but as long as it's a limited timeframe those horrendous droprates are truly pathetic.

I've now killed worldbosses for a total of 43+ hours since the event started (+ over 100 geysers and 2 hrs of dolmen) and still need to drop the style. I'm legit worried if I will ever drop all 5 styles during the duration of the event.

And the thing that triggers me the most is that this is supposed to be the big 10-year anniversary celebration.
In my opinion a game company should celebrate their community for supporting them & being loyal to them for 10 years. But this feels like a punishment for me. Dont get me wrong, I respect the idea of bringing back some iconic items from the old days of the game, but bloody Mara does the implementation ruin this whole event for me.

I've been camping at worldbosses for 10-12 hours a day, I can literally do nothing else in ESO right now. Jubilee-event has always been my favorite but I'm forced to grind out those styles instead of enjoying my usual jubilee-activities.

Alp

Sidewaves89 wrote: »

Topic starter and half of the thread probably didn't play old school mmo games and have no idea what real grind is.

"If I had to suffer then so must everyone else." 🦀

virtus753

Sidewaves89 wrote: »

Topic starter and half of the thread probably didn't play old school mmo games and have no idea what real grind is.

Just because something could be worse or used to be worse doesn't mean its current state is actually good or couldn't stand to be improved based on feedback.

Many people are re-evaluating things like work-life/game-life balance and how much grind they are ok with in what's supposed to be a fun and entertaining experience. Setting boundaries is not only normal but healthy. Letting developers know when those boundaries are being pushed is likewise important, not something to be rejected and invalidated because of a past that can't be changed.

MidniteOwl1913

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

Summerset geysers were actually not a bad time. There were groups running, people were generally being respectful and good natured about the whole thing.

Hmm, must be a different server. I couldn't even see the boss. No one was polite, it was a chaotic mess and no fun.

Elvenheart

Ch3mical_92 wrote: »

Sidewaves89 wrote: »

Topic starter and half of the thread probably didn't play old school mmo games and have no idea what real grind is.

There's a difference between being available to drop permanently or being available to drop during a timed event. I wouldn't complain if its farmable all the time, even after the event ends, but as long as it's a limited timeframe those horrendous droprates are truly pathetic.

I've now killed worldbosses for a total of 43+ hours since the event started (+ over 100 geysers and 2 hrs of dolmen) and still need to drop the style. I'm legit worried if I will ever drop all 5 styles during the duration of the event.

And the thing that triggers me the most is that this is supposed to be the big 10-year anniversary celebration.
In my opinion a game company should celebrate their community for supporting them & being loyal to them for 10 years. But this feels like a punishment for me. Dont get me wrong, I respect the idea of bringing back some iconic items from the old days of the game, but bloody Mara does the implementation ruin this whole event for me.

I've been camping at worldbosses for 10-12 hours a day, I can literally do nothing else in ESO right now. Jubilee-event has always been my favorite but I'm forced to grind out those styles instead of enjoying my usual jubilee-activities.

This is exactly what I’ve been trying to say in my posts about this.

alternatelder

I thought everyone was complaining about the normal style pages. I guess I didn't read the event details closely because I didn't know there were special ones. But I'm gonna go ahead and pretend I didn't know about them, I'm busy enjoying Fallout 76 and the Mothman event more at the moment.

SilverBride

I haven't been grinding for these and am not sure I even want to, but I completely sympathize with those that are. I am frankly surprised they would make these so difficult to get and in such a limited time frame.

This is the 10th anniversary and it should have special rewards to celebrate, not horrendous grinds for things the player may spend hours trying to get and may still never receive.

I think these new style pages should just be given to anyone that participated in the anniversary event. Let players enjoy the celebration and feel good about being rewarded for their loyalty.

Alp

I just got the first of the two Vvardenfell ones after some 17 hours total.

Shagreth

Look, I'm all for earning things and difficult grinds, but we have to remember that this is done in a FOMO manner. If the styles were available always, it wouldn't be a problem. I wouldn't have a problem with a ~1% drop rate, I would dedicate a couple of hours per weekend and eventually get X or Y item, much like I did in WoW for mounts etc.

The design philosophy of ESO is often toxic. @ZOS_Kevin consider this please and how you give us cosmetics. I DON'T want for things to be the other extreme (too easy) I like to work for stuff, but we're already getting cosmetics with the pipette, drop by drop. This is bad.