SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »I think ZOS needs to do something about the add-ons personally. Lazy writ crafter, for example. Excessive gold sinks would just hurt console players.
I think that would be a huge mistake, especially after allowing add-ons for 10 years. If add-ons were no longer allowed I am pretty certain they would lose a huge amount of their playerbase.
It doesn't have to be every add-on, just very specific ones that are having a bad effect on the PC economy.
Lazy Writ Crafter doesn't do anything but make it faster to complete the daily writs. Saving time allows players more time for the things they enjoy. This does not hurt the economy.
spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Lazy Writ Crafter doesn't do anything but make it faster to complete the daily writs. Saving time allows players more time for the things they enjoy. This does not hurt the economy.
It lets you print money faster than would be humanely possible without the add-on. This results in players being able to generate more coin than they various sinks are able to deal with, and as a result coin becomes less scarce. Since coin is less scarce, it has less value. Meaning you have to do more writs to get the same purchasing power as you had before. It absolutely hurts the economy.
There is a reason that consoles have never had this issue. Both PC servers (EU and NA) have much, much less valuable coins than console.
furiouslog wrote: »What we really need to fix this problem is a number of arcane financial instruments that would enable the super rich to invest their wealth and get even more rich while leaving the rest of the ESO player population scrounging for the leftovers. If nothing else, it would increase immersion.
doesurmindglow wrote: »Zodiarkslayer wrote: »The only thing I'd like to add is that most players claim they are talking about inflation, while they are actually talking about "wages". Or rather that their labour does not let them purchase the commodities that they want.
🤣 So maybe we should form a union and demand a minimum wage of one million per day! 🤣
I can't speak for others on the thread but I've been talking about inflation -- the fact that the rate of gold production exceeds the rate of gold destruction, and the resulting devaluation of gold as a means of exchange with purchasing power.
There aren't really wages in a customary sense in the ESO economy. Sure, yes, the value of labor could be impacted -- I brought up an example earlier about how crafting writs is considerably less profitable now than simply hedging against inflation by trading out of gold -- but to me that's not really as important as what's going on with the value of currency itself.
SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Lazy Writ Crafter doesn't do anything but make it faster to complete the daily writs. Saving time allows players more time for the things they enjoy. This does not hurt the economy.
It lets you print money faster than would be humanely possible without the add-on. This results in players being able to generate more coin than they various sinks are able to deal with, and as a result coin becomes less scarce. Since coin is less scarce, it has less value. Meaning you have to do more writs to get the same purchasing power as you had before. It absolutely hurts the economy.
There is a reason that consoles have never had this issue. Both PC servers (EU and NA) have much, much less valuable coins than console.
It let's us do the daily writs faster but it doesn't generate any more gold or rewards than if we completed these without it.
And I still maintain that the two keep pace with each other. Compare time spent to be able to get the item whether through purchase or farming and there isn't a huge difference. It is easy to make gold on PC servers and prices reflect that.
spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Lazy Writ Crafter doesn't do anything but make it faster to complete the daily writs. Saving time allows players more time for the things they enjoy. This does not hurt the economy.
It lets you print money faster than would be humanely possible without the add-on. This results in players being able to generate more coin than they various sinks are able to deal with, and as a result coin becomes less scarce. Since coin is less scarce, it has less value. Meaning you have to do more writs to get the same purchasing power as you had before. It absolutely hurts the economy.
There is a reason that consoles have never had this issue. Both PC servers (EU and NA) have much, much less valuable coins than console.
It let's us do the daily writs faster but it doesn't generate any more gold or rewards than if we completed these without it.
Yes. It does. I'll make up some numbers to illustrate why
Let's say that you're willing to devote 30 minutes of playtime to writs. And without the add-on, it takes 5 minutes. With the add-on, it takes 2.5 minutes. I can do 6 writs without the add-on, or 12 with the add-on. Resulting in double the number of writs completed (and coin generated) within the same time period.
Those numbers are illustrative but this is precisely the reason that people do less writs on console despite the coin reward being the same. The writs are too time-consuming for most players to do the same amount of writs as PC players.
Automation allows for greater scale.
It is far, far easier for PC players to make coin thanks to add-ons. As a result, coin is less scarce. And less scarce items have less value.
Coin is devalued on PC.
SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Lazy Writ Crafter doesn't do anything but make it faster to complete the daily writs. Saving time allows players more time for the things they enjoy. This does not hurt the economy.
It lets you print money faster than would be humanely possible without the add-on. This results in players being able to generate more coin than they various sinks are able to deal with, and as a result coin becomes less scarce. Since coin is less scarce, it has less value. Meaning you have to do more writs to get the same purchasing power as you had before. It absolutely hurts the economy.
There is a reason that consoles have never had this issue. Both PC servers (EU and NA) have much, much less valuable coins than console.
It let's us do the daily writs faster but it doesn't generate any more gold or rewards than if we completed these without it.
Yes. It does. I'll make up some numbers to illustrate why
Let's say that you're willing to devote 30 minutes of playtime to writs. And without the add-on, it takes 5 minutes. With the add-on, it takes 2.5 minutes. I can do 6 writs without the add-on, or 12 with the add-on. Resulting in double the number of writs completed (and coin generated) within the same time period.
Those numbers are illustrative but this is precisely the reason that people do less writs on console despite the coin reward being the same. The writs are too time-consuming for most players to do the same amount of writs as PC players.
Automation allows for greater scale.
It is far, far easier for PC players to make coin thanks to add-ons. As a result, coin is less scarce. And less scarce items have less value.
Coin is devalued on PC.
Whether it takes 30 minutes or an hour, the amount of gold and rewards for doing the same amount of writs is still the same.
As for coin being less valuable because it's less scarce... the coins don't have less value because they allow the player to purchase the more expensive mats from traders etc.. It all evens out.
SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Lazy Writ Crafter doesn't do anything but make it faster to complete the daily writs. Saving time allows players more time for the things they enjoy. This does not hurt the economy.
It lets you print money faster than would be humanely possible without the add-on. This results in players being able to generate more coin than they various sinks are able to deal with, and as a result coin becomes less scarce. Since coin is less scarce, it has less value. Meaning you have to do more writs to get the same purchasing power as you had before. It absolutely hurts the economy.
There is a reason that consoles have never had this issue. Both PC servers (EU and NA) have much, much less valuable coins than console.
It let's us do the daily writs faster but it doesn't generate any more gold or rewards than if we completed these without it.
Yes. It does. I'll make up some numbers to illustrate why
Let's say that you're willing to devote 30 minutes of playtime to writs. And without the add-on, it takes 5 minutes. With the add-on, it takes 2.5 minutes. I can do 6 writs without the add-on, or 12 with the add-on. Resulting in double the number of writs completed (and coin generated) within the same time period.
Those numbers are illustrative but this is precisely the reason that people do less writs on console despite the coin reward being the same. The writs are too time-consuming for most players to do the same amount of writs as PC players.
Automation allows for greater scale.
It is far, far easier for PC players to make coin thanks to add-ons. As a result, coin is less scarce. And less scarce items have less value.
Coin is devalued on PC.
Whether it takes 30 minutes or an hour, the amount of gold and rewards for doing the same amount of writs is still the same.
As for coin being less valuable because it's less scarce... the coins don't have less value because they allow the player to purchase the more expensive mats from traders etc.. It all evens out.
spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Whether it takes 30 minutes or an hour, the amount of gold and rewards for doing the same amount of writs is still the same.
As for coin being less valuable because it's less scarce... the coins don't have less value because they allow the player to purchase the more expensive mats from traders etc.. It all evens out.
But again, the player in the example only has time to do 30 minutes of writs.
They can do 6 without the add-on or 12 with the add-on in that 30 minute time limit.
Most players don't have infinite time to spend on such tasks. They do they for a bit of time each day and then play something else. Console players do NOT do as many writs as PC players because it takes longer.
SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Whether it takes 30 minutes or an hour, the amount of gold and rewards for doing the same amount of writs is still the same.
As for coin being less valuable because it's less scarce... the coins don't have less value because they allow the player to purchase the more expensive mats from traders etc.. It all evens out.
But again, the player in the example only has time to do 30 minutes of writs.
They can do 6 without the add-on or 12 with the add-on in that 30 minute time limit.
Most players don't have infinite time to spend on such tasks. They do they for a bit of time each day and then play something else. Console players do NOT do as many writs as PC players because it takes longer.
Console and PC do not mix. One economy doesn't affect the other. So it doesn't matter how fast we can do them with an add-on on PC because how much we make on PC has no effect on Console.
spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Whether it takes 30 minutes or an hour, the amount of gold and rewards for doing the same amount of writs is still the same.
As for coin being less valuable because it's less scarce... the coins don't have less value because they allow the player to purchase the more expensive mats from traders etc.. It all evens out.
But again, the player in the example only has time to do 30 minutes of writs.
They can do 6 without the add-on or 12 with the add-on in that 30 minute time limit.
Most players don't have infinite time to spend on such tasks. They do they for a bit of time each day and then play something else. Console players do NOT do as many writs as PC players because it takes longer.
Console and PC do not mix. One economy doesn't affect the other. So it doesn't matter how fast we can do them with an add-on on PC because how much we make on PC has no effect on Console.
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the reason console doesn't have the same issues is because it's harder and more time consuming to make coin.
Zodiarkslayer wrote: »Wages can be devalued by inflation like anything else. But releasing more gold in at the bottom in this case (ie, increasing the "wages" for doing in-game "work") will only exacerbate the inflationary pressures on prices because those wages are likely to go straight up into the relatively small number of accounts that are driving prices.
I am contesting the idea of there being an inflation at all. Players who claim that, are in denial about them being rather poor, too lazy to farm gold or unknowledgeable to do so effectively.
Players who leave ESO are the biggest gold sink. And there are players who sit on a mountain of gold, so large that they have to make multiple accounts to hold all their gold. Look to the GMs of the largest trade guilds for some reality check.
Are there really so many players on PC doing huge quantities of writs? I admit I have no idea. I do writs on a couple of characters a day on three accounts, both PC megaservers.
I have a couple of million gold on each account both PC megaservers - and I don't buy much at all. I really didn't realize there were "megamillionaires" with that sort of gold....
SilverBride wrote: »How would reducing the amount of gold help? This would just motivate players to raise their prices to make up for the loss.
SilverBride wrote: »How would reducing the amount of gold help? This would just motivate players to raise their prices to make up for the loss.
Nope. Under my idea, gold mats and master writs, surveys, would drop more often giving people more things to sell. More gold shuffling between players rather than generated from nothing.
SilverBride wrote: »How would reducing the amount of gold help? This would just motivate players to raise their prices to make up for the loss.
Nope. Under my idea, gold mats and master writs, surveys, would drop more often giving people more things to sell. More gold shuffling between players rather than generated from nothing.
I think ZOS have given off a general impression that they don't want to *force* players into the guild trader market, and I think that's a fundamental problem with solving everything via that market. ZOS clearly intends players to get income from playing the game and doing certain tasks exterior to the guild trader market. They obviously put a lot of thought into the gameplay loop of mats & research->writs & master writs->gold/writ vouchers. Given set up can be a significant time investment, I doubt they want to risk breaking what isn't broken and forcing players into the commitments involved with guild trading. It's a game, and they probably don't expect ALL (or even a majority) of players to enjoy trading or to want to participate in that gameplay loop.
There's also always the risk, when removing gold *generation*, of some form of liquidity crunch. I don't know how much gold overall writs put into ESO's economy, but if people are already struggling to meet price points due to inflation, I suspect it would cause at least a mild crunch, and make the grind for players further down even more pronounced even after a long adjustment period and market "correction".
That adjustment would probably hurt the game far worse than a mild contractionary policy that reduces the size of the economy by removing excess gold at the site where the excess is collecting: The top. The gold excess that causes inflation doesn't collect at the point of generation, and removing it from the point of generation potentially just prices out more and more of a larger and larger pool of players.
... I really didn't realize there were "megamillionaires" with that sort of gold....
ItMustBeThursday wrote: »I've been wondering if there is anything planned to address the rampant inflation affecting the in game economy.
The price of certain items has gone absolutely insane, and it feels like you'd have to aggressively farm gold to be able to buy even the most basic necessities.
xylena_lazarow wrote: »It's a game not a job. If the game is making you do unfavoured tasks to progress, yes that's the game's problem.I_killed_Vivec wrote: »"I don't like doing [insert unfavoured task here]. ZoS, change the game so I don't have to do it."
There's no reason PvPers should need to spend hours picking flowers to be competitive in PvP.
The way to do it is to increase supply.
Simply introduce an amount or supply of said materials which will render the high price null and void, driving prices down
Zodiarkslayer wrote: »... I really didn't realize there were "megamillionaires" with that sort of gold....
There are. I know several who are at the gold cap, that is the maximum amount of gold a character and the bank can hold.
Look for the GMs of trade guilds and clans. Most have several accounts to mange their amounts of gold.
In terms of numbers take 2.1 billon multiplied by number of characters plus one for the bank. So, 44.1 billon per account.
The way to do it is to increase supply.
Simply introduce an amount or supply of said materials which will render the high price null and void, driving prices down
Anyone had a look at the contents of their Anniversary Gift boxes?
... increased supplies of said materials.
So can we stop all the whingeing now? You got what you asked for.