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Awful PvP meta

Overamera
Overamera
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I really hope they have done something about this meta. Masters dual wield, Vateshran, Relequen, Dragons appetite, Jeralls, maarselok. Everyone is running the same and if you don't do it you are putting yourself in a huge disadvantage. Plus that arcanist with it's huge defense is broken with these sets. Pretty much unkillable while it can deal so much damage.
  • Rhaegar75
    Rhaegar75
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    Overamera wrote: »
    I really hope they have done something about this meta. Masters dual wield, Vateshran, Relequen, Dragons appetite, Jeralls, maarselok. Everyone is running the same and if you don't do it you are putting yourself in a huge disadvantage. Plus that arcanist with it's huge defense is broken with these sets. Pretty much unkillable while it can deal so much damage.

    /seconded
  • olsborg
    olsborg
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    Rhaegar75 wrote: »
    Overamera wrote: »
    I really hope they have done something about this meta. Masters dual wield, Vateshran, Relequen, Dragons appetite, Jeralls, maarselok. Everyone is running the same and if you don't do it you are putting yourself in a huge disadvantage. Plus that arcanist with it's huge defense is broken with these sets. Pretty much unkillable while it can deal so much damage.

    /seconded

    /thirded

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • StarOfElyon
    StarOfElyon
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    I've said it a hundred times: procs that do damage and heal for you will always be bad for PVP.
  • mmtaniac
    mmtaniac
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    Biggest problem is undeath.
  • Overamera
    Overamera
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    mmtaniac wrote: »
    Biggest problem is undeath.

    I agree, undeath is also incredibly broken.
  • Frooke
    Frooke
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    mmtaniac wrote: »
    Biggest problem is undeath.

    Undeath is the only thing keeping everyone alive in this meta, proc sets shouldn't scale so well with low weapon/spell damage, and heal with max health is ruining pvp
  • Galeriano
    Galeriano
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    I've said it a hundred times: procs that do damage and heal for you will always be bad for PVP.

    Well somehow non proc IC and Cyro are as far from being balanced as regular campaigns.
  • xylena_lazarow
    xylena_lazarow
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    Counterpoint: I love procs. This is a one of the better metas in a while. Damage has recovered somewhat since the tragic u35. Proc complainers are just a vocal minority as evidenced by the complete failure of Ravenwatch.
    PC/NA || CP/Cyro || RIP soft caps
  • olsborg
    olsborg
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    Undeath is the main culprit to this meta imo, and healing while blocking is also just super strong.

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • olsborg
    olsborg
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    Counterpoint: I love procs. This is a one of the better metas in a while. Damage has recovered somewhat since the tragic u35. Proc complainers are just a vocal minority as evidenced by the complete failure of Ravenwatch.

    Its not a complete failure at all, sure its quite empty during the daytime, but at 20-23CET its 2 to 3 bars across the board and bussing. I think if ZOS made it more clear wich sets worked and wich didnt work from an ingame UI somehow, it would be more active, also they should add a few more sets like the sets that "procc" with stats if you have a food or a drink for instance.

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • ArctosCethlenn
    ArctosCethlenn
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    Galeriano wrote: »
    I've said it a hundred times: procs that do damage and heal for you will always be bad for PVP.

    Well somehow non proc IC and Cyro are as far from being balanced as regular campaigns.

    Not at all shocking, the classes with absolutely garbage class kits (looking at you, necromancer) can at least bandaid their problems with proc sets in the regular campaigns.
  • Tyrant_Tim
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    Had to rope Relequen in there too, didn’t you?

    While I agree with the majority of your OP, I don’t agree with nerfing Relequen’s DPS. That is the last thing players are going to want to deal with in PvE, and will gut ranged builds in PvP.
  • StarOfElyon
    StarOfElyon
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    Frooke wrote: »
    mmtaniac wrote: »
    Biggest problem is undeath.

    Undeath is the only thing keeping everyone alive in this meta, proc sets shouldn't scale so well with low weapon/spell damage, and heal with max health is ruining pvp

    I play non-vampire on a number of my characters. Players are supposed to die. But I agree that procs are a serious problem.
    Edited by StarOfElyon on January 29, 2024 5:16PM
  • Twohothardware
    Twohothardware
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    Damage scaling needs to be completely overhauled and taken back to when max stamina and magicka was important and proc sets need to stop dealing a flat amount of damage. Procs need to go back to being scaled based on damage.

    They made this change because of the high damage players used to be able to do with procs but you want to know what was different about that meta? No one was running over 30k health.

    I’d much rather have a high damage meta where players die fast than a meta with 40k+ health ballgroups that are unkillable without multiple bombers.
  • Tyrant_Tim
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    olsborg wrote: »
    Undeath is the main culprit to this meta imo, and healing while blocking is also just super strong.

    It’s honestly using any skills while blocking.

    Block-casting in general has always been an overperforming mechanic, which is why a class like DK trades off zero defense when going offensive.
  • gariondavey
    gariondavey
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    Counterpoint: I love procs. This is a one of the better metas in a while. Damage has recovered somewhat since the tragic u35. Proc complainers are just a vocal minority as evidenced by the complete failure of Ravenwatch.

    I'd prefer no proc damage or proc healing but I also like being able to back bar sets like wretched vitality or rallying cry, and use more than like 3 mythics that rw offers.

    If they reworked rw to include proc stat sets that would be awesome.
    PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden
  • JerBearESO
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    Tyrant_Tim wrote: »
    olsborg wrote: »
    Undeath is the main culprit to this meta imo, and healing while blocking is also just super strong.

    It’s honestly using any skills while blocking.

    Block-casting in general has always been an overperforming mechanic, which is why a class like DK trades off zero defense when going offensive.

    Block casting is not overpowered. The idea of trying to fix things by making the player somehow unable to block and use abilities is odd. Like so they drop block for 0.0001 seconds to cast an ability and re block???

    Anyway, block mitigation itself is the problem. Battle spirit should cut that in half
    Edited by JerBearESO on January 29, 2024 6:23PM
  • Dekrypted
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    Quoting myself from another thread.
    Dekrypted wrote: »
    Breaking my silence on the forums just to comment on this.

    This current meta as it relates to pvp is increasingly intolerable. The more you learn about pvp and the combat as it relates to the pvp system as a whole, the more frustrating it is. From skills across multiple toons having huge disparities to a huge lack of build diversity that has persisted for a long time now. A lack of communication from the dev team and a lack of confidence from the remaining PvP community is reflective of the state of things a whole. Business as usual just doesn't cut it. It hasn't been sufficient, atleast in my opinion, for many years.

    Sets can be buffed, but also adjusted to only effect monsters. More battle spirit deendant sets can be added. There are things that could've been done for years..

    There have been similar threads mentioned about alot of what has been mentioned in this one, but the sentiment remains the same. Things can't simply stay the way they have been. People ask me, a person with over 23k hours in this game if I recommend it. I, to this day, tell them no. I'd love to be able to, but I can't justify putting people through what the Rollercoaster that we call this game.

    There is work to do and there's alot of light-touch things that could've been accomplished years ago. The combat design/system that eso has is unique and engaging. It's one of the few things that keep people coming back and or wanting to keep playing. I know alot of people who've stuck around for friends, but it's pretty easy to link up outside of this game.

    Would love a reason to recommend this game again to people.
    Edited by Dekrypted on January 29, 2024 6:30PM
    PC NA
    March 2014 - December 2023
    No longer active

    Templar Main
  • Zulera301
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    so in other words, the proc-set-of-the-month is OP, ZOS nerf plz.

    not to say that this isn't problematic, but this has literally been ZOS's formula for almost a decade. The odds of them ever bothering to change it is between 0.000 and 0.000.
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  • StarOfElyon
    StarOfElyon
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    Counterpoint: I love procs. This is a one of the better metas in a while. Damage has recovered somewhat since the tragic u35. Proc complainers are just a vocal minority as evidenced by the complete failure of Ravenwatch.

    I'd prefer no proc damage or proc healing but I also like being able to back bar sets like wretched vitality or rallying cry, and use more than like 3 mythics that rw offers.

    If they reworked rw to include proc stat sets that would be awesome.

    Isn't that part of what causes a "meta" to emerge? As much as I crutch on Wretched Vitality, it's made other sustain sets obsolete because it can be back barred. I would like sets that must be worn at all times in order to get their effects to be buffed to be on par with sets that can be single barred.
  • Kartalin
    Kartalin
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    Counterpoint: I love procs. This is a one of the better metas in a while. Damage has recovered somewhat since the tragic u35. Proc complainers are just a vocal minority as evidenced by the complete failure of Ravenwatch.

    I'd prefer no proc damage or proc healing but I also like being able to back bar sets like wretched vitality or rallying cry, and use more than like 3 mythics that rw offers.

    If they reworked rw to include proc stat sets that would be awesome.

    Isn't that part of what causes a "meta" to emerge? As much as I crutch on Wretched Vitality, it's made other sustain sets obsolete because it can be back barred. I would like sets that must be worn at all times in order to get their effects to be buffed to be on par with sets that can be single barred.

    Exactly. I wonder if the ability to get the full benefit of a set from running it on just one bar is factored into their balancing. I can't imagine very many people using Bright Throat or Bone Pirate anymore with Wretched Vitality available, especially since hybridization happened.

    Also agree with @gariondavey that if no proc only excluded damage and healing procs (especially the free ones) it might be a lot more interesting to theorycraft for that scenario. I think at its inception that's kind of what we were hoping would happen.
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  • HaruKamui
    HaruKamui
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    If you think this PvP meta is awful, then you probably werent actively playing a few updates ago. The meta then actually made me stop playing (along with poor server performance). These days, I started playing again and the experience has been pleasant (both the meta and server performance).

    And regarding your point about everyone running the same thing. It has always been like that, regardless of how "good"
    or "awful" the meta is. People will follow what's popular. If you actually stop and think, since everyone is running the same thing, you could theoretically make your own build that counters the meta.
    PC/NA - Haru Kamui/Howl Beoulve

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