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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653550/

Nightblade Changes - Good, but More is Needed

IncultaWolf
IncultaWolf
✭✭✭✭✭
This is a step in the right direction to make this class playable, the only thing it needs now is to make cloak a permanent toggle ability, and merciless resolve should not be able to be roll dodged. Nothing feels as bad as working hard to light attack 5 times, build up stacks, then having a 20k bow proc miss in pvp, If it gets roll dodged, at least let me keep the stacks so I can fire it off again. I really love the siphoning strikes change to make it easier to use like grim focus, I just wish cloak got the same treatment and was a toggle because sometimes I forget to press it again before the 3 seconds runs out.
  • Dekrypted
    Dekrypted
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    One MAJOR improvement is to add purge onto cloak. I think with your suggestion on top of this, it will really bring nightblade in line with other classes for pve combat. Pvp is a mess, but this will probably help there too.
    PC NA
    March 2014 - December 2023
    No longer active

    Templar Main
  • Dekrypted
    Dekrypted
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Impale needs to proc 3 times like jabs and need to be renamed shiv. Ramping execute damage as well would be amazing
    PC NA
    March 2014 - December 2023
    No longer active

    Templar Main
  • xDeusEJRx
    xDeusEJRx
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    They also need to buff Drain power to have damage scaling based on how many people are there. If its 1000% more damage per target it'll actually be a usable skill and give it execute scaling below 99% health.
    Solo PvP'er PS5 NA player

    90% of my body is made of Magblade
  • Gopher
    Gopher
    ✭✭✭
    I think we should also add another effect on top of merciless's pre-existing damage.
    I believe it should have some sort of reverse execute scaling effect.
    Meaning, the higher hp % value your opponent has, the more damage it does (with a limit of dropping % so that it cannot hit for a lower value than the base shot) just so that nightblades have an actual true opportunity to one shot their opponent without having to incap in the first place.

    I feel as though my assassin RP is being ruined by the fact that I feel as a failed assassin if my target survives my attack
    I will steal your lettuce and eat your crops.
  • IncultaWolf
    IncultaWolf
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gopher wrote: »
    I think we should also add another effect on top of merciless's pre-existing damage.
    I believe it should have some sort of reverse execute scaling effect.
    Meaning, the higher hp % value your opponent has, the more damage it does (with a limit of dropping % so that it cannot hit for a lower value than the base shot) just so that nightblades have an actual true opportunity to one shot their opponent without having to incap in the first place.

    I feel as though my assassin RP is being ruined by the fact that I feel as a failed assassin if my target survives my attack

    This would be a good change, too many people running around with 40k+ hp, merciless needs a damage buff to compensate for players building tanky
  • IncultaWolf
    IncultaWolf
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dekrypted wrote: »
    Impale needs to proc 3 times like jabs and need to be renamed shiv. Ramping execute damage as well would be amazing

    Good idea, that morph feels lacking for sure!
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    This is a step in the right direction to make this class playable, the only thing it needs now is to make cloak a permanent toggle ability, and merciless resolve should not be able to be roll dodged. Nothing feels as bad as working hard to light attack 5 times, build up stacks, then having a 20k bow proc miss in pvp, If it gets roll dodged, at least let me keep the stacks so I can fire it off again. I really love the siphoning strikes change to make it easier to use like grim focus, I just wish cloak got the same treatment and was a toggle because sometimes I forget to press it again before the 3 seconds runs out.

    I'm not a NB main, so take this with a grain of salt, but how does allowing the hardest hitting skill in the game to be undodgeable make any sense at all? It hits as hard as an ultimate.

    For starters. Undogeable skills are regulated to aoe skills that usually deal less damage compared to single target, that is a part of the core design of the game, so it's just not going to happen unless it becomes aoe and receives a heavy damage nerf to compensate.

    Stick to the second suggestion, I could easily see a situation where when you miss your target, you keep the stacks, but the skill goes on a 3 second cooldown like when a skill gets interrupted during casting. That would be fair for NBs, allow them to reset the fight, but also fair for Counter play so you don't instantly get spammed Grim Focus multiple times when the dodge roll is suppose to counter the NBs burst.

    The toggle idea for Cloak is interesting, it could work similarly to Vampire Blood Frenzy. Make it cost mana per second, but it ramps up each second up to a limit to balance out the fact that you use less GCD's that you can now spend on other actions.

    Example:

    Current cost = 3780
    New cost = 1100/s
    New mechanic = Toggle to Cloak yourself in shadow and become invisible. Each second you remain invisible gives you a stack of Respite up to 5 stacks, increasing the cost by 220 a second.

    The idea being, before 3s it's cheaper than the original skill. At 3s, it costs slightly more (3960), at 6s toggled on, it costs 2200/s to keep up which is obviously higher than the original 3s.

    Not sure about specific numbers, because you would want to be careful that you don't make it free with cost reduction glyphs, but you can see how the general idea would play out. It's not for me to figure out the exact number.

    The ramping cost is a balance requirement necessary to tackle the fact that you're saving GCD's you can use for things like the new Siphoning Strikes to recover resources back from or heal, etc.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on January 31, 2024 3:06AM
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • IncultaWolf
    IncultaWolf
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is a step in the right direction to make this class playable, the only thing it needs now is to make cloak a permanent toggle ability, and merciless resolve should not be able to be roll dodged. Nothing feels as bad as working hard to light attack 5 times, build up stacks, then having a 20k bow proc miss in pvp, If it gets roll dodged, at least let me keep the stacks so I can fire it off again. I really love the siphoning strikes change to make it easier to use like grim focus, I just wish cloak got the same treatment and was a toggle because sometimes I forget to press it again before the 3 seconds runs out.

    I'm not a NB main, so take this with a grain of salt, but how does allowing the hardest hitting skill in the game to be undodgeable make any sense at all? It hits as hard as an ultimate.

    For starters. Undogeable skills are regulated to aoe skills that usually deal less damage compared to single target, that is a part of the core design of the game, so it's just not going to happen unless it becomes aoe and receives a heavy damage nerf to compensate.

    Stick to the second suggestion, I could easily see a situation where when you miss your target, you keep the stacks, but the skill goes on a 3 second cooldown like when a skill gets interrupted during casting. That would be fair for NBs, allow them to reset the fight, but also fair for Counter play so you don't instantly get spammed Grim Focus multiple times when the dodge roll is suppose to counter the NBs burst.

    The toggle idea for Cloak is interesting, it could work similarly to Vampire Blood Frenzy. Make it cost mana per second, but it ramps up each second up to a limit to balance out the fact that you use less GCD's that you can now spend on other actions.

    Example:

    Current cost = 3780
    New cost = 1100/s
    New mechanic = Toggle to Cloak yourself in shadow and become invisible. Each second you remain invisible gives you a stack of Respite up to 5 stacks, increasing the cost by 220 a second.

    The idea being, before 3s it's cheaper than the original skill. At 3s, it costs slightly more (3960), at 6s toggled on, it costs 2200/s to keep up which is obviously higher than the original 3s.

    Not sure about specific numbers, because you would want to be careful that you don't make it free with cost reduction glyphs, but you can see how the general idea would play out. It's not for me to figure out the exact number.

    The ramping cost is a balance requirement necessary to tackle the fact that you're saving GCD's you can use for things like the new Siphoning Strikes to recover resources back from or heal, etc.

    Nb needs the buffs you see
    Edited by IncultaWolf on January 31, 2024 3:10AM
  • Galeriano
    Galeriano
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is this thread serious? Nightblade in PvP is on the path to becoming the most overbuffed class in ESO's history and people want even more buffs? With update 41 it will become S+ tier class in PvP yet people still want things like toggled cloak, undodgable merciless, purge on cloak etc. I will ask once again is this thread serious?

    If anything ZoS should finally put some drawbacks to cloak because at this point there is no excuse to not do it. After U41 nightblade will have everything that other classes have or even more and stealth playstyle on top of it. It's completly unfair towards other classes and there is no longer any excuse to keep cloak the way it is.
    Edited by Galeriano on January 31, 2024 11:17AM
  • silver1surfer69
    silver1surfer69
    ✭✭✭✭
    This is a step in the right direction to make this class playable, the only thing it needs now is to make cloak a permanent toggle ability, and merciless resolve should not be able to be roll dodged. Nothing feels as bad as working hard to light attack 5 times, build up stacks, then having a 20k bow proc miss in pvp, If it gets roll dodged, at least let me keep the stacks so I can fire it off again. I really love the siphoning strikes change to make it easier to use like grim focus, I just wish cloak got the same treatment and was a toggle because sometimes I forget to press it again before the 3 seconds runs out.

    In response to this i started a new discussion with an idea i had a while ago for a cchange to merciless resolve.
    PC/EU
    Loveknight - HybridDK (4*), Stahlstrahlenreiter - StamDen, Azgul Grahl Bashrugk - HybridSorc (5*), Tínúvíél - StamCro, Thógard - StamPlar
  • Galeriano
    Galeriano
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gopher wrote: »
    I think we should also add another effect on top of merciless's pre-existing damage.
    I believe it should have some sort of reverse execute scaling effect.
    Meaning, the higher hp % value your opponent has, the more damage it does (with a limit of dropping % so that it cannot hit for a lower value than the base shot) just so that nightblades have an actual true opportunity to one shot their opponent without having to incap in the first place.

    I feel as though my assassin RP is being ruined by the fact that I feel as a failed assassin if my target survives my attack

    This would be a good change, too many people running around with 40k+ hp, merciless needs a damage buff to compensate for players building tanky

    When will people understand that one of the reasons these 40k+ hp tanks exist are nightblades. Nobody likes to be one tapped out of nowhere by a ganker while fighting someone else and with notoriously increasing nightblade damage potential people are forced to build more and more defense. Yeah sure lets increase nightblade's burst damage just to see these 40k+ hp tanks tunring into 50k+ hp tanks.

    The more damage You add to nightblade kit the more tanky meta You will get at the end.
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    This is a step in the right direction to make this class playable, the only thing it needs now is to make cloak a permanent toggle ability, and merciless resolve should not be able to be roll dodged. Nothing feels as bad as working hard to light attack 5 times, build up stacks, then having a 20k bow proc miss in pvp, If it gets roll dodged, at least let me keep the stacks so I can fire it off again. I really love the siphoning strikes change to make it easier to use like grim focus, I just wish cloak got the same treatment and was a toggle because sometimes I forget to press it again before the 3 seconds runs out.

    I'm not a NB main, so take this with a grain of salt, but how does allowing the hardest hitting skill in the game to be undodgeable make any sense at all? It hits as hard as an ultimate.

    For starters. Undogeable skills are regulated to aoe skills that usually deal less damage compared to single target, that is a part of the core design of the game, so it's just not going to happen unless it becomes aoe and receives a heavy damage nerf to compensate.

    Stick to the second suggestion, I could easily see a situation where when you miss your target, you keep the stacks, but the skill goes on a 3 second cooldown like when a skill gets interrupted during casting. That would be fair for NBs, allow them to reset the fight, but also fair for Counter play so you don't instantly get spammed Grim Focus multiple times when the dodge roll is suppose to counter the NBs burst.

    The toggle idea for Cloak is interesting, it could work similarly to Vampire Blood Frenzy. Make it cost mana per second, but it ramps up each second up to a limit to balance out the fact that you use less GCD's that you can now spend on other actions.

    Example:

    Current cost = 3780
    New cost = 1100/s
    New mechanic = Toggle to Cloak yourself in shadow and become invisible. Each second you remain invisible gives you a stack of Respite up to 5 stacks, increasing the cost by 220 a second.

    The idea being, before 3s it's cheaper than the original skill. At 3s, it costs slightly more (3960), at 6s toggled on, it costs 2200/s to keep up which is obviously higher than the original 3s.

    Not sure about specific numbers, because you would want to be careful that you don't make it free with cost reduction glyphs, but you can see how the general idea would play out. It's not for me to figure out the exact number.

    The ramping cost is a balance requirement necessary to tackle the fact that you're saving GCD's you can use for things like the new Siphoning Strikes to recover resources back from or heal, etc.

    Nb needs the buffs you see

    I don't even understand what your comment means. I was very constructive with my points, I genuinely think they're logical, your comment provides no feedback, clarification, input whatsoever to the topics I addressed.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on January 31, 2024 3:31AM
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • QuasiGumbo
    QuasiGumbo
    ✭✭✭
    This is a step in the right direction to make this class playable, the only thing it needs now is to make cloak a permanent toggle ability, and merciless resolve should not be able to be roll dodged. Nothing feels as bad as working hard to light attack 5 times, build up stacks, then having a 20k bow proc miss in pvp, If it gets roll dodged, at least let me keep the stacks so I can fire it off again. I really love the siphoning strikes change to make it easier to use like grim focus, I just wish cloak got the same treatment and was a toggle because sometimes I forget to press it again before the 3 seconds runs out.

    I fully agree with you mate. I would like to also add that veil of blades feels very underwhelming, I think we should take it and give it some more tender love and care. If you think about it, you are inside a big whirling cloud of blades that is technically shredding anything that enters. One could make the argument that this would shred armor, this could be applied by adding a buff that makes it so the caster ignore armor for anyone caught in the aoe. In addition, major protection is very easily obtain other methods and feels kinda unnecessary here, which could be fixed with a unique damage mitigation to the ultimate such as limiting damage to something like 5% maybe max health?

    A change like this could really bolster the flexibility of Nightblade with this ult in solo PvE content along with instances where DPS has to leave the tank such as portals in cloudrest.

    While we are at it, the other morph, Bolstering darkness, could have the ability to move it around ,maybe once or twice, this would really help as a tank or a healer in various different combat.
  • silver1surfer69
    silver1surfer69
    ✭✭✭✭
    Galeriano wrote: »
    Gopher wrote: »
    I think we should also add another effect on top of merciless's pre-existing damage.
    I believe it should have some sort of reverse execute scaling effect.
    Meaning, the higher hp % value your opponent has, the more damage it does (with a limit of dropping % so that it cannot hit for a lower value than the base shot) just so that nightblades have an actual true opportunity to one shot their opponent without having to incap in the first place.

    I feel as though my assassin RP is being ruined by the fact that I feel as a failed assassin if my target survives my attack

    This would be a good change, too many people running around with 40k+ hp, merciless needs a damage buff to compensate for players building tanky

    When will people understand that one of the reasons these 40k+ hp tanks exist are nightblades. Nobody likes to be one tapped out of nowhere by a ganker while fighting someone else and with notoriously increasing nightblade damage potential people are forced to build more and more defense. Yeah sure lets increase nightblade's burst damage just to see these 40k+ hp tanks tunring into 50k+ hp tanks.

    The more damage You add to nightblade kit the more tanky meta You will get at the end.

    I want to add we should also buff NB heal. Its not only the hardest hitting class in the game (pvp) but in the right hands also the most tanky/survivability class in the game.
    PC/EU
    Loveknight - HybridDK (4*), Stahlstrahlenreiter - StamDen, Azgul Grahl Bashrugk - HybridSorc (5*), Tínúvíél - StamCro, Thógard - StamPlar
  • Remiem
    Remiem
    ✭✭✭
    Too subtle for some people, sorry OP.
    hne7p52d0vsg.jpg
  • Arcanasx
    Arcanasx
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    This is a step in the right direction to make this class playable, the only thing it needs now is to make cloak a permanent toggle ability, and merciless resolve should not be able to be roll dodged. Nothing feels as bad as working hard to light attack 5 times, build up stacks, then having a 20k bow proc miss in pvp, If it gets roll dodged, at least let me keep the stacks so I can fire it off again. I really love the siphoning strikes change to make it easier to use like grim focus, I just wish cloak got the same treatment and was a toggle because sometimes I forget to press it again before the 3 seconds runs out.

    They could further improve merciless resolve by making it so it keeps bouncing towards other enemy players after it hits them within a 22m radius, and up to six times. And a critical hit with any of those hits would activate a "headshot" for an instant kill. Could even come with cool sound effects and a "kill streak" announcement.
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
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    ✭✭✭✭
    Remiem wrote: »
    Too subtle for some people, sorry OP.
    hne7p52d0vsg.jpg

    Oh boy, did I get baited into a sarcastic post? It's really hard to tell nowadays when a NB is being serious or not.

    :|
    Edited by MashmalloMan on January 31, 2024 4:10AM
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • QuasiGumbo
    QuasiGumbo
    ✭✭✭
    Arcanasx wrote: »
    This is a step in the right direction to make this class playable, the only thing it needs now is to make cloak a permanent toggle ability, and merciless resolve should not be able to be roll dodged. Nothing feels as bad as working hard to light attack 5 times, build up stacks, then having a 20k bow proc miss in pvp, If it gets roll dodged, at least let me keep the stacks so I can fire it off again. I really love the siphoning strikes change to make it easier to use like grim focus, I just wish cloak got the same treatment and was a toggle because sometimes I forget to press it again before the 3 seconds runs out.

    They could further improve merciless resolve by making it so it keeps bouncing towards other enemy players after it hits them within a 22m radius, and up to six times. And a critical hit with any of those hits would activate a "headshot" for an instant kill. Could even come with cool sound effects and a "kill streak" announcement.

    Ooo ooo like Kill, double kill, triple kill, killamanjaro, petaultakill, bringer of death??!?
  • Arcanasx
    Arcanasx
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    QuasiGumbo wrote: »
    Arcanasx wrote: »
    This is a step in the right direction to make this class playable, the only thing it needs now is to make cloak a permanent toggle ability, and merciless resolve should not be able to be roll dodged. Nothing feels as bad as working hard to light attack 5 times, build up stacks, then having a 20k bow proc miss in pvp, If it gets roll dodged, at least let me keep the stacks so I can fire it off again. I really love the siphoning strikes change to make it easier to use like grim focus, I just wish cloak got the same treatment and was a toggle because sometimes I forget to press it again before the 3 seconds runs out.

    They could further improve merciless resolve by making it so it keeps bouncing towards other enemy players after it hits them within a 22m radius, and up to six times. And a critical hit with any of those hits would activate a "headshot" for an instant kill. Could even come with cool sound effects and a "kill streak" announcement.

    Ooo ooo like Kill, double kill, triple kill, killamanjaro, petaultakill, bringer of death??!?

    Yes, something like that. And maybe every other player in the vicinity should get to hear it too.
  • Araneae6537
    Araneae6537
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Surely you jest…
  • IncultaWolf
    IncultaWolf
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    xDeusEJRx wrote: »
    They also need to buff Drain power to have damage scaling based on how many people are there. If its 1000% more damage per target it'll actually be a usable skill and give it execute scaling below 99% health.

    The 1000% more damage per target is too strong, but I will agree power extraction needs execute scaling
  • Foxtrot39
    Foxtrot39
    ✭✭✭✭
    I have a hard time figuring out if some comments are sarcastic or genuine at this point
  • Rebiludo
    Rebiludo
    ✭✭✭
    All incultaWolf comment are sarcastic ;)
  • IncultaWolf
    IncultaWolf
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Rebiludo wrote: »
    All incultaWolf comment are sarcastic ;)

    No
  • Dovahmiim
    Dovahmiim
    ✭✭✭
    @IncultaWolf solid bait, I honestly couldn't tell if you were shitposting until a few messages in, lots of pvp NBs unironically think this
    Dovahmiim - VR16 Dunmer Templar - AUS NA PC

    The One Shot Templar est. Update 1.6

    I throw Dark Flares and Javelins at people in Cyrodiil, works pretty well.
    And people say Templar have no burst damage...https://youtu.be/_yfNBqZ4ShY
  • olsborg
    olsborg
    ✭✭✭✭✭
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    To keep the OP theme going; please make corrosive armor last 10 minutes.

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • J18696
    J18696
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah spec bow should bounce between targets and ramp in damage every time it finds a new target buff nb
    PC NA Server
    @J18696
    Characters
    Pridē - Dragonknight
    Vanıty - Arcanist
  • Major_Toughness
    Major_Toughness
    ✭✭✭
    NB gets nerfed but people who don't play NB see it as a buff :#
  • Rebiludo
    Rebiludo
    ✭✭✭
    J18696 wrote: »
    Yeah spec bow should bounce between targets and ramp in damage every time it finds a new target buff nb

    Iike force pulse which bounce on targets with a status effect, spec bow could bounce on targets which have... for exemple... life points ?
  • Zastrix
    Zastrix
    ✭✭✭✭
    Yeah just rollback all of the changes. NB were in a bad spot in PvE, now it's way worse. I can see how the new leeching strikes can make a lot of builds cheesy. Just revert it.
    110-114k Stage 4 Vamprie Magblade u39
    Aldmeri Dominion did nothing wrong in Shadowfen.
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