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Trolls in Evermore, Part 2

Serpari
Serpari
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So, who do I need to contact to escalate the countless tickets I've submitted about player harassment in Evermore tavern? I am now at over 10GB of video evidence of various players purposely spamming mementos, spamming abilities, attacking NPCs and using them to knock people out of place/out of their emotes, and harassing people in zone chat. It's the same people consistently, with documented harassment that spans years.

Does Zenimax care at all? Why should I continue to pay a subscription for an MMO where the TOS isn't being taken seriously at all, where I have documented rule breaking extensively, yet nothing is done? There's a character I can no longer play in, fully leveled and geared, because these trolls have become obsessed with harassing him.

For context, here is me talking about this exact issue nearly a year ago, where I don't just simply complain, but also offer solutions: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/632183/trolls-in-evermore-public-rping
Edited by Serpari on January 24, 2024 7:25PM


The bird of Hermes is my name
Eating my wings to make me tame
  • DocFrost72
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    As a roleplayer, I feel your pain. There are certainly people who take their RP far too seriously, but that doesn't excuse the state Evermore's been in (and for quite some time). Unfortunately, the reality is twofold.

    Primarily, it is my sincere belief that housing and other player controlled instances provided the softer stance on trolling rp ZOS has taken. I'm not even remotely suggesting taking housing away, or even that it is a bad thing. What I'm suggesting is that with the ability to curate your environment, there is less pressure to police public (shared) instances.

    Second, there is no reliable in game (or really third party for that matter) method to generate interest and awareness for events in these curated spaces where protection against trolls is effortless. Imagine, for a moment, if Evermore had a blacklist you controlled, and everyone knew to go there for RP. Sounds fantastic, yeah? That's the key element that will.fix RP in ESO. A method or community to take note of, host, and attend events easily.

    Until then, try to stay sane and meet some folks in Evermore, then take it to instanced areas where you have control. It sucks, but it's how my College for the Magickal Arts guild has been doing it, and it works well enough.

    Maybe, ZOS, you might be able to help institute an improved LFG for RP in ESO as well? Please and thank you!
  • ESO_player123
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    Can't the new group finder be used for forming a group for RPing?
    DocFrost72 wrote: »
    As a roleplayer, I feel your pain. There are certainly people who take their RP far too seriously, but that doesn't excuse the state Evermore's been in (and for quite some time). Unfortunately, the reality is twofold.

    Primarily, it is my sincere belief that housing and other player controlled instances provided the softer stance on trolling rp ZOS has taken. I'm not even remotely suggesting taking housing away, or even that it is a bad thing. What I'm suggesting is that with the ability to curate your environment, there is less pressure to police public (shared) instances.

    Second, there is no reliable in game (or really third party for that matter) method to generate interest and awareness for events in these curated spaces where protection against trolls is effortless. Imagine, for a moment, if Evermore had a blacklist you controlled, and everyone knew to go there for RP. Sounds fantastic, yeah? That's the key element that will.fix RP in ESO. A method or community to take note of, host, and attend events easily.

    Until then, try to stay sane and meet some folks in Evermore, then take it to instanced areas where you have control. It sucks, but it's how my College for the Magickal Arts guild has been doing it, and it works well enough.

    Maybe, ZOS, you might be able to help institute an improved LFG for RP in ESO as well? Please and thank you!

    Can't the new group finder be used for forming a group for RPing?
  • Serpari
    Serpari
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    I should've specified that I already do all of the above things—I group up with people then leave for private residences, I coordinate through Discord RP servers and the like, etcetera. None of that solves my issue, however, nor does it answer my question. Sometimes I'm not even RPing, I'm there to use the vendors or level Legerdemain, and there I see these people trolling other people, and sometimes myself.

    Does this game even have a functioning Abuse/Harassment team, a team fielded by actual human beings who read the reports? Or is it all automated now? Should I even bother reporting these people, hosting these video files with evidence?
    Edited by Serpari on January 24, 2024 5:12AM


    The bird of Hermes is my name
    Eating my wings to make me tame
  • DocFrost72
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    Serpari wrote: »
    I should've specified that I already do all of the above things—I group up with people then leave for private residences, I coordinate through Discord RP servers and the like, etcetera. None of that solves my issue, however, nor does it answer my question. Sometimes I'm not even RPing, I'm there to use the vendors or level Legerdemain, and there I see these people trolling other people, and sometimes myself.

    Does this game even have a functioning Abuse/Harassment team, a team fielded by actual human beings who read the reports? Or is it all automated now? Should I even bother reporting these people, hosting these video files with evidence?

    Put a level of effort in that you're willing to sustain for the results you get on the output. I'm not on ZOS' discipline team, so I don't have the answer to the other questions. If you think you're doing all this reporting/recording for nothing, then take your own mental health into account first.

    As for me, I report for generic "trolling RPers at Evermore 2200 -2315 EST on 1/23". Takes two seconds, tells the review team who and what to look for and where in chat logs.
  • xTAKISx
    xTAKISx
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    I frequent Evermore just to watch and enjoy the RP vibe, sometimes participate. It's a *** show most of the time with people killing NPCs and throwing mudballs at everyone. The verbal abuse is sickening and ZOS does nothing. Unfortunate.
  • Roztlin45
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    Maybe have a role play friendly zone(s) where disruptive and rude behavior can actually be managed by ZOS.? In these areas you que up for like dungeons . Nothing changes except your ability to see and interact with other live players. Just a thought.
  • spartaxoxo
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    Do you have a ticket number(s) so that
    @ZOS_Kevin can see?
    Edited by spartaxoxo on January 24, 2024 2:09PM
  • Braffin
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    Somewhat unrelated question: Is this issue tied to a specific server? On pc eu one of my toons (dunmer refugee avoiding the tribunal blasphemy) lives in Evermore and I neither witnessed RPing nor harassment.

    That said, those people should be banned permanently.

    On a sidenote: Visited "Riften Registry" (something I didn't know of) and wasn't amused. 16 players are listed there, most of the entries lack proof of harassment. The style is rather polemic. All in all it's looking like harassment too tbh.
    Never get between a cat and it's candy!
    ---
    Overland difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including One Tamriel, an overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver & Gold as a "you think you do but you don't" - tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game. I'm bored of dungeons, I'm bored of trials; make a personal difficulty slider for overland. It's not that hard.
  • Kendaric
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    Roztlin45 wrote: »
    Maybe have a role play friendly zone(s) where disruptive and rude behavior can actually be managed by ZOS.? In these areas you que up for like dungeons . Nothing changes except your ability to see and interact with other live players. Just a thought.

    The only way it would work would be either by having a RP server or RP instance. Neither of which will happen sadly, since ZOS doesn't want to split the playerbase.
    Unfortunately that means that open world RP is basically dead and RP mostly takes place in private homes. It shouldn't be that way, but sadly it is for the foreseeable future.
      PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!. Outfit slots not being accountwide is ridiculous given their price. PC EU/PC NA roleplayer and solo PvE quester
    • spartaxoxo
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      Braffin wrote: »
      Somewhat unrelated question: Is this issue tied to a specific server? On pc eu one of my toons (dunmer refugee avoiding the tribunal blasphemy) lives in Evermore and I neither witnessed RPing nor harassment.

      That said, those people should be banned permanently.

      On a sidenote: Visited [snipped to remove site] (something I didn't know of) and wasn't amused. 16 players are listed there, most of the entries lack proof of harassment. The style is rather polemic. All in all it's looking like harassment too tbh.

      Just because the proof is not publicly available, it doesn't mean the proof is lacking. The OP mentions extensive amount of proof that they own and are maintaining. Hopefully they turn that proof over to ZOS. As for a the website, that doesn't look like something that should have been shared to a broader audience here on the forums. It's one thing for a guild or rp group to keep their own private banlist, it's another to share it.

      @Serpari

      I recommend removing mention of that website as there is a forum rule about naming and shaming.
      Edited by spartaxoxo on January 24, 2024 2:31PM
    • Syldras
      Syldras
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      Braffin wrote: »
      On a sidenote: Visited "Riften Registry" (something I didn't know of) and wasn't amused. 16 players are listed there, most of the entries lack proof of harassment. The style is rather polemic. All in all it's looking like harassment too tbh.

      The weirdest thing to me is how most entries emphasize "cheating on girlfriends" and other details like that, so it doesn't really look like it's about strangers showing up at a tavern and mudballing or insulting random roleplayers.
      @Syldras | PC | EU
      The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
      Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
      Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
      Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
    • spartaxoxo
      spartaxoxo
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      Syldras wrote: »
      Braffin wrote: »
      On a sidenote: Visited "Riften Registry" (something I didn't know of) and wasn't amused. 16 players are listed there, most of the entries lack proof of harassment. The style is rather polemic. All in all it's looking like harassment too tbh.

      The weirdest thing to me is how most entries emphasize "cheating on girlfriends" and other details like that, so it doesn't really look like it's about strangers showing up at a tavern and mudballing or insulting random roleplayers.

      A ton of it just sounds like sore losers in duels

      Wildly, the website describes them harassing one of the people on the list without any self awareness. Which makes it appear even sketchier. OP says they have a lot of video evidence, so I hope ZOS can get to the bottom of things.

      Edited by spartaxoxo on January 24, 2024 2:46PM
    • Kendaric
      Kendaric
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      Braffin wrote: »
      Somewhat unrelated question: Is this issue tied to a specific server? On pc eu one of my toons (dunmer refugee avoiding the tribunal blasphemy) lives in Evermore and I neither witnessed RPing nor harassment.

      That said, those people should be banned permanently.

      On a sidenote: Visited "Riften Registry" (something I didn't know of) and wasn't amused. 16 players are listed there, most of the entries lack proof of harassment. The style is rather polemic. All in all it's looking like harassment too tbh.

      It's mostly on PC NA, at least that's where I've witnessed it. On PC EU I have had far fewer cases, but it happens as well (though Evermore isn't usually a RP hotspot on PC EU).
        PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!. Outfit slots not being accountwide is ridiculous given their price. PC EU/PC NA roleplayer and solo PvE quester
      • fizl101
        fizl101
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        spartaxoxo wrote: »
        Syldras wrote: »
        Braffin wrote: »
        On a sidenote: Visited "Riften Registry" (something I didn't know of) and wasn't amused. 16 players are listed there, most of the entries lack proof of harassment. The style is rather polemic. All in all it's looking like harassment too tbh.

        The weirdest thing to me is how most entries emphasize "cheating on girlfriends" and other details like that, so it doesn't really look like it's about strangers showing up at a tavern and mudballing or insulting random roleplayers.

        A ton of it just sounds like sore losers in duels

        Wildly, the website describes them harassing one of the people on the list without any self awareness. Which makes it appear even sketchier. OP says they have a lot of video evidence, so I hope ZOS can get to the bottom of things.

        One of them says they are very old (50). I'm ancient then lol

        For the OP - I assume you have an active ticket that you can put the ticket number here. Of course you won't be able to be informed of actions (if any) to those players but it can be checked for updates etc
        Soupy twist
      • Syldras
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        spartaxoxo wrote: »
        A ton of it just sounds like sore losers in duels

        Yeah, but the first two pages I opened were really texts critizicing details like "cheats on his girlfriend/fiancee" and then there's huge drama including long chat protocols and even something about someone of the "good" users creating a fake profile claiming to be 17 years old to "prove" that the bad troll flirts with minors - this looks very much like a personal feud going on (and to be honest, to me it looks like adult people behaving like silly little children, sorry for being that direct).

        That said, I don't doubt that there are random people harassing roleplayers by spamming emotes at them, and it's also no secret that there are awful people spamming the chat with personal, insults, hatespeech, and what not. That's awful and I'd wish the mods would do more against these people. I also stand by the opinion that it's a pity that roleplay in the open seems almost impossible due to trolls.

        @Syldras | PC | EU
        The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
        Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
        Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
        Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
      • spartaxoxo
        spartaxoxo
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        Syldras wrote: »
        spartaxoxo wrote: »
        A ton of it just sounds like sore losers in duels

        Yeah, but the first two pages I opened were really texts critizicing details like "cheats on his girlfriend/fiancee" and then there's huge drama including long chat protocols and even something about someone of the "good" users creating a fake profile claiming to be 17 years old to "prove" that the bad troll flirts with minors - this looks very much like a personal feud going on (and to be honest, to me it looks like adult people behaving like silly little children, sorry for being that direct).

        That said, I don't doubt that there are random people harassing roleplayers by spamming emotes at them, and it's also no secret that there are awful people spamming the chat with personal, insults, hatespeech, and what not. That's awful and I'd wish the mods would do more against these people. I also stand by the opinion that it's a pity that roleplay in the open seems almost impossible due to trolls.

        If the minor one is true, then good riddance.

        As for the one about the guy who cheated on his girlfriend and hits on women, the way they wrote it makes me feel like they are possibly harassing him. .

        It does sound to me like personal beef between these parties with both sides breaking rules, and ZOS is just handling it by letting them block each other and sort it out themselves because most of it is very petty.
        Edited by spartaxoxo on January 24, 2024 3:47PM
      • Syldras
        Syldras
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        spartaxoxo wrote: »
        If the minor one is true, then good riddance.
        As for the one about the guy who cheated on his girlfriend and hits on women, the way they wrote it makes me feel like they are possibly harassing him. .
        It does sound to me like personal beef between these parties with both sides breaking rules, and ZOS is just handling it by letting them block each other and sort it out themselves because most of it is very petty.

        To me it looks like they're possibly all still minors, at least from the way they behave... I actually feel sorry for the mods if they have to deal with things like this on a regular basis!
        @Syldras | PC | EU
        The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
        Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
        Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
        Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
      • Serpari
        Serpari
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        spartaxoxo wrote: »
        Syldras wrote: »
        Braffin wrote: »
        On a sidenote: Visited "Riften Registry" (something I didn't know of) and wasn't amused. 16 players are listed there, most of the entries lack proof of harassment. The style is rather polemic. All in all it's looking like harassment too tbh.

        The weirdest thing to me is how most entries emphasize "cheating on girlfriends" and other details like that, so it doesn't really look like it's about strangers showing up at a tavern and mudballing or insulting random roleplayers.

        A ton of it just sounds like sore losers in duels

        Wildly, the website describes them harassing one of the people on the list without any self awareness. Which makes it appear even sketchier. OP says they have a lot of video evidence, so I hope ZOS can get to the bottom of things.

        Why do people always think this is about losing duels in PVP? I have over 10GB of evidence of trolls using Evermore RPers as their personal stress balls, and 90% of the people targeted don't PVP at all. Meanwhile, some of the trolls doing this who have been doing it for years happen to be hardcore PVPers, but some are not. RPers, for the most part, leave other people alone and don't let their drama spill to other communities. If anything, you can time the increased harassment with PVP related drama, not the other way around. The other day one of the well-known trolls came by Evermore to troll people after it was confirmed they were outed from their PVP guild for—surprise surprise—harassment and abuse of other PVPers.

        I PVP too. But I'm an adult, so when someone kills me in Cyrodiil, I don't go to Evermore to spam them with mudballs for over half an hour, as it was done to me by people I certainly did not fight in Cyrodiil at all.

        I have all of these people on Ignore. It still doesn't solve my issue, which is mudballing, memento spamming, and using NPCs to knock you out of place and emotes.
        Syldras wrote: »
        spartaxoxo wrote: »
        If the minor one is true, then good riddance.
        As for the one about the guy who cheated on his girlfriend and hits on women, the way they wrote it makes me feel like they are possibly harassing him. .
        It does sound to me like personal beef between these parties with both sides breaking rules, and ZOS is just handling it by letting them block each other and sort it out themselves because most of it is very petty.

        To me it looks like they're possibly all still minors, at least from the way they behave... I actually feel sorry for the mods if they have to deal with things like this on a regular basis!

        It was indeed a minor involved. To this day that remains one of the only instances we can name where ZOS actually acted on evidence and banned someone.
        fizl101 wrote: »
        spartaxoxo wrote: »
        Syldras wrote: »
        Braffin wrote: »
        On a sidenote: Visited "Riften Registry" (something I didn't know of) and wasn't amused. 16 players are listed there, most of the entries lack proof of harassment. The style is rather polemic. All in all it's looking like harassment too tbh.

        The weirdest thing to me is how most entries emphasize "cheating on girlfriends" and other details like that, so it doesn't really look like it's about strangers showing up at a tavern and mudballing or insulting random roleplayers.

        A ton of it just sounds like sore losers in duels

        Wildly, the website describes them harassing one of the people on the list without any self awareness. Which makes it appear even sketchier. OP says they have a lot of video evidence, so I hope ZOS can get to the bottom of things.

        One of them says they are very old (50). I'm ancient then lol

        For the OP - I assume you have an active ticket that you can put the ticket number here. Of course you won't be able to be informed of actions (if any) to those players but it can be checked for updates etc

        6qiwcm63u6cu.png

        It looks like a lot, but this is a period of over a year. I submit every single ticket with location, timestamp and short description of the trolling, PLUS a video (hence my over 10GB of video evidence). Not a single ticket has ever been updated in any way, shape or form that I can check. And the reported people continue to show up to troll like the daily news.
        Don't bother. This kind of in-game harassment is actively encouraged by the game designers. There are event activities and achievements based on harassing others, and they even sell tools for harassment on the premium currency store:
        s7tzfz4zrqhu.png

        It really does suck that people use these mementos to harass. I actually like the mementos system, I like showering my friends with flowers, or blowing a trumpet as a funny joke between friends. And I don't even mind when a stranger mudballs or pies me here and there. It's when these things are done endlessly, for ridiculous amounts of time (half an hour to over an hour once), that it chafes. If ESO is going to sell this stuff to us, they least they can do is make it clear its abuse won't be tolerated and, perhaps even, take away someone's ability to do so if they've been proven to have abused the privilege.
        Edited by Serpari on January 24, 2024 7:37PM


        The bird of Hermes is my name
        Eating my wings to make me tame
      • Serpari
        Serpari
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        Syldras wrote: »
        Serpari wrote: »
        It was indeed a minor involved. To this day that remains one of the only instances we can name where ZOS actually acted on evidence and banned someone.

        If a player harasses someone, no matter if adults or minors: Screenshot evidence, block the player, send evidence to the mods so they can take care of it.
        Not: Create a fake account, set a "trap" for the person, film it, put it on Youtube for the world to see.

        The amount of information given about the "trolls" on that website is unusual. If someone insults or annoys me in this game, I don't know more about this person than their user name and maybe that they're a racist or homophobe, before I block them. Not half of their life story including if they're married, cheating to their wife or whatever. That's definitively more interaction than I'd expect towards a random troll disturbing a few roleplayers sitting in a tavern.

        The website has derailed the conversation at hand. That is my bad, however, as I was the one who referenced the website. That being said, I can attest to being victim of a couple of players in that website as well. While the style of writing is polemic in nature, it's clear that website was created due to the playerbase's frustration at ZOS not taking reports seriously enough, or at all. I mean, here I am almost a year later after reporting various people through the official channels with extensive evidence, and nothing has been done. I don't approve of their methods but I sympathize with their frustrations.
        Edited by Serpari on January 24, 2024 8:30PM


        The bird of Hermes is my name
        Eating my wings to make me tame
      • Lugaldu
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        The worst zone chat can be found right next to the Vulkhel Guard wayshrine.
      • derkaiserliche
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        I understand the frustration but lets be honest here: Noone can ban a player for spamming skills or emotes.

        Maybe a solution would be to have a roleplay guild and meet up in the guildhouse (build and furnished like a tavern) and enjoy ur rp there in peace..
        Edited by derkaiserliche on January 24, 2024 8:30PM
      • Serpari
        Serpari
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        I understand the frustration but lets be honest here: Noone can ban a player for spamming skills or emotes.

        Maybe a solution would be to have a roleplay guild and meet up in the guildhouse (build and furnished like a tavern) and enjoy ur rp there in peace..

        When abused as a tool for harassment? They absolutely can and they have done so in the past. It's also in the TOS. And again, I already do these things (going into a private residence and RPing there). Still doesn't solve my problem of being harassed in public.
        Edited by Serpari on January 24, 2024 8:32PM


        The bird of Hermes is my name
        Eating my wings to make me tame
      • vsrs_au
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        Serpari wrote: »
        I understand the frustration but lets be honest here: Noone can ban a player for spamming skills or emotes.

        Maybe a solution would be to have a roleplay guild and meet up in the guildhouse (build and furnished like a tavern) and enjoy ur rp there in peace..

        When abused as a tool for harassment? They absolutely can and they have done so in the past. It's also in the TOS.
        The RP players should also be able to RP in a normal ESO area with NPCs present, because that adds to the realism of the RP.
        PC(Steam) / EU / play from Melbourne, Australia / avg ping 390
      • Kendaric
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        I understand the frustration but lets be honest here: Noone can ban a player for spamming skills or emotes.

        Maybe a solution would be to have a roleplay guild and meet up in the guildhouse (build and furnished like a tavern) and enjoy ur rp there in peace..

        That is what most RPers do to avoid the trolling. However, housing isn't really viable as a solution for various reasons:

        - limited visitors
        - it must be the main residence or it can't be entered freely
        - it's basically limited to interactions between guild members, destroying one of the reasons for open world RP: Meeting new people and RP with them

        These problems wouldn't exist if ZOS had implemented separate RP instances but that won't happen.
          PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!. Outfit slots not being accountwide is ridiculous given their price. PC EU/PC NA roleplayer and solo PvE quester
        • ZOS_Kevin
          ZOS_Kevin
          Community Manager
          @Serpari If you have ticket numbers available, we can take them to customer service to take a look and figure out how to assist. Feel free to respond here or via DM.
          Community Manager for ZeniMax Online Studio and Elder Scrolls OnlineDev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter
          Staff Post
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