Allow us to opt out of events

SilverBride

I would like the option to opt out of events I don't want to participate in. With all the bugs lately from these events and innocent accounts being banned for not realizing these were bugs and not features, I don't want to participate any more.

Please allow us to opt out of events and all their perks. Or make it so we have to complete the event starter quest to take part and receive these perks. I don't feel comfortable participating in these any more.

CrashTest

Pretty sad that people are afraid to play the game because they might get banned for accidentally doing something because ZOS broke that something.

sarahthes

SilverBride wrote: »

I would like the option to opt out of events I don't want to participate in. With all the bugs lately from these events and innocent accounts being banned for not realizing these were bugs and not features, I don't want to participate any more.

Please allow us to opt out of events and all their perks. Or make it so we have to complete the event starter quest to take part and receive these perks. I don't feel comfortable participating in these any more.

You are being paranoid for no reason.

Do you want to opt out of getting endeavors next?

LunaFlora

sarahthes wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I would like the option to opt out of events I don't want to participate in. With all the bugs lately from these events and innocent accounts being banned for not realizing these were bugs and not features, I don't want to participate any more.

Please allow us to opt out of events and all their perks. Or make it so we have to complete the event starter quest to take part and receive these perks. I don't feel comfortable participating in these any more.

You are being paranoid for no reason.

Do you want to opt out of getting endeavors next?

about a half year ago there was a bug or exploit with endeavours that did cause people to get banned so i would understand if people wanted that

Reginald_leBlem

I "opt out" of events by simply not participating.

SilverBride

sarahthes wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I would like the option to opt out of events I don't want to participate in. With all the bugs lately from these events and innocent accounts being banned for not realizing these were bugs and not features, I don't want to participate any more.

Please allow us to opt out of events and all their perks. Or make it so we have to complete the event starter quest to take part and receive these perks. I don't feel comfortable participating in these any more.

You are being paranoid for no reason.

Do you want to opt out of getting endeavors next?

Am I? Look at how many players are banned right now for deconstructing gear and receiving back what has been the normal amount of transmutes for years now, and how long it's taking for the innocent players to have their accounts restored.

And why shouldn't we have the option to opt out of events that we no longer feel comfortable participating in? Especially since these ban waves have happened more than once over bugs that the player did not create.

sarahthes

SilverBride wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I would like the option to opt out of events I don't want to participate in. With all the bugs lately from these events and innocent accounts being banned for not realizing these were bugs and not features, I don't want to participate any more.

Please allow us to opt out of events and all their perks. Or make it so we have to complete the event starter quest to take part and receive these perks. I don't feel comfortable participating in these any more.

You are being paranoid for no reason.

Do you want to opt out of getting endeavors next?

Am I? Look at how many players are banned right now for deconstructing gear and receiving back what has been the normal amount of transmutes for years now, and how long it's taking for the innocent players to have their accounts restored.

And why shouldn't we have the option to opt out of events that we no longer feel comfortable participating in? Especially since these ban waves have happened more than once over bugs that the player did not create.

Bans have always been for people who abused the exploit excessively.

People who did not do it excessively have not been banned, at least not permanently. In the case of the endeavors, every single person who was falsely flagged got their accounts back.

If people aren't getting their accounts back after participating in this exploit, that should tell you something. Especially since it was only possible for about an hour.

Alpheu5

LunaFlora wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I would like the option to opt out of events I don't want to participate in. With all the bugs lately from these events and innocent accounts being banned for not realizing these were bugs and not features, I don't want to participate any more.

Please allow us to opt out of events and all their perks. Or make it so we have to complete the event starter quest to take part and receive these perks. I don't feel comfortable participating in these any more.

You are being paranoid for no reason.

Do you want to opt out of getting endeavors next?

about a half year ago there was a bug or exploit with endeavours that did cause people to get banned so i would understand if people wanted that

And that time where people that routinely farm Tel Var risked being banned for simply continuing to play like they always had.

ZOS_Kevin

Just wanted to clarify here. We followed up in another thread just a little while ago, but will share here. That response is below.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We do want to offer some clarity around the issue of bans here however. First, we want to note that no bans have actually been given out. Currently, a very small number of accounts are subject to an investigation regarding the transmute crystals issue during the Crafter's Celebration. Those under investigation have been temporarily suspended during the investigation period and have been notified of this. Those impacted will be noticed once the investigation is over and will receive further instruction. Please be patient as we work to conclude the investigation.

Additionally, when we look at actions for exploitation, we don't just say, "person did x, thus they are banned". We look at a multitude of factors to make sure if there is an margin for accidents, we can account for that. We totally understand is someone stumbles into an exploit on accident. But there is a difference between doing something, 3 times without knowing it and doing it 1000 times, for example. @LunaFlora mentioned the endeavor issue and we took the same approach there and outlined it. If you stumbled into in by accident, then we can see that and account for that. Those who took advantage, it was pretty easy to tell. Hopefully this helps in easing some concerns. But we'll make note of this and take it to the team as well.

colossalvoids

Thanks for the confirmation @ZOS_Kevin !

LunaFlora

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to clarify here. We followed up in another thread just a little while ago, but will share here. That response is below.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We do want to offer some clarity around the issue of bans here however. First, we want to note that no bans have actually been given out. Currently, a very small number of accounts are subject to an investigation regarding the transmute crystals issue during the Crafter's Celebration. Those under investigation have been temporarily suspended during the investigation period and have been notified of this. Those impacted will be noticed once the investigation is over and will receive further instruction. Please be patient as we work to conclude the investigation.

Additionally, when we look at actions for exploitation, we don't just say, "person did x, thus they are banned". We look at a multitude of factors to make sure if there is an margin for accidents, we can account for that. We totally understand is someone stumbles into an exploit on accident. But there is a difference between doing something, 3 times without knowing it and doing it 1000 times, for example. @LunaFlora mentioned the endeavor issue and we took the same approach there and outlined it. If you stumbled into in by accident, then we can see that and account for that. Those who took advantage, it was pretty easy to tell. Hopefully this helps in easing some concerns. But we'll make note of this and take it to the team as well.

thanks for the information, that's good to know.

TaSheen

Reginald_leBlem wrote: »

I "opt out" of events by simply not participating.

Yup. Exactly.

spartaxoxo

@ZOS_Kevin

That's all well and good but there's a few pieces of feedback I'd like to give about this that I feel could use some improvement or feedback.

1) Tickets are not being responded to about this investigation. Many users are under the impression they have already been permanently banned, when evidently they have not. And they have waited long times for responses. I understand there's a high volume but there should at least be an automated reply reiterating that for now the suspension is temporary pending the results of the investigation and that a customer service agent will only be available after it's concluded. Leaving players unread for over a week naturally leads them to draw their own conclusions.

2) Ban waves of this nature should have official discussion threads so players can discuss it and players seeking answers have some where to go for official information. It would have helped a lot of the misinformation stop from being spread. Obviously ban waves related to hacks or other sensitive matters should remain private. But this was a pretty public exploit.

3) Exploits that don't require doing anything unusual shouldn't result in a permanent suspension. "Let me take advantage of this event," is pretty different thought process than "Let me exploit a bug," even though they look exactly the same thing when the only thing required for exploitation is playing the game as normal. This should be considered a mitigating circumstance imo. I think I'm not the only that feels the same as it seems a sentiment I have seen commonly expressed.

Obviously the accounts need to be temporarily suspended and items removed so they can't damage the economy. But, afterwards it's my sincere hope that these players get their accounts back. And I don't feel like I'm the only player that feels that way. I just feel there's such a big difference between things that happen because they played the game as normal and bugs that require odd or complicated steps to reproduce.

RetPing

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to clarify here. We followed up in another thread just a little while ago, but will share here. That response is below.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We do want to offer some clarity around the issue of bans here however. First, we want to note that no bans have actually been given out. Currently, a very small number of accounts are subject to an investigation regarding the transmute crystals issue during the Crafter's Celebration. Those under investigation have been temporarily suspended during the investigation period and have been notified of this. Those impacted will be noticed once the investigation is over and will receive further instruction. Please be patient as we work to conclude the investigation.

Additionally, when we look at actions for exploitation, we don't just say, "person did x, thus they are banned". We look at a multitude of factors to make sure if there is an margin for accidents, we can account for that. We totally understand is someone stumbles into an exploit on accident. But there is a difference between doing something, 3 times without knowing it and doing it 1000 times, for example. @LunaFlora mentioned the endeavor issue and we took the same approach there and outlined it. If you stumbled into in by accident, then we can see that and account for that. Those who took advantage, it was pretty easy to tell. Hopefully this helps in easing some concerns. But we'll make note of this and take it to the team as well.

In my country we have this thing "innocent until proven guilty".
First you find proof that someone did things wrong, then eventually you take actions. Not the other way around.
There are many people that will lose all the Mayhem event being probably innocent.

[snip]
[edited for bashing]

Lumsdenml

Seriously? The people who got banned know what they did, Let's stop pretending there are a large swath of players who have banned and "didn't know they did anything wrong."

Pelanora

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to clarify here. We followed up in another thread just a little while ago, but will share here. That response is below.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We do want to offer some clarity around the issue of bans here however. First, we want to note that no bans have actually been given out. Currently, a very small number of accounts are subject to an investigation regarding the transmute crystals issue during the Crafter's Celebration. Those under investigation have been temporarily suspended during the investigation period and have been notified of this. Those impacted will be noticed once the investigation is over and will receive further instruction. Please be patient as we work to conclude the investigation.

Additionally, when we look at actions for exploitation, we don't just say, "person did x, thus they are banned". We look at a multitude of factors to make sure if there is an margin for accidents, we can account for that. We totally understand is someone stumbles into an exploit on accident. But there is a difference between doing something, 3 times without knowing it and doing it 1000 times, for example. @LunaFlora mentioned the endeavor issue and we took the same approach there and outlined it. If you stumbled into in by accident, then we can see that and account for that. Those who took advantage, it was pretty easy to tell. Hopefully this helps in easing some concerns. But we'll make note of this and take it to the team as well.

I don't think you should suspend people without due cause. I think you should investigate thoroughly and then take action. Just natural justice principles.... but that's just me.

jaws343

RetPing wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to clarify here. We followed up in another thread just a little while ago, but will share here. That response is below.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We do want to offer some clarity around the issue of bans here however. First, we want to note that no bans have actually been given out. Currently, a very small number of accounts are subject to an investigation regarding the transmute crystals issue during the Crafter's Celebration. Those under investigation have been temporarily suspended during the investigation period and have been notified of this. Those impacted will be noticed once the investigation is over and will receive further instruction. Please be patient as we work to conclude the investigation.

Additionally, when we look at actions for exploitation, we don't just say, "person did x, thus they are banned". We look at a multitude of factors to make sure if there is an margin for accidents, we can account for that. We totally understand is someone stumbles into an exploit on accident. But there is a difference between doing something, 3 times without knowing it and doing it 1000 times, for example. @LunaFlora mentioned the endeavor issue and we took the same approach there and outlined it. If you stumbled into in by accident, then we can see that and account for that. Those who took advantage, it was pretty easy to tell. Hopefully this helps in easing some concerns. But we'll make note of this and take it to the team as well.

In my country we have this thing "innocent until proven guilty".
First you find proof that someone did things wrong, then eventually you take actions. Not the other way around.
There are many people that will lose all the Mayhem event being probably innocent.

[snip]

Gather Evidence ---> Accounts have activities that relate to a duplication bug that ZOS can see in their data
Take Action ----> ZOS temporarily suspends accounts
Punishment --> ZOS either bans or re-instates accounts based on review of the evidence

I mean, that is pretty much how hte justice system works. You get arrested based on evidence, and then your presumption of innocence is used during the trial. Accounts temporarily suspended for review are basically in the trial phase.

[edited to remove quote]

sarahthes

Pelanora wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to clarify here. We followed up in another thread just a little while ago, but will share here. That response is below.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We do want to offer some clarity around the issue of bans here however. First, we want to note that no bans have actually been given out. Currently, a very small number of accounts are subject to an investigation regarding the transmute crystals issue during the Crafter's Celebration. Those under investigation have been temporarily suspended during the investigation period and have been notified of this. Those impacted will be noticed once the investigation is over and will receive further instruction. Please be patient as we work to conclude the investigation.

Additionally, when we look at actions for exploitation, we don't just say, "person did x, thus they are banned". We look at a multitude of factors to make sure if there is an margin for accidents, we can account for that. We totally understand is someone stumbles into an exploit on accident. But there is a difference between doing something, 3 times without knowing it and doing it 1000 times, for example. @LunaFlora mentioned the endeavor issue and we took the same approach there and outlined it. If you stumbled into in by accident, then we can see that and account for that. Those who took advantage, it was pretty easy to tell. Hopefully this helps in easing some concerns. But we'll make note of this and take it to the team as well.

I don't think you should suspend people without due cause. I think you should investigate thoroughly and then take action. Just natural justice principles.... but that's just me.

If you mess up at work you can find yourself suspended without pay while the investigation takes place. This is more analogous to that situation than to a court of law.

Jaimeh

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Obviously the accounts need to be temporarily suspended and items removed so they can't damage the economy. But, afterwards it's my sincere hope that these players get their accounts back. And I don't feel like I'm the only player that feels that way. I just feel there's such a big difference between things that happen because they played the game as normal and bugs that require odd or complicated steps to reproduce.

I agree with the above ^ On the one hand, it's a relief to get clarification that ZOS has an error margin for cases like this, and that the people who got temporarily suspended were clearly abusing the bug and not doing it by accident. On the other hand, I can imagine the stress and worry of people who were playing normally and run into the bug, even if it didn't end up being condemning. I didn't engage with the transmute system, because I had seen the forum posts beforehand, but if I had, I would have been pretty freaked out, and honestly that's not a great mindset going into an event, which is supposed to be a way of the company to reward the players, not punish them, and it has happened a few times now that I absolutely get where the OP is coming from. It's not worth losing access to one's account, even for a few days, and it's not worth the stress of the back and forth with support, or hoping for answers in the forums.

Tandor

sarahthes wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to clarify here. We followed up in another thread just a little while ago, but will share here. That response is below.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We do want to offer some clarity around the issue of bans here however. First, we want to note that no bans have actually been given out. Currently, a very small number of accounts are subject to an investigation regarding the transmute crystals issue during the Crafter's Celebration. Those under investigation have been temporarily suspended during the investigation period and have been notified of this. Those impacted will be noticed once the investigation is over and will receive further instruction. Please be patient as we work to conclude the investigation.

Additionally, when we look at actions for exploitation, we don't just say, "person did x, thus they are banned". We look at a multitude of factors to make sure if there is an margin for accidents, we can account for that. We totally understand is someone stumbles into an exploit on accident. But there is a difference between doing something, 3 times without knowing it and doing it 1000 times, for example. @LunaFlora mentioned the endeavor issue and we took the same approach there and outlined it. If you stumbled into in by accident, then we can see that and account for that. Those who took advantage, it was pretty easy to tell. Hopefully this helps in easing some concerns. But we'll make note of this and take it to the team as well.

I don't think you should suspend people without due cause. I think you should investigate thoroughly and then take action. Just natural justice principles.... but that's just me.

If you mess up at work you can find yourself suspended without pay while the investigation takes place. This is more analogous to that situation than to a court of law.

Agreed. In a sense, it's not really that the player is suspended, rather that the account is frozen pending detailed investigation so as to maintain it's integrity and not allow the investigation to be compromised by e.g. the transfer of currency and the deletion or transfer of suspect items.

With that in mind, it may be better for players to be notified that their account has been temporarily frozen during an investigation rather than the players having been suspended. It's clear from a lot of forum discussions on this and other related incidents that many players don't understand the difference between "ban" and "suspension", with the result that inappropriate use of the term "ban" tends to prove scare-mongering to other players who are just playing the game normally and innocently - as evident in this thread.

ZOS_Kevin

Thanks for your feedback, @spartaxoxo. Wanted to follow up on some of the points as some clarification is needed.

1. Those impacted have been told in their emails received, that they have received a temporary suspension pending investigation, not banned. And highlights the investigation can take days to weeks. Also want to note that this is a small number of players impacted.
2. The investigation is ongoing and no final judgements have been made. And we handled those on an individual level. There are a ton of pitfalls that can occur by having a thread to discuss something that is still under review. And we note this generally, but we don't discuss how individuals will specifically be impacted as that involves an understanding of their player history, which is private information.
3. Only reiterating to address your third point, but this is a temporary suspension. And that doesn't negate the fact that others reported the issue immediately. There is a difference between playing the game as intended and seeing an issue within game and taking advantage of it. Context matters here and the issue was live for only two hours. We can see what is within the normal play scope and what is taking advantage.

But we'll end with this. No one has been banned and the suspension is temporary. We have properly articulated this to all players involved. While we understand those under investigation want to get back in, we have clearly outlined the steps regarding the investigation to them via email. We are hoping to conclude the investigation soon and notify the players involved with next steps. We are making changes to the event to make sure this doesn't happen in future iterations and we have provided tons of player feedback noting frustration around it. But the vast majority of players who encountered this issue reported it or were found within a normal play range where they did not take advantage of an issue, and thus were not placed under investigation. Highlighting this only to reiterate the small number of players impacted by the investigation. Hopefully this provides some additional clarity to the conversation.

SilverBride

Thank you for your response, @ZOS_Kevin.

I never meant for this to turn into a discussion on the recent ban, but only mentioned it because it's the main reason I would like the ability to opt out of events I have no interest it.

Normally I just don't participate in the ones I don't want, but the crafting one makes that a lot more difficult because almost everyone crafts. So it's possible to run into something like this just doing our normal activities.

Ilsabet

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

1. Those impacted have been told in their emails received, that they have received a temporary suspension pending investigation, not banned. And highlights the investigation can take days to weeks. Also want to note that this is a small number of players impacted.

If that's the case, I wonder why so many people who posted about their situation said they'd been permanently banned.

Destai

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

Just wanted to clarify here. We followed up in another thread just a little while ago, but will share here. That response is below.

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

We do want to offer some clarity around the issue of bans here however. First, we want to note that no bans have actually been given out. Currently, a very small number of accounts are subject to an investigation regarding the transmute crystals issue during the Crafter's Celebration. Those under investigation have been temporarily suspended during the investigation period and have been notified of this. Those impacted will be noticed once the investigation is over and will receive further instruction. Please be patient as we work to conclude the investigation.

Additionally, when we look at actions for exploitation, we don't just say, "person did x, thus they are banned". We look at a multitude of factors to make sure if there is an margin for accidents, we can account for that. We totally understand is someone stumbles into an exploit on accident. But there is a difference between doing something, 3 times without knowing it and doing it 1000 times, for example. @LunaFlora mentioned the endeavor issue and we took the same approach there and outlined it. If you stumbled into in by accident, then we can see that and account for that. Those who took advantage, it was pretty easy to tell. Hopefully this helps in easing some concerns. But we'll make note of this and take it to the team as well.

Like I said here, I think the situation would've been better had there been better communication early on. People don't ask questions like that lightly, so it'd be appreciated if those questions were addressed sooner and more directly. I don't know if it just wasn't seen, but IMO you should've anticipated that question given - sadly - how many times this has happened.

I can also appreciate where this thread's coming from, even though I wasn't affected. Seeing issues event after event this year is bad enough, now it's starting to feel like "what bans will come from this" is another valid concern. It just sinks any interest in events, especially with the suspend-first-and-unban-later approach. No one needs that kind of stress.

ZOS_Kevin

SilverBride wrote: »

Thank you for your response, @ZOS_Kevin.

I never meant for this to turn into a discussion on the recent ban, but only mentioned it because it's the main reason I would like the ability to opt out of events I have no interest it.

Normally I just don't participate in the ones I don't want, but the crafting one makes that a lot more difficult because almost everyone crafts. So it's possible to run into something like this just doing our normal activities.

No worries! Happy to provide clarity when possible. Sorry to hijack your thread to answer questions!

SilverBride

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Thank you for your response, @ZOS_Kevin.

I never meant for this to turn into a discussion on the recent ban, but only mentioned it because it's the main reason I would like the ability to opt out of events I have no interest it.

Normally I just don't participate in the ones I don't want, but the crafting one makes that a lot more difficult because almost everyone crafts. So it's possible to run into something like this just doing our normal activities.

No worries! Happy to provide clarity when possible. Sorry to hijack your thread to answer questions!

Nothing to be sorry about! Your information is always welcome and very much appreciated!

Reginald_leBlem

One of the pitfalls of having a mini event right before the popular and often eagerly anticipated MYM is that we now have players who are temporarily suspended for a week or more and missing out on AP, fun, tier 1 (which ironically is often used to farm transmute crystals) and event tickets.

It just looks bad, and I hope part of the feedback being passed along to appropriate channels is how unpopular it is to suspend accounts when at the end of the day, the root cause was the ridiculous, obvious oversight in the event itself. This wasn't a rare, unforseen synergy between a specific skill and the angle of a specific wall, this was an announced feature when people logged in.

There were better ways to handle this. Heck, doing nothing would have been a better way to handle it.

supersonic_kitten

Ilsabet wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

1. Those impacted have been told in their emails received, that they have received a temporary suspension pending investigation, not banned. And highlights the investigation can take days to weeks. Also want to note that this is a small number of players impacted.

If that's the case, I wonder why so many people who posted about their situation said they'd been permanently banned.

Because when you log into the game, that's what the message says. You only learn that the suspension is temporary from email.

ssewallb14_ESO

I think perhaps going forward there should be mandatory PTS cycles for all events, "surprise" or not. The timing of the events could still remain a surprise

While they might not attract as much interest as a standard PTS cycle, only a couple of players with sufficient amount of experience playing the game would be needed to find exploits like the recent one. A fairly minimal amount of effort to save a large calamity.

Just MHO of course.

supersonic_kitten

But I love how Kevin has to reiterate that the number of players affected is very small, multiple times, and yet their support is horribly burdened by this issue.

Ilsabet

supersonic_kitten wrote: »

Ilsabet wrote: »

ZOS_Kevin wrote: »

1. Those impacted have been told in their emails received, that they have received a temporary suspension pending investigation, not banned. And highlights the investigation can take days to weeks. Also want to note that this is a small number of players impacted.

If that's the case, I wonder why so many people who posted about their situation said they'd been permanently banned.

Because when you log into the game, that's what the message says. You only learn that the suspension is temporary from email.

That would indeed make a difference.