Hey DPS Stop standing so Far away in combat!!

ElderSmitter

There is Melee then there is Ranged and then there is WTH is this Player doing range. I always post in group chat when i am running Spaulder of Ruin and PA for instance and it always makes me laugh when a player is so far away that any buff no matter what it is can't reach them. Maybe something that is 100 meters lol... I don't think you need to be 45 meters away to use your HA Build. Please come close and enjoy the many buffs I try to hand out as a Tank. Just think you can be receiving Spaulder of Ruin and Powerful Assault if you just came within 12 meters. That is a combined 567 DPS added to your HA build.. Oh and it will keep that 1 trash add from going so far away that I cannot chain it in causing you to run even farther away lol.

Cheers!

Vulkunne

ElderSmitter wrote: »

There is Melee then there is Ranged and then there is WTH is this Player doing range. I always post in group chat when i am running Spaulder of Ruin and PA for instance and it always makes me laugh when a player is so far away that any buff no matter what it is can't reach them. Maybe something that is 100 meters lol... I don't think you need to be 45 meters away to use your HA Build. Please come close and enjoy the many buffs I try to hand out as a Tank. Just think you can be receiving Spaulder of Ruin and Powerful Assault if you just came within 12 meters. That is a combined 567 DPS added to your HA build.. Oh and it will keep that 1 trash add from going so far away that I cannot chain it in causing you to run even farther away lol.

Cheers!

If yur running a bunch of specific group buffs then might want to tell your group that. Bow for example does more damage farther out, others might just have their own reason for not stacking too close.

Communication before blame.

SpacemanSpiff1

the big monster is scary. i dont wanna get too close.

Soarora

Vulkunne wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

There is Melee then there is Ranged and then there is WTH is this Player doing range. I always post in group chat when i am running Spaulder of Ruin and PA for instance and it always makes me laugh when a player is so far away that any buff no matter what it is can't reach them. Maybe something that is 100 meters lol... I don't think you need to be 45 meters away to use your HA Build. Please come close and enjoy the many buffs I try to hand out as a Tank. Just think you can be receiving Spaulder of Ruin and Powerful Assault if you just came within 12 meters. That is a combined 567 DPS added to your HA build.. Oh and it will keep that 1 trash add from going so far away that I cannot chain it in causing you to run even farther away lol.

Cheers!

If yur running a bunch of specific group buffs then might want to tell your group that. Bow for example does more damage farther out, others might just have their own reason for not stacking too close.

Communication before blame.

It is a part of a DPS’ job to stand in front of the healer unless they’re doing mechanics. Any half decent healer is running combat prayer and in order to get that buff (let alone any other), one has to be in front of the healer. Same with orb. I’ve even had a pug group where one person dropped their DK standard in group then ran out of it to stand in the corner and use their bow, completely negating the point of using standard. Bows do more damage at close range now and you can use vateshran bow to increase the damage even further at close range, it’s not an excuse for inconveniencing the healer. Not in front of the healer? Then don’t get healed or buffed.

I run ranged DPS and have to remind myself to stand in front of the healer often, but if I’m not in front of the healer when I could’ve been and die, that’s my fault.

Dragonnord

Blame the creation of the one click heavy attack easy mode magsorc.
 

Dragonnord

Vulkunne wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

There is Melee then there is Ranged and then there is WTH is this Player doing range. I always post in group chat when i am running Spaulder of Ruin and PA for instance and it always makes me laugh when a player is so far away that any buff no matter what it is can't reach them. Maybe something that is 100 meters lol... I don't think you need to be 45 meters away to use your HA Build. Please come close and enjoy the many buffs I try to hand out as a Tank. Just think you can be receiving Spaulder of Ruin and Powerful Assault if you just came within 12 meters. That is a combined 567 DPS added to your HA build.. Oh and it will keep that 1 trash add from going so far away that I cannot chain it in causing you to run even farther away lol.

Cheers!

If yur running a bunch of specific group buffs then might want to tell your group that. Bow for example does more damage farther out, others might just have their own reason for not stacking too close.

Communication before blame.

Completely wrong. Regardless your weapon specifications, the further you go back is never behind the healer.

Otherwise play solo mode, not in a group, position whenever you want and heal your own self.

But if you are in a group, respect the composition and positions.
 

Vulkunne

Dragonnord wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

There is Melee then there is Ranged and then there is WTH is this Player doing range. I always post in group chat when i am running Spaulder of Ruin and PA for instance and it always makes me laugh when a player is so far away that any buff no matter what it is can't reach them. Maybe something that is 100 meters lol... I don't think you need to be 45 meters away to use your HA Build. Please come close and enjoy the many buffs I try to hand out as a Tank. Just think you can be receiving Spaulder of Ruin and Powerful Assault if you just came within 12 meters. That is a combined 567 DPS added to your HA build.. Oh and it will keep that 1 trash add from going so far away that I cannot chain it in causing you to run even farther away lol.

Cheers!

If yur running a bunch of specific group buffs then might want to tell your group that. Bow for example does more damage farther out, others might just have their own reason for not stacking too close.

Communication before blame.

Completely wrong. Regardless your weapon specifications, the further you go back is never behind the healer.

Otherwise play solo mode, not in a group, position whenever you want and heal your own self.

But if you are in a group, respect the composition and positions.
 

Completely wrong? Was it also wrong *not* to communicate with the group?

Allow me to show a little humility here and remind folks that everyone who joins... what you probably consider to be your group may not understand your rules.

Be courteous and compassionate to those who are not on your level.

Dragonnord

Vulkunne wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

There is Melee then there is Ranged and then there is WTH is this Player doing range. I always post in group chat when i am running Spaulder of Ruin and PA for instance and it always makes me laugh when a player is so far away that any buff no matter what it is can't reach them. Maybe something that is 100 meters lol... I don't think you need to be 45 meters away to use your HA Build. Please come close and enjoy the many buffs I try to hand out as a Tank. Just think you can be receiving Spaulder of Ruin and Powerful Assault if you just came within 12 meters. That is a combined 567 DPS added to your HA build.. Oh and it will keep that 1 trash add from going so far away that I cannot chain it in causing you to run even farther away lol.

Cheers!

If yur running a bunch of specific group buffs then might want to tell your group that. Bow for example does more damage farther out, others might just have their own reason for not stacking too close.

Communication before blame.

Completely wrong. Regardless your weapon specifications, the further you go back is never behind the healer.

Otherwise play solo mode, not in a group, position whenever you want and heal your own self.

But if you are in a group, respect the composition and positions.
 

Completely wrong? Was it also wrong *not* to communicate with the group?

Allow me to show a little humility here and remind folks that everyone who joins... what you probably consider to be your group may not understand your rules.

Be courteous and compassionate to those who are not on your level.

What? It's not about buffs or no buffs or communication about that. Regardless ANYTHING and EVERYTHING, people should never remain behind the healer. It has nothing to do with communication.
 

Vulkunne

Anyways, let me show you guys something real quick. This came from a certain streamers replay, I'm not associates with any of them but I just copied a small piece of this to help illustrate something. Submitted for your approval, Exhibit A:

Some random EP Starter area in Imperial City with people loitering around, with most other starter areas showing similar status...



During this IC event, there were lots of folks just standing around in similar fashion. I actually found the opportunity to speak with some of them, offered to help them even (yes I did this I'm not just saying this now to play a role). But anyways, you know what they said? They didn't care anything about PvP, they weren't going to try and I could go and do uhh... unruly Orc things.

Its not Imperial City's fault these cats didn't have a plan and not my fault that they didn't care. All the guides and good intentions in the world will not fix people not caring about something themselves.

In short they should never have been there to start with and were killed numerous times by multiple meteors. Pillars of salt.

Credit: YouTube > Stam Sorc - Year One Event - Insane PVP Highlights!

Vulkunne

Dragonnord wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

There is Melee then there is Ranged and then there is WTH is this Player doing range. I always post in group chat when i am running Spaulder of Ruin and PA for instance and it always makes me laugh when a player is so far away that any buff no matter what it is can't reach them. Maybe something that is 100 meters lol... I don't think you need to be 45 meters away to use your HA Build. Please come close and enjoy the many buffs I try to hand out as a Tank. Just think you can be receiving Spaulder of Ruin and Powerful Assault if you just came within 12 meters. That is a combined 567 DPS added to your HA build.. Oh and it will keep that 1 trash add from going so far away that I cannot chain it in causing you to run even farther away lol.

Cheers!

If yur running a bunch of specific group buffs then might want to tell your group that. Bow for example does more damage farther out, others might just have their own reason for not stacking too close.

Communication before blame.

Completely wrong. Regardless your weapon specifications, the further you go back is never behind the healer.

Otherwise play solo mode, not in a group, position whenever you want and heal your own self.

But if you are in a group, respect the composition and positions.
 

Completely wrong? Was it also wrong *not* to communicate with the group?

Allow me to show a little humility here and remind folks that everyone who joins... what you probably consider to be your group may not understand your rules.

Be courteous and compassionate to those who are not on your level.

What? It's not about buffs or no buffs or communication about that. Regardless ANYTHING and EVERYTHING, people should never remain behind the healer. It has nothing to do with communication.
 

So if its as you say, not about buffs why does it matter where I stand? Again, if you have strong expectations from a group then I had better see some strong communication too. Not everyone does Trials or even like 4 man dailies on a regular basis. They're going to do the best they can until someone tells them otherwise.

I think that's fair. I'm a wizard only with melee weapons but not so much with psychic powers. You never know who you're playing with and its always good to have a friendly introduction and let people know what the deal is. If you don't say nothing to me at first then I don't care about it later. I mean that too, don't matter to me who it is or what guild you're from. Kindness is free and there is no substitute for good customer service.

Dragonnord

Vulkunne wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

There is Melee then there is Ranged and then there is WTH is this Player doing range. I always post in group chat when i am running Spaulder of Ruin and PA for instance and it always makes me laugh when a player is so far away that any buff no matter what it is can't reach them. Maybe something that is 100 meters lol... I don't think you need to be 45 meters away to use your HA Build. Please come close and enjoy the many buffs I try to hand out as a Tank. Just think you can be receiving Spaulder of Ruin and Powerful Assault if you just came within 12 meters. That is a combined 567 DPS added to your HA build.. Oh and it will keep that 1 trash add from going so far away that I cannot chain it in causing you to run even farther away lol.

Cheers!

If yur running a bunch of specific group buffs then might want to tell your group that. Bow for example does more damage farther out, others might just have their own reason for not stacking too close.

Communication before blame.

Completely wrong. Regardless your weapon specifications, the further you go back is never behind the healer.

Otherwise play solo mode, not in a group, position whenever you want and heal your own self.

But if you are in a group, respect the composition and positions.
 

Completely wrong? Was it also wrong *not* to communicate with the group?

Allow me to show a little humility here and remind folks that everyone who joins... what you probably consider to be your group may not understand your rules.

Be courteous and compassionate to those who are not on your level.

What? It's not about buffs or no buffs or communication about that. Regardless ANYTHING and EVERYTHING, people should never remain behind the healer. It has nothing to do with communication.
 

So if its as you say, not about buffs why does it matter where I stand? Again, if you have strong expectations from a group then I had better see some strong communication too. Not everyone does Trials or even like 4 man dailies on a regular basis. They're going to do the best they can until someone tells them otherwise.

I think that's fair. I'm a wizard only with melee weapons but not so much with psychic powers. You never know who you're playing with and its always good to have a friendly introduction and let people know what the deal is. If you don't say nothing to me at first then I don't care about it later. I mean that too, don't matter to me who it is or what guild you're from. Kindness is free and there is no substitute for good customer service.

Because... it does?

Then group for a 4-man dungeon, NO COMMS at all, no one speaks, never, no indications, ok? And the tank stays far away from the boss, one dps stands right in front of the boss, the healer stays so far away that he/she can't heal anyone, and the other dps stays in the middle of a group of adds that are about to heavy attack all at once.

Tell me that, even without comms, even if the leader says anything, tell me it doesn't matter where you stand.
 

ApoAlaia

No.

My offensive skills have effective ranges of up to 28m and by Z'en I am going to max that out.

I consider it my personal responsibility, no, my sacred duty to stand so far that the LoD settings start considering the rest of the party 'distant obejcts' for rendering purposes.

Unless of course is a boss and it has a mean cleave in which case I will definitely stand right behind you.

You're welcome.

Vulkunne

Dragonnord wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

Dragonnord wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

There is Melee then there is Ranged and then there is WTH is this Player doing range. I always post in group chat when i am running Spaulder of Ruin and PA for instance and it always makes me laugh when a player is so far away that any buff no matter what it is can't reach them. Maybe something that is 100 meters lol... I don't think you need to be 45 meters away to use your HA Build. Please come close and enjoy the many buffs I try to hand out as a Tank. Just think you can be receiving Spaulder of Ruin and Powerful Assault if you just came within 12 meters. That is a combined 567 DPS added to your HA build.. Oh and it will keep that 1 trash add from going so far away that I cannot chain it in causing you to run even farther away lol.

Cheers!

If yur running a bunch of specific group buffs then might want to tell your group that. Bow for example does more damage farther out, others might just have their own reason for not stacking too close.

Communication before blame.

Completely wrong. Regardless your weapon specifications, the further you go back is never behind the healer.

Otherwise play solo mode, not in a group, position whenever you want and heal your own self.

But if you are in a group, respect the composition and positions.
 

Completely wrong? Was it also wrong *not* to communicate with the group?

Allow me to show a little humility here and remind folks that everyone who joins... what you probably consider to be your group may not understand your rules.

Be courteous and compassionate to those who are not on your level.

What? It's not about buffs or no buffs or communication about that. Regardless ANYTHING and EVERYTHING, people should never remain behind the healer. It has nothing to do with communication.
 

So if its as you say, not about buffs why does it matter where I stand? Again, if you have strong expectations from a group then I had better see some strong communication too. Not everyone does Trials or even like 4 man dailies on a regular basis. They're going to do the best they can until someone tells them otherwise.

I think that's fair. I'm a wizard only with melee weapons but not so much with psychic powers. You never know who you're playing with and its always good to have a friendly introduction and let people know what the deal is. If you don't say nothing to me at first then I don't care about it later. I mean that too, don't matter to me who it is or what guild you're from. Kindness is free and there is no substitute for good customer service.

Because... it does?

Then group for a 4-man dungeon, NO COMMS at all, no one speaks, never, no indications, ok? And the tank stays far away from the boss, one dps stands right in front of the boss, the healer stays so far away that he/she can't heal anyone, and the other dps stays in the middle of a group of adds that are about to heavy attack all at once.

Tell me that, even without comms, even if the leader says anything, tell me it doesn't matter where you stand.
 

Well I mean in fairness the healer is umm more like an HR role. Its there for compliance purposes and little more. I mean, many groups I've been in the heals are I guess a 'positive' thing but they don't go very far. So in general my expectation for most healers is so low its next to dinosaur bones. As for the Tank, we have to think about what is a tank. You probably mean like a traditional Tank? But a Traditional tank requires a Traditional group rich in fiber and wholesome, which that too doesn't usually happen either. I mean you get DPS who can't rotate and Tanks who can't DPS . Mad world out there.

That's why say to be careful with expectations, even IF you're right, people have a way of sort of introducing unforeseen variables and a reasonable expectation is to understand that you might need to teach them something first before they can follow a stronger doctrine for Trials groups or what have you. The days of getting good roles out of the box are over and as we've discussed in PvP its getting late in the day and time to start really hunkering down on what works vs what is too heavy handed, either by the server or for the group itself.

Ardriel

... yes and please DPS, stop dancing in front of bosses and other dangerous guys. That's what I really hate when tanking. I always turn bosses away from group but then some kamikaze healer or dps jumps in front of them. Please don't do that. Always stay behind enemies unless it's not possible like in Sunspire. Then stay with the group. And not at tank position. We need a dungeon or raid tutorial for the game. At least a basic tutorial for group content!

Rowjoh

I'm allergic to buffs.

That's why I always carry an Oakensoul.

Daoin

theres simply no way a group of 4 players can always stand tank dd's middle healer back in eso's random dungeon finder dungeons, it is also possible to make sure heals and buffs like combat prayer are up on all players when not doing so in them, which is just so totally apparent in groups with healers that like to keep the group overhealed all the time or as much as possible, and aslong as the healer is not there to just cast regeneration and or PA once in a while

MidniteOwl1913

I depend on Radiating Regeneration not because I think it's the best but because it heals no matter *where* the DPS is standing, or more like running around like a headless chicken.

Also I can glance at the beams and get an idea of where everyone is.

When the tank does a good job of holding the boss and the DPS are behind the boss. It's really easy for me to layer the heals and provide good buffs. It makes everything go smoother and faster.

Not always possible, but a tank centered with a healing circle is a dungeon standard for a reason.

Daoin

in many many dungeons i have never seen a single dps run around like a headless chicken (with the exception of leaving the group to solo or duo in an attempted speed run, not an achie speedrun but a skip/wipe one. maybe, be where they thought they needed to be but thats totally different besides the fighting stages are simply too small in every area to not get what im saying

manukartofanu

Vulkunne wrote: »

If yur running a bunch of specific group buffs then might want to tell your group that. Bow for example does more damage farther out, others might just have their own reason for not stacking too close.

Communication before blame.

Bow was reworked last summer. It is already doing almost the same damage when you are close.

manukartofanu

ElderSmitter wrote: »

There is Melee then there is Ranged and then there is WTH is this Player doing range. I always post in group chat when i am running Spaulder of Ruin and PA for instance and it always makes me laugh when a player is so far away that any buff no matter what it is can't reach them. Maybe something that is 100 meters lol... I don't think you need to be 45 meters away to use your HA Build. Please come close and enjoy the many buffs I try to hand out as a Tank. Just think you can be receiving Spaulder of Ruin and Powerful Assault if you just came within 12 meters. That is a combined 567 DPS added to your HA build.. Oh and it will keep that 1 trash add from going so far away that I cannot chain it in causing you to run even farther away lol.

Cheers!

It's great that you're handing out buffs and taking out the trash. Now, let's take a look at random teammates from a DPS perspective. For a tank - if they don't let heavy hits from the boss through, they're already better than half of the tanks out there. If they can pull trash mobs effectively, they're a rare gem in the swamp of randomness. Buffs from a random tank? I might have seen them once, a long time ago, not sure if I'm confusing that random with someone from my guild. So, I'd rather check the healer first, as it feels like they distribute buffs more often. If I don't see any improvements, I'm better off running away from them too. And yes, I'll be running around everywhere, dodging, because a living DPS without buffs does more damage than a dead one with buffs.
And when you're playing with randoms a lot, you simply get used to this kind of gameplay, because in 90% of cases, you either play this way or you'll be lying down watching everything from the sidelines.

LunaFlora

i think anyone who doesn't know to stand in front of a healer or just not that far is just new.

it would be helpful to simply tell them to stand closer.

Dragonnord wrote: »

Blame the creation of the one click heavy attack easy mode magsorc.
 

no need as people with a heavy attack oakensoul build can stand closer, any one can. just ask them to stand closer and the problem is solved.

heavy attack oakensoul builds have allowed more people to do more content, it's not bad that they exist.

Daoin

but in dungeons i play healer alot and i dont need the group to be infront of me, i can turn around and anyone who was behind me before is then infront of me, i can put heals down anywhere in the fighting stages and use other healing skills to compliment the HoTs i can focus my major healing in any direction while still healing all around me too in quite a wide range, infact i find it more importan than the dd's do to be the one that can adjust my postion or be where i want when i want or need to be and if the players im with its not a one shot that i cant heal i want all the group to be at and over full health all the time in dungeon no matter where they are in the acceptable proximity for what a tank can reliably be controlling, and to be honest i would advise any dd to add the alliance war self only heal to thier bars in any random group too, which can be got at level 3 rather than the notion of needing to score the most dps so have no self heal on. also importantly i want to know im helping with any builds that are resource heavy for the dd's and tank, then i change to my dd's expecting the same and get one regeneration and nothing else once in a while. my guess is that alot people just dont want to heal in randoms anymore properly. dungeons are so much more easier and enjoyable with an experiences healer and tank in the group that in vet dungeons its just in your face apparent even for level 50 players just entering vets upto 300 entering dlc's. i also want atleast one or 2 combat skills to swap out in groups as a last resort when groups need a little more dps than the tanks and healers buff provide while keeping the same standard of healing

Masteroshi430

SpacemanSpiff1 wrote: »

the big monster is scary. i dont wanna get too close.

"I can't stand this boss' breath, sorry"

wilykcat

Nobody:
Other melee dps-- stands far away from the monsters and boss.
Me--starts charging in "Leeeeerooooy Jenkins!!!!".

Soarora

LunaFlora wrote: »

i think anyone who doesn't know to stand in front of a healer or just not that far is just new.

it would be helpful to simply tell them to stand closer.

That’s what OP is doing by posting this. That said, I do agree if it’s a problem someone should tell them in group chat. I’m sure I’ve done that before at some point.

LunaFlora

Soarora wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

i think anyone who doesn't know to stand in front of a healer or just not that far is just new.

it would be helpful to simply tell them to stand closer.

That’s what OP is doing by posting this. That said, I do agree if it’s a problem someone should tell them in group chat. I’m sure I’ve done that before at some point.

yea i know it'll help for anyone on the forums, but sadly not everyone that it's addressed to will see this

Toanis

Aside from logic saying that ranged weapons are best used at range, players that come from other mmos may have learned other positioning rules, because of different mechanics (or simply traditions):

Wow: Tank - Boss - melee DPS - everyone else spread out = minimize incoming AOE damage
SWTOR: Tank - Boss - melee DPS - ranged huddled around the healer = max AOE healing, catch adds that go for the healer.
ESO: Tank - Boss - all DPS - Healer = DPS get buffed from both sides.
GW2: Boss - Everyone = everyone radiates some buffs, so the ideal raid group is a formless blob of blinding VFX.

Elrond87

found this to be the case as healer as well, one makes sure to stand behind making sure to get no buffs and avoiding heal aoe like its enemy aoe, bal dungeon on hm with that aoe dot on each player they love to spread out and die to that

merpins

I'm a dps, if a trash mob touches me I'll explode.

Naftal

Even if there's no healer or buffs, like half the bosses have a mechanic where they jump on a player if they stand too far away. If this happens you're ruining everyone's dps and positioning.

All builds should be as close to boss as possible. Range builds can keep dealing damage when melee range isn't possible.

ssewallb14_ESO

Toanis wrote: »

Aside from logic saying that ranged weapons are best used at range, players that come from other mmos may have learned other positioning rules, because of different mechanics (or simply traditions):

Wow: Tank - Boss - melee DPS - everyone else spread out = minimize incoming AOE damage
SWTOR: Tank - Boss - melee DPS - ranged huddled around the healer = max AOE healing, catch adds that go for the healer.
ESO: Tank - Boss - all DPS - Healer = DPS get buffed from both sides.
GW2: Boss - Everyone = everyone radiates some buffs, so the ideal raid group is a formless blob of blinding VFX.

I think this is the best explanation.

Not only are ESO's group mechanics counter-intuitive, but most other MMOs make an attempt to be intuitive. A bow or caster should play at range, tank takes hits and controls things, healer heals, etc. There's very minimal conveyance to the player that a bow build with long range passives should be just behind melee, the healer is mostly a support, group members should position to help the tank, etc. It's made worse by the fact that almost no other game does this and at least tries to make the gameplay inline with the theme of the roll.