Cyrodiil drastically needs a 50%+ penalty to blocking and group applied heals

Twohothardware · February 25

Healing, blocking, health, physcial/spell resistances, crit resist, sources of all of these damage mitigators in the average players build have vastly outpaced the increase in player damage in PvP the past couple of years. It used to be that only the occasional tank required more than one player to kill and now you have entire zergs made up of players with 40K health that are that way but still able to deal damage on top of it.

Cyrodiil is not trials, you're suppose to die in PvP but the death rate for players in these zergs has without a doubt drastically gone down in this current meta.

Cyrodiil needs a lot of rebalancing but the quickest and easiest fix it needs right now is larger penalties to blocking and group healing. At least 50% or more from where we are currently.

silky_soft · February 25

Without making pve upset ZOS could do some other easy changes.

- Null field to be added to another skill line accessible by anyone. Mages guild?

- Bring back the original cost increase poisons to 60%.

- So many drain health or absorb damage skills. Why not make a no damage, drain stamina or magical at the same rate as you do damage? Make it a monster helm.

- Something logical like the set Langour of Peryite. Change the measly 6% damage to a block target to, ignore 60% of the block mitigation when attacking from behind. Make the tank work for their mitigation.

- Cloak has many counters that disable it. Potions, skills. Why not have one for dodge, block or skills? Make them part of a set if you want. Single target null.

James-Wayne · February 25

I'm just hoping the new PvP update addresses the current issues and doesn't introduce new ones like the last few years have.

Bushido2513 · February 26

Twohothardware wrote: »

Healing, blocking, health, physcial/spell resistances, crit resist, sources of all of these damage mitigators in the average players build have vastly outpaced the increase in player damage in PvP the past couple of years. It used to be that only the occasional tank required more than one player to kill and now you have entire zergs made up of players with 40K health that are that way but still able to deal damage on top of it.

Cyrodiil is not trials, you're suppose to die in PvP but the death rate for players in these zergs has without a doubt drastically gone down in this current meta.

Cyrodiil needs a lot of rebalancing but the quickest and easiest fix it needs right now is larger penalties to blocking and group healing. At least 50% or more from where we are currently.

Blocking isn't really an issue when you look at what's behind it which is healing. Blocking does stop you from taking so much damage but block heals, cross heals, los and heals, those and having so much regen combine with blocking and undeath to form an issue.

Self heals, hots, etc shouldn't be able to go as high as they can on pretty much all classes. Add in group heals and the high performing sets that boost personal and group heals and pretty much get ready for a hand cramp as you go through your rotation for the 30th time while nobody dies.

I'd say burst heals need to be reviewed and brought in line and group healing needs to work more like pale order so that they are effective but cap off as it hits more targets.

It's not an easy problem. One way gives you elder tanks online and the other means you can't go anywhere without being close to gank bait.

Zabagad · February 27

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Blocking isn't really an issue when you look at what's behind it which is healing. Blocking does stop you from taking so much damage but block heals, cross heals, los and heals, those and having so much regen combine with blocking and undeath to form an issue.

I'm an almost no-blocker and I trust you, but I never understood why dmg ist reduced by 50%, shield is reduced by 50%, healing is reduced by 55% - but blocking is not touched at all.
In my opinion the block reduction (incl. all possible modifyers from S&B or froststaff or skills like BA) should be reduced by 50% as well.

nejcn001 · February 27

Offensive buffs should be stronger than defensive buffs to prevent stalemating.

Luke_Flamesword · February 27

If healing is a problem, why just don't set a static cap (for PvP only) for how much health you can heal for every second (or two seconds) - for example limit to 15k health for every 2 seconds. Yeah, it would need to adjust some skills but I can't another solution for overhealing, because there always will be a plenty of sources for every extensive healing.

It would also limit high health builds meta, because they will be less usefull when you need 6 seconds to full heal from almost zero.

BenTSG · February 27

silky_soft wrote: »

- Something logical like the set Langour of Peryite. Change the measly 6% damage to a block target to, ignore 60% of the block mitigation when attacking from behind. Make the tank work for their mitigation.

I actually really like this idea that block, in PvP, requires blocking in the direction of the attack.

StaticWave · February 27

Zabagad wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Blocking isn't really an issue when you look at what's behind it which is healing. Blocking does stop you from taking so much damage but block heals, cross heals, los and heals, those and having so much regen combine with blocking and undeath to form an issue.

I'm an almost no-blocker and I trust you, but I never understood why dmg ist reduced by 50%, shield is reduced by 50%, healing is reduced by 55% - but blocking is not touched at all.
In my opinion the block reduction (incl. all possible modifyers from S&B or froststaff or skills like BA) should be reduced by 50% as well.

That's because blocking isn't really an issue IF one or all of these conditions are met:

1) The player doesn't have Undeath
2) The player doesn't have good HoTs or a burst heal

It's quite easy to kill them through block if they aren't stage 3 vamp or have a gazillion HoTs ticking with a burst heal, especially if you have an Execute slotted. So the solution is addressing Undeath passive and cross-healing, which have been brought up many times and still have yet to see any changes lol.

Bushido2513 · February 27

StaticWave wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

Bushido2513 wrote: »

Blocking isn't really an issue when you look at what's behind it which is healing. Blocking does stop you from taking so much damage but block heals, cross heals, los and heals, those and having so much regen combine with blocking and undeath to form an issue.

I'm an almost no-blocker and I trust you, but I never understood why dmg ist reduced by 50%, shield is reduced by 50%, healing is reduced by 55% - but blocking is not touched at all.
In my opinion the block reduction (incl. all possible modifyers from S&B or froststaff or skills like BA) should be reduced by 50% as well.

That's because blocking isn't really an issue IF one or all of these conditions are met:

1) The player doesn't have Undeath
2) The player doesn't have good HoTs or a burst heal

It's quite easy to kill them through block if they aren't stage 3 vamp or have a gazillion HoTs ticking with a burst heal, especially if you have an Execute slotted. So the solution is addressing Undeath passive and cross-healing, which have been brought up many times and still have yet to see any changes lol.

Yeah I would mostly agree. Now and then I see good players that make excellent use of block but that's more dk, templar, Warden, and NB who then just heal up to full. If you look at the combat though they block for a much shorter time than they heal. Other than on dk, a block tank, or a bash build, holding block will get you killed pretty fast.

I've not really been blocked as much as I've watched someone heal from the brink in my face several times in a row. So I'm ok with the state of block at the moment

Also blocking was nerfed a while back due to having so many block tanks. Forgot the exact change but I do recall seeing less block tanks after that.

Dovahmiim · March 1

Consider this, if you nerf non evasive forms of defense, this will just buff NBs even further. Sorc is fairly balanced rn, but it could tip things too far in their favour too. Group heals need to get reworked though, that's a big problem.

moderatelyfatman · March 6

I think two small adjustments would go a long way into fixing things:

1. No heal stacking of the same type.
You can have echoing vigor, resolving vigor and radiating regeneration running on you at the same time. You cannot have 10 Echoing Vigors stacked and running to make you unkillable even when Negated.

2. No stage 3 vampire passive.
The so called unkillable tank meta would be very different if this was removed. It's absolutely ridiculous right now that every player in Cyrodiil is either a stage 3 or stage 4 vampire.

pokrakus · March 6

Like me, you have a problem with zergs, but the solution should ONLY be implemented against zergs.
I only play PvP no-cp, that's about 95% of my activity (we need BG no-cp) pve is just boring. 90% of the time I play solo or in a small scale, max 4 people, in Cyro and IC.
Now if you nerf the healing and blocking, the only beneficiary will actually be NB. There will be no counter to this class. There is only healing and blocking, allowing you to survive cloaking and burst dmg. I don't understand why ppl like the idea of killing ppl in 3sec. Its just broken to be able to do so.

BenTSG wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

- Something logical like the set Langour of Peryite. Change the measly 6% damage to a block target to, ignore 60% of the block mitigation when attacking from behind. Make the tank work for their mitigation.

I actually really like this idea that block, in PvP, requires blocking in the direction of the attack.

Only NB can benefit from it.

The solution against Zerg is to punish healing in larger groups, plain and simple. For example, if you are in a group of 5+, Battle Spirit should reduce your healing by 75% or some scaling based on group size, maybe -5% healing per person in the group until you reach the healing debuff limit of 75%....

Please do not touch blocks and healing for single players and small groups. If the fight looks like "the winner is the one who initiates the fight first", who will benefit from it? The IC will be an empty dead zone with only large groups and NBs... (hmm are we already there?). This is exactly the opposite of solving the problem of Zergs.