Two things I am growing to dispise.

TaSheen

Elvenheart wrote: »

LadyLavina wrote: »

KaosWarMonk wrote: »

Options should be in place so as we're able to solo all content.

While that would be nice, if it scaled in such a way that you could,

It would also run counter to the spirit of an MMO.

A new feature that just came out in WoW IS this. Up to three temporary npc companions can join certain four-man dungeons. I think there plans to finally expand the new system to older dungeons eventually.

Yes. Daughter and SIL are very happy with this. I don't play that game any more (not since 2013, and not ever going back) but they seem quite happy about it.

Neither of them (nor my granddaughters) have ever had any real interest in ESO (despite all of them having beta access - alpha invites IIRC).

Still not interested in WoW myself any more....

barney2525

Only two?

barney2525

Easy fix. In gym class we used to call it 'touching the wall'. Two teams in competition, they run, run, run, all have to touch the wall at the end. first team that everyone touches, wins.

So section each part of the dungeon, basically put a door/wall etc to the next part. EVERYONE has to touch the wall/trigger and select 'E'. Once Everyone has, they access to the next part. Players can stop, do chests, do quests, etc, all while reading the abusive chat from those who don't care about chests or quests.

colossalvoids

barney2525 wrote: »

Easy fix. In gym class we used to call it 'touching the wall'. Two teams in competition, they run, run, run, all have to touch the wall at the end. first team that everyone touches, wins.

So section each part of the dungeon, basically put a door/wall etc to the next part. EVERYONE has to touch the wall/trigger and select 'E'. Once Everyone has, they access to the next part. Players can stop, do chests, do quests, etc, all while reading the abusive chat from those who don't care about chests or quests.

It was discussed to death already, no one wants and no one would benefit from such fixes. Game is buggy, you're always in combat, people got dced, people grieve because they love to, people don't care about others generally so would loot every barrel and let the team's scrolls expire or their play time, whichever had less time supply.

It's a recipe for real disaster, that's why they've made a change to the dungeons porting people further, not backwards to the lonely quest guy. The aim is completion, not the backward direction.

Trejgon

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm way more bothered by the Sorcerer's flappy.

Amazing how they don't ever tire - but only the player summoned ones, the twilights in the wild have shown they do prefer to land, when not actively engaged in combat

Elyu

Having been on both sides of the equation (high level, good gear, running for crystals VS low level, bad gear, running for quest) I'd say the problem absolutely goes both ways.

Solution? = Communication and respect

If you're speed running for transmutes and someone has quest - wait for them to complete dialogue before aggroing next mob pack.

If you're a low level there for the quest - follow along and don't aggro unnecessarily (skip mob packs that the higher level players skip etc)

Treasure chests? Not worth the time. Speed runners usually after the transmutes...which you can't get from the chests!

Shagreth

So now we are discriminating against Arcanist players? This community, I swear.

Look, from a design perspective I also disagree with the existence of Oakensoul and Arcanist, but they exist -- and it enables people to participate in content they couldn't before. At least with Oakensoul there is an alternative, which is not to use it. Arcanist makes me sad, because I love the concept but hate how mind numbingly boring the rotation and feel of the class is.

tldr: ZOS design philosophy is all over the place, don't hate the player

no1care

Sometimes the speed running bothers me too regardless of whether or not I have the skill point already. But at the same time, I do understand why people do it especially if they have been there many times and are just farming (either gear, a random for transmutes or whatever else) which other people commented on already. I get that it seems "rude", but it's also a waste of personal time (takes away from reaching goals) and can be practically mind numbing to wait around multiple times per day.

So the problem is really the design of it. You have people trying to accomplish different types of tasks together, but they are somewhat incompatible.
Task 1: Random dungeon (transmute) / gear farmers: trying to speed through, sometimes on multiple characters. Repetitive task that they just want over quickly.
Task 2: New players, maybe someone who even expects to read the quest dialog and explore the dungeon a bit. Doesn't understand task 1, and tends to blames the other players for being ***.
Task 3: Not-so-new players who already know about Task 1, but while trying to pick up or rush through the quest dialog just to get the skill point, sometimes can't.

Sure, asking the group to slow down might sometimes work because people in Task 1 feel guilty, but that's not a great option either.

I think there are a few ways to approach this.

Suggestion 1: Make the dungeon questions automatically share and complete each step along the way, regardless of if someone talks to the NPC. Even turning in it could be automatic for the most part, or have a backup NPC somewhere (in the beginning of, or outside of the dungeon) so people can turn it in easier (by teleporting there) in case they forgot. This generally helps solve the problem for Task 3, and actually helps Task 1 (on alts etc.) as well by saving time and removing any worries/guilt about it.

Suggestion 2: for Task 2, people who want to go slower. I definitely would suggest the new Group Finder or joining a guild or such for people interested in doing these things, since it just isn't compatible at all.

However, I wonder if some feature can be added to sort out questers who want to read dialog (explorers) / newcomers that would put them in a seperate queue with that intention? "Take it slow" checkmark? Not sure exactly, but really something like that might work for people who just want quest, learn, or be more casual about it in general.

(I do understand that sometimes the queue for dungeons is slow in general, but honestly the biggest problem I see with the dungeon finder is that it's still very broken after years. I feel like I have to fight it and requeue several times even if I am solo, or with different types of roles leading the group if not solo)

Perhaps you could also make soloing/duoing the normal dungeons easier to access for such players; e.g. "join solo / join with only my current group" with no queue at all. Almost all of the normal dungeons can be soloed rather easily at some point, but I do imagine some newer players struggling without a little help in the group, especially on the DLCs.

*** At the very least, the game could suggest using the Group Finder for casual / quest mode. ***

garir_komes_molroy

Time is a valuable resource, and some people don't have time to wait for someone to read the assignments. There is only one way out (as I see it): either ask someone (a friend, acquaintance, or someone from the guild) to come with you so that you complete quests without haste, I do not take into account NPC companions, they are mostly useless, or hope for luck that next time there will be no runner in your group.

If you are a kick runner, then the runner can reasonably file a report on you for spoiling the gameplay in passing nRadom and preventing you from obtaining 10 geodes of transmutation

There is no single solution here, you just need ZOS to make a joint daily reward of 10 geodes of transmutation for nRandom and nBG, so if you completed the daily reward on nBG, then for nRandom you did not receive these 10 geodes, this will at least reduce the chance of meeting a pvp runner-a player who needs geodes of transmutation for assembly, but the problem (if there is one) is not destroyed. Some will be offended by others, and vice versa.

Anifaas

Much ado about nothing. Just follow the crowd. If they’re going fast, you should go fast too. You’ll run those same dungeons forever. Skill points are cheap. If you don’t get your dungeon quest/skill point the first time you’ll get it soon enough. Just play the game and you’ll get your rewards.

Running dungeons in record speed is the most typical way dungeons are run in most MMOs. You gotta adapt or do the work by yourself. Ie tanking, soloing the dungeons, or forming your own group. Easy peasy. Random dungeon finder is random therefore you must adapt.

no1care

Anifaas wrote: »

Much ado about nothing. Just follow the crowd. If they’re going fast, you should go fast too. You’ll run those same dungeons forever. Skill points are cheap. If you don’t get your dungeon quest/skill point the first time you’ll get it soon enough. Just play the game and you’ll get your rewards.

Running dungeons in record speed is the most typical way dungeons are run in most MMOs. You gotta adapt or do the work by yourself. Ie tanking, soloing the dungeons, or forming your own group. Easy peasy. Random dungeon finder is random therefore you must adapt.

While I agree with the soloing / forming own group (since I commented on that too): I'm not sure how the tanking part of that would change anything? (Besides faster queue)
Don't need a tank for normals (obviously, if we're talking about soloing),
but even in some vets, the DPS tends to rush ahead of the tank and make all the pulls messy / rushed regardless.

Side, unrelated note/venting: DPS (especially if they can't DPS well and/or die quickly) pulling ahead of tank in vets is the main reason I don't like to tank now. Sometimes I'll just leave the group if they want to pull everything instead of having optimized pulls. Very often those people can't even DPS well (have no rotation at all, no weaving etc.) and it feels painfully slow, but they seem to have some urge to to try rush and pull everything regardless, which is bizarre and actually just makes it slower and more difficult.

drkfrontiers

Speed running through dungeon can be solved auto-resolving skill point after first completion and rewards mailed. Then all can run as per their fancy. Something like the battleground rewards.

MJallday

Alternatively - Count yourself lucky you’re grouped with people who can complete content quickly?

Nothing stopping you coming back

Anumaril

I understand the problem with dungeon speed-runners.

As for the Arcanist bit, I'd recommend you to wait a couple more patches. Usually the shiny new class is super OP when it's first introduced, and then slowly gets nerfed to roughly the same level as other classes. I'm convinced this is intentional to motivate more purchases of the associated Chapter (even World of Warcraft does this). So just give it until a patch or two into the new Chapter and maybe Arcanists will be less like how you describe.

ellmarie

Anifaas wrote: »

Much ado about nothing. Just follow the crowd. If they’re going fast, you should go fast too. You’ll run those same dungeons forever. Skill points are cheap. If you don’t get your dungeon quest/skill point the first time you’ll get it soon enough. Just play the game and you’ll get your rewards.

Running dungeons in record speed is the most typical way dungeons are run in most MMOs. You gotta adapt or do the work by yourself. Ie tanking, soloing the dungeons, or forming your own group. Easy peasy. Random dungeon finder is random therefore you must adapt.

This is what I learned to do. Go with the flow.

Also, I thought random ques were mostly just to quickly get your transmutes. I guess it all depends on who you get with.

carlos424

dmnqwk wrote: »

I've noticed a few people fail to say 'hi, doing quest' at the beginning - which is obviously a bit disturbing they expect 3 other people to read their mind.

I like transmute crystals and with doing about 8 dungeons a day just for those I will do what is necessary to complete the dungeon fairly, which does not include helping someone do a quest they didn't tell me they were doing.

Communication begins with you, not the group - don't complain people can't read your mind

If I’m on a character that has the quest, I’ll usually just try to complete it through the course of the dungeon (not putting it in chat). Sometimes you lag back to talk with someone, but that’s usually the worst part. But as someone who runs dungeons regularly, you can always tell who is doing the quest. I don’t think writing “doing the quest” in chat is a prerequisite for others to slow down or help. Some newer players may not be all that familiar with chat, nor want to ask for special treatment. But I also don’t think people should complain if they didn’t notify the group.

JanTanhide

dk_dunkirk wrote: »

Totally agreed on the running ahead. It's been a couple of years since I went through all the dungeons on my main. Now I'm trying to get skill points on a new toon, and I see how systemic the problem is. I've missed the skill point on 3 or 4 dungeons over the past week because of people selfishly running ahead, and pulling me away from intermediate steps on the quest. I've also forgotten to turn in a few, because everyone bails out immediately, and I hit the "leave instance" button before I realize, but that's on me.

I ran Falkreath yesterday as the pledge, and the "tank" was easily soloing the whole thing. As the healer, I could run through everything with him and stay alive, but it's just super annoying at this point. I asked in group chat why he even bothered with a group, and didn't just walk into the dungeon and solo the stupid thing, but this kind of person doesn't even have the chat window open.

I agree. Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWz4mUV6JbY

Deter1UK

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Sabre wrote: »

Also, the treasure chests are often missed on speed runs.

This is something that irks me. Who doesn’t want more loot? More chances at weapons/jewelry if you’re going for a particular set?

The very impatient people rushing ahead, that’s who. 😒

One solution to all of this is to put the dungeon rewards, keys, transmutes etc - in the chests!
No point in running through if you run past all the stuff you are doing the dungeon for.

katanagirl1

I struggle to get the quests done in a random group, especially the early ones that require you to stand there and wait for the npcs stop yapping before you can talk to them. I get impatient waiting for them. I click as fast as I can and try to keep up. Most of the time letting the group know I am doing the quest does not help.

As for gear farming, I would like to get the chests because you can get sticker book drops from them. With random groups though, it’s rare that they stop. I think they are all just there for the transmutes.

TaSheen

Trejgon wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm way more bothered by the Sorcerer's flappy.

Amazing how they don't ever tire - but only the player summoned ones, the twilights in the wild have shown they do prefer to land, when not actively engaged in combat

Or like the one I saw in Apocrypha the other day - dancing the Alinor Allemande.

xclassgaming

drkfrontiers wrote: »

1. Speed runs in Dungeons: I get that people just want to run and be done. But when they blatantly don't care about the group or whether they still need the skill point (and called it) but aggro everything but ignore pulls and run straight to kill boss while rest of the team has to catch-up while trying to manage all the adds.. [snip]
2. Arcanist visuals & somewhat feeling like an "easy mode" - Disheartening. Put so much work into making my other classes shine. Then there's Arcanist. When I'm not being blinded by lightsaber dualling reminiscent of Yoda bouncing around the Senate Chamber, I honestly think its a class that only needs at best 2-3 abilities (and I'm being liberal when I see how its used). It makes me sad that the ceiling has been lowered to such an extent. I get the accessibility argument, but its a bandwagon everyone will pony-up to. Next time you in Vet Trials take a look at composition.

[edited for baiting]

agreed with the 1st, honestly zos should make fake tanking and fake healing a permanent ban, would fix the problem.

Sabre

Would be fun to be able to try to solo a dungeon with a party of npc companions - that isn't exactly solo, but one would get the idea. Wish companions equipped regular weapons and armor like the player characters rather than the special companion stuff. This would give players more of a reason to use the immense amount of armor sets in the game - and have the npc companions be an actual regular class. Perhaps too much ai to program as far as them using skills etc...but would have been nice.

SerafinaWaterstar

SilverBride wrote: »

I'm way more bothered by the Sorcerer's flappy.

Oh gods yes, and I have one! So annoying! 🤣

SerafinaWaterstar

moo_2021 wrote: »

Most people are doing speed runs.


You can only do the quest once. Whenever a player return again it is either farming, crystal, or pledge. Do the math.

Um, not if you have multiple characters.

PapaTankers

Alright. So if I speed to complete the content as fast as possible because I dont have time to sniff every flower and explore every dialogue then I am the selfish one, not the person that 3 other people are waiting for?

This is a 2 way street.

Instead of pointing fingers towards speedrunners, maybe you should point them towards zenimax instead. Both parties have asked for 10 years to remove the vanilla base game dungeon quests or atleast have them act like dlc dungeon quests, where quest completes upon killing final boss.

AlterBlika

Sabre wrote: »

Would be fun to be able to try to solo a dungeon with a party of npc companions - that isn't exactly solo, but one would get the idea. Wish companions equipped regular weapons and armor like the player characters rather than the special companion stuff. This would give players more of a reason to use the immense amount of armor sets in the game - and have the npc companions be an actual regular class. Perhaps too much ai to program as far as them using skills etc...but would have been nice.

Would be good if we could go get random rewards solo. Still can't see why it isn't happening since you can solo just about everything, even some dlc hardmodes.

colossalvoids

AlterBlika wrote: »

Sabre wrote: »

Would be fun to be able to try to solo a dungeon with a party of npc companions - that isn't exactly solo, but one would get the idea. Wish companions equipped regular weapons and armor like the player characters rather than the special companion stuff. This would give players more of a reason to use the immense amount of armor sets in the game - and have the npc companions be an actual regular class. Perhaps too much ai to program as far as them using skills etc...but would have been nice.

Would be good if we could go get random rewards solo. Still can't see why it isn't happening since you can solo just about everything, even some dlc hardmodes.

That's not happening because this reward is rewarding you for helping out the group finder to fill and players to complete the content faster. It makes no sense having it solo.

AlterBlika

colossalvoids wrote: »

AlterBlika wrote: »

Sabre wrote: »

Would be fun to be able to try to solo a dungeon with a party of npc companions - that isn't exactly solo, but one would get the idea. Wish companions equipped regular weapons and armor like the player characters rather than the special companion stuff. This would give players more of a reason to use the immense amount of armor sets in the game - and have the npc companions be an actual regular class. Perhaps too much ai to program as far as them using skills etc...but would have been nice.

Would be good if we could go get random rewards solo. Still can't see why it isn't happening since you can solo just about everything, even some dlc hardmodes.

That's not happening because this reward is rewarding you for helping out the group finder to fill and players to complete the content faster. It makes no sense having it solo.

Then I fail to see why people keep complaining about fake roles and speedruns

Orbital78

drkfrontiers wrote: »

1. Speed runs in Dungeons: I get that people just want to run and be done. But when they blatantly don't care about the group or whether they still need the skill point (and called it) but aggro everything but ignore pulls and run straight to kill boss while rest of the team has to catch-up while trying to manage all the adds.. [snip]
2. Arcanist visuals & somewhat feeling like an "easy mode" - Disheartening. Put so much work into making my other classes shine. Then there's Arcanist. When I'm not being blinded by lightsaber dualling reminiscent of Yoda bouncing around the Senate Chamber, I honestly think its a class that only needs at best 2-3 abilities (and I'm being liberal when I see how its used). It makes me sad that the ceiling has been lowered to such an extent. I get the accessibility argument, but its a bandwagon everyone will pony-up to. Next time you in Vet Trials take a look at composition.

[edited for baiting]

1) To a point this bothers me as well, like they don't even let you load in before they have started dashing through trash. I understand getting base dungeons for the thousandth time is boring and tedious at times, but you should at least give a few mins to get quests and correct build loadout in case someone was in some sort of solo build etc. Personally if you dash through the mobs and cannot solo them for the most part, then I feel you shouldn't be doing that stuff.

2) I think Arcanist was a great addition, as well as heavy attack builds (RIP AoE). If you do random dungeons enough, you will notice how uneven the playfield is and getting newer (lower end) of the field to a middle ground quicker is all good in my book. There are so many people in the vet queues that are just not ready to dps at those levels these days.

I personally love the graphics and playstyle of the Arcanist, let people enjoy their playstyle and enjoy yours. Arcanists are cleave masters, that is why raid leads want them. Some raid leads specifically don't allow certain builds like heavy attacks now, if they bother you that much you could always use the group finder to find what you want. Personally I would like more love to the other classes though, and more sets that cater to more builds rather than just the old played out light attack meta (ie heavy attack builds). I still haven't put together some of the new DLC dungeon sets yet to play around with them, but two or three look interesting but will have to see how they actually end up performing.

colossalvoids

AlterBlika wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

AlterBlika wrote: »

Sabre wrote: »

Would be fun to be able to try to solo a dungeon with a party of npc companions - that isn't exactly solo, but one would get the idea. Wish companions equipped regular weapons and armor like the player characters rather than the special companion stuff. This would give players more of a reason to use the immense amount of armor sets in the game - and have the npc companions be an actual regular class. Perhaps too much ai to program as far as them using skills etc...but would have been nice.

Would be good if we could go get random rewards solo. Still can't see why it isn't happening since you can solo just about everything, even some dlc hardmodes.

That's not happening because this reward is rewarding you for helping out the group finder to fill and players to complete the content faster. It makes no sense having it solo.

Then I fail to see why people keep complaining about fake roles and speedruns

Not sure why it's hard to grasp that people are selfish and their time is of most value to them than the time of ones around. Also different priorities.