Vampire needs a rework!! Not a Buff!! @ZOS

MaverickConnor22b14_ESO

Ok so seriously yeah it nice that the eviscerate ability can now apply bleed that awesome but it still doesn't help the class at all here why:

first thing first and the most important aspect teh stages of vampire need to be rework immensely, there to much Detrimental effects to make Vampire worth running in any content, yes as a PvP class it good but it not strong it not overwhelming strong or anything if i had to tier it it be a top B tier Build in pvp there just to many ways to kill vampires in pvp seriously it like being a werewolf in pvp with vampire these days.

Back to what i was saying though Stage need a rework more then anything honestly i think the health recovery if anything needs to be lowered a bit if need be but -100 at stage 4 is to much a issue, next up is flame damage this stage effect honestly feel right and i think it need nothing to balance that out it, but it still to Detrimental to what we get for vampire. After which we have Ability cost this is the one that needs a full rework system, simple rework though. Swap the 3 and 5 percent around and make the 8 and 12 - instead of +; Here why vampire of the lamae lineage are believe to be much stronger then the average vampire and are suppose to be shepherds to other vampire per the lore, now we get back to the gameplay, lower the stage of vampire we are the less damage we take but the more are ability cost, but the higher the stage of Vampire the lower are ability cost but the more damage we take. WHICH WILL BALANCE THE HIGH RISK HIGH REWARD EFFECT OF THE CLASS!!! seriously. last is the vampire ability reduction i think this is perfect the way it is. when it comes to the stage the only two stage i feel need a rework is health recovery and ability costage.

Next up is class skills of vampire, as stated above it nice that the eviscerate ability can do bleeds now but honestly that doesn't do much for the class here what needs to be done to make it viable for lasting updates and allow ZoS to not have to constantly rework a class over and over.

1. 1. Eviscerate morphs Blood for blood is fine the way it is seriously need no touching, BUT Arterial burst DOES and it a simple change at that, instead of when YOU are below 50 percent health it Crits, IT should be WHEN Your enemy is below 50 percent health it CRITs, SO simple and it not even OP change just make you decide, more overall damage for high risk or play it safe and do more damage after it reach's a certain health threshold.
2. 2. Frenzy and morphs honestly i Feel these two abilities are in a perfect state and shouldn't be touch i like to say that sated fury should allow you to be healed by other but yeah that make the class to OP. we can all agree to that.
3. 3. Vampire Drain and Morph honestly i have no idea how to rework this but it needs a rework the healing part is fine, the channel is fine, but the damage i feel needs a buff for sure and the morphs the stam regen is ok but the ultimate needs some kind of work i just have no clue were to start with this at all outside of increasing the damage buff. Maybe add a Stun or something like the old ability was
4. 4. Mesmerize and moprhs: as a PvP ability i think this is fine the way it is on both morphs and ability's maybe increase the radius a bit or something but i think it ok, also maybe change were one is more melee focus the other is more range and is more a auto hit so long as they are facing you.
5. 5. MIST FORM NEEDS A REWORKS THE MOST: cant stress this enough the Mist form is a staple to vampires both in real life story's and in game lore, the rework i see be acceptable is simple change the projectile protection to any attack your mist for gods sake, how do you damage mist? Next is the morphs evasive mist is fine and i good the way it is for sure if the do the rework like mention, BUT BLOOD MIST NEEDS A REWORK: One it needs to scale to either your health or magic TWO it needs a larger radius at least double the size.
   
   NOW WE get to Passives this a bit simpler to fix and some that are useless and other that need to go:

   1. 1. Dark Stalker as it is now is fine and doesn't need to be touch what so ever
   2. 2. Strike form the Shadows is viable and fine as a Stage 2 required perk this is fine
   3. 3. Undeath again a viable and decent perk for it stage doesn't need to be touch
   4. 4. UNNATRUAL MOVEMENT: this perk should be combine with Dark stalker and remove form a Stage 4 PERK seriously what were you people thinking placing such a useless perk at stage 4, comparing it effect to the Detrimental status of a S4 Vamp is beyond worthless. Just move it to the Stage 1 effect and combine them, after which make a NEW S$ vamp perk that is equal to a Stage 4 Vamp, some simple ideas i thought of were along the lines of: a perk that reduces the overall amount need to activate Ultimate/ Attacking enemies grants increase health or health over time/ Allows for increase ability damage of vampire ability upwards to 12 or so percent or such.
      Again lore wise lamae vampires are suppose to shepherds to other vampire as were suppose to be stronger and all other vampires are misguided. i mean when i doubt read the lore keep close to it. Now we get to the BIG BOY the Ultimate!!!
      ok so this is the one ability i though was smart but needs fine tuning form what it is and maybe a full ground up rework design on usage:
   5. 1. Swarming Scion Morph is fine out side the fact it needs a damage buff or a reduce cost 315 ULT is to much for a Ult that does the amount of damage it does and at such a lower duration. biggest thing is the duration, needs to be increase or needs to have a add function like werewolfs which when they damage a enemy they increase thier timer pretty much give the timer form werewolf to vampire as well.
   6. 2. Perfect Scion: complete overhaul wont lie this ultimate is straight up useless even with the reworks i explain above, this class needs to allow to summon two vampire follower to your aid like werewolf does with Pack Leader, make them work just like the wolves form pack Leader as well.
      last thing to mention and this is where i get the full overhaul form change the attack of a Scion to be closer in resemblance to Vampire Lord form Skyrim have us change are attack to that and grant it Bleed damage based off of Spell weapon damage, Make Swarming vamp more melee focused so we attack with are hand like a werewolf and perfect scion more range base with teh vamp summons be like the wolves form werewolf. seriously easy fix biggest issue i see is just redesigning the ultimate usage, but the cost needs a reduction for sure or the perk of a stage 4 need to reduce that cost or something but it needs WORK.
      Now everything i just mention pretty much make it safe form most update in the future it will never be the GOTO but it WILL be viable for most in game content both now and in the far future, I ALSO I KNOW THERE WILL BE HATER AND DISLIKER TO THIS i get it ok but am posting this for those who enjoy playing as a Vampire but are tired of the massive detrimental that make playin it even Solo not work it as there no reason to go beyond stage 1 as a vamp and more. Hopefully ZOS listen and reads this as someone who enjoy vampire i though the rework back in greymoor was awesome but it couldn't stand the test of time hopefully these ideas will help you rework it to be a more viable solo class for those that enjoy playin as such.
   
   @ZOS_Kevin,
   @ZOS_Adrikoth
   @ZOS_GinaBruno

Ra'Shtar

That would be rework number 5? At this point it feels like not having 2 different templates, one for pvp and one for pve is just killing the game faster than the aggressive cash grab crown store.

MaverickConnor22b14_ESO

Ra'Shtar wrote: »

That would be rework number 5? At this point it feels like not having 2 different templates, one for pvp and one for pve is just killing the game faster than the aggressive cash grab crown store.

no there only ben a total of 3 reworks, the first one back in the day when all it was, were 2 ability's Mist form and Drain, then like 4 passive then the greymoor Rework five years ago, and apparently there was a third but for the life of me i cant seem to fine this rework seen a few buffs and debuffs but no reworks.

Erickson9610

There are some interesting ideas in here that I hadn't considered. It'd be nice if people used Vampire for more than just the passives. The idea of focusing on making Vampire focused on damage dealing is interesting, and I'd like to offer my thoughts on some of the ideas you've mentioned.

If I reworked Vampire, I'd make their transformation Ultimate a zero-cost toggle, rather than introduce another timer minigame. I'd actually make Werewolf Transformation a zero-cost toggle, too, but keep the existing timer minigame there, because it serves a purpose thematically. Then I'd give both Vampire and Werewolf an in-form Ultimate ability that when used at x or above Ultimate performs some action, but when at below x Ultimate, reverts the form early.

I like the idea of one morph of Blood Scion being used for melee specs with bleed damage, and the other morph being used for ranged specs with pets. While I would like if we could swap between the two morphs in-combat, the way we could toggle between magic/melee modes as the Vampire Lord in TES V: Skyrim, I understand that it may take a fair bit of work to realize in ESO.


Also, once Vampire gets a proper kit, i.e. you could run all Vampire skills without handicapping your build, could we scale the effectiveness of the passives based on how many Vampire skills are slotted? For instance, Undeath, which gives up to 30% Incoming Damage Reduction, should require at least one Vampire ability slotted. Maybe change Undeath to give 5% Incoming Damage Reduction per Vampire ability slotted, up to 30% with all 6 Vampire abilities slotted, or 15% per ability, up to 30% with just 2 Vampire abilities slotted.

People will just hide their skin, never slot any Vampire abilities, and never actually roleplay as a Vampire when they PvP, only feeding on an NPC or drinking Bloody Maras once every 4 hours to preserve their desired Stage. Hopefully some of these proposed ideas make engaging with the Vampire skill line more rewarding and necessary.

Panderbander

Erickson9610 wrote: »

There are some interesting ideas in here that I hadn't considered. It'd be nice if people used Vampire for more than just the passives. The idea of focusing on making Vampire focused on damage dealing is interesting, and I'd like to offer my thoughts on some of the ideas you've mentioned.

If I reworked Vampire, I'd make their transformation Ultimate a zero-cost toggle, rather than introduce another timer minigame. I'd actually make Werewolf Transformation a zero-cost toggle, too, but keep the existing timer minigame there, because it serves a purpose thematically. Then I'd give both Vampire and Werewolf an in-form Ultimate ability that when used at x or above Ultimate performs some action, but when at below x Ultimate, reverts the form early.

I like the idea of one morph of Blood Scion being used for melee specs with bleed damage, and the other morph being used for ranged specs with pets. While I would like if we could swap between the two morphs in-combat, the way we could toggle between magic/melee modes as the Vampire Lord in TES V: Skyrim, I understand that it may take a fair bit of work to realize in ESO.


Also, once Vampire gets a proper kit, i.e. you could run all Vampire skills without handicapping your build, could we scale the effectiveness of the passives based on how many Vampire skills are slotted? For instance, Undeath, which gives up to 30% Incoming Damage Reduction, should require at least one Vampire ability slotted. Maybe change Undeath to give 5% Incoming Damage Reduction per Vampire ability slotted, up to 30% with all 6 Vampire abilities slotted, or 15% per ability, up to 30% with just 2 Vampire abilities slotted.

People will just hide their skin, never slot any Vampire abilities, and never actually roleplay as a Vampire when they PvP, only feeding on an NPC or drinking Bloody Maras once every 4 hours to preserve their desired Stage. Hopefully some of these proposed ideas make engaging with the Vampire skill line more rewarding and necessary.

The idea of making werewolf a toggle but also having a timer minigame is at odds with itself. What is the point of randomly forcing you out of form if you can just hop right back in at no cost, other than to give a weak spec another weakness in additional vulnerability windows while transforming? The timer and associated ultimate cost needs to go, it's just bad design and poor play and really just turns things that are minor inconveniences to everyone else into major stressors for werewolf players (ie dying in IC with no districts, running between fights in Cyrodiil, or waiting between pulls in trials and dungeons) without adding any real flavor or interest to the class.

As for vampires, a rework of the skills is definitely necessary but there is currently no world in which vampires aren't top-tier in PVP for the simple fact that Undeath alone negates every weakness vampires have and then some. It is mandatory at this point. To compare it to werewolves (a spec that has no ability to overcome shortcomings with other abilities and has a severe limitation on builds and possible sets it can proc) is disingenuous.

JerBearESO

The only thing I want besides undeath nerf is a lock stage feature. I hate having to micromanage the stage I need....

Oh and losing health regen is kinda lame as a drawback because maybe I want to take Sithis mythic and not lose those stats? Different drawback please....

xDeusEJRx

The only skill that needs to be reworked imo is Mesmerize and morphs.

The stun on the skill does not function 100% of the time due to a major oversight by the devs. The stun on mesmerize only works if the target is facing towards you, the stun does not work omnidirectionally, even though the visual effect is omnidirectional around the character.

I've tried to play around with mesmerize in duels and it is completely 50/50 on whether or not it stuns or it completely wastes your magicka, the stun ONLY works if the target is facing you directly which is completely unreliable for PVP. Resource sustain is king in PVP and having a skill that only works half of the time will kill your sustain and won't be viable to PVP with.

So IMO they need to completely rework mesmerize skill and fix that major flaw it has, I'm not sure how the devs never noticed that.

They could also fix the clunkiness of Mist form. I find at times the skill double casts even without me registering a second cast of mist form. The game confuses other skills as me using mist form and then recasts mist form instead.

Other than that I think vampire is fine as is

Also nerf undeath.

Erickson9610

Panderbander wrote: »

show previous quotes

Erickson9610 wrote: »

There are some interesting ideas in here that I hadn't considered. It'd be nice if people used Vampire for more than just the passives. The idea of focusing on making Vampire focused on damage dealing is interesting, and I'd like to offer my thoughts on some of the ideas you've mentioned.

If I reworked Vampire, I'd make their transformation Ultimate a zero-cost toggle, rather than introduce another timer minigame. I'd actually make Werewolf Transformation a zero-cost toggle, too, but keep the existing timer minigame there, because it serves a purpose thematically. Then I'd give both Vampire and Werewolf an in-form Ultimate ability that when used at x or above Ultimate performs some action, but when at below x Ultimate, reverts the form early.

I like the idea of one morph of Blood Scion being used for melee specs with bleed damage, and the other morph being used for ranged specs with pets. While I would like if we could swap between the two morphs in-combat, the way we could toggle between magic/melee modes as the Vampire Lord in TES V: Skyrim, I understand that it may take a fair bit of work to realize in ESO.


Also, once Vampire gets a proper kit, i.e. you could run all Vampire skills without handicapping your build, could we scale the effectiveness of the passives based on how many Vampire skills are slotted? For instance, Undeath, which gives up to 30% Incoming Damage Reduction, should require at least one Vampire ability slotted. Maybe change Undeath to give 5% Incoming Damage Reduction per Vampire ability slotted, up to 30% with all 6 Vampire abilities slotted, or 15% per ability, up to 30% with just 2 Vampire abilities slotted.

People will just hide their skin, never slot any Vampire abilities, and never actually roleplay as a Vampire when they PvP, only feeding on an NPC or drinking Bloody Maras once every 4 hours to preserve their desired Stage. Hopefully some of these proposed ideas make engaging with the Vampire skill line more rewarding and necessary.

The idea of making werewolf a toggle but also having a timer minigame is at odds with itself. What is the point of randomly forcing you out of form if you can just hop right back in at no cost, other than to give a weak spec another weakness in additional vulnerability windows while transforming? The timer and associated ultimate cost needs to go, it's just bad design and poor play and really just turns things that are minor inconveniences to everyone else into major stressors for werewolf players (ie dying in IC with no districts, running between fights in Cyrodiil, or waiting between pulls in trials and dungeons) without adding any real flavor or interest to the class.

As for vampires, a rework of the skills is definitely necessary but there is currently no world in which vampires aren't top-tier in PVP for the simple fact that Undeath alone negates every weakness vampires have and then some. It is mandatory at this point. To compare it to werewolves (a spec that has no ability to overcome shortcomings with other abilities and has a severe limitation on builds and possible sets it can proc) is disingenuous.

I don't like micromanaging the Werewolf Transformation timer, but the reason it's there is to not only incentive werewolves grouping together, but to also force Werewolf players to act erratically, trying to maintain their timer by any means possible, else the werewolf roleplay "fails" by means of losing form. The point of the timer is to force players to act like werewolves, because TES werewolves group up and are constantly on the hunt — they don't have much time to stop killing things.

The idea behind keeping the timer while also removing the cost of transformation would be to make it easier for a player to become a werewolf in the first place. It's ridiculous that all these NPCs act like the curse is uncontrollable when the player has to go out of their way to use it in the first place. Maybe if the timer minigame was replaced with a buff to some other stat, then it could be replaced — currently, it serves to reinforce the roleplay fantasy of TES werewolves acting in a particular manner.

Araneae6537

What about get rid of both Undeath and the cost/recovery penalties? Including in ESO lore, aren’t vampires supposed to recover better from most injuries? Plus, this would make vampire viable for PvE and no longer requisite for PvP. I think the stealth related bonuses are fine. I think mesmerize is fine — it makes sense that it only works on creatures facing you and is a useful stun. I would really like an ultimate that summoned a bat swarm without the monstrosity transformation — many vampires in ESO have bat and mist form abilities and don’t turn into one of Lady Thorn’s monstrosities and I would like the same.

I think that as long as vampire has passives that effect recoveries and total damage taken, they are going to be a handicap for some content and near requisite for other. I think it would be better with a small boost to health recovery and weakness to fire to give flavor but not be a greater advantage or disadvantage than race choice.

merpins

ESO Players: Nerf the only good thing about this thing!

I get it. But the class itself should be somewhat good before they remove the only decent thing about it.

Erickson9610

merpins wrote: »

ESO Players: Nerf the only good thing about this thing!

I get it. But the class itself should be somewhat good before they remove the only decent thing about it.

Vampire needs to be more active rather than passive. That's why I think the passive benefits of Vampire, like Undeath, should require Vampire abilities slotted. Most other skill lines have some passive that requires active abilities to be slotted — notable examples include class and guild passives. Passives like Concentrated Barrier require at least one Psijic Order skill slotted, and other passives increase their effectiveness based on the number of skills from that skill line that are slotted, like how the passive Slayer increases WD/SD by 3% per Fighters Guild ability slotted.

If we're comparing Vampire to Werewolf, all of Werewolf's passives only work while in Werewolf form, which requires the Ultimate skill to be slotted and used, while Vampire's passives all require a particular Stage — it does not involve the use of active abilities at all. Given that you have 4 hours on each Stage, and it can be refreshed by using consumable drinks, the required roleplaying of Vampire for their passives is little more than simply refreshing a buff, akin to eating food/drink every hour to refresh that buff.


Of course, Vampire needs to actually be reworked so that its abilities are worth slotting. I wouldn't want to ruin the positive aspects of Vampire and give them nothing in return.

Jammy420

Erickson9610 wrote: »

show previous quotes

merpins wrote: »

ESO Players: Nerf the only good thing about this thing!

I get it. But the class itself should be somewhat good before they remove the only decent thing about it.

Vampire needs to be more active rather than passive. That's why I think the passive benefits of Vampire, like Undeath, should require Vampire abilities slotted. Most other skill lines have some passive that requires active abilities to be slotted — notable examples include class and guild passives. Passives like Concentrated Barrier require at least one Psijic Order skill slotted, and other passives increase their effectiveness based on the number of skills from that skill line that are slotted, like how the passive Slayer increases WD/SD by 3% per Fighters Guild ability slotted.

If we're comparing Vampire to Werewolf, all of Werewolf's passives only work while in Werewolf form, which requires the Ultimate skill to be slotted and used, while Vampire's passives all require a particular Stage — it does not involve the use of active abilities at all. Given that you have 4 hours on each Stage, and it can be refreshed by using consumable drinks, the required roleplaying of Vampire for their passives is little more than simply refreshing a buff, akin to eating food/drink every hour to refresh that buff.


Of course, Vampire needs to actually be reworked so that its abilities are worth slotting. I wouldn't want to ruin the positive aspects of Vampire and give them nothing in return.

Vamp players do not use pure vamp builds because 2 or 3 of the skills are so buggy its absurd. Not for any other reason.

The stun is extremely unreliable
The beam skills are COMPLETELY useless
And after the nerf to blood frenzy, even that skill is meh

These were all issues that were touched on by the community -in length- on the pts during the "ReVamp". Absolutely no one listened.

Lets not even begin to discuss the invis issue in pvp for vamps. You have to sprint 6-12 seconds sometimes instead of the stated 3 due to lag.

Vamp does not need another full rework. It just needs some balancing. For example undeath needs to be stage 4, that would immediately reduce the amount of vamps using it only for the undeath passive, and the passives from stage 4, need to be moved to stage 3. It really is a simple fix.

Erickson9610

Jammy420 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Erickson9610 wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

ESO Players: Nerf the only good thing about this thing!

I get it. But the class itself should be somewhat good before they remove the only decent thing about it.

Vampire needs to be more active rather than passive. That's why I think the passive benefits of Vampire, like Undeath, should require Vampire abilities slotted. Most other skill lines have some passive that requires active abilities to be slotted — notable examples include class and guild passives. Passives like Concentrated Barrier require at least one Psijic Order skill slotted, and other passives increase their effectiveness based on the number of skills from that skill line that are slotted, like how the passive Slayer increases WD/SD by 3% per Fighters Guild ability slotted.

If we're comparing Vampire to Werewolf, all of Werewolf's passives only work while in Werewolf form, which requires the Ultimate skill to be slotted and used, while Vampire's passives all require a particular Stage — it does not involve the use of active abilities at all. Given that you have 4 hours on each Stage, and it can be refreshed by using consumable drinks, the required roleplaying of Vampire for their passives is little more than simply refreshing a buff, akin to eating food/drink every hour to refresh that buff.


Of course, Vampire needs to actually be reworked so that its abilities are worth slotting. I wouldn't want to ruin the positive aspects of Vampire and give them nothing in return.

Vamp players do not use pure vamp builds because 2 or 3 of the skills are so buggy its absurd. Not for any other reason.

The stun is extremely unreliable
The beam skills are COMPLETELY useless
And after the nerf to blood frenzy, even that skill is meh

These were all issues that were touched on by the community -in length- on the pts during the "ReVamp". Absolutely no one listened.

Lets not even begin to discuss the invis issue in pvp for vamps. You have to sprint 6-12 seconds sometimes instead of the stated 3 due to lag.

Vamp does not need another full rework. It just needs some balancing. For example undeath needs to be stage 4, that would immediately reduce the amount of vamps using it only for the undeath passive, and the passives from stage 4, need to be moved to stage 3. It really is a simple fix.

I used Undeath as an example of a Vampire passive skill, since it seems to be a very hot topic. In reality, all Vampire passives should require the use of Vampire active abilities.

I have my doubts that moving Undeath to Stage 4 would "fix" anything. I'm more concerned about fixing the roleplaying factor — players shouldn't get Vampire passives if they go out of their way to never engage with it. As a tradeoff, those buggy Vampire abilities should be fixed and balanced, so that Vampire players want to use them.

GrizzlyTank

Just picked up some vampirism.

Quite disappointed in the lack of racially themed vampire form. Necro got racial golems so give Vamps the same!

Jammy420

Erickson9610 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Jammy420 wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

ESO Players: Nerf the only good thing about this thing!

I get it. But the class itself should be somewhat good before they remove the only decent thing about it.

Vampire needs to be more active rather than passive. That's why I think the passive benefits of Vampire, like Undeath, should require Vampire abilities slotted. Most other skill lines have some passive that requires active abilities to be slotted — notable examples include class and guild passives. Passives like Concentrated Barrier require at least one Psijic Order skill slotted, and other passives increase their effectiveness based on the number of skills from that skill line that are slotted, like how the passive Slayer increases WD/SD by 3% per Fighters Guild ability slotted.

If we're comparing Vampire to Werewolf, all of Werewolf's passives only work while in Werewolf form, which requires the Ultimate skill to be slotted and used, while Vampire's passives all require a particular Stage — it does not involve the use of active abilities at all. Given that you have 4 hours on each Stage, and it can be refreshed by using consumable drinks, the required roleplaying of Vampire for their passives is little more than simply refreshing a buff, akin to eating food/drink every hour to refresh that buff.


Of course, Vampire needs to actually be reworked so that its abilities are worth slotting. I wouldn't want to ruin the positive aspects of Vampire and give them nothing in return.

Vamp players do not use pure vamp builds because 2 or 3 of the skills are so buggy its absurd. Not for any other reason.

The stun is extremely unreliable
The beam skills are COMPLETELY useless
And after the nerf to blood frenzy, even that skill is meh

These were all issues that were touched on by the community -in length- on the pts during the "ReVamp". Absolutely no one listened.

Lets not even begin to discuss the invis issue in pvp for vamps. You have to sprint 6-12 seconds sometimes instead of the stated 3 due to lag.

Vamp does not need another full rework. It just needs some balancing. For example undeath needs to be stage 4, that would immediately reduce the amount of vamps using it only for the undeath passive, and the passives from stage 4, need to be moved to stage 3. It really is a simple fix.

I used Undeath as an example of a Vampire passive skill, since it seems to be a very hot topic. In reality, all Vampire passives should require the use of Vampire active abilities.

I have my doubts that moving Undeath to Stage 4 would "fix" anything. I'm more concerned about fixing the roleplaying factor — players shouldn't get Vampire passives if they go out of their way to never engage with it. As a tradeoff, those buggy Vampire abilities should be fixed and balanced, so that Vampire players want to use them.

Im sorry, but tacking an unwanted change, again, to vampires being balanced properly is an extremely toxic way of game development. Yes, people would stop, because you have absolutely no health regen, and your fire damage is insane, plus the cost increase is significant at lvl 4. Vampires in TES lore are EXTREMELY flexible and diverse, requiring you to turn into a blood fiend when turning into a vampire, flies completely in the face of lore and the goal of " play how you want ".

I played since beta, when the negative tradeoffs were high enough for lvl 4, people playing simply for the passives jumped ship very quickly. It happened before, and it would happen again. We just need proper, incremental changes. Not knee jerk reactions and a return to the drawing board for a THIRD time.

GrizzlyTank wrote: »

Just picked up some vampirism.

Quite disappointed in the lack of racially themed vampire form. Necro got racial golems so give Vamps the same!

This was addressed during the revamp years back, at first there wasnt even a difference between the male and female models.

Erickson9610

Jammy420 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

ESO Players: Nerf the only good thing about this thing!

I get it. But the class itself should be somewhat good before they remove the only decent thing about it.

Vampire needs to be more active rather than passive. That's why I think the passive benefits of Vampire, like Undeath, should require Vampire abilities slotted. Most other skill lines have some passive that requires active abilities to be slotted — notable examples include class and guild passives. Passives like Concentrated Barrier require at least one Psijic Order skill slotted, and other passives increase their effectiveness based on the number of skills from that skill line that are slotted, like how the passive Slayer increases WD/SD by 3% per Fighters Guild ability slotted.

If we're comparing Vampire to Werewolf, all of Werewolf's passives only work while in Werewolf form, which requires the Ultimate skill to be slotted and used, while Vampire's passives all require a particular Stage — it does not involve the use of active abilities at all. Given that you have 4 hours on each Stage, and it can be refreshed by using consumable drinks, the required roleplaying of Vampire for their passives is little more than simply refreshing a buff, akin to eating food/drink every hour to refresh that buff.


Of course, Vampire needs to actually be reworked so that its abilities are worth slotting. I wouldn't want to ruin the positive aspects of Vampire and give them nothing in return.

Vamp players do not use pure vamp builds because 2 or 3 of the skills are so buggy its absurd. Not for any other reason.

The stun is extremely unreliable
The beam skills are COMPLETELY useless
And after the nerf to blood frenzy, even that skill is meh

These were all issues that were touched on by the community -in length- on the pts during the "ReVamp". Absolutely no one listened.

Lets not even begin to discuss the invis issue in pvp for vamps. You have to sprint 6-12 seconds sometimes instead of the stated 3 due to lag.

Vamp does not need another full rework. It just needs some balancing. For example undeath needs to be stage 4, that would immediately reduce the amount of vamps using it only for the undeath passive, and the passives from stage 4, need to be moved to stage 3. It really is a simple fix.

I used Undeath as an example of a Vampire passive skill, since it seems to be a very hot topic. In reality, all Vampire passives should require the use of Vampire active abilities.

I have my doubts that moving Undeath to Stage 4 would "fix" anything. I'm more concerned about fixing the roleplaying factor — players shouldn't get Vampire passives if they go out of their way to never engage with it. As a tradeoff, those buggy Vampire abilities should be fixed and balanced, so that Vampire players want to use them.

Im sorry, but tacking an unwanted change, again, to vampires being balanced properly is an extremely toxic way of game development. Yes, people would stop, because you have absolutely no health regen, and your fire damage is insane, plus the cost increase is significant at lvl 4. Vampires in TES lore are EXTREMELY flexible and diverse, requiring you to turn into a blood fiend when turning into a vampire, flies completely in the face of lore and the goal of " play how you want ".

I played since beta, when the negative tradeoffs were high enough for lvl 4, people playing simply for the passives jumped ship very quickly. It happened before, and it would happen again. We just need proper, incremental changes. Not knee jerk reactions and a return to the drawing board for a THIRD time.

The point of my suggestion about requiring Vampire skills to be slotted isn't to balance Vampire in PvE/PvP. It is purely for reestablishing the roleplay factor. Completely disregard balance concerns about Undeath for a moment — just require some Vampire abilities (at least one on the active bar) to be slotted for any Vampire passive to work.

What's there to incentivize vampires to roleplay as vampires? They're no different from mortals when they hide their skin with skins from the Collections menu and never even use Vampire abilities. People should use Vampire skills instead of only using the skill line for the passives while pretending not to be a vampire — the skills should be balanced and buffed for this purpose. Maybe the appearance should get an overhaul so that people will be less inclined to hide the vampire skin, which people often cite as too ugly to wear (why take on a curse if it's too ugly for you?)

Meanwhile, werewolves have to engage with a timer minigame — which both incentivizes them to group with others and always be looking for prey to kill and devour — in addition to being forced to use only Werewolf skills and have the werewolf appearance, in order to use any Werewolf passives. For Werewolf, there simply is no option to use the skill line passively while pretending not to be a werewolf — as such, the roleplay factor is tightly enforced, because people play Werewolf in a way that's consistent with how TES werewolves operate.


If Vampire was redesigned, it should require vampires to act like vampires, the way Werewolf requires werewolves to act like werewolves. Otherwise, Vampire will continue to be just another skill line taken for the passives, regardless of how buffed/nerfed the passives are, and only the most dedicated of Vampire players will actually roleplay as vampires.

dragonlord500

According to Zos they are pretty much done with the vampires. (just minor tweaks here and there)

Erickson9610

dragonlord500 wrote: »

According to Zos they are pretty much done with the vampires. (just minor tweaks here and there)

Where have they said this? I hope this isn't the case for Werewolf as well. Honestly, both Werewolf and Vampire could use a significant rework or buff. They fall behind significantly in PvE, while at least Vampire has its uses in PvP. The "minor tweak" that Vampire and Werewolf had to their skills in Update 41 (Eviscerate and Pounce) was the result of status effects being changed — though it's nice that they were remembered and given that buff at all. I'd like to know when Werewolf and Vampire will receive any more significant changes.

Jammy420

Erickson9610 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Jammy420 wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

ESO Players: Nerf the only good thing about this thing!

I get it. But the class itself should be somewhat good before they remove the only decent thing about it.

Vampire needs to be more active rather than passive. That's why I think the passive benefits of Vampire, like Undeath, should require Vampire abilities slotted. Most other skill lines have some passive that requires active abilities to be slotted — notable examples include class and guild passives. Passives like Concentrated Barrier require at least one Psijic Order skill slotted, and other passives increase their effectiveness based on the number of skills from that skill line that are slotted, like how the passive Slayer increases WD/SD by 3% per Fighters Guild ability slotted.

If we're comparing Vampire to Werewolf, all of Werewolf's passives only work while in Werewolf form, which requires the Ultimate skill to be slotted and used, while Vampire's passives all require a particular Stage — it does not involve the use of active abilities at all. Given that you have 4 hours on each Stage, and it can be refreshed by using consumable drinks, the required roleplaying of Vampire for their passives is little more than simply refreshing a buff, akin to eating food/drink every hour to refresh that buff.


Of course, Vampire needs to actually be reworked so that its abilities are worth slotting. I wouldn't want to ruin the positive aspects of Vampire and give them nothing in return.

Vamp players do not use pure vamp builds because 2 or 3 of the skills are so buggy its absurd. Not for any other reason.

The stun is extremely unreliable
The beam skills are COMPLETELY useless
And after the nerf to blood frenzy, even that skill is meh

These were all issues that were touched on by the community -in length- on the pts during the "ReVamp". Absolutely no one listened.

Lets not even begin to discuss the invis issue in pvp for vamps. You have to sprint 6-12 seconds sometimes instead of the stated 3 due to lag.

Vamp does not need another full rework. It just needs some balancing. For example undeath needs to be stage 4, that would immediately reduce the amount of vamps using it only for the undeath passive, and the passives from stage 4, need to be moved to stage 3. It really is a simple fix.

I used Undeath as an example of a Vampire passive skill, since it seems to be a very hot topic. In reality, all Vampire passives should require the use of Vampire active abilities.

I have my doubts that moving Undeath to Stage 4 would "fix" anything. I'm more concerned about fixing the roleplaying factor — players shouldn't get Vampire passives if they go out of their way to never engage with it. As a tradeoff, those buggy Vampire abilities should be fixed and balanced, so that Vampire players want to use them.

Im sorry, but tacking an unwanted change, again, to vampires being balanced properly is an extremely toxic way of game development. Yes, people would stop, because you have absolutely no health regen, and your fire damage is insane, plus the cost increase is significant at lvl 4. Vampires in TES lore are EXTREMELY flexible and diverse, requiring you to turn into a blood fiend when turning into a vampire, flies completely in the face of lore and the goal of " play how you want ".

I played since beta, when the negative tradeoffs were high enough for lvl 4, people playing simply for the passives jumped ship very quickly. It happened before, and it would happen again. We just need proper, incremental changes. Not knee jerk reactions and a return to the drawing board for a THIRD time.

The point of my suggestion about requiring Vampire skills to be slotted isn't to balance Vampire in PvE/PvP. It is purely for reestablishing the roleplay factor. Completely disregard balance concerns about Undeath for a moment — just require some Vampire abilities (at least one on the active bar) to be slotted for any Vampire passive to work.

What's there to incentivize vampires to roleplay as vampires? They're no different from mortals when they hide their skin with skins from the Collections menu and never even use Vampire abilities. People should use Vampire skills instead of only using the skill line for the passives while pretending not to be a vampire — the skills should be balanced and buffed for this purpose. Maybe the appearance should get an overhaul so that people will be less inclined to hide the vampire skin, which people often cite as too ugly to wear (why take on a curse if it's too ugly for you?)

Meanwhile, werewolves have to engage with a timer minigame — which both incentivizes them to group with others and always be looking for prey to kill and devour — in addition to being forced to use only Werewolf skills and have the werewolf appearance, in order to use any Werewolf passives. For Werewolf, there simply is no option to use the skill line passively while pretending not to be a werewolf — as such, the roleplay factor is tightly enforced, because people play Werewolf in a way that's consistent with how TES werewolves operate.


If Vampire was redesigned, it should require vampires to act like vampires, the way Werewolf requires werewolves to act like werewolves. Otherwise, Vampire will continue to be just another skill line taken for the passives, regardless of how buffed/nerfed the passives are, and only the most dedicated of Vampire players will actually roleplay as vampires.

In TES lore vampires are masters of disguise and illusion in some places, in some not, it really depends on the line of vampires, and of course they do not play like werewolves, vamps are not blood fiends, they should never try to treat the two the same because it is two completely different things. I have been here long enough to experience the multiple different iterations of vampire, what we have now is fine. It just needs a small tweak here and there. We dont need three revamps.

The second vamp was made more about the class in the past, the less people who used it for the passive used it. It only became just about the passive again because they watered the archetype down. Thats it.

Erickson9610

Jammy420 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Jammy420 wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

merpins wrote: »

ESO Players: Nerf the only good thing about this thing!

I get it. But the class itself should be somewhat good before they remove the only decent thing about it.

Vampire needs to be more active rather than passive. That's why I think the passive benefits of Vampire, like Undeath, should require Vampire abilities slotted. Most other skill lines have some passive that requires active abilities to be slotted — notable examples include class and guild passives. Passives like Concentrated Barrier require at least one Psijic Order skill slotted, and other passives increase their effectiveness based on the number of skills from that skill line that are slotted, like how the passive Slayer increases WD/SD by 3% per Fighters Guild ability slotted.

If we're comparing Vampire to Werewolf, all of Werewolf's passives only work while in Werewolf form, which requires the Ultimate skill to be slotted and used, while Vampire's passives all require a particular Stage — it does not involve the use of active abilities at all. Given that you have 4 hours on each Stage, and it can be refreshed by using consumable drinks, the required roleplaying of Vampire for their passives is little more than simply refreshing a buff, akin to eating food/drink every hour to refresh that buff.


Of course, Vampire needs to actually be reworked so that its abilities are worth slotting. I wouldn't want to ruin the positive aspects of Vampire and give them nothing in return.

Vamp players do not use pure vamp builds because 2 or 3 of the skills are so buggy its absurd. Not for any other reason.

The stun is extremely unreliable
The beam skills are COMPLETELY useless
And after the nerf to blood frenzy, even that skill is meh

These were all issues that were touched on by the community -in length- on the pts during the "ReVamp". Absolutely no one listened.

Lets not even begin to discuss the invis issue in pvp for vamps. You have to sprint 6-12 seconds sometimes instead of the stated 3 due to lag.

Vamp does not need another full rework. It just needs some balancing. For example undeath needs to be stage 4, that would immediately reduce the amount of vamps using it only for the undeath passive, and the passives from stage 4, need to be moved to stage 3. It really is a simple fix.

I used Undeath as an example of a Vampire passive skill, since it seems to be a very hot topic. In reality, all Vampire passives should require the use of Vampire active abilities.

I have my doubts that moving Undeath to Stage 4 would "fix" anything. I'm more concerned about fixing the roleplaying factor — players shouldn't get Vampire passives if they go out of their way to never engage with it. As a tradeoff, those buggy Vampire abilities should be fixed and balanced, so that Vampire players want to use them.

Im sorry, but tacking an unwanted change, again, to vampires being balanced properly is an extremely toxic way of game development. Yes, people would stop, because you have absolutely no health regen, and your fire damage is insane, plus the cost increase is significant at lvl 4. Vampires in TES lore are EXTREMELY flexible and diverse, requiring you to turn into a blood fiend when turning into a vampire, flies completely in the face of lore and the goal of " play how you want ".

I played since beta, when the negative tradeoffs were high enough for lvl 4, people playing simply for the passives jumped ship very quickly. It happened before, and it would happen again. We just need proper, incremental changes. Not knee jerk reactions and a return to the drawing board for a THIRD time.

The point of my suggestion about requiring Vampire skills to be slotted isn't to balance Vampire in PvE/PvP. It is purely for reestablishing the roleplay factor. Completely disregard balance concerns about Undeath for a moment — just require some Vampire abilities (at least one on the active bar) to be slotted for any Vampire passive to work.

What's there to incentivize vampires to roleplay as vampires? They're no different from mortals when they hide their skin with skins from the Collections menu and never even use Vampire abilities. People should use Vampire skills instead of only using the skill line for the passives while pretending not to be a vampire — the skills should be balanced and buffed for this purpose. Maybe the appearance should get an overhaul so that people will be less inclined to hide the vampire skin, which people often cite as too ugly to wear (why take on a curse if it's too ugly for you?)

Meanwhile, werewolves have to engage with a timer minigame — which both incentivizes them to group with others and always be looking for prey to kill and devour — in addition to being forced to use only Werewolf skills and have the werewolf appearance, in order to use any Werewolf passives. For Werewolf, there simply is no option to use the skill line passively while pretending not to be a werewolf — as such, the roleplay factor is tightly enforced, because people play Werewolf in a way that's consistent with how TES werewolves operate.


If Vampire was redesigned, it should require vampires to act like vampires, the way Werewolf requires werewolves to act like werewolves. Otherwise, Vampire will continue to be just another skill line taken for the passives, regardless of how buffed/nerfed the passives are, and only the most dedicated of Vampire players will actually roleplay as vampires.

In TES lore vampires are masters of disguise and illusion in some places, in some not, it really depends on the line of vampires, and of course they do not play like werewolves, vamps are not blood fiends, they should never try to treat the two the same because it is two completely different things. I have been here long enough to experience the multiple different iterations of vampire, what we have now is fine. It just needs a small tweak here and there. We dont need three revamps.

The second vamp was made more about the class in the past, the less people who used it for the passive used it. It only became just about the passive again because they watered the archetype down. Thats it.

So if the roleplay for Vampire in ESO is to pretend to not be a vampire, then what's the point of having active abilities at all? Sure, some players may want to roleplay as a more "monstrous" vampire who uses those abilities, but I don't understand the game design behind having active abilities thematic to a skill line but not incentivizing the player to use any of them. Only the Armor skill lines, Undaunted, and Assault consist of passive abilities which don't require the associated active abilities to use.

I know it's unfitting to compare Vampire to Werewolf, especially since the roleplay between the two is completely different. Apparently I had thought that vampires were supposed to use vampire abilities. I made that comparison because the two curses are mutually exclusive — and an example of how strictly the roleplay is enforced for one but not the other.


So just so I have this straight — Vampire in ESO is meant to feed once every 4 hours to maintain their stage, and that's the end of their roleplay? Other players don't even get to see that in combat (PvE or PvP), so I suppose if the roleplay is to be a master of disguise, then it's in a good spot right now. In other words, it shouldn't be obvious that someone is a vampire unless they explicitly make it known by utilizing the active abilities or feeding on NPCs.

barney2525

Rework?

Again?

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Again lore wise lamae vampires are suppose to shepherds to other vampire

No we aint, other Vampires are prey like all mortals.

Araneae6537

I would rather have options as to what type or line of vampire to be. I only became interested in having a vampire character at all after encountering House Ravenwatch. I’m sure I’m not the only player who would like to be a vampire of that line.

JanTanhide

ZOS has "reworked" Vampire so much you don't see it much in PVE anymore. It's just not fun to play as a full blow vampire (to me). The skills that made it fun are gone. Zippoed out of the class completely.

Shagreth

The experience is lackluster overall. Performance aside - I don't get to feel like a vampire often, there should be the need to stalk NPC's and feed etc. I don't like how the current system works. Also, give us a proper vampire lord transformation.

Warhawke_80

JanTanhide wrote: »

ZOS has "reworked" Vampire so much you don't see it much in PVE anymore. It's just not fun to play as a full blow vampire (to me). The skills that made it fun are gone. Zippoed out of the class completely.

As it should be...the only addition I can think of is flag Vampire full PVP if recognized in Towns or Cities

Seriously what choice did they have? It was to the point that anyone following the meta had to be a Vampire/Werewolf...that was silly.

MaverickConnor22b14_ESO

dragonlord500 wrote: »

According to Zos they are pretty much done with the vampires. (just minor tweaks here and there)

hope your wrong about that cause theat means they seriously harmed a aspect of the game and have no intention of fixing it and that would make alot of player quit outright

MaverickConnor22b14_ESO

JanTanhide wrote: »

ZOS has "reworked" Vampire so much you don't see it much in PVE anymore. It's just not fun to play as a full blow vampire (to me). The skills that made it fun are gone. Zippoed out of the class completely.

one there hasnt been alot of rework i dont know why everyone keeps saying that, form what i seen there been debuff and buffs though out it lifecycle and only one revamp/rework of the entire skilline and that was in greymoor.

Can you tell me where this so called rework/revamp happen so i can do more reserach on this, as stated the only rework i found was greymoor outside of debuff and nerfs on thing since the release of the game i found nothing of this level. where is this so called reowrk thank you

Vevvev

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

The only skill that needs to be reworked imo is Mesmerize and morphs.

The stun on the skill does not function 100% of the time due to a major oversight by the devs. The stun on mesmerize only works if the target is facing towards you, the stun does not work omnidirectionally, even though the visual effect is omnidirectional around the character.

I remember a long time ago I suggested making Mesmerize and its morphs stun any target within the area of effect, but then if the target was looking at you the stun was unblockable.

Was a nice compromise to make the ability function better under server stress while keeping that signature trait, but it seems that's still never been implemented.... ah well.

DrNukenstein

Vamp is in a spot where it's a great example of what an exclusive skill line (if you take this, there are some you can't take) should be.

Each one of the skills can round out what's available to a class, and the passives alter your playstyle more than any guild passives.

What's wrong with it is that there isn't a competing exclusive skill line to make it a real choice. Werewolf is memes compared to it. The only benefit to staying mortal is not having the mild drawbacks of vamp/wolf.

I'll say it everytime. Werewolf needs some benefits outside of doge form (before even getting into problems with the werewolf kit and the huge trade off of using it as your ultimate) and mortals need an exclusive skill line that makes it worth it to stay mortal.

moo_2021

Araneae6537 wrote: »

What about get rid of both Undeath and the cost/recovery penalties? .

Then flame damage would be too much.

I'd rather keep recovery or cost penalty, but rid of both undeath and flame damage.