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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/653550/

ithelia makes perfect sense? (spoilers in discussion)

Stille_desAethers
please correct me if i'm getting something wrong. her name seems to evoke the greek "aletheia" to me, often translated as "truth," but actually closer to un-obliviating.

when you die in ancient greece, a nice man ferries you across the river lethe so that you may forget your mortal life. a-lethe is the negation of this process– a re-collection.

herma mora appears to have great interest in obliviating ithelia. he is after all a prince of the arcane– of secreting away knowledge. she is what refuses to be concealed. his shadow.

i'm no expert on the lore, but that is what first came to mind.


Edited by Stille_desAethers on January 23, 2024 3:16AM
Aus der Engel Ordnungen is a bald, bespectacled, Dunmer vampire with an affection for Dwarven tech. She cannot hear you scream. "For beauty really is nothing but the beginning of terror..."
  • Syldras
    Syldras
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    I mentioned it (shortly) in another thread, although we didn't really come to any conclusion:
    Does anyone have an idea about the name Ithelia, btw? It has a distinct Greek look to it, but I'm not sure if there's a real word related to it. I know that thelima (θέλημα) means "will", but also "assignment" or "errand". Then we have the muse Thaleia, which comes from thallein (θάλλειν), which means "to bloom". Interestingly, at least according to a dictionary, thileia (θηλειά) seems to mean "noose" or also "loop" (for example of a rope or piece of yarn).
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8029555/#Comment_8029555

    Aletheia ("un-concealment") is an interesting idea, too.

    Although I'm not sure if Mora is actually interested in concealing knowledge. He collects it, and the more mysterious and hidden it is (from everyone, including him), the more it sparks his interest.

    I mean, look at this quote, this actually means the opposite to concealing:
    He "weeps cold tears at the plague of ignorance" where knowledge is forsaken out of fear of misuse, and seeks to enlighten all to all mysteries that have ever and will ever exist.
    Source: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Apocrypha,_Apocrypha

    Also it was stated that Ithelia was locked away because her ability to change the world (all of existence) would destroy reality itself - which would not only be unfortunate for mortals and immortals alike, but also for someone who collects knowlege; I mean, what facts could one collect if there are no facts anymore because everything changes constantly?

    (Although I'm not sure if ZOS even had this in mind; probably it's just another end-of-the-world-story. Also: Do they actually know Greek well enough to make a name up like this, or do they even care to show that much effort when it comes to names to have a meaning? I know, we already have names like Almalexia or Iachesis that can be translated or where it's obvious what the influence in the real world was, but there's no real connection between the meaning of the name and the TES character).

    P.S.: I'm not sure if Charon is actually a nice man. If you don't pay him, he ferries you nowhere ;)

    Edited by Syldras on January 23, 2024 1:02AM
    @Syldras | PC | EU
    The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
    Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
    Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
    Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
  • Stille_desAethers
    interesting. i have no idea who writes elder scrolls lore these days. sometimes it seems surprisingly well-informed, but more often redundant and disappointing. i found ithelia and her minion to be a pleasant surprise, this late in the game!

    they could easily afford to hire an imaginative classicist– i'm sure they could pay more than the going university rate. (been there, done that).

    i've always been suspicious of hermaeus mora. he strikes me as a neurotic hoarder with control issues. when i learned that he concealed the existence of another daedric prince– from himself, no less– i lost all confidence in him. he is not a liar, but he has a profoundly selective memory. ithelia is everything he wishes to forget. his childhood trauma, perhaps. i don't know.

    all of the daedric princes have the power to alter the metaphysics of our world, as far as i can tell. when ithelia resurfaces, we can count on a massive reconfiguration of our reality. and for all of this time, herma mora has been trying to keep his triggers at bay.

    charon is very decent if you tip him correctly, like a grubhub driver. just be polite.
    Edited by Stille_desAethers on January 23, 2024 1:36AM
    Aus der Engel Ordnungen is a bald, bespectacled, Dunmer vampire with an affection for Dwarven tech. She cannot hear you scream. "For beauty really is nothing but the beginning of terror..."
  • TaSheen
    TaSheen
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    Interesting take. Thanks for bringing that up!

    [*SIGH* Very long day.... way too many typos]
    Edited by TaSheen on January 23, 2024 2:59AM
    ______________________________________________________

    But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending.

    PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- three accounts, many alts....
  • Syldras
    Syldras
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    they could easily afford to hire an imaginative classicist

    They could! The question is rather whether they see it as neccessary. For Necrom, they surely didn't, if you look at the awful "Latin" they use there. It might be a pet peeve of mine, but in my opinion, if you decide to use Latin (or Classical Greek, or whatever language clearly chosen as an inspiration), and even take time to look up single words in a dictionary, you can also spend the few minutes more to check the right grammar. Or ask someone else who has knowledge about it. It's not difficult, there are plenty of people who could help, and especially today with the internet available, it's easier than ever to find them. So not doing that seems like there was no interest in getting it right.
    i've always been suspicious of hermaeus mora. he strikes me as a neurotic hoarder with control issues.

    He hoards, but he also shares his knowledge.
    when i learned that he concealed the existence of another daedric prince– from himself, no less– i lost all confidence in him. he is not a liar, but he has a profoundly selective memory. ithelia is everything he wishes to forget. his childhood trauma, perhaps. i don't know.

    This was the dialogue of the flashback we saw in Necrom, including the arguments for the banishment of Ithelia (spoiler, in case someone doesn't want to know the reasons):
    Peryite: "You go too far, Mora!"
    Vaermina: "It doesn't matter what you foresee. You can't do this to another Prince! Or to the rest of us, for that matter!"
    Hermaeus Mora: "You have seen the damage Prince Ithelia has already done to the fabric of fate. If left unchecked, reality will unravel."
    Vaermina: "All of us must agree, Mora. And I definitely do not. Memories are sacrosanct, as are the domains of the Princes!"
    Peryite: "You can't punish someone for something they might possibly do."
    Hermaeus Mora: "I must. The risk is too great. I am truly sorry, but there is no alternative. For the sake of reality, you must all … forget!"

    It has something humorous to it, to be honest. So dramatic! "You go too far! - I must, I'm sorry!" :D Yeah, if Daedric Princes talk like that, they probably also are able to have childhood trauma (no matter that they aren't living beings and have no real physical form at all) ;) I actually think that ZOS hasn't made up deeper lore than just what was said in this dialogue. So the usual "oh no, the world will end" threat.

    I don't think Mora has a selective memory, by the way. Deleting this one memory seems to be a clear exception, the only one, because "it's too dangerous!!!!"
    all of the daedric princes have the power to alter the metaphysics of our world, as far as i can tell.

    They are, theoretically, limited by the Coldharbour Compact. In which, of course, Ithelia was not involved.
    charon is very decent if you tip him correctly, like a grubhub driver. just be polite.

    Does he accept Euros, though?

    Edited by Syldras on January 23, 2024 2:55AM
    @Syldras | PC | EU
    The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
    Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
    Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
    Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
  • vsrs_au
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    Just a small request to those posting here: would you mind avoiding Necrom chapter spoilers? Many of us haven't started or haven't finished that chapter.
    PC(Steam) / EU / play from Melbourne, Australia / avg ping 390
  • TaSheen
    TaSheen
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    Syldras wrote: »

    Does he accept Euros, though?

    Doubtful. Beating hearts "untimely ripped" perhaps.

    ______________________________________________________

    But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending.

    PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- three accounts, many alts....
  • Syldras
    Syldras
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    TaSheen wrote: »
    Doubtful. Beating hearts "untimely ripped" perhaps.

    That's a pity, as I have only Euros. Or wait, I also own a few Chinese temple coins. They are not actually currency, though.
    @Syldras | PC | EU
    The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
    Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
    Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
    Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
  • Stille_desAethers
    vsrs_au wrote: »
    Just a small request to those posting here: would you mind avoiding Necrom chapter spoilers? Many of us haven't started or haven't finished that chapter.

    apologies. i haven't used the spoiler hiding function before. do you think i should mention spoiler in the title, or only in select parts of the body?
    Aus der Engel Ordnungen is a bald, bespectacled, Dunmer vampire with an affection for Dwarven tech. She cannot hear you scream. "For beauty really is nothing but the beginning of terror..."
  • TaSheen
    TaSheen
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    Syldras wrote: »
    TaSheen wrote: »
    Doubtful. Beating hearts "untimely ripped" perhaps.

    That's a pity, as I have only Euros. Or wait, I also own a few Chinese temple coins. They are not actually currency, though.

    Oh, Herma Mora would LOVE those! So would I.... could you post a pic of them? What era are they?
    ______________________________________________________

    But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending.

    PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- three accounts, many alts....
  • Syldras
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    I think it might be good to put it in the title, as I believe that most postings will mention details about Necrom in one way or another, and many will probably not use any spoiler warnings at all.
    @Syldras | PC | EU
    The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
    Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
    Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
    Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
  • TaSheen
    TaSheen
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    vsrs_au wrote: »
    Just a small request to those posting here: would you mind avoiding Necrom chapter spoilers? Many of us haven't started or haven't finished that chapter.

    apologies. i haven't used the spoiler hiding function before. do you think i should mention spoiler in the title, or only in select parts of the body?

    I think you should, both in the title and in the post bodies where necessary. There has already been mention that people aren't happy seeing what went before or what's coming next if they haven't yet done Necrom.
    Edited by TaSheen on January 23, 2024 3:22AM
    ______________________________________________________

    But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending.

    PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- three accounts, many alts....
  • Thevampirenight
    Thevampirenight
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    I got to looking at the thing they sent to people, the full picture here.
    900px-ON-misc-2024_Promo_Glass_02.jpg
    As you can see, all the symbols here are blue except the fall colored trees.
    In the center there is what looks like a bluish star/galaxy thing. Its a blue star. That Is important. Also the picture is basically like a clock, as its like twelve things there.
    Ithelia will most likely already be a thing that existed in the lore.
    Now there is a few possibilties, we know she is connected to the aylieds. That was revealed.
    Ithelia could be Mnemo-Li the blue star. or could be the aylied Insect god whos name was lost to history or the name that isn't mentioned in the Exegesis of Merid-Nunda
    Merid-Nunda was of these Sisters, as was Mnemo-Li, as was Xero-Lyg, as was …."
    the ..." could mean that information got erased.

    Mnemo-li is the star that shows up every dragonbreak, that is visable in the sky. During a dragonbreak. She is one of the Magna-ge. One of the best known. She is kind of like a guide type thing, I think close to like what you would think of a deity of the untraveled road. Think of Mnemo-li kind of like the north star basically. her being the blue star matches the symbol at the center. Of the hint we got this year, as well as all the blue in that hint could tie Mnemo-li here.
    Also Mnemo--(Li) Ithe(li)a
    Now if Ithelia is also Mnemo-li the Mnemo-li part wouldn't have gotten erased from history just the fact she was a daedric prince with all the aspects and spheres controled by the god and their daedric prince name.
    Ithelia also has another interesting feature her face tattoo. Looking further into it it really does look like a butterfly or a moth.
    z0xbom6rtdob.png
    Mnemo-li is directly tied to the Elder Scrolls.
    There are theories that Ithelia represents the concept that the prisoner hero basically is. Ancestoral moths and moths are dirrectly associated with the Elder Scrolls. So basically she may have decided to like, go into Oblivion and become a Daedric Prince.
    Its unlikely that Ithelia is Mnemo-li but got to consider the possibility that it could be given the symbiology revealed and the hints we got. The fact that Ithelia has the angel motif like Meridia and also the fact that the blue star thing shown in the hint. is similer to what people would assume of Meridia's symbol. So its not as far fetched to think maybe they are doing a new daedric prince but that prince would already tie to a thing that has been in the lore for a while. Which would be a good plot twist to do. After all Merid-Nunda became Meridia, Trinimac became Malacath. Who is to say that Mnemo-li didn't become Ithelia. That is my theory at least.
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • Syldras
    Syldras
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    Oh, I almost missed this:
    TaSheen wrote: »
    could you post a pic of them? What era are they?

    I have just moved to a different place, so most of my things are still boxed, but I know I have photographed them a few years ago to send the photos to a friend. I'll have a look later if I find the pictures. The coins were supposed to be early 17th century, although I have no proof if that's true. I know there are probably ways to check it, but I haven't bothered so far. They're basically a family heirloom, so they have a worth for me anyway.
    @Syldras | PC | EU
    The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
    Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
    Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
    Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
  • TaSheen
    TaSheen
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    Syldras wrote: »
    Oh, I almost missed this:
    TaSheen wrote: »
    could you post a pic of them? What era are they?

    I have just moved to a different place, so most of my things are still boxed, but I know I have photographed them a few years ago to send the photos to a friend. I'll have a look later if I find the pictures. The coins were supposed to be early 17th century, although I have no proof if that's true. I know there are probably ways to check it, but I haven't bothered so far. They're basically a family heirloom, so they have a worth for me anyway.

    Oh, so cool! No rush, I'd just love to see them.

    That's like my "mother's family chair" - it's over 200 years old, and a couple of years back, daughter and SIL came out from the east coast to pick up the stuff of theirs that's been living in my attic since 1994, and the family stuff - chair, desk from the other side of the family, all my jewelry I haven't been able to wear for 20+ years (allergic to metal all of a sudden back then - it's all 14k, but even 18k isn't good, and who the hell can afford to replace 14k gold with platinum?) and the family silver serving pieces.

    As I start thinking about "life ending".... well, there's still family stuff that needs to go to someone. Husband's family bits.... but - eh, there are issues. Oh well. Once we're dead it certainly won't matter to us what happens!
    ______________________________________________________

    But even in books, the heroes make mistakes, and there isn't always a happy ending.

    PC NA, PC EU (non steam)- three accounts, many alts....
  • Erickson9610
    Erickson9610
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    Syldras wrote: »
    This was the dialogue of the flashback we saw in Necrom, including the arguments for the banishment of Ithelia (spoiler, in case someone doesn't want to know the reasons):
    Peryite: "You go too far, Mora!"
    Vaermina: "It doesn't matter what you foresee. You can't do this to another Prince! Or to the rest of us, for that matter!"
    Hermaeus Mora: "You have seen the damage Prince Ithelia has already done to the fabric of fate. If left unchecked, reality will unravel."
    Vaermina: "All of us must agree, Mora. And I definitely do not. Memories are sacrosanct, as are the domains of the Princes!"
    Peryite: "You can't punish someone for something they might possibly do."
    Hermaeus Mora: "I must. The risk is too great. I am truly sorry, but there is no alternative. For the sake of reality, you must all … forget!"

    This dialogue leads me to believe that Ithelia will be here to stay. Hermaeus Mora might have character development based around what Peryite says here.
  • Stille_desAethers
    @Thevampirenight all very interesting. she certainly does have meridian qualities. i am not well versed in the lore, but the moth-priesthood and ayleid connection sound very plausible. the luminescent blue tattoos seem to evoke those, don't they.

    mnemo, of course, is also a greek prefix, denoting memory. un-forgetting, un-obliviating, once again...

    i still can't shake the impression that herma mora is jealous and selective of the knowledge he collects. a librarian. i wonder how much else he has locked away– in special collections, air-tight chambers, or even burned. would it be fair to say he is a cultivator of knowledge, and ithelia is its source? there almost seems to be a gender dynamic.

    but all of that is much too vague. i appreciate your fine knowledge of the lore.
    Edited by Stille_desAethers on January 23, 2024 4:58AM
    Aus der Engel Ordnungen is a bald, bespectacled, Dunmer vampire with an affection for Dwarven tech. She cannot hear you scream. "For beauty really is nothing but the beginning of terror..."
  • AVaelham
    AVaelham
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    I got to looking at the thing they sent to people, the full picture here.
    900px-ON-misc-2024_Promo_Glass_02.jpg
    As you can see, all the symbols here are blue except the fall colored trees.
    In the center there is what looks like a bluish star/galaxy thing. Its a blue star. That Is important. Also the picture is basically like a clock, as its like twelve things there.
    Ithelia will most likely already be a thing that existed in the lore.
    Now there is a few possibilties, we know she is connected to the aylieds. That was revealed.
    Ithelia could be Mnemo-Li the blue star. or could be the aylied Insect god whos name was lost to history or the name that isn't mentioned in the Exegesis of Merid-Nunda
    Merid-Nunda was of these Sisters, as was Mnemo-Li, as was Xero-Lyg, as was …."
    the ..." could mean that information got erased.

    Mnemo-li is the star that shows up every dragonbreak, that is visable in the sky. During a dragonbreak. She is one of the Magna-ge. One of the best known. She is kind of like a guide type thing, I think close to like what you would think of a deity of the untraveled road. Think of Mnemo-li kind of like the north star basically. her being the blue star matches the symbol at the center. Of the hint we got this year, as well as all the blue in that hint could tie Mnemo-li here.
    Also Mnemo--(Li) Ithe(li)a
    Now if Ithelia is also Mnemo-li the Mnemo-li part wouldn't have gotten erased from history just the fact she was a daedric prince with all the aspects and spheres controled by the god and their daedric prince name.
    Ithelia also has another interesting feature her face tattoo. Looking further into it it really does look like a butterfly or a moth.
    z0xbom6rtdob.png
    Mnemo-li is directly tied to the Elder Scrolls.
    There are theories that Ithelia represents the concept that the prisoner hero basically is. Ancestoral moths and moths are dirrectly associated with the Elder Scrolls. So basically she may have decided to like, go into Oblivion and become a Daedric Prince.
    Its unlikely that Ithelia is Mnemo-li but got to consider the possibility that it could be given the symbiology revealed and the hints we got. The fact that Ithelia has the angel motif like Meridia and also the fact that the blue star thing shown in the hint. is similer to what people would assume of Meridia's symbol. So its not as far fetched to think maybe they are doing a new daedric prince but that prince would already tie to a thing that has been in the lore for a while. Which would be a good plot twist to do. After all Merid-Nunda became Meridia, Trinimac became Malacath. Who is to say that Mnemo-li didn't become Ithelia. That is my theory at least.

    Very interesting theory. I had a feeling Ithelia might be another Magna-Ge like Meridia based on her look.
  • MerguezMan
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    Ithelia has been wiped from all memories.
    Her realm cannot be accessed by her own dremoras - which have been spread as "clanless" in other realms.
    We can assume she has no realm to protect or fuel by magic, which can be considered a strategic advantage over other daedric princes.
    Ithelia did not take part in the Daedric pact of Sotha Sil - or was erased from it, so nothing prevents her to impact heavily on Tamriel while most other princes are held back.
    From Necrom chapter's dialog, I suspect Ithelia has means of "rewriting" history, somewhat similar to Vivec rewrote his own past (the part of the story where he has always been a god), but on a much larger scale (which would explain Dawnwood).
  • Thevampirenight
    Thevampirenight
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    @Thevampirenight all very interesting. she certainly does have meridian qualities. i am not well versed in the lore, but the moth-priesthood and ayleid connection sound very plausible. the luminescent blue tattoos seem to evoke those, don't they.

    mnemo, of course, is also a greek prefix, denoting memory. un-forgetting, un-obliviating, once again...

    i still can't shake the impression that herma mora is jealous and selective of the knowledge he collects. a librarian. i wonder how much else he has locked away– in special collections, air-tight chambers, or even burned. would it be fair to say he is a cultivator of knowledge, and ithelia is its source? there almost seems to be a gender dynamic.

    but all of that is much too vague. i appreciate your fine knowledge of the lore.

    Well I'm well versed in the lore, I've done
    contributor work for the UESP. I'm actually the one who wrote the lore pages for Verandis Ravenwatch, Wylon Montclair, Faolchu, Bazrag gro-Fharun, those were all lore pages I wrote for the UESP and personally done by me. So not only do I know a lot of lore I've written lore pages for the UESP. i also revamped the vampire page for the UESP with aid from others that helped on of course, I also added ESO's blackreach lore info to the blackreach lore page.

    Ithelia is most certainly a Magna-Ge, she has to be, she is connected the Ayleids going by the reveal and info. So that will play a big part in this year. Will be interesting though.
    Edited by Thevampirenight on January 23, 2024 8:26AM
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • Faulgor
    Faulgor
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    The connection to the Magna-Ge certainly makes the most sense, although she doesn't have to be the Blue Star (plenty of stars in the sky). That might be challenging to explain, given that Mnemo-Li is obscure but hardly forgotten.

    Being a daughter of Magnus would also give her the motivation to influence his creation in ways that could upset the other Princes. Plus, the leap from an architect to someone who controls fate / has the blueprints to reality so to speak isn't that far.

    Do we have a consenus what that symbol between Skingrad and Hermaeus Mora's eyeball represents? It still seems to fit Mephala's crown the best imo, and she is the Prince of Secrets, so her involvement doesn't seem too far-fatched. But I can't see a direct connection to Ithelia as of now.
    Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
    Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.
  • Thevampirenight
    Thevampirenight
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    Faulgor wrote: »
    The connection to the Magna-Ge certainly makes the most sense, although she doesn't have to be the Blue Star (plenty of stars in the sky). That might be challenging to explain, given that Mnemo-Li is obscure but hardly forgotten.

    Being a daughter of Magnus would also give her the motivation to influence his creation in ways that could upset the other Princes. Plus, the leap from an architect to someone who controls fate / has the blueprints to reality so to speak isn't that far.

    Do we have a consenus what that symbol between Skingrad and Hermaeus Mora's eyeball represents? It still seems to fit Mephala's crown the best imo, and she is the Prince of Secrets, so her involvement doesn't seem too far-fatched. But I can't see a direct connection to Ithelia as of now.

    Yeah ithelia isn't the bluestar, it was just a theory, a wild guess its not really what is happening here.
    As for the crown, many think its tied to Mephala but it kind of looks like a dark seducers helmet to me. Its very likely the crown of mephela, who is connected to hermaous mora.
    Edited by Thevampirenight on January 23, 2024 10:21AM
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • Syldras
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    The theory of her having a connection to the Magna-Ge is interesting, but plausibility in lore is only one factor, unfortunately. Another big one is probability when it comes to the very real-world aspect of what ZOS is able to write.

    It may be a prejudice, but the last few years weren't actually convincing, stories were rather blatantly shallow instead of complicated and deep, characters were mere stereotypes, and they even got some of their recurrent characters wrong - characters they themselves had invented just a few years ago. The worst cases were one event dialogue with Naryu, where the player character asks her things s/he cannot know of because they were never part of the game (it were references to a backstory that's only in a book that was part of the Morrowind chapter physical special edition and partially to the game preview trailer, the player character learns nothing about this in game, though), and of course characters like Jakarn and even Eveli, who got much dumber and outright annoying when they returned. Oh, and then those logic mistakes like calling the card game Tales Of Tribute both brand new and extremely old with a long tradition - in the very chapter it was introduced. This reduces my trust in them to correctly built on existing, more complex lore immensely.

    Yes, they said that they actually had the TES people from Bethesda involved this time, which gives me a bit of hope - if it's more than just getting an okay in the end about whether they are allowed to publish their story like this or not.

    Edited by Syldras on January 23, 2024 1:13PM
    @Syldras | PC | EU
    The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
    Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
    Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
    Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
  • ADarklore
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    I'm just hoping she doesn't turn out to actually be a villain. The fact she lost her memories, I'm hoping that in the end, she turns out to be more 'good' than 'evil'. I mean, we're going to help her recover her memories, which could be good, or very, very bad. Was she an actual threat, or did HM simply feel she 'could become one' and decided to get rid of her?

    It would be nice if, in the end, she decided to forgo her memories and simply live as a mortal- not wanting to ever become a threat to Tamriel. Wishful thinking. But I'm tired of all the neutral endings and would be nice to have a happy one involving a Daedric prince for a change.
    CP: 1880 ** ESO+ Gold Road ** ~~ Stamina Arcanist ~~ Magicka Warden ~~ Magicka Templar ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
  • Syldras
    Syldras
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    ADarklore wrote: »
    Was she an actual threat, or did HM simply feel she 'could become one' and decided to get rid of her?

    If she really has the ability to change all of reality on a whim, immediately, constantly, this would lead to a huge catastrophe. The only question I see is whether banishment or transformation of some kind would be the better solution, with transformation being the "happier" ending.
    @Syldras | PC | EU
    The forceful expression of will gives true honor to the Ancestors.
    Sarayn Andrethi, Telvanni mage (Main)
    Darvasa Andrethi, his "I'm NOT a Necromancer!" sister
    Malacar Sunavarlas, Altmer Ayleid vampire
  • LunaFlora
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    MerguezMan wrote: »
    Ithelia has been wiped from all memories.
    Her realm cannot be accessed by her own dremoras - which have been spread as "clanless" in other realms.
    We can assume she has no realm to protect or fuel by magic, which can be considered a strategic advantage over other daedric princes.
    Ithelia did not take part in the Daedric pact of Sotha Sil - or was erased from it, so nothing prevents her to impact heavily on Tamriel while most other princes are held back.
    From Necrom chapter's dialog, I suspect Ithelia has means of "rewriting" history, somewhat similar to Vivec rewrote his own past (the part of the story where he has always been a god), but on a much larger scale (which would explain Dawnwood).

    she does have a realm.
    it is Mirrormoor.

    bf0a2ih4dpej.jpg
    tvta9r018f04.jpg
    the glassy daedra are from her.
    miaow! i'm Luna ( she/her ).

    🌸*throws cherry blossom on you*🌸
    "Eagles advance, traveler! And may the Green watch and keep you."
    🦬🦌🐰
    PlayStation and PC EU.
    LunaLolaBlossom on psn.
    LunaFloraBlossom on pc.
  • Thevampirenight
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    LunaFlora wrote: »
    MerguezMan wrote: »
    Ithelia has been wiped from all memories.
    Her realm cannot be accessed by her own dremoras - which have been spread as "clanless" in other realms.
    We can assume she has no realm to protect or fuel by magic, which can be considered a strategic advantage over other daedric princes.
    Ithelia did not take part in the Daedric pact of Sotha Sil - or was erased from it, so nothing prevents her to impact heavily on Tamriel while most other princes are held back.
    From Necrom chapter's dialog, I suspect Ithelia has means of "rewriting" history, somewhat similar to Vivec rewrote his own past (the part of the story where he has always been a god), but on a much larger scale (which would explain Dawnwood).

    she does have a realm.
    it is Mirrormoor.

    bf0a2ih4dpej.jpg
    tvta9r018f04.jpg
    the glassy daedra are from her.

    I legit hope they ain't the only ones but we will get angelic daedra with wings to go along with those two.
    PC NA
    Please add Fangs to Vampires.
  • LunaFlora
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    LunaFlora wrote: »
    MerguezMan wrote: »
    Ithelia has been wiped from all memories.
    Her realm cannot be accessed by her own dremoras - which have been spread as "clanless" in other realms.
    We can assume she has no realm to protect or fuel by magic, which can be considered a strategic advantage over other daedric princes.
    Ithelia did not take part in the Daedric pact of Sotha Sil - or was erased from it, so nothing prevents her to impact heavily on Tamriel while most other princes are held back.
    From Necrom chapter's dialog, I suspect Ithelia has means of "rewriting" history, somewhat similar to Vivec rewrote his own past (the part of the story where he has always been a god), but on a much larger scale (which would explain Dawnwood).

    she does have a realm.
    it is Mirrormoor.

    bf0a2ih4dpej.jpg
    tvta9r018f04.jpg
    the glassy daedra are from her.

    I legit hope they ain't the only ones but we will get angelic daedra with wings to go along with those two.

    Tho'at had a dragon form so maybe we'll see dragons too.
    angelic daedra also sound cool though
    miaow! i'm Luna ( she/her ).

    🌸*throws cherry blossom on you*🌸
    "Eagles advance, traveler! And may the Green watch and keep you."
    🦬🦌🐰
    PlayStation and PC EU.
    LunaLolaBlossom on psn.
    LunaFloraBlossom on pc.
  • colossalvoids
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    Every year I'm reading such threads expecting rich stories, deep concepts and obscure lore just to be reminded "it's ESO park baby!" on release and just go watch some third party deep lore dives, if tes related even.

    Hope Beth involvement wasn't just an approval stamp. Not sure if any competent tes writers are left with Kuhlmann's departure.
  • Faulgor
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    Every year I'm reading such threads expecting rich stories, deep concepts and obscure lore just to be reminded "it's ESO park baby!" on release and just go watch some third party deep lore dives, if tes related even.

    Hope Beth involvement wasn't just an approval stamp. Not sure if any competent tes writers are left with Kuhlmann's departure.

    Yeah, after suffering through Starfield, we are reaching the point where I prefer ZOS over BGS' writing ...
    Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
    Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.
  • Kalle_Demos
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    Syldras wrote: »
    This was the dialogue of the flashback we saw in Necrom, including the arguments for the banishment of Ithelia (spoiler, in case someone doesn't want to know the reasons):
    Peryite: "You go too far, Mora!"
    Vaermina: "It doesn't matter what you foresee. You can't do this to another Prince! Or to the rest of us, for that matter!"
    Hermaeus Mora: "You have seen the damage Prince Ithelia has already done to the fabric of fate. If left unchecked, reality will unravel."
    Vaermina: "All of us must agree, Mora. And I definitely do not. Memories are sacrosanct, as are the domains of the Princes!"
    Peryite: "You can't punish someone for something they might possibly do."
    Hermaeus Mora: "I must. The risk is too great. I am truly sorry, but there is no alternative. For the sake of reality, you must all … forget!"

    This dialogue leads me to believe that Ithelia will be here to stay. Hermaeus Mora might have character development based around what Peryite says here.

    Yes, Ithelia isn't going anywhere. Not forever atleast. As far as lore goes and her absence in titles that take place after ESO's setting, it could be that the power base similar to what other Princes have on Nirn takes time to grow and she's been in the shadows. Or that she simply has no interest in Nirn and wants nothing to do with her problematic peers.
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