Will we Templar players at least get the courtesy of a explanation why we have been ignored for u41?

Major_Soulless · January 30

As someone who has had a main plar character for the 5 years I’ve been playing eso I was aghast to read the patch notes and not see a single note regarding changes to Templar for u41.

If you have a reason for this that’s fine but I think we templars deserve to know said reason why we are being ostracised?

And yes I noticed NB getting damage buffs AGAIN. It’s almost like you want pvp just to be night blades

Zezin · January 30

Templar is on a pretty good spot on PvE, can't say for PvP but from what I see it seems like it's also in a good spot there, no reason to change something that is doing good.

gariondavey · January 30

Zezin wrote: »

Templar is on a pretty good spot on PvE, can't say for PvP but from what I see it seems like it's also in a good spot there, no reason to change something that is doing good.

When your spammable is reduced by 40 percent and your delayed damage skill has been annihilated with beam being the only strong offensive skill your class has...that's not exactly "doing good".

JustLovely · January 30

gariondavey wrote: »

Zezin wrote: »

Templar is on a pretty good spot on PvE, can't say for PvP but from what I see it seems like it's also in a good spot there, no reason to change something that is doing good.

When your spammable is reduced by 40 percent and your delayed damage skill has been annihilated with beam being the only strong offensive skill your class has...that's not exactly "doing good".

The jabs animation is still migraine inducing too.

Jman100582 · January 30

Templar is quite literally carried by beam in every environment. I don’t really pve, but I know plar gets a lot of its parsing damage from the execute phase, which helps average out its dps to a high number. The issue in pvp is that you by yourself are going to have a difficult time 1) getting someone into execute ranged cuz you have so little damage on every other ability in your kit and 2) keeping someone in execute range while they are actively healing/blocking/bashing. I’m honestly surprised beam hasn’t been nerfed yet. When it does eventually get nerfed it’ll probably be time to find another class to play

ArchangelIsraphel · January 30

Zezin wrote: »

Templar is on a pretty good spot on PvE, can't say for PvP but from what I see it seems like it's also in a good spot there, no reason to change something that is doing good.

With nearly all of Templar's damage loaded into a single execute, it isn't doing "good" at all. It's one of the least wanted classes in PVE content, and in PVP there is a very limited amount of sets/skill combos reused over and over to be competitive.

Tyrant_Tim · January 30

Zezin wrote: »

Templar is on a pretty good spot on PvE, can't say for PvP but from what I see it seems like it's also in a good spot there, no reason to change something that is doing good.

Templar healers used to be a thing when stronger heals were necessary, but now it’s all about buff chasing, and Templar provides nothing.

The class is non-existent in the Healer and Tank role for PvE, and only accepted as a DD in very niché situations. You’re better served by a Warden, Dragonknight, and Arcanist, respectively.

StarOfElyon · January 30

Major_Soulless wrote: »

As someone who has had a main plar character for the 5 years I’ve been playing eso I was aghast to read the patch notes and not see a single note regarding changes to Templar for u41.

If you have a reason for this that’s fine but I think we templars deserve to know said reason why we are being ostracised?

And yes I noticed NB getting damage buffs AGAIN. It’s almost like you want pvp just to be night blades

I almost they would have just ignored Necromancers. Be grateful.

Gray_howling_parrot · January 30

Templar supports haven't been looked at for 10 years. Templar tank needs a re-work. What are we doin' here?

Nilandia · January 30

ArchangelIsraphel wrote: »

Zezin wrote: »

Templar is on a pretty good spot on PvE, can't say for PvP but from what I see it seems like it's also in a good spot there, no reason to change something that is doing good.

With nearly all of Templar's damage loaded into a single execute, it isn't doing "good" at all. It's one of the least wanted classes in PVE content, and in PVP there is a very limited amount of sets/skill combos reused over and over to be competitive.

Templars are in a decent place for PVE DPS. They're not the amazing golden child that arcanist is, but they still have a place.

In raids, they're especially effective in encounters that are more single target heavy, in encounters with portal mechanics, or in encounters where executes need to be burned through as quickly as possible. Many trials Discord servers I'm in have raid roster templates that outright have a slot reserved for templar.

That's to say nothing for templars being absolute beasts in dungeons and solo content.

They are definitely not one of the least wanted classes in PVE.

merpins · January 30

In before Week 2 where Zos releases a patch note saying "Sorry we forgot about you Templar players! Here's the nerf we intended to bring you!" as they nerf god beam or something else, making Templar even more unplayable.

Vahndamme · January 30

Templar are honestly in a very bad spot. Sure if you look at parses, the dmg seems fine. But everything is so beam heavy. Without the beam the entire class falls and yes in PvP.. try getting someone to execute range on your own ^^

At least strong jabs were fun, beaming is just chillin entire fight and then pump at end. It's quite boring, Templar needs a more lineair dmg output. Now it's so heavy on the backend.

Also, as said above.. jabs animation is still an eye sore.

Tyrant_Tim · January 30

I’m sure a great player, regardless of their class, can force themselves into a group, but nowhere on any of those lists were an “execute dd” referenced, nor Templar.

People agree that Templar isn’t fun to play, and I can attest personally to the fact that it isn’t included in fully composed groups that are consistently hitting leaderboards, so what purpose does it have?

Tyrant_Tim · January 30

Now, if Templar was anywhere near impactful in trials, your average every day trial rosters would have a slot for them, and that’s not the case.

Any Templar DD looking for a spot on a roster would need to compete with DK and Arcanist cleave.

Any Templar Healer would need to compete with the buff-centric Wardens and ult-gen’o’holic Nightblades.

Any Templar Tank would need to compete with a brain-dead easy DK with Stagger or with ridiculous DoT mitigation and crazy ult-gen Sax-PA Necromancers.

Right now, they don’t. Nothing about Update 41 yet has indicated a shift in that regard.

Nilandia · January 30

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

I’m sure a great player, regardless of their class, can force themselves into a group, but nowhere on any of those lists were an “execute dd” referenced, nor Templar.

People agree that Templar isn’t fun to play, and I can attest personally to the fact that it isn’t included in fully composed groups that are consistently hitting leaderboards, so what purpose does it have?

I went to ESOLogs to check for team scores. It's not a complete sample because not everyone is a part of a team or posts public logs, but it paints a decent picture. All scores are from the current patch.

21 of the top 25 team scores posted this patch in Sanity's Edge have at least 1 templar DPS, sometimes 2 https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/17#metric=score

15 of the top 25 team scores in Dreadsail Reef have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/16#metric=score

11 of the top 25 team scores in Kyne's Aegis have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/14#metric=score

12 of the top 25 team scores in Sunspire have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/12#metric=score

15 of the top 25 team scores in Hel Ra Citadel have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/2#metric=score

13 of the top 25 team scores in Aetherian Archive have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/1#metric=score

Templars were rarer in Rockgrove, Cloudrest, Asylum Sanctorium, Halls of Fabrication, Maw of Lorkhaj, and Sanctum Ophidia. But they were still present even then. The top 2 scores in Rockgrove, for example, have a templar DPS.

Yes, arcanists are plentiful. They're currently having their moment in the sun. I have one myself that I bring to Rockgrove hard mode. But I also cleared Sanity's Edge hard mode on a templar, where I was the execute specialist. In the Discord servers I'm in, veteran hard mode PUG trial rosters will outright list a slot for templars.

So if you still believe templars have no place in PVE, I don't know what to tell you. That's by far not the case of my own experience.

Tyrant_Tim · January 30

You keep referencing Sanity’s Edge.

Having one example that you believe supports a claim that Templar DD is desirable does not make it any more desirable in any other scenario.

As referenced earlier, any player that knows how to rotate and move their feet can show up on any class and pull a decent score. Templar just so happens to be one of the most popular fantasy themes, so it goes without saying you’re going to see rare situations where they just pop up on random leaderboards.

There are specific slots on teams reserved for every other class except for Templar, and it is blatantly obvious that any of those teams competing for #1 would have cleaved down everything up to the bosses faster than whatever minimal advantage would be given single target for having a Plar in group, where other classes are proven to parse higher single-target throughout the entire encounter… I’ll use a clip from Charles as an example.

https://youtu.be/SjBNLHZE1uI?si=WwAKH9dxk3ghBAtQ
Find me a higher parse than this on Templar and we can talk about single-target contribution, because the closest I can find is over 8k DPS behind.

Also feel free to post some screenshots from a Discord where Templar slots are “guaranteed” the ones I posted were from Raid Runners, the #1 general raiding guild on Xbox NA.

Cast_El · January 30

I don't think we will get any answer. No communication from ZOS since U35 about templar nerfs. Nobody asked for this, every one asked why and no answer. So, it why they would answer us now? They don't care about us as long as they sell new content and pve players are happy

ElderSmitter · January 30

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Zezin wrote: »

Templar is on a pretty good spot on PvE, can't say for PvP but from what I see it seems like it's also in a good spot there, no reason to change something that is doing good.

Templar healers used to be a thing when stronger heals were necessary, but now it’s all about buff chasing, and Templar provides nothing.

The class is non-existent in the Healer and Tank role for PvE, and only accepted as a DD in very niché situations. You’re better served by a Warden, Dragonknight, and Arcanist, respectively.

You are always hating on Templar Tanks. It Cracks me up. I run vet Trials all the time with my Templar Tank as a MT and OT. I love my Templar Tank and would not change to any other class. Maybe you're in a specific Group chasing Buffs but none of the Trials I run or Lead care what class you use. There is enough class and Set diversity that if you cannot clear content with a 12 Man group, you're not clearing it lol...

ElderSmitter · January 30

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Now, if Templar was anywhere near impactful in trials, your average every day trial rosters would have a slot for them, and that’s not the case.

Any Templar DD looking for a spot on a roster would need to compete with DK and Arcanist cleave.

Any Templar Healer would need to compete with the buff-centric Wardens and ult-gen’o’holic Nightblades.

Any Templar Tank would need to compete with a brain-dead easy DK with Stagger or with ridiculous DoT mitigation and crazy ult-gen Sax-PA Necromancers.

Right now, they don’t. Nothing about Update 41 yet has indicated a shift in that regard.

You said this same thing to me about endless Archives lol... You just do not like Templar's. Let me tell you a little secret about Templar's. Factual. Most players chase Meta and have no Idea how to build a Proper Templar Character. That is the sole problem. Cheers!

Tyrant_Tim · January 30

@ElderSmitter, I love Templar.

My main is a Templar Nord. There is nothing I want more from ESO, than to have Templar tanking a sought after thing within the game.

Bringing attention to a problem is one thing, but I’ve an entire thread dedicated to helping provide potential solutions to the playstyle within this very forum subcategory…

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/639316/sun-shield-rework-when/p1

While I understand it might be frustrating to hear that your preferred playstyle is lacking, it does it a disservice to claim otherwise because perfectly fine options don’t receive attention, and man could Templar tank use some love.

ElderSmitter · January 30

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

@ElderSmitter, I love Templar.

My main is a Templar Nord. There is nothing I want more from ESO, than to have Templar tanking a sought after thing within the game.

Bringing attention to a problem is one thing, but I’ve an entire thread dedicated to helping provide potential solutions to the playstyle within this very forum subcategory…

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/639316/sun-shield-rework-when/p1

While I understand it might be frustrating to hear that your preferred playstyle is lacking, it does it a disservice to claim otherwise because perfectly fine options don’t receive attention, and man could Templar tank use some love.

No, I speak the truth. A Majority of Templar's Tanks and DPS do not know how to build a proper Templar. It is simple as that.

Tyrant_Tim · January 30

ElderSmitter wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

@ElderSmitter, I love Templar.

My main is a Templar Nord. There is nothing I want more from ESO, than to have Templar tanking a sought after thing within the game.

Bringing attention to a problem is one thing, but I’ve an entire thread dedicated to helping provide potential solutions to the playstyle within this very forum subcategory…

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/639316/sun-shield-rework-when/p1

While I understand it might be frustrating to hear that your preferred playstyle is lacking, it does it a disservice to claim otherwise because perfectly fine options don’t receive attention, and man could Templar tank use some love.

No, I speak the truth. A Majority of Templar's Tanks and DPS do not know how to build a proper Templar. It is simple as that.

There are more than enough resources available that show peak performance of each class, from gear setups and parses to replicate, to ability loadout swapping per encounter and in depth support build videos…

https://youtu.be/-_KRs7UClQU?si=ShCLZr89FjOlvHTz

https://youtu.be/Pf217OBW1Lc?si=bMni_8_Ht3Z22Cn-
Just because something can be done, doesn’t mean it’s a great option. Every option should be in competition with each other if built properly and that isn’t the case, it doesn’t matter what you throw onto a Templar tank, it will NEVER compete with a Dragonknight or Necromancer.

Not until we have some reworked skills.

Also want to add that I promise that you don’t know some secret that everyone else is unaware of. ESO is a decade old, everything is played out and the end-game population has a grasp on how each and every minor change will throw a meta off, notice how many Nightblade healers are taking over for Templars, and how fast it happened.

Leia98 · January 30

Nilandia wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

I’m sure a great player, regardless of their class, can force themselves into a group, but nowhere on any of those lists were an “execute dd” referenced, nor Templar.

People agree that Templar isn’t fun to play, and I can attest personally to the fact that it isn’t included in fully composed groups that are consistently hitting leaderboards, so what purpose does it have?

I went to ESOLogs to check for team scores. It's not a complete sample because not everyone is a part of a team or posts public logs, but it paints a decent picture. All scores are from the current patch.

21 of the top 25 team scores posted this patch in Sanity's Edge have at least 1 templar DPS, sometimes 2 https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/17#metric=score

15 of the top 25 team scores in Dreadsail Reef have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/16#metric=score

11 of the top 25 team scores in Kyne's Aegis have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/14#metric=score

12 of the top 25 team scores in Sunspire have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/12#metric=score

15 of the top 25 team scores in Hel Ra Citadel have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/2#metric=score

13 of the top 25 team scores in Aetherian Archive have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/1#metric=score

Templars were rarer in Rockgrove, Cloudrest, Asylum Sanctorium, Halls of Fabrication, Maw of Lorkhaj, and Sanctum Ophidia. But they were still present even then. The top 2 scores in Rockgrove, for example, have a templar DPS.

Yes, arcanists are plentiful. They're currently having their moment in the sun. I have one myself that I bring to Rockgrove hard mode. But I also cleared Sanity's Edge hard mode on a templar, where I was the execute specialist. In the Discord servers I'm in, veteran hard mode PUG trial rosters will outright list a slot for templars.

So if you still believe templars have no place in PVE, I don't know what to tell you. That's by far not the case of my own experience.

I love the fact that you completely ignore the fact that templar supports are completely useless atm and just talk about dps as if it were the only role in this game

Ofc templar dps is in a good spot atm, but supports are not. Templar tanks are literally one of the jokes of the community. Templar healers are lagging behind rn so yes, templar does need something to be a viable support

ElderSmitter · January 30

Leia98 wrote: »

Nilandia wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

I’m sure a great player, regardless of their class, can force themselves into a group, but nowhere on any of those lists were an “execute dd” referenced, nor Templar.

People agree that Templar isn’t fun to play, and I can attest personally to the fact that it isn’t included in fully composed groups that are consistently hitting leaderboards, so what purpose does it have?

I went to ESOLogs to check for team scores. It's not a complete sample because not everyone is a part of a team or posts public logs, but it paints a decent picture. All scores are from the current patch.

21 of the top 25 team scores posted this patch in Sanity's Edge have at least 1 templar DPS, sometimes 2 https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/17#metric=score

15 of the top 25 team scores in Dreadsail Reef have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/16#metric=score

11 of the top 25 team scores in Kyne's Aegis have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/14#metric=score

12 of the top 25 team scores in Sunspire have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/12#metric=score

15 of the top 25 team scores in Hel Ra Citadel have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/2#metric=score

13 of the top 25 team scores in Aetherian Archive have at least 1 templar DPS https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/1#metric=score

Templars were rarer in Rockgrove, Cloudrest, Asylum Sanctorium, Halls of Fabrication, Maw of Lorkhaj, and Sanctum Ophidia. But they were still present even then. The top 2 scores in Rockgrove, for example, have a templar DPS.

Yes, arcanists are plentiful. They're currently having their moment in the sun. I have one myself that I bring to Rockgrove hard mode. But I also cleared Sanity's Edge hard mode on a templar, where I was the execute specialist. In the Discord servers I'm in, veteran hard mode PUG trial rosters will outright list a slot for templars.

So if you still believe templars have no place in PVE, I don't know what to tell you. That's by far not the case of my own experience.

I love the fact that you completely ignore the fact that templar supports are completely useless atm and just talk about dps as if it were the only role in this game

Ofc templar dps is in a good spot atm, but supports are not. Templar tanks are literally one of the jokes of the community. Templar healers are lagging behind rn so yes, templar does need something to be a viable support

The Only reason Templar use took a dip is because of the Overpowered Arcanist was many converted Templars. It is not hard to see or know that. Arcanist and Templar are very similar as Beam and FC were very similar and used same sets and even CP. With Arcanist getting some Nerfs you will see many New Arcanist go back to their Templar's. As for Templar Tanks. Very Niche as I am a Templar Tank. You have to now how to build a Templar Tank. I love my Tank and can run any Vet Trial Content. BUT... Yes if you do not know how to build a proper Templar Tank you will fail.

Tyrant_Tim · January 30

ElderSmitter wrote: »

As for Templar Tanks. Very Niche as I am a Templar Tank. You have to now how to build a Templar Tank. I love my Tank and can run any Vet Trial Content. BUT... Yes if you do not know how to build a proper Templar Tank you will fail.

What’s your top secret super Templar tank build?

ElderSmitter · January 30

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

@ElderSmitter, I love Templar.

My main is a Templar Nord. There is nothing I want more from ESO, than to have Templar tanking a sought after thing within the game.

Bringing attention to a problem is one thing, but I’ve an entire thread dedicated to helping provide potential solutions to the playstyle within this very forum subcategory…

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/639316/sun-shield-rework-when/p1

While I understand it might be frustrating to hear that your preferred playstyle is lacking, it does it a disservice to claim otherwise because perfectly fine options don’t receive attention, and man could Templar tank use some love.

No, I speak the truth. A Majority of Templar's Tanks and DPS do not know how to build a proper Templar. It is simple as that.

There are more than enough resources available that show peak performance of each class, from gear setups and parses to replicate, to ability loadout swapping per encounter and in depth support build videos…

https://youtu.be/-_KRs7UClQU?si=ShCLZr89FjOlvHTz
https://youtu.be/Pf217OBW1Lc?si=bMni_8_Ht3Z22Cn-
Just because something can be done, doesn’t mean it’s a great option. Every option should be in competition with each other if built properly and that isn’t the case, it doesn’t matter what you throw onto a Templar tank, it will NEVER compete with a Dragonknight or Necromancer.

Not until we have some reworked skills.

Also want to add that I promise that you don’t know some secret that everyone else is unaware of. ESO is a decade old, everything is played out and the end-game population has a grasp on how each and every minor change will throw a meta off, notice how many Nightblade healers are taking over for Templars, and how fast it happened.

Secret? lol Oh No Secrets. Just a basic understanding of my Build and how it works. Cheers!

Galeriano · January 31

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Find me a higher parse than this on Templar and we can talk about single-target contribution, because the closest I can find is over 8k DPS behind.

Find me real trial fight where sorc comes with stacked 500 ulti and ulti dumps overload at the beggining. Making stamsorc dummy parses as any source of comparision is really out of place since these parses are pretty much cheesed and can;t be reproduced anywhere outside of the dummy. Templar in real fights is in fact outparsing sorc in single target.

Tyrant_Tim · January 31

ElderSmitter wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

@ElderSmitter, I love Templar.

My main is a Templar Nord. There is nothing I want more from ESO, than to have Templar tanking a sought after thing within the game.

Bringing attention to a problem is one thing, but I’ve an entire thread dedicated to helping provide potential solutions to the playstyle within this very forum subcategory…

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/639316/sun-shield-rework-when/p1

While I understand it might be frustrating to hear that your preferred playstyle is lacking, it does it a disservice to claim otherwise because perfectly fine options don’t receive attention, and man could Templar tank use some love.

No, I speak the truth. A Majority of Templar's Tanks and DPS do not know how to build a proper Templar. It is simple as that.

There are more than enough resources available that show peak performance of each class, from gear setups and parses to replicate, to ability loadout swapping per encounter and in depth support build videos…

https://youtu.be/-_KRs7UClQU?si=ShCLZr89FjOlvHTz
https://youtu.be/Pf217OBW1Lc?si=bMni_8_Ht3Z22Cn-
Just because something can be done, doesn’t mean it’s a great option. Every option should be in competition with each other if built properly and that isn’t the case, it doesn’t matter what you throw onto a Templar tank, it will NEVER compete with a Dragonknight or Necromancer.

Not until we have some reworked skills.

Also want to add that I promise that you don’t know some secret that everyone else is unaware of. ESO is a decade old, everything is played out and the end-game population has a grasp on how each and every minor change will throw a meta off, notice how many Nightblade healers are taking over for Templars, and how fast it happened.

Secret? lol Oh No Secrets. Just a basic understanding of my Build and how it works. Cheers!

Does it shine or does it work?

Murinio · January 31

wouldn't be ignored then lol
perfection needs nothing more just audience

ElderSmitter · January 31

I am on PCNA Tank and Run Pug Trials on Thursday Nights, Friday Mornings and Sunday nights. Your more than welcome to come jump into a Pug run on GF with me. I run vKA vCR+1 vRG at least once or twice. We can do vAA or vAS + as well. We do not require specifics and have fun. Cheers! Seldon do we not finish and usually the Only one that does not finish out of them all occasionally is vCR+1 due to Portal Teams and folks not killing corpses prior to rezzing. Discord not required.

Tyrant_Tim · January 31

Galeriano wrote: »

Tyrant_Tim wrote: »

Find me a higher parse than this on Templar and we can talk about single-target contribution, because the closest I can find is over 8k DPS behind.

Find me real trial fight where sorc comes with stacked 500 ulti and ulti dumps overload at the beggining. Making stamsorc dummy parses as any source of comparision is really out of place since these parses are pretty much cheesed and can;t be reproduced anywhere outside of the dummy. Templar in real fights is in fact outparsing sorc in single target.

That’s weird because when I read the combat metric it said that Overload only factored for 3.9% of the overall fight, which if he parsed for 200k (he didn’t) 3.9% of 200k would be 7.8k damage.

He parsed for 140k though, which means that Power Overload only gave him a 5k DPS lead, which still leaves Stam Sorc ahead of Plar by a few thousand damage per second.

Funny thing that though, because a Sorcerer can give the group Minor Prophecy a completely unique buff that doesn’t have a stacking problem like Sorcery does while hitting harder than Templar while also buffing the entire group with an Atronach ultimate that gives an entire group Major Berserk, what does Templar have for a group buff ultimate?

Major Maim on Nova?

Update 41 Sorcerer is getting that very debuff on a skill that costs under 4,050 magicka that applies an Ultimate level debuff for 10 seconds caked into a root that does damage or heals and applies Minor Vitality.