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Some suggestions for adjusting/removing Verse and Vision

Lykeion
Lykeion
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This thread contains my own thoughts and desired adjustments to a portion of Verse and Vision in the archive. I'll give the perks I've mentioned and explain the reasoning. Since it's not always possible to take screenshots of the Verse and Vision needed in-game, I'm quoting the sheet found at the vate/vma discord server, whose credit goes to Lucht and Don.

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Archival Assault:
Problem: Unlike the Weapon Skill Line (enhanced by Archival Weaponry) and the Class Skill Line (enhanced by Class Embodiment), the Assualt skill line lacks the potential to be the bulk of the player's damage. It contains only two damage skills, Caltrops and Magicka Detonation. One is an aoe dot and the other is direct damage with a long delay. Although it has the highest value compared to other damage-boosting Verse, its potential is too limited.
Suggestion: Perhaps increasing the value of this Verse dramatically would provide some interesting play style, if not modifying its benefit object. If you slot 6 weapon skills, they all receive a 750% boost under the influence of Archival Weaponry. Then for Assault skills where you can only slot two, its boost shouldn't be less than this.

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Well-Trained Command:
Problem: This is a useful Vision that works well on Warden and Sorc. The problem is that not every class has a class pet, and those that don't are unlikely to have a pet set in their archive builds. For this group of players, each occurrence of this Vision takes away access to another useful offensive vision
Suggestion: Make this Vision only appear when a player uses a class that has in-class pets, or the player is using a pet set

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Full Coffers & Lessons Learned:
Problem: Adding perks that increase gold gains is a common design in roguelike games, such as Hades and Issac, etc. The problem is that in Hades (or any other roguelike game), gold can be efficiently converted into resources for your combats. The gold you acquire in a single run can be traded in for many sorts of powerful boosts in the store for you. But that's not how it works in Archives. The extra gold or experience you gain while running an archive provides you with almost no additional gains. The things you can buy from archive merchants while running are no different than when you're not running. You can hoard hundreds of Mystery Verses before you even enter the Archives, as long as you have enough currency. These two are visions that don't help you in your fights in the archives, yet they take up other useful Vision refresh opportunities. And I don't think any player would consider the archives to be an efficient place to farm gold or exp either
Suggestion: Remove both Visions. Turn them into purchasable consumables similar to Mystery Verse for those who want them.


Edited for format
Edited by Lykeion on December 19, 2023 6:28PM
  • Necrotech_Master
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    archival assault and archival worldliness i think both need a bit more boost than what they give, as both affect fairly few skills

    assault as you mentioned is only 2 skills

    worldliness only affects the soul magic line if you are a human, but it can also benefit vampire/ww skills which makes it slightly better (though not any better than assault if you are a human)

    the pet one actually affects far more than what you mention, it affects necromancer pets (archer/mage and blastbones) and all proc pets (maw of infernal, mad tinkerer, etc) that have an actual summon instead of being just a "visual" for the proc

    i also agree that the gold and xp visions are absolutely useless
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
  • Dagoth_Rac
    Dagoth_Rac
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    Full Coffers and Lessons Learned should be dropped and a Vision called Archival Accumulator created that is: "Your gold, XP, and Archival Fortune gains are increased by 31%."

  • Necrotech_Master
    Necrotech_Master
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    also whats funny is when i was running the archive last night, the +xp one is not +31%, its +12%, but the gold one is +31%
    plays PC/NA
    handle @Necrotech_Master
    active player since april 2014
  • CGPsaint
    CGPsaint
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    It's also incredibly frustrating to constantly get stamina/martial damage Visions over and over again while playing a Magicka based character. I feel like if you don't have at least 1 Stamina or 1 Magicka skill slotted, then the corresponding Visions should have a lower drop chance. Arc 4 and beyond are already a slog, but it gets much worse when you aren't getting decent Visions to keep up with the pace of the added health pools.
    "Some enjoy bringing grief to others. They remind M'aiq of mudcrabs—horrible creatures, with no redeeming qualities."
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