Update 41 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Maintenance for the week of February 26:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – February 26
The maintenance is complete, and the PTS is now back online and patch 9.3.4 is available.

Does ZOS really just hate nightblades in PvE?

Zastrix
Zastrix
✭✭✭✭
Just, what??? Who even thought of these changes for PvE? Sure, take the most useless class in PvE as a tank and DD (mostly as a healer too) and then just curve-stomp it. 10% damage nerf for one of the worst classes in PvE? Why not I guess, gotta bring those arcanist sales up.
Edited by Zastrix on January 30, 2024 12:25AM
110-114k Stage 4 Vamprie Magblade u39
Aldmeri Dominion did nothing wrong in Shadowfen.
  • Zastrix
    Zastrix
    ✭✭✭✭
    Why not just make the new 'bonus' on the spammable: increase damage by 20% to player enemies? Considering how much you buff NB in PvP and utterly nerf it in PvE.

    I am so thankful BDO changed their anticheat to work on Linux now.
    110-114k Stage 4 Vamprie Magblade u39
    Aldmeri Dominion did nothing wrong in Shadowfen.
  • Drako_Ei
    Drako_Ei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Don't you know?

    You are not allowed to play other weapon than double dagger.

    You are not allowed to play other race than dark elf / orc.

    You are not allowed to play other class, just Arcanist.


    Are you a khajiit nightblade dps with a bow? You are playing the wrong game.
  • Araneae6537
    Araneae6537
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    The changes to Nightblade don’t look bad to me, and some people are saying that the class is seeing a buff.

    I just wish the permaglow from Grim Focus would be fixed. :/
  • Drako_Ei
    Drako_Ei
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    If nightblade changes don't look bad for you, get your sight checked, its fauly.

    10% damage reduction is a lol.

    Delete your character, go play arcanist
  • ArctosCethlenn
    ArctosCethlenn
    ✭✭✭
    The changes to Nightblade don’t look bad to me, and some people are saying that the class is seeing a buff.

    I just wish the permaglow from Grim Focus would be fixed. :/

    sustain yes, damage the concealed change is absolutely a nerf, one deserved in pvp and... idk if it's deserved in pve or not, but it's a nerf.

    y64y00certbj.png

    even if the build changed to concealed as the primary spammable, there's no possible way +20% concealed damage is gonna outweigh losing significant uptime on major berserk (94% in that shot)
  • Zastrix
    Zastrix
    ✭✭✭✭
    The changes to Nightblade don’t look bad to me, and some people are saying that the class is seeing a buff.

    I just wish the permaglow from Grim Focus would be fixed. :/

    sustain yes, damage the concealed change is absolutely a nerf, one deserved in pvp and... idk if it's deserved in pve or not, but it's a nerf.

    y64y00certbj.png

    even if the build changed to concealed as the primary spammable, there's no possible way +20% concealed damage is gonna outweigh losing significant uptime on major berserk (94% in that shot)

    It's a buff on sustain if you can't light attack. Good nightblades know how to light attack due to bow proc / relequen / kjalnar / siphoning strikes. Having 1 LA/s it would've been 206 regen with reave and strikes. Now it's 200 from just strikes so you HAVE to give one slot to it now as you don't have access to reave. Bye-bye self-heals I guess or bye DoTs?
    110-114k Stage 4 Vamprie Magblade u39
    Aldmeri Dominion did nothing wrong in Shadowfen.
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Zastrix wrote: »
    The changes to Nightblade don’t look bad to me, and some people are saying that the class is seeing a buff.

    I just wish the permaglow from Grim Focus would be fixed. :/

    PvP'ers say it's a buff. It's a nerf otherwise.

    Some people said it's a 25% damage buff but they can't read. Instead of major brutality or whatever we had on CW it just buffs CW itself by 10% and 15% when you leave invisibility/crouch, so a 10% nerf in PvE. If you had reave and strikes that would've been 206 resource restoration per light attack and now it's only 200 so it's a nerf in resources.

    Rx3ZPMY.png
    First image is in stealth.
    • The 10% buff is from the base skill Veiled Strike.
    • The total 20% from sneak, is closer to 21%, probably because of rounding up decimals and all that.
    • Surprise Attack has damage scaling based on the rank of the skill. So technically, it's 3.25% stronger than the base skill. This means the difference between the morphs is not 10%, but 6.75% in PVE or about 17% in PVP cuz of stealth.
    • Surprise Attack was buffed this patch due to the Sundered status effect being improved by +100% damage and giving +100 weapon/spell damage for 4s.

    It was Major Berserk not Brutality/Sorcery, kind of redundant in group pve because a Sorc can provide that from their Atro ultimate.. so in theory, you do have potential for more dps, but it probably won't play out that way with lower uptimes. It never really made sense to give Major Berserk in the first place because the class has it through Mark target. Not denying it isn't a nerf, but we all saw this coming when they removed the original unique 10% for this instead. Surprise attack is still the better damage option with flank crits and Sundered, but Concealed Weapons Minor Expedition on both bars is a great addition for utility.

    For the resource return aspect, you're comparing 206 to 200, it's a very small loss for what you gain. You literally never have to cast Siphoning Strikes and you get free passive healing/sustain from back bar without having to light attack anything, it just happens from any instance of damage so it's going to be up more frequently than Reeve.

    So you lose Reeve, but why would you ever use that instead of Soul Harvest in pve to begin with? 10 ultimate per kill is insanely powerful, and again, now it works on back bar so you don't even need to use it as your main ult if you don't want to.

    A lot of quality of life improvements here. Yeah Concealed was nerfed and it sucks, but I don't think it's as bad as it looks with everything else they changed. 1 thing they should do is just allow the added 10% damage buff to work from Expedition like it is on live. It only effects the skill now, so I don't understand why they took that away from Mag NB pve dps players.
    Edited by MashmalloMan on January 30, 2024 1:18AM
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • ArctosCethlenn
    ArctosCethlenn
    ✭✭✭
    For resource return (at least in pvp) it's also pretty important that it's 200 of each instead of 106 primary + reave's 100/100, alongside being able to tap the active on demand to feed yourself 2600 of each. I'd assume the same applies to pve but I don't really do that much.
    Edited by ArctosCethlenn on January 30, 2024 1:41AM
  • Galeriano
    Galeriano
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    They definietly love them in PvP.
  • Zastrix
    Zastrix
    ✭✭✭✭
    A lot of quality of life improvements here. Yeah Concealed was nerfed and it sucks, but I don't think it's as bad as it looks with everything else they changed. 1 thing they should do is just allow the added 10% damage buff to work from Expedition like it is on live. It only effects the skill now, so I don't understand why they took that away from Mag NB pve dps players.

    Yeah I played as mag vampire NB. I needed Reave and a good magicka spammable. Right now CW is stronger than vampire spammable but costs way more and doesn't give extra benefits. My parse went from 114 to barely 101 this PTS patch.
    It was Major Berserk not Brutality/Sorcery
    I know it was something like that, but couldn't bother opening a new tab/starting the game to check it exactly.
    110-114k Stage 4 Vamprie Magblade u39
    Aldmeri Dominion did nothing wrong in Shadowfen.
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    Zastrix wrote: »
    A lot of quality of life improvements here. Yeah Concealed was nerfed and it sucks, but I don't think it's as bad as it looks with everything else they changed. 1 thing they should do is just allow the added 10% damage buff to work from Expedition like it is on live. It only effects the skill now, so I don't understand why they took that away from Mag NB pve dps players.

    Yeah I played as mag vampire NB. I needed Reave and a good magicka spammable. Right now CW is stronger than vampire spammable but costs way more and doesn't give extra benefits. My parse went from 114 to barely 101 this PTS patch.
    It was Major Berserk not Brutality/Sorcery
    I know it was something like that, but couldn't bother opening a new tab/starting the game to check it exactly.

    As a mag nb, slot Soul Harvest and Siphoning Strikes, in actual pve content that 10 ult gen a kill is insanely powerful. It may not show up on a dummy, but whatever.

    Plus, if you're using Blood for Blood, Siphoning Strikes makes it essentially free. The biggest hinderance to using Siphoning Strikes for pve was wasting the GCD, losing DPS. Thats not the case anymore, I find it hard to believe you can't find 1 flex spot to fit it if sustain is an issue for you.
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • master_vanargand
    master_vanargand
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'm dissatisfied with the PvE DPS Nightblade.
    Since "Major Berserk (damage +10%)" from "Concealed Weapon" has been removed in PTS, PvE Nightblade DPS needs a buff.

    Game creators don't have to do anything difficult.

    For example, if you reduce the ultimate cost of Nightblade's ultimate skill "Death Stroke" from 70 to 60 and increase the duration from 8 seconds to 12 seconds, this will result in a +5% dps increase.
    For example, increasing Nightblade's passive skill "Dark Veil" from 2 seconds to 5 seconds will improve DPS and make skill rotation easier.
    For example, increasing the "Pressure Points" of Nightblade's passive skill from 438 (Critical ratings +2%) to 657 (Critical ratings +3%) will improve dps.

    DPS can be improved by simply changing Nightblade's skill numbers. Very easy, right?

    Also for PvE Nightblade Tank and Healer, need the duration of "Minor Vulnerability" on "Lotus Fan" should be increased from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.
    And for PvP Nightblade, need remove the useless "Empower" from "Ambush" and add "Stun". (the old ESO "Ambush")
    Also for PvE Nightblade Tank, need give "Minor Courage" of "Power Extraction" to 11 people in the group and make it last 15 seconds.

    These requests are the easiest and simplest way for game creators to improve their gameplay experience.
    Just change the numbers. That alone will change for the better.
  • monkidb16_ESO
    monkidb16_ESO
    ✭✭✭
    For the resource return aspect, you're comparing 206 to 200, it's a very small loss for what you gain. You literally never have to cast Siphoning Strikes and you get free passive healing/sustain from back bar without having to light attack anything, it just happens from any instance of damage so it's going to be up more frequently than Reeve.

    You're forgetting about the 3-4k (depending on cost reduction) gain every 20 seconds, so its more of a 200 (both) vs 300 (main) + 100 (off) comparison.

    Siphoning alone is a wash, higher skill floor but lower skill ceiling. But losing reave makes it harder on main resources.

    For PvP NB gets +10% on Concealed and -10% on Bow but for PvE where they are already struggling the nerf to Berserk will hit hard.
  • MashmalloMan
    MashmalloMan
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    For the resource return aspect, you're comparing 206 to 200, it's a very small loss for what you gain. You literally never have to cast Siphoning Strikes and you get free passive healing/sustain from back bar without having to light attack anything, it just happens from any instance of damage so it's going to be up more frequently than Reeve.

    You're forgetting about the 3-4k (depending on cost reduction) gain every 20 seconds, so its more of a 200 (both) vs 300 (main) + 100 (off) comparison.

    Siphoning alone is a wash, higher skill floor but lower skill ceiling. But losing reave makes it harder on main resources.

    For PvP NB gets +10% on Concealed and -10% on Bow but for PvE where they are already struggling the nerf to Berserk will hit hard.

    Mate is probably a pve build, to which you do not want to waste any GCD's on sustain skills to get max dps, so yes, the new skill is 100% an improvement for them. We already talked about this in the other thread.
    PC Beta - 1900+ CP

    Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
    Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit


    Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit
  • Zastrix
    Zastrix
    ✭✭✭✭
    As a mag nb, slot Soul Harvest and Siphoning Strikes, in actual pve content that 10 ult gen a kill is insanely powerful. It may not show up on a dummy, but whatever.
    Yes you can very much say but whatever if you don't play competitively with other PvE-ers. I would assume your main toon isn't a MagNB who runs hardmode trials, no?

    And also on boss fights you're going to run incap on both bars because of the class passives, it having an effect carried over the backbar ONLY affects trash-fights.
    Plus, if you're using Blood for Blood, Siphoning Strikes makes it essentially free.
    Sure, that'll work if I'm running normal dungeons, not trifectas which I do.

    qgvfncfw545t.png
    lol good luck using that anywhere tougher than vet fungal grotto I.
    The biggest hindrance to using Siphoning Strikes for pve was wasting the GCD, losing DPS. Thats not the case anymore, I find it hard to believe you can't find 1 flex spot to fit it if sustain is an issue for you.
    I didn't say I've got a sustain issue (in actual content sometimes I do but I digress), I'm saying that the new rework is still a nerf. I was able to slot in a heal instead of strikes and I'd still have 100 regen from weaving while not loosing DPS from having to remove a DPS ability. Now I have to remove a DPS ability as reave is no longer a thing from an ultimate I have to use either way. It's a plain nerf and if I change an ability I sacrifice damage instead of just being able to play smart on resources.

    Also now loosing one GCD every 20 seconds is worse than loosing a whole damage ability KEKW.
    Edited by Zastrix on January 30, 2024 9:22AM
    110-114k Stage 4 Vamprie Magblade u39
    Aldmeri Dominion did nothing wrong in Shadowfen.
  • Turtle_Bot
    Turtle_Bot
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭
    Honestly, all they needed to do with NB was:

    1. Change major berserk on concealed to be "+10% damage done against monsters only", they could even return the old proc condition that worked with twisting path.
    2. Move major prophecy/savagery from shadowy disguise and put it on dark cloak (HoT morph). This way invis blade cannot get the massive crit chance boost for its healing, but blades that choose to give up invisibility, get better crit chance on their damage and healing instead.

    They could even stack multiples of this damage done against monsters buff against onto multiple skills (cripple + morphs, sap essence, etc) since, once again, it will only affect PvE.
  • Prionyx
    Prionyx
    ✭✭✭
    Galeriano wrote: »
    They definietly love them in PvP.

    You can't be seriously saying that ZOS love seconds worst class in pvp
  • Prionyx
    Prionyx
    ✭✭✭
    Turtle_Bot wrote: »
    Honestly, all they needed to do with NB was:

    1. Change major berserk on concealed to be "+10% damage done against monsters only"

    That's absolutely horrible idea, nerfing one of the weakest game's classes...
  • Zastrix
    Zastrix
    ✭✭✭✭
    Turtle_Bot wrote: »
    Honestly, all they needed to do with NB was:

    1. Change major berserk on concealed to be "+10% damage done against monsters only", they could even return the old proc condition that worked with twisting path.
    2. Move major prophecy/savagery from shadowy disguise and put it on dark cloak (HoT morph). This way invis blade cannot get the massive crit chance boost for its healing, but blades that choose to give up invisibility, get better crit chance on their damage and healing instead.

    They could even stack multiples of this damage done against monsters buff against onto multiple skills (cripple + morphs, sap essence, etc) since, once again, it will only affect PvE.

    Well that would actually make sense and wouldn't nerf PvE nightblades, so it won't be done by the current combat team.
    110-114k Stage 4 Vamprie Magblade u39
    Aldmeri Dominion did nothing wrong in Shadowfen.
  • master_vanargand
    master_vanargand
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    PvE Nightblade DPS is the worst DPS.
    PvE Nightblade DPS has the lowest AoE DPS and the lowest Single DPS.
    Nightblade execute the most complex skill rotation perfectly, make the worst DPS. Wow! stapid.
    This is a true and ridiculous reality.
Sign In or Register to comment.