Suggestion for werewolves

Mathius_Mordred

I'd love to see the werewolf model updated to look like the behemoth version seen here, just keep the size the same as it is now. Whilst we're at it allow us to choose a few different shades for WW, black, brown, tan, white, nothing stupid but just to mix it up a bit, the model is 10 years old and graphically looks a bit poor imo.

Erickson9610

I think the Werewolf model could use a visual update. While many people want the standard Werewolf model to look like a tiny Werewolf Behemoth, I actually think that rather than just copying the same proportions as the Werewolf Behemoth, the Werewolf model should instead adopt certain aspects of the Werewolf Behemoth model — such as more fur that sticks up around the model, a more anatomically correct lupine dentition, a more anatomically correct lupine nose, and lupine ears which look more natural.

For instance, take a look at this comparison between the Werewolf model and the Werewolf Behemoth model:


It becomes clear to me that the Werewolf Behemoth was modeled more closely to real-life wolves, rather than made to look more monstrous and uncanny. Of course, the Werewolf Behemoth model still departs from reality in numerous ways, including the lynx-like fur on the ears and face, but a lot about the facial features of the Werewolf Behemoth is accurate to that of wolves.

In fact, it even gets the anatomy of the teeth correct when the mouth is closed, which is something that the standard Werewolf model doesn't do:


Not to mention that the Werewolf Behemoth model has detailed molars and premolars, whereas the standard Werewolf model simply has spikes for teeth back there. Clearly a lot more care was put into making the Werewolf Behemoth model — perhaps since they're bigger, they warrant more detail — but given that the player rarely gets to play as a Werewolf Behemoth, I think the player's Werewolf model should be overhauled to give it an appearance slightly more grounded in reality.

huskandhunger

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

I'd love to see the werewolf model updated to look like the behemoth version seen here, just keep the size the same as it is now. Whilst we're at it allow us to choose a few different shades for WW, black, brown, tan, white, nothing stupid but just to mix it up a bit, the model is 10 years old and graphically looks a bit poor imo.

*tail wagging* I for one would totally love to have the behemoth model in a smaller form at the size of the current werewolf model. That way it still preserves the awe factor of the behemoth chonker mode, whilst giving a new coat of fur and model, plus the best part is it's already in game!

@ZOS_Kevin - are there any hints or thoughts you could share on the werewolf model and a potential visual design update?

Erickson9610

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Whilst we're at it allow us to choose a few different shades for WW, black, brown, tan, white, nothing stupid but just to mix it up a bit, the model is 10 years old and graphically looks a bit poor imo.

Look at all of the existing werewolf fur colors, body markings, and polymorphs that werewolves could have:



Maybe some of these alternate fur colors will become available to us as Skill Styles for Werewolf Transformation and its morphs? After all, it's like the Slate-Gray Summoned Bear collectible being used to change the fur color of Feral Guardian and its morphs from brown to grey:


Currently, the fur color of the werewolf form changes between the chosen morph of Werewolf Transformation. I've already proposed some ideas about alternate ways to distinguish the Werewolf Transformation morphs in this thread:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/621167/new-werewolf-player-model-skins/

...but to recap, I think Werewolf Berserker should be given glowing eyes like that of the Eternal Guardian morph shown above (in the rightmost column). Pack Leader already has its direwolves, and the base Werewolf Transformation would have neither direwolves nor glowing eyes.

El_Borracho

Counter-proposal: Keep werewolves looking the same as they do now, but make them useful. Say, as viable DDs in PVP like they originally were meant to be.

Vulkunne

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

I'd love to see the werewolf model updated to look like the behemoth version seen here, just keep the size the same as it is now. Whilst we're at it allow us to choose a few different shades for WW, black, brown, tan, white, nothing stupid but just to mix it up a bit, the model is 10 years old and graphically looks a bit poor imo.

Bring on the WW ideas. The whole engine needs to be pulled, taken apart and completely restored.

WW is too short, has many noticeable problems in WW form and is massively under-powered next to vamp. The whole damn thing needs a good rework, keeping some exising components as passives. I would also recommend taking a serious look at WW gameplay in PvE first, then PvP because there are some problems there as well.

Erickson9610

El_Borracho wrote: »

Counter-proposal: Keep werewolves looking the same as they do now, but make them useful. Say, as viable DDs in PVP like they originally were meant to be.

Why not make them useful in PvE and PvP, as well as update the model or have Skill Styles/skins? I don't see why werewolves can't be updated both in terms of visuals and in terms of combat ability.

The Werewolf players I know have been asking for combat updates as well as cosmetic updates for years now. Some of them like the look of the Werewolf Behemoth, but some of them hate it. Some of them want combat changes to take priority over cosmetic changes. With the announced Scribing and Skill Styling systems, I don't see why we can't have both combat changes with Werewolf Grimoires and cosmetic changes with Werewolf Transformation Skill Styles.

CP5

In the event anyone here isn't aware, the current werewolf model is the updated version. I don't remember exactly when it was changed, think it was back in 2014 with patch 1.5.2, when werewolves got their full skill line, and when the cosmetic update came out some people liked the old and some liked the new. I would love to see werewolves get gameplay updates, to make it a utility choice to switch up gameplay for different situations, since if ever werewolf gets too powerful it gets quickly nerfed. As for the cosmetic of using the Behemoth model, I'd greatly dislike it. They look so derpy to me, swole, comically so, a design that is funny to fight but looks like it is trying too hard, and I'd use werewolf significantly less if it was changed to that. With the skill aesthetic change option coming with the next chapter, I could see them adding different styles to the transformation through that, which would likely be ideal, so people can pick the style they want.

For those interested, this is what pack leaders looked like before the update.

Also, it wasn't until 2.4.5 that berserkers got their black fur update, so they have updated werewolves like this in the past, but that particular style is, a bit much, and ZOS learned when trying to update base game motifs with the Redguard and Orc motifs that changing base styles for everyone isn't well received.

Erickson9610

CP5 wrote: »

In the event anyone here isn't aware, the current werewolf model is the updated version. I don't remember exactly when it was changed, think it was back in 2014 with patch 1.5.2, when werewolves got their full skill line, and when the cosmetic update came out some people liked the old and some liked the new. I would love to see werewolves get gameplay updates, to make it a utility choice to switch up gameplay for different situations, since if ever werewolf gets too powerful it gets quickly nerfed. As for the cosmetic of using the Behemoth model, I'd greatly dislike it. They look so derpy to me, swole, comically so, a design that is funny to fight but looks like it is trying too hard, and I'd use werewolf significantly less if it was changed to that. With the skill aesthetic change option coming with the next chapter, I could see them adding different styles to the transformation through that, which would likely be ideal, so people can pick the style they want.

For those interested, this is what pack leaders looked like before the update.

Also, it wasn't until 2.4.5 that berserkers got their black fur update, so they have updated werewolves like this in the past, but that particular style is, a bit much, and ZOS learned when trying to update base game motifs with the Redguard and Orc motifs that changing base styles for everyone isn't well received.

That visual update took away things like the fur that sticks up that many of us want back. It's technically still an update if it removes things. What worries me is that this trend of constantly removing things, like the bloodstained muzzle when feeding or the additional fur that sticks up, is telling of some sort of effort to optimize performance by sacrificing visual quality. The extra details don't need to be kept track of on the server side, so it should be up to the graphics settings of each player's client to determine what is rendered for performance reasons.

I made a comparison between the old ESO werewolf model, the updated (current) ESO werewolf model, and the TES V: Skyrim werewolf model, which both were inspired by.

I go more in-depth into my analysis in this comment, but the idea is that the old werewolf model looks closer to the source material than the new model does, save for the fur patterns on the face.

Really, though — why can the Werewolf Behemoth model afford to have all that extra fur sticking up, but the regular werewolf model cannot? If the current day werewolf model had that extra fur detail back that was lost, it would look even closer to the TES V: Skyrim werewolf model, and it might be better for it.

Mathius_Mordred

Thanks for the replies guys, very interesting, I hope ZOS takes a look at our furry friend soon.

El_Borracho

Erickson9610 wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Counter-proposal: Keep werewolves looking the same as they do now, but make them useful. Say, as viable DDs in PVP like they originally were meant to be.

Why not make them useful in PvE and PvP, as well as update the model or have Skill Styles/skins? I don't see why werewolves can't be updated both in terms of visuals and in terms of combat ability.

The Werewolf players I know have been asking for combat updates as well as cosmetic updates for years now. Some of them like the look of the Werewolf Behemoth, but some of them hate it. Some of them want combat changes to take priority over cosmetic changes. With the announced Scribing and Skill Styling systems, I don't see why we can't have both combat changes with Werewolf Grimoires and cosmetic changes with Werewolf Transformation Skill Styles.

I'm starting small. Maybe if they regain a foothold in PVP again, the devs might realize they could also be used in PVE. [Checks Vampire] Uhh, never mind.

Mathius_Mordred

It would also be cool to have an ultimate for WW, so once in that form, you could benefit from a new ultimate, something like feeding frenzy that would send you berserk one shotting anything within 8 metres with a whirlwind of claws and teeth showering other enemies with poisonous blood and spit hehe, maybe that's going too far.

Gruumsh1

I'll never understand why ZOS don't just sell WW morphs for people to choose from. Stops the "I love it!" and "I hate it!" arguments.

Erickson9610

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

It would also be cool to have an ultimate for WW, so once in that form, you could benefit from a new ultimate, something like feeding frenzy that would send you berserk one shotting anything within 8 metres with a whirlwind of claws and teeth showering other enemies with poisonous blood and spit hehe, maybe that's going too far.

I've always thought that Werewolf Transformation should act like Incapacitating Strike, in that when it's cast with x or more Ultimate, it has some alternate function. In this case, casting with less than x Ultimate would revert your form, while casting with x or more Ultimate would trigger a special in-form Ultimate ability.

Mathius_Mordred

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

It would also be cool to have an ultimate for WW, so once in that form, you could benefit from a new ultimate, something like feeding frenzy that would send you berserk one shotting anything within 8 metres with a whirlwind of claws and teeth showering other enemies with poisonous blood and spit hehe, maybe that's going too far.

I've always thought that Werewolf Transformation should act like Incapacitating Strike, in that when it's cast with x or more Ultimate, it has some alternate function. In this case, casting with less than x Ultimate would revert your form, while casting with x or more Ultimate would trigger a special in-form Ultimate ability.

Excellent idea. I've checked the PTS patch notes, seems like there's nothing for werewolves in the next update sadly.

Erickson9610

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Erickson9610 wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

It would also be cool to have an ultimate for WW, so once in that form, you could benefit from a new ultimate, something like feeding frenzy that would send you berserk one shotting anything within 8 metres with a whirlwind of claws and teeth showering other enemies with poisonous blood and spit hehe, maybe that's going too far.

I've always thought that Werewolf Transformation should act like Incapacitating Strike, in that when it's cast with x or more Ultimate, it has some alternate function. In this case, casting with less than x Ultimate would revert your form, while casting with x or more Ultimate would trigger a special in-form Ultimate ability.

Excellent idea. I've checked the PTS patch notes, seems like there's nothing for werewolves in the next update sadly.

The only thing werewolves specifically got was a guaranteed proc of Hemorrhaging on the initial hit of Pounce. Notably, that means Brutal Pounce applies Hemorrhaging to all enemies in an area of effect.

There was also a bug fix for the Salvation set, where the 5th piece wasn't properly giving the bonus when equipped while already in Werewolf form, and another bug fix for the Pursuit passive not properly reapplying after finishing a transformation minigame in one of the Portals to the Unknown in the Infinite Archive.

So, there's not a whole lot for werewolves next update, but I am looking forward to being able to use the Expert Summoner passive in Werewolf form (+10% Max Health with Pack Leader, or +10% Max Magicka and Stamina with Werewolf Berserker), as well as the status effect changes for Werewolf's 3 in-kit damage types (bleed, physical, and disease).