Why Housing is still behind the eso+ wall...?

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BenjaminGasper
It's been many years since housing was added to elder scrolls online, yet players still don't have any other choice than spending their real money to fully enjoy decorating 'their' houses. I said 'their', because even though houses in elder scrolls online are literally THE most expensive items we can purchase in crown store, some cost up to 15k crowns , we don't really own them, more like rent them...
Imagine spending hundreds of dollars on houses and then additionally paying for eso+ just to be able to actually fully decorate them...( it really feels like renting a house)

This discussion is not about the questioning the existence of eso+ subscription itself but challenging the idea of 'Increased Furniture placement limits' being one of the benefits of eso+.

Probably the most important benefit of eso+ is access to all DLC game packs, but here players were actually given an option to counter that by permanently unlocking DLCs by buying them from crown store.
All other eso+ benefits like: 10% increase to Experience & Gold, Crafting Inspiration, Trait Research, and Archival Fortunes rates, Double bank space and Craft Bag are quality of life improvements and bonuses to progression which players can choose if they want to, but they don't stop players from fully enjoying any aspect of the game , like questing, pve ,pvp ect once they aquired all DLCs.
For some reason developers thought it would be fair to treat 'double housing slots' benefit same way as 'double bank space' or 'Double Transmute Crystal capacity', but these are completely different things. One is directly linked to one of the most important aspect of the game, which is housing, others are just QoL improvements as I mentioned ealier.

Every player plays this game a bit different, some only pve, other mostly pvp, many just enjoying questing or do a mix of everything, but only Housing enthusiasts really NEED to buy eso+ to fully enjoy housing aspect of this game. It's almost like allowing pvp enthusiasts to use only half the skills available or unlocking only half the quests for questing enthusiasts unless they buy eso+.

Over last 3 years many of my friends from housing guild quit because of the fact they had to pay for decorating their houses. They switch to other games , where they could be creative without the need of regular payments. Many of those players could have contributed a lot even without subscribing to eso+ by buying furnishings packs and houses.

eso 10th anniversary is behind the corner and I think its time to exclude housing from eso+ benefits or AT LEAST give players an option to permanently unlock it for crowns...

I encourage other players to share their opinion on this topic here.

  • TheNuminous1
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    Hmmm I've never considered that when we buy crown houses we should ALWAYS have 700 slots active. Just cause they cost so much. I've spent well over 1000$ on houses. But your right if I ever stop paying I lose access to changing them up or adding to them.

    I agree that crown store exclusive houses should have full slots always. Regardless of eso plus or not.
  • BenjaminGasper
    Hmmm I've never considered that when we buy crown houses we should ALWAYS have 700 slots active. Just cause they cost so much. I've spent well over 1000$ on houses. But your right if I ever stop paying I lose access to changing them up or adding to them.

    I agree that crown store exclusive houses should have full slots always. Regardless of eso plus or not.

    That is exactly what I mean. The moment you stop paying for eso+ you basically become more like a visitor in your 'own' house. Full slots option outside eso+ should be available to housing in general too, not only crown store exclusive houses in my opinion.
  • valenwood_vegan
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    Yeah personally I think at the very least... the expensive houses that we *buy with crowns* should come with all slots unlocked.
  • kah
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    I agree. It does feel like renting, especially on the 700 slot houses. It's always a shock to see 350 when I don't have plus even after I've spent so much money on the houses themselves.
  • Moothos
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    I agree.

    It's weird that we can buy DLC for a fraction of the price of a house and have unlimited access, but a house requires a massive initial purchase, and then a subscription on top of that to fully use it. It's hard to call the 350 slots from the subscription a bonus when it feels like they are actually a necessity to fill up a notable house (and in many cases this limit is still too small). It's more like a notable house without a subscription is just the demo version, which costs over $100 in crowns to get. There is more content in DLC for far less, and it's just not right.
  • JustLovely
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    I didn't start playing ESO for housing. Couldn't car less about it. Personally I think it's a distraction and takes away from the combat and fun of the game. I think ESO would be much better off without the housing system.
  • BenjaminGasper
    JustLovely wrote: »
    I didn't start playing ESO for housing. Couldn't car less about it. Personally I think it's a distraction and takes away from the combat and fun of the game. I think ESO would be much better off without the housing system.

    I didn't start playing ESO for pvp for example, that doesn't mean i think ESO would be better off without pvp >> Every community contributes to this game in some way.
    It's your opinion, i get it, but it's also completely off topic here...
  • Jaimeh
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    I get why they added the extra slots to the sub perks, they have to add different perks to anticipate many playstyles, so from their financial PoV it makes sense. I don't think the sub perks are the main issue with housing however, it's the prices themselves: 10k+ crowns for a digital asset, when the whole game costs less, is just ridiculous. They should offer at least some of the houses they release for in-game gold as well, and not just once every few years.
  • valenwood_vegan
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    JustLovely wrote: »
    I didn't start playing ESO for housing. Couldn't car less about it. Personally I think it's a distraction and takes away from the combat and fun of the game. I think ESO would be much better off without the housing system.

    I'm genuinely curious how housing "takes away from the combat and fun of the game?" Like... just... don't do it if you don't want to? Why read and respond to a post about housing? There are a ton of sub-forums with combat related posts that you might enjoy more?
  • BenjaminGasper
    Jaimeh wrote: »
    I get why they added the extra slots to the sub perks, they have to add different perks to anticipate many playstyles, so from their financial PoV it makes sense. I don't think the sub perks are the main issue with housing however, it's the prices themselves: 10k+ crowns for a digital asset, when the whole game costs less, is just ridiculous. They should offer at least some of the houses they release for in-game gold as well, and not just once every few years.

    House prices in crown store are indeed ridiculous... Sure, some people still buy them, but I am certain, so many more would buy them( even at that price tag) if they were not forced to subscribe to eso+ forever to maintain those houses.
    Here comes the financial aspect you mensioned Jaimeh. Extra slots as sub perk might seem like a good deal for Devs, but from my own experience, it really isn't, definitely not long term. I have seen too many people from housing community quit the game for good, simply because they didn't want to subscribe to eso+ forever. They would have kept buying houses, furnishing packs, as well as Chapters every year as they did before if they hadn't quit. Now Devs don't get ANY money from those players...Sure, they need some steady income to maintain and update the game, but loosing player base at the same time defeat the purpose.
  • SaffronCitrusflower
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    I'm genuinely curious how housing "takes away from the combat and fun of the game?" Like... just... don't do it if you don't want to? Why read and respond to a post about housing? There are a ton of sub-forums with combat related posts that you might enjoy more?

    ZOS has done nothing but reduce their resources dedicated to Cyrodiil since housing was introduced. Housing does, in fact, directly rob resources from other aspects of the game. There are plenty of other games that are dedicated to housing. It has proven to be a huge mistake for ZOS to make it a feature in ESO. Trials and PvP are virtually non existent activities now with so many resources dedicated to housing.
  • Jaimeh
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    House prices in crown store are indeed ridiculous... Sure, some people still buy them, but I am certain, so many more would buy them( even at that price tag) if they were not forced to subscribe to eso+ forever to maintain those houses.
    Here comes the financial aspect you mensioned Jaimeh. Extra slots as sub perk might seem like a good deal for Devs, but from my own experience, it really isn't, definitely not long term. I have seen too many people from housing community quit the game for good, simply because they didn't want to subscribe to eso+ forever. They would have kept buying houses, furnishing packs, as well as Chapters every year as they did before if they hadn't quit. Now Devs don't get ANY money from those players...Sure, they need some steady income to maintain and update the game, but loosing player base at the same time defeat the purpose.

    The thing is people who are usually into housing need the craft bag anyway for all the mats, style stones, etc.. so they would get it for that reason alone. It's totally possible to play without it, I have many alts and just made use of the free plus trials for some time, but although it's not mandatory, I think most housing enthusiasts would just have it for the craft bag alone. It does suck that you can't change or remove not one piece of item from the house if the sub runs out, they could at least have made it so that you can still change around the existing furnishing, and not be able to add new ones, and if they don't want to make the slots completely free, to at least sell upgrade packs in the store, but something tells me that since they are not changing things they must have metrics that indicate the way its set up is more profitable.
  • BenjaminGasper
    Jaimeh wrote: »

    The thing is people who are usually into housing need the craft bag anyway for all the mats, style stones, etc.. so they would get it for that reason alone. It's totally possible to play without it, I have many alts and just made use of the free plus trials for some time, but although it's not mandatory, I think most housing enthusiasts would just have it for the craft bag alone. It does suck that you can't change or remove not one piece of item from the house if the sub runs out, they could at least have made it so that you can still change around the existing furnishing, and not be able to add new ones, and if they don't want to make the slots completely free, to at least sell upgrade packs in the store, but something tells me that since they are not changing things they must have metrics that indicate the way its set up is more profitable.

    The crafting bag is super convenient, no doubt about it, but paradoxically people who need it the most are new players, not necessarily in the first few months but lets say 6-12 months of playing. The reason for that is simple, many veteran players, including housing enthusiasts have been contributing to the game by buying eso+ for years, making their crafting bags stuffed with all materials that would last them for years (after that, day to day activities like doing writs ect can be easily managed without eso+). New players need to fill their bags up first, otherwise they can be very easily overwhelmed with inventory thing.
    For many players ( including many of my friends and myself) crafting bag is not as important as it might seem after years of playing. So maybe its time for devs to finally appreciate those veteran players who often spent hundreds or thousands of dollars on this game and give them option to unlock all slots in housing without eso+ instead of letting them go...
    Many of those veteran players invite their friends to elder scrolls online. Personally i recommended this game to 5 friends, who play regurarly, often advising them to subscribe to eso+ for at least few months at some point.

    I don't know what metrics they use and what it indicates, maybe it is more profitable or maybe it's not and they just cling to that no matter what , hoping for something to change...
  • TheNuminous1
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    ZOS has done nothing but reduce their resources dedicated to Cyrodiil since housing was introduced. Housing does, in fact, directly rob resources from other aspects of the game. There are plenty of other games that are dedicated to housing. It has proven to be a huge mistake for ZOS to make it a feature in ESO. Trials and PvP are virtually non existent activities now with so many resources dedicated to housing.

    Your upset cause more people like the housing system then the pvp one? That's not our fault and has nothing to do with us.
  • Northwold
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    ZOS has done nothing but reduce their resources dedicated to Cyrodiil since housing was introduced. Housing does, in fact, directly rob resources from other aspects of the game. There are plenty of other games that are dedicated to housing. It has proven to be a huge mistake for ZOS to make it a feature in ESO. Trials and PvP are virtually non existent activities now with so many resources dedicated to housing.

    Er, which do you think is more likely to pay the bills that enable any work at all? 70 dollar houses, or zero dollar PVP?
    Edited by Northwold on February 26, 2024 9:06PM
  • thecatsme0w
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    The craft bag and double housing slots are way I subscribe to ESO plus a year at a time. Ok and the double bank for my furniture hoard.
    thecatsme0w
    PC/NA

    Eventual goal: Own all the houses. Currently 5 short of that goal.
  • SaffronCitrusflower
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    Northwold wrote: »

    Er, which do you think is more likely to pay the bills that enable any work at all? 70 dollar houses, or zero dollar PVP?

    Except the PvP players spend tons of money on the game. They buy every expansion for the new best sets to stay top of the line competitive in PvP. It's simply not factually accurate that PvP players don't spend a ton of money on the game. PvP is everything PvE, plus PvP. Most PvP players spend more on the game than most PvE players.

    Edited by SaffronCitrusflower on March 6, 2024 4:35PM
  • anadandy
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    ZOS has done nothing but reduce their resources dedicated to Cyrodiil since housing was introduced. Housing does, in fact, directly rob resources from other aspects of the game. There are plenty of other games that are dedicated to housing. It has proven to be a huge mistake for ZOS to make it a feature in ESO. Trials and PvP are virtually non existent activities now with so many resources dedicated to housing.

    Citation needed.
    Edited by anadandy on March 7, 2024 2:40PM
  • valenwood_vegan
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    This game centers around me, I spend the most money and personally keep the servers running, and everything I don't enjoy about the game should be deleted. That pretty much the idea? Good luck with that.

    Shame the actual topic of this post got lost.
  • ProudMary
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    anadandy wrote: »

    Citation needed.

    They don't need to post a citation lolz.

    It's just a fact that the PvP players that want to stay cutting edge have to buy all the new releases because ZOS, almost always anyway, puts the premier gear in their new releases. Myself, I spent over $3,200 on the game up until U35 when it became obvious ZOS was never going to invest into Cyrodiil PvP anymore and disregard other important feedback, so I finally stopped giving them money and suffering the consequences in terms of competitiveness in PvP.
  • Northwold
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    ProudMary wrote: »

    They don't need to post a citation lolz.

    It's just a fact that the PvP players that want to stay cutting edge have to buy all the new releases because ZOS, almost always anyway, puts the premier gear in their new releases. Myself, I spent over $3,200 on the game up until U35 when it became obvious ZOS was never going to invest into Cyrodiil PvP anymore and disregard other important feedback, so I finally stopped giving them money and suffering the consequences in terms of competitiveness in PvP.

    A lot of players buy every expansion. This is not a PvP thing. Some people buy them to play the content in the expansions. It's very strange but these people exist.
    Edited by Northwold on March 9, 2024 11:18AM
  • BenjaminGasper
    Let's not deviate from the main topic of this post guys.
  • kah
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    I know someone suggested implementing a furnishing craft bag. If they added something like that for plus instead of adding furnishing limits, I think that'd be a decent compromise.
  • Alastrine
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    Jaimeh wrote: »
    I get why they added the extra slots to the sub perks, they have to add different perks to anticipate many playstyles, so from their financial PoV it makes sense. I don't think the sub perks are the main issue with housing however, it's the prices themselves: 10k+ crowns for a digital asset, when the whole game costs less, is just ridiculous. They should offer at least some of the houses they release for in-game gold as well, and not just once every few years.

    Many major homes can be purchased with in-game gold, albeit unfurnished. They only have a questing achievement needed to be able to buy them. Depending on the size of the zone it will be a large number of quests completed within that zone and you can then purchase a large house in the zone for in game gold.
    Such as,
    Gardiner House in Wayrest (Stormhaven)
    Mistveil Manor in Riften (the Rift)
    Proudspire Manor in Solitude (Skyrim)
    Emissary's Enclave in the Telvanni Peninsula (Necrom)
    Water's Edge in Blackwood
    to name a few.

    I agree, I think all of the houses should be available for in-game gold at some point but I get why they are not. It's a business, and buying crowns or subbing for houses is part of the carrot on a stick they dangle. I'm glad for the ones we are able to buy at least.

    I would be happy to buy furnishing increases in the crown store even. Not all my houses would need it but the biggest and most spread out, yea. If they offered say, a crown store item that increased a specific house by 100 furnishings (subbed or not), I would be all over that. They could put a limit on it, say you could purchase that increase only twice for a certain house.

    And that package would not double with Plus. Only the initial limit doubles with Plus, same as now. You'd just get to add on the extras to whatever the game is including for a house.

    Example... You don't have ESO Plus and your base large house has 350 slots. You buy 2 packs from crown store that add 100 slots each, so your house now has 550 slots. You get plus and that 350 doubles to 700.. and you have your 2 packs of 100 so your home, with Plus, now has 900 slots.

    Personally, I think it would be a money maker for ZoS.
  • BenjaminGasper
    Alastrine wrote: »

    Many major homes can be purchased with in-game gold, albeit unfurnished. They only have a questing achievement needed to be able to buy them. Depending on the size of the zone it will be a large number of quests completed within that zone and you can then purchase a large house in the zone for in game gold.
    Such as,
    Gardiner House in Wayrest (Stormhaven)
    Mistveil Manor in Riften (the Rift)
    Proudspire Manor in Solitude (Skyrim)
    Emissary's Enclave in the Telvanni Peninsula (Necrom)
    Water's Edge in Blackwood
    to name a few.

    I agree, I think all of the houses should be available for in-game gold at some point but I get why they are not. It's a business, and buying crowns or subbing for houses is part of the carrot on a stick they dangle. I'm glad for the ones we are able to buy at least.

    I would be happy to buy furnishing increases in the crown store even. Not all my houses would need it but the biggest and most spread out, yea. If they offered say, a crown store item that increased a specific house by 100 furnishings (subbed or not), I would be all over that. They could put a limit on it, say you could purchase that increase only twice for a certain house.

    And that package would not double with Plus. Only the initial limit doubles with Plus, same as now. You'd just get to add on the extras to whatever the game is including for a house.

    Example... You don't have ESO Plus and your base large house has 350 slots. You buy 2 packs from crown store that add 100 slots each, so your house now has 550 slots. You get plus and that 350 doubles to 700.. and you have your 2 packs of 100 so your home, with Plus, now has 900 slots.

    Personally, I think it would be a money maker for ZoS.

    I agree, it would be a money maker for ZOS but only IF base number of slots was the same for both eso+ and non eso+ players in my opinion.
    I really doubt anyone without eso+ would spend their crowns to increase slots number from 350 to 550 and...still be below eso+ 700 slots...
    I like the idea but like I said, if housing was excluded from eso+ perks way more people would be interested in spending their crowns for their homes.
    Not everyone can afford eso+ regurarly, and many players are discouraged from housing and game in general (housing ethusiasts) during 'lean months'. Keeping them in game and engaged in housing would be profitable long term with some crown store options for example, such as your idea.
  • BenjaminGasper
    kah wrote: »
    I know someone suggested implementing a furnishing craft bag. If they added something like that for plus instead of adding furnishing limits, I think that'd be a decent compromise.

    That would be a decent compromise INDEED. Making much more sense.
  • Alastrine
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    I agree, it would be a money maker for ZOS but only IF base number of slots was the same for both eso+ and non eso+ players in my opinion.
    I really doubt anyone without eso+ would spend their crowns to increase slots number from 350 to 550 and...still be below eso+ 700 slots...
    I like the idea but like I said, if housing was excluded from eso+ perks way more people would be interested in spending their crowns for their homes.
    Not everyone can afford eso+ regurarly, and many players are discouraged from housing and game in general (housing ethusiasts) during 'lean months'. Keeping them in game and engaged in housing would be profitable long term with some crown store options for example, such as your idea.

    The goal here is to somehow make extra slots available to those that don't have Plus. Not to punish Plus members by taking away one of their perks, that wouldn't work at all, what sense would that make.

    Depending on the cost I bet a lot of players without plus would invest in those packs. The intent is to give them a way to furnish their houses better, not to bring them up to Plus level without having to pay the Plus premium, which is what you are trying to do, and ya... no. It would negate that perk that Plus members are paying for.

    Even better, maybe make the added slot packs available for endeavor seals or even buyable from an NPC for writ vouchers or in game gold... and just like the storage chests, once you buy one type it is not available for you to buy again. That would make it even easier for those who Plus is out of reach for and possibly buying crowns for purchases is as well.

    I have Plus on my major accounts and I'd definitely still buy packs like that to increase the slots on my houses. Not all of them. Just the really big ones because in those its difficult to get the 'homey' feel by having lots of stuff on tables and shelves etc. and extensive gardens and so on even with the extra slots Plus gives. I find the 'mid range' homes usually have enough slots given the size of the home to make them pretty nice (with Plus extra slots of course).

    I bet LOTS of Plus members would still spend their crowns on added slots, no question.

    I get your point about many not being able to afford ESO Plus, however - and I don't mean to sound insensitive here - that is not the problem or fault of those who CAN afford to have Plus. Craft Bag and the Crowns are definitely the main draw for Plus but the double housing and bank slots are a pretty big thing too.

    No way could they take any of those away from Plus since it's been a part of it for so long - I think it would cause an uproar. They'd have to balance it out with something else, like more crowns and then there would be people upset about that.... because many people who don't have Plus always seem to be upset by what people who do have it get with it (from housing and banking slots to little free housing items etc.).

  • Alastrine
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    That would be a decent compromise INDEED. Making much more sense.

    As a Plus member, I'd rather have the housing slots, as it is now.
    A furnishing bag would be awesome, but I can control my furnishing inventories.
    For my few accounts that only have Plus intermittently that would be ugh.. when they lose craft bag it's easy to keep flowers and such they get in their bank as they stack. But if suddenly I had to go back to storing all furniture I get in the bank bc I can't add it to a furnishing bag any longer... blarg.

    A furniture bag that is purchased separately at same cost for everyone - that would be a great thing! But I would not swap my Plus housing slots for it.

    Another great thing I'd love? Being able to decon furniture for mats, something else we are lacking. Even if all we could decon is only furniture that is player made.
    Edited by Alastrine on March 30, 2024 4:27AM
  • BenjaminGasper
    Alastrine wrote: »

    As a Plus member, I'd rather have the housing slots, as it is now.
    A furnishing bag would be awesome, but I can control my furnishing inventories.
    For my few accounts that only have Plus intermittently that would be ugh.. when they lose craft bag it's easy to keep flowers and such they get in their bank as they stack. But if suddenly I had to go back to storing all furniture I get in the bank bc I can't add it to a furnishing bag any longer... blarg.

    A furniture bag that is purchased separately at same cost for everyone - that would be a great thing! But I would not swap my Plus housing slots for it.

    Another great thing I'd love? Being able to decon furniture for mats, something else we are lacking. Even if all we could decon is only furniture that is player made.

    The whole idea behind this discussion is not about punishing eso+ subscribers but making eso+ more 'play style' neutral...
    I explained what i mean by that in details in my very first post here.
    I am PLUS member myself and been playing for a long time but what I have noticed is that majority of my friends or guild members who chose not to sub, and have been successfully playing like that for months or years are ONLY the ones who have zero or little interest in housing. On the other hand players who like/love housing and don't want to pay for just ONE eso+ perk are dropping out regularly, even people who can afford eso+ and sitting on 50k crowns on their accounts.
    That is why i think replacing housing slots perk with quality of life improvements ideas like 'furnishing bag' for example makes much more sense, since literally ALL othe eso+ benefits are nothing else than QoL improvements...
    PLUS members would still benefit greatly for their money since for vast majority of them QoL stuff is main factor anyway.
  • Alastrine
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    The whole idea behind this discussion is not about punishing eso+ subscribers but making eso+ more 'play style' neutral...
    I explained what i mean by that in details in my very first post here.
    I am PLUS member myself and been playing for a long time but what I have noticed is that majority of my friends or guild members who chose not to sub, and have been successfully playing like that for months or years are ONLY the ones who have zero or little interest in housing. On the other hand players who like/love housing and don't want to pay for just ONE eso+ perk are dropping out regularly, even people who can afford eso+ and sitting on 50k crowns on their accounts.
    That is why i think replacing housing slots perk with quality of life improvements ideas like 'furnishing bag' for example makes much more sense, since literally ALL othe eso+ benefits are nothing else than QoL improvements...
    PLUS members would still benefit greatly for their money since for vast majority of them QoL stuff is main factor anyway.

    I quite understand what you're getting at, but as I said, taking a perk away from the Plus membership is wrong. Plus is not supposed to be 'play style' neutral. It's supposed to be 'better' in some ways than playing without it. That's what we pay for.
    I am ALL for giving non-plus folks a way to increase their housing slots - and thats what I said - even making it through endeavor seals or writ vouchers to make it 'cost' free.
    All that would be great and I support it 100%.
    Removing the perk from Plus, which should STILL take their slots higher than non Plus... no. I don't support that at all. Finding a way to increase housing slots for those without Plus would be wonderful, but Plus should always be just that much better.
    I also get your suggestion of a furnishing bag replacing the added Plus slots, I - as a Plus member - just don't happen to agree with it and just IMO, that switch adds nothing to any QoL. I would feel I'm getting less for my money and no, I wouldn't be happy. That is my opinion on it. You can feel it makes sense, etc., but I just don't agree with you.
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