Move Grave Lord's Sacrifice to one of the Skeletal Mage morphs

JerBearESO · January 29

I see this idea has arisen, of making the new Grave Lord's Sacrifice ability a change to one of the Skeletal Mage morphs instead of Blastbones, and I figure it deserves a poll to help draw attention to the idea early as possible.

Worth noting, this change will allow use to use Blastbones with the new +20% damage effect!

Urvoth · January 29

Yes, replace Skeletal Arcanist

Giving blastbones an extra 20% dmg might not even put necro in a competitive tier, but at least it's a start. Deleting blastbones takes away the only FUN and useful damage skill the class has and makes it just a hollow template for generic guild and world skills.

Estin · January 29

Yes, replace Skeletal Arcanist

I don't really see anybody use Skeletal Arcanist, so that skill should've been the target of this change. Thematically, it makes more sense for your summoned magician to empower you rather than an exploding skeleton. Skeletal Archer can remain the same in case the player would rather have a dot that get stronger and doesn't plan on using skulls as a spammable.

The effects of the change are ok. The 20% damage bonus to dots and grave lord skills should lessen the need of having to use blast bones every 2 seconds as long as you use skulls as your spammable, but the change shouldn't neuter Necromancers only good damaging skill. If the change was made to blighted, I'm sure there would be less of an uproar because I don't often see blighted being used anywhere, but this change will definitely help the Necromancer more if it was on Mage/Arcanist rather than Blast Bones.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · January 29

Yes, replace Skeletal Arcanist

Replace Skeletal Arcanist, the skill name dont even make sense seeing as that's not an Arcanist your raising from the dead.

xDeusEJRx · January 29

Yes, replace Skeletal Arcanist

They need to change it to not hurt Necro's main damage ability. It might be drunk 90% of the time but it's insanely good for damage

CameraBeardThePirate · January 29

Yes, replace Skeletal Arcanist

Stalking Blastbones is the only thing keeping Necro even remotely usable.

It's also THE Necro ability. Removing it would be like removing Spec Bow or Whip or Frags or Fatecarver.

Should Spec Bow be removed because it's too clunky in the rotation? Of course not. Neither should Blastbones.

What about Shalks? And for that matter, if Blastbones was so clunky to use, why not just give it the Shalks treatment and have it recast itself instead of yeeting it out of existence?

To top it all off, why would you remove the better morph instead of getting rid of Blighted? At the absolute bare minimum, at least give Blighted the +10% - 50% Stalking modifier.

CaptainVenom · January 29

No, keep the change as is

(I was supposed to hit "other", my bad)

I'd have added this new effect to Summoner's Armor instead. Changing blastbones makes no sense when we have Summoner's Armor that could have handled the damage bonus nicely.

But changing skeletal mage makes even less sense. People use both morphs depending on their playstyle.

Araneae6537 · January 29

Yes, replace Skeletal Arcanist

CaptainVenom wrote: »

(I was supposed to hit "other", my bad)

I'd have added this new effect to Summoner's Armor instead. Changing blastbones makes no sense when we have Summoner's Armor that could have handled the damage bonus nicely.

But changing skeletal mage makes even less sense. People use both morphs depending on their playstyle.

True, and it would be better if both the skeletal arcanist and archer were buffed, feel so pointless now. And necromancers usually have minions, including in Elder Scrolls. They don’t raise tombstones, throw skulls at people, and get jumped by their own skeletons.

I would change my vote to “Other” too.

LukosCreyden · January 29

Yes, replace Skeletal Arcanist

Blastbones is a useful skill for positioning corpses for use, as well as being our only good damage skill. The other skeleton summon sucks and only exists for the passive and some tiny damage. They could take the buff from the new skill, slap it on the skeleton mage, keep the rest of the skill's effects, and necro still wouldn't be too overpowered.

Blastbones remains clunky. Just give it the warden treatment; one cast for a blastbones, then later another one.

Urvoth · January 29

Yes, replace Skeletal Arcanist

LukosCreyden wrote: »

Blastbones is a useful skill for positioning corpses for use, as well as being our only good damage skill. The other skeleton summon sucks and only exists for the passive and some tiny damage. They could take the buff from the new skill, slap it on the skeleton mage, keep the rest of the skill's effects, and necro still wouldn't be too overpowered.

Blastbones remains clunky. Just give it the warden treatment; one cast for a blastbones, then later another one.

It probably still wouldn't even be in the same tier as NB or DK but at least it would be more viable.

Alaztor91 · January 29

Yes, replace Skeletal Arcanist

The devs explanation for the Warden Scorch change in U35 was basically the same they are using now for the Blastbones one, however they didn't decide to completely nuke the ability and to replace it with a bland 20s damage buff.

Why can't Blastbones receive the Scorch treatment? If you want to ''reduce the intense demand and complex rotation requirement of the class'' you could certainly alter it to function in a similar way.

Could for example be a 10s player ''buff'' that begins when you first cast BB on a target and then it will keep summoning a new one every X seconds that will jump to your current target. Also you should make BB non-targetable similar to Skeletal Mage so that it can't get stunned/knocked down/pushed/etc(this is imo way more annoying than having to cast every 3s, because it screws with your timing)

MashmalloMan · January 30

No, keep the change as is

I only say no because just like how you don't need 2 skeletal mage morphs doing basically the same thing, you don't need 2 Blastbone Morphs doing the same thing.

If they tweak Blighted to dynamically scale and add the Stalking damage bonus, it's both the original morphs in 1 and I can't see any reason as to why that's not possible.

The new skill has potential if the damage bonus was improved and the skill itself had a dot element added to it to reinforce the idea of becoming a dot build by giving up your most important skill, Blastbones.

JerBearESO · January 30

Yes, replace Skeletal Arcanist

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I only say no because just like how you don't need 2 skeletal mage morphs doing basically the same thing, you don't need 2 Blastbone Morphs doing the same thing.

If they tweak Blighted to dynamically scale and add the Stalking damage bonus, it's both the original morphs in 1 and I can't see any reason as to why that's not possible.

The new skill has potential if the damage bonus was improved and the skill itself had a dot element added to it to reinforce the idea of becoming a dot build by giving up your most important skill, Blastbones.

I understand we don't need 2 super similar morphs, but I reeeeeally like the idea of being able to use this new ability WITH blastbones. Since it's from a blastbones morph, we lose blastbones to use it. That's the class main identity thrown away for a buffing skill that best buffs the ability it replaces instead.

Eek!

Though I do agree combining the two morphs into one would at least serve to prevent total tragedy....

Urvoth · January 30

Yes, replace Skeletal Arcanist

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I only say no because just like how you don't need 2 skeletal mage morphs doing basically the same thing, you don't need 2 Blastbone Morphs doing the same thing.

If they tweak Blighted to dynamically scale and add the Stalking damage bonus, it's both the original morphs in 1 and I can't see any reason as to why that's not possible.

The new skill has potential if the damage bonus was improved and the skill itself had a dot element added to it to reinforce the idea of becoming a dot build by giving up your most important skill, Blastbones.

Uhh yes you do. It's the primary damage skill for necros, so you should be able to choose between using the mag or stam version instead of just being forced into using the stam one. If they want to distinguish the morphs more, they should add additional effects on top of what the current skills do. Also, necro needs the damage boost on top of still having blastbones since the class is so far behind other classes at this point.

MashmalloMan · January 30

No, keep the change as is

JerBearESO wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I only say no because just like how you don't need 2 skeletal mage morphs doing basically the same thing, you don't need 2 Blastbone Morphs doing the same thing.

If they tweak Blighted to dynamically scale and add the Stalking damage bonus, it's both the original morphs in 1 and I can't see any reason as to why that's not possible.

The new skill has potential if the damage bonus was improved and the skill itself had a dot element added to it to reinforce the idea of becoming a dot build by giving up your most important skill, Blastbones.

I understand we don't need 2 super similar morphs, but I reeeeeally like the idea of being able to use this new ability WITH blastbones. Since it's from a blastbones morph, we lose blastbones to use it. That's the class main identity thrown away for a buffing skill that best buffs the ability it replaces instead.

Eek!

Though I do agree combining the two morphs into one would at least serve to prevent total tragedy....

Fair enough, but don't you think you're view of Necro is based on a lack of skill morph diversity? Like I'm not disagreeing, Blastbones is 100% what I think of as Necro's bread and butter..

But at the same time, I once thought that about Crystal Frags and Curse for Sorc. Yet Sorc has options for Bound Armaments an entirely new skill from a few years ago, and Crystal Weapon which replaced 1 of the underutilized Frag morphs for something completely new that many people attribute to Sorc's identity today.

If this new skill change was coupled with a Skeletal Mage morph that became a short duration, but really high pressure dot, then it would make WAY more sense.. but it's like okay, you're giving up your best burst for dots instead, but how do you actually make that work?

Like imagine a Skeletal Archer was reduced to 5 seconds that channeled an attack like Balista with a more substantial stacking % damage multiplier each second. The pet could stand still, so counter play is line of sight.

Well there, now you have your burst back, but it's more pressure based and plays into that dot fantasy. Skeletal Mage morphs are really forgettable right now and something has to be done about them. For the other morph, you could add Major Brutality/Sorcery or Prophecy/Savagery.

MashmalloMan · January 30

No, keep the change as is

Urvoth wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I only say no because just like how you don't need 2 skeletal mage morphs doing basically the same thing, you don't need 2 Blastbone Morphs doing the same thing.

If they tweak Blighted to dynamically scale and add the Stalking damage bonus, it's both the original morphs in 1 and I can't see any reason as to why that's not possible.

The new skill has potential if the damage bonus was improved and the skill itself had a dot element added to it to reinforce the idea of becoming a dot build by giving up your most important skill, Blastbones.

Uhh yes you do. It's the primary damage skill for necros, so you should be able to choose between using the mag or stam version instead of just being forced into using the stam one. If they want to distinguish the morphs more, they should add additional effects on top of what the current skills do. Also, necro needs the damage boost on top of still having blastbones since the class is so far behind other classes at this point.

I don't think you read my actual comment.

MashmalloMan wrote: »

If they tweak Blighted to dynamically scale and add the Stalking damage bonus, it's both the original morphs in 1 and I can't see any reason as to why that's not possible.

Remiem · January 30

Sorc mains really trying their hardest to pass the "pet class" identity on necro lmao, I don't know why they even post about a class they don't touch.
Both morphs of blastbones saw use even if Stalking was the more popular one, you still had stamcros cheesing people with Blighted, Jerall and dot pressure. ZOS want to open up new ways to play the class, fine, but not at the price of the best damage skill when there is no lack of garbage skills that see next to no play in necromancer, both morphs of skeleton? detonating siphon? skull? GRAVE GRASP???

And what's up with the obsession with dots? because of the (nerfed) rapid rot passive? necro NEVER had a good class dot and it was at its best when it played like a burst class with boneyard synergy.

HowlKimchi · January 30

Yes, replace Skeletal Arcanist

Give it to skeletal arcanist, and make it give out major sorcery while were at it.

I like the idea/roleplay of having an assistant skeleton giving you the major sorc/brutality buff which is THE most essential buff in the game. Having a summon provide it is very necromancer.

MashmalloMan · January 30

No, keep the change as is

Remiem wrote: »

Sorc mains really trying their hardest to pass the "pet class" identity on necro lmao, I don't know why they even post about a class they don't touch.
Both morphs of blastbones saw use even if Stalking was the more popular one, you still had stamcros cheesing people with Blighted, Jerall and dot pressure. ZOS want to open up new ways to play the class, fine, but not at the price of the best damage skill when there is no lack of garbage skills that see next to no play in necromancer, both morphs of skeleton? detonating siphon? skull? GRAVE GRASP???

And what's up with the obsession with dots? because of the (nerfed) rapid rot passive? necro NEVER had a good class dot and it was at its best when it played like a burst class with boneyard synergy.

I'm literally the only Sorc main that commented here so I have to assume you mean me, but I didn't once mention anything about pushing Necro into being a pet class so I'm not sure why you feel so strongly about it?

Blastbones is a pet, Sacrificial Bones is not. If anything the new morph brings you out of pet class territory.

But yeah, all those other skills need buffs or reworks too. I just hope at the very least, they listen to feedback and improve the morph that is suppose to keep the original Blastbones playstyle in tact and experiment with the new morph.

DanteTheDeviant · January 30

Yes, replace Skeletal Arcanist

My heart sank when I read the patch notes, I thought they completely removed blastbones from the game. I'm relieved that they at least kept it in the form of blighted blastbones, but I really wish they would have buffed it to compensate for the loss of the guaranteed 10% damage from stalking blastbones.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · January 30

Other

Dont you dare toutch my skelly! Its the only minion the necro has, it should not be gutted like that.

RaptorRodeoGod · January 30

No, keep the change as is

I've waited years for an alternative to blastbones, this new skill is great and does phenomoinal deeps with venom skull

Faulgor · January 30

Other

This suggestion misses their reasoning for making the change in the first place - to give an alternative to the "complicated" Blastbones rotation, not to buff Blastbones further.

IMO they should scrap their original idea, instead having Blighted Blastbones apply a disease DoT to all enemies hit that ramps up over time. So you would get the most out of it by only using the skill every 10-20 seconds, having an easier rotation than the usual one with BB while also giving Necros another class DoT.

Then they could just buff the Rapid Rot passive if they wanted to buff Necro DoTs further.

Estin · January 30

Yes, replace Skeletal Arcanist

Faulgor wrote: »

This suggestion misses their reasoning for making the change in the first place - to give an alternative to the "complicated" Blastbones rotation, not to buff Blastbones further.

IMO they should scrap their original idea, instead having Blighted Blastbones apply a disease DoT to all enemies hit that ramps up over time. So you would get the most out of it by only using the skill every 10-20 seconds, having an easier rotation than the usual one with BB while also giving Necros another class DoT.

Then they could just buff the Rapid Rot passive if they wanted to buff Necro DoTs further.

I don't think it misses their reasoning entirely. Moving it to skeletal mage/arcanist opens up the same playstyle this current change just created while also buffing the skill people have issues with using. That means necros won't need to be reliant on blast bones to deal decent damage (what the current change did and simplified the rotation by a ton), but if you're able to properly use blastbones, you can take the class to great heights (what the current change doesn't do).

Blighted applying a DOT could be an idea, but the dot would need to be pretty damn strong to be comparable to current stalking blastbones

MashmalloMan · January 30

No, keep the change as is

sh4d0wh4z3 wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

This suggestion misses their reasoning for making the change in the first place - to give an alternative to the "complicated" Blastbones rotation, not to buff Blastbones further.

IMO they should scrap their original idea, instead having Blighted Blastbones apply a disease DoT to all enemies hit that ramps up over time. So you would get the most out of it by only using the skill every 10-20 seconds, having an easier rotation than the usual one with BB while also giving Necros another class DoT.

Then they could just buff the Rapid Rot passive if they wanted to buff Necro DoTs further.

I don't think it misses their reasoning entirely. Moving it to skeletal mage/arcanist opens up the same playstyle this current change just created while also buffing the skill people have issues with using. That means necros won't need to be reliant on blast bones to deal decent damage (what the current change did and simplified the rotation by a ton), but if you're able to properly use blastbones, you can take the class to great heights (what the current change doesn't do).

Blighted applying a DOT could be an idea, but the dot would need to be pretty damn strong to be comparable to current stalking blastbones

Something tells me that conceptually, they only allowed a 20% buff for 20s to Grave Lord skills (and dots) because you have to give up Blastbones to do it. If it moved to a weaker skill without any risk, then it would be a completely different ability. I doubt they want you to be able to increase your burst skill farther than what it's intentionally balanced around.

I mean yeah, they could slap it on a Skele Mage morph, but now every single build would just be forced to use it instead of providing an alternate way to play Necro which was their intention to begin with. Now you're even more forced into the 3s rotation as BB is buffed by +20%

OtarTheMad · January 30

Yes, replace Skeletal Arcanist

MashmalloMan wrote: »

sh4d0wh4z3 wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

This suggestion misses their reasoning for making the change in the first place - to give an alternative to the "complicated" Blastbones rotation, not to buff Blastbones further.

IMO they should scrap their original idea, instead having Blighted Blastbones apply a disease DoT to all enemies hit that ramps up over time. So you would get the most out of it by only using the skill every 10-20 seconds, having an easier rotation than the usual one with BB while also giving Necros another class DoT.

Then they could just buff the Rapid Rot passive if they wanted to buff Necro DoTs further.

I don't think it misses their reasoning entirely. Moving it to skeletal mage/arcanist opens up the same playstyle this current change just created while also buffing the skill people have issues with using. That means necros won't need to be reliant on blast bones to deal decent damage (what the current change did and simplified the rotation by a ton), but if you're able to properly use blastbones, you can take the class to great heights (what the current change doesn't do).

Blighted applying a DOT could be an idea, but the dot would need to be pretty damn strong to be comparable to current stalking blastbones

Something tells me that conceptually, they only allowed a 20% buff for 20s to Grave Lord skills (and dots) because you have to give up Blastbones to do it. If it moved to a weaker skill without any risk, then it would be a completely different ability. I doubt they want you to be able to increase your burst skill farther than what it's intentionally balanced around.

I mean yeah, they could slap it on a Skele Mage morph, but now every single build would just be forced to use it instead of providing an alternate way to play Necro which was their intention to begin with. Now you're even more forced into the 3s rotation as BB is buffed by +20%

I guess that’s the divide between PvE and PvP. I mean in PvE necro is bottom of the barrel but you can use Necro classes offensive abilities but in PvP whether that’s Cyro, BGs or duels. No player is gonna stand in your Boneyard, or between your tethers and they will laugh off your Skeletal mage and dodge your slow Skulls. The only ability we had in PvP that was a Necro offensive ability was BB and now we don’t. Blighted doesn’t hit as hard.

To me this makes Magcro or maybe even Necromancer dead as a damage class.

MashmalloMan · January 30

No, keep the change as is

OtarTheMad wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

sh4d0wh4z3 wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

This suggestion misses their reasoning for making the change in the first place - to give an alternative to the "complicated" Blastbones rotation, not to buff Blastbones further.

IMO they should scrap their original idea, instead having Blighted Blastbones apply a disease DoT to all enemies hit that ramps up over time. So you would get the most out of it by only using the skill every 10-20 seconds, having an easier rotation than the usual one with BB while also giving Necros another class DoT.

Then they could just buff the Rapid Rot passive if they wanted to buff Necro DoTs further.

I don't think it misses their reasoning entirely. Moving it to skeletal mage/arcanist opens up the same playstyle this current change just created while also buffing the skill people have issues with using. That means necros won't need to be reliant on blast bones to deal decent damage (what the current change did and simplified the rotation by a ton), but if you're able to properly use blastbones, you can take the class to great heights (what the current change doesn't do).

Blighted applying a DOT could be an idea, but the dot would need to be pretty damn strong to be comparable to current stalking blastbones

Something tells me that conceptually, they only allowed a 20% buff for 20s to Grave Lord skills (and dots) because you have to give up Blastbones to do it. If it moved to a weaker skill without any risk, then it would be a completely different ability. I doubt they want you to be able to increase your burst skill farther than what it's intentionally balanced around.

I mean yeah, they could slap it on a Skele Mage morph, but now every single build would just be forced to use it instead of providing an alternate way to play Necro which was their intention to begin with. Now you're even more forced into the 3s rotation as BB is buffed by +20%

I guess that’s the divide between PvE and PvP. I mean in PvE necro is bottom of the barrel but you can use Necro classes offensive abilities but in PvP whether that’s Cyro, BGs or duels. No player is gonna stand in your Boneyard, or between your tethers and they will laugh off your Skeletal mage and dodge your slow Skulls. The only ability we had in PvP that was a Necro offensive ability was BB and now we don’t. Blighted doesn’t hit as hard.

To me this makes Magcro or maybe even Necromancer dead as a damage class.

100%, I just don't think it's as simple as "send the new morph to x skill instead". It only exists because it replaces BB, I'd say quote the devs, make them stick to their intent in making 2 different playstyles where 1 keeps the status quo... which they clearly haven't done because Blighted doesn't dynamically scale and doesn't get a damage boost that Stalking has. At minimum, fix that, then look at how to make the new skill viable and fun to use.

Estin · January 30

Yes, replace Skeletal Arcanist

MashmalloMan wrote: »

sh4d0wh4z3 wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

This suggestion misses their reasoning for making the change in the first place - to give an alternative to the "complicated" Blastbones rotation, not to buff Blastbones further.

IMO they should scrap their original idea, instead having Blighted Blastbones apply a disease DoT to all enemies hit that ramps up over time. So you would get the most out of it by only using the skill every 10-20 seconds, having an easier rotation than the usual one with BB while also giving Necros another class DoT.

Then they could just buff the Rapid Rot passive if they wanted to buff Necro DoTs further.

I don't think it misses their reasoning entirely. Moving it to skeletal mage/arcanist opens up the same playstyle this current change just created while also buffing the skill people have issues with using. That means necros won't need to be reliant on blast bones to deal decent damage (what the current change did and simplified the rotation by a ton), but if you're able to properly use blastbones, you can take the class to great heights (what the current change doesn't do).

Blighted applying a DOT could be an idea, but the dot would need to be pretty damn strong to be comparable to current stalking blastbones

Something tells me that conceptually, they only allowed a 20% buff for 20s to Grave Lord skills (and dots) because you have to give up Blastbones to do it. If it moved to a weaker skill without any risk, then it would be a completely different ability. I doubt they want you to be able to increase your burst skill farther than what it's intentionally balanced around.

I mean yeah, they could slap it on a Skele Mage morph, but now every single build would just be forced to use it instead of providing an alternate way to play Necro which was their intention to begin with. Now you're even more forced into the 3s rotation as BB is buffed by +20%

Yeah, I can see where they would have thought of that, and that opens up a whole can of worms on how to move forward with the idea. Something akin to nerfing blastbones so the 20% damage buff is only ~10% for it, and then overhaul skeletal arcanist/archer so they both provide the gravelord buff, but arcanist is dot and archer is a smaller direct damage buff so it's not dangerously boosting the damage of blastbones. You won't need to be forced to use blastbones if you want decent damage or to enjoy the class, only if you want to push for higher numbers. If they want to go further with the ease of access to the class, they can also make blighted act just like sub assault. Split the damage between 2 explosions and make it do 10-20% less damage than manually casting 2 blastbones.

Or they can do it the easy way and make blighted work exactly like current stalking. That way there necro gets a more accessible playstyle, but ultimately nothing changes and the class is still in a bad spot.

Rasande_Robin · January 30

Yes, replace Skeletal Arcanist

100% this since that useless morph can't proc EC anyways!

MotherOfMoss · January 30

Yes, replace Skeletal Arcanist

I don't much care which other skill it should be – almost any will do, it can sit on my backbar while I continue having a functioning Blastbones ability next to my spammable and all will be well!

JerBearESO · January 31

Yes, replace Skeletal Arcanist

MotherOfMoss wrote: »

I don't much care which other skill it should be – almost any will do, it can sit on my backbar while I continue having a functioning Blastbones ability next to my spammable and all will be well!

Exactly. Although I best like the idea of it replacing Skele Arcanist, I think it could also replace almost anything in the kit besides blastbones and we would all be tremendously happy with the change. Like it would make the class shine for once.

It will be sad if they miss this opportunity....

The Elder Scrolls Online

Move Grave Lord's Sacrifice to one of the Skeletal Mage morphs

Move Grave Lord's Sacrifice to one of the Skeletal Mage morphs 74 votes