Battlegrounds - Warden Healers

Bashev

Warden polar winds should be a self heal only.

There is no way to kill such build more than once in a DM battleground where the teams are stacked.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler Brian can you share some ideas how to destroy such monster? Shall I summon a trial group to help me?

Edit:



Normal Polar wind tip without any healing increased. Best burst heal + best hot in the game combined in radius of 12m, so you do not have to aim it.

merpins

PVP: Warden too strong, pls nerf.
PVE: Warden too weak, pls buff.

both are valid. this is a problem, Zos.

SkaraMinoc

Only 4 million healing? Wardens are weak.

gariondavey

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Only 4 million healing? Wardens are weak.

Shoddy has 6.7m multiple times with his cmx at 10-11m including his self heals. Warden is better than sorc, no question about it. Your sorc healer is very strong though.

SkaraMinoc

gariondavey wrote: »

Shoddy has 6.7m multiple times with his cmx at 10-11m including his self heals. Warden is better than sorc, no question about it. Your sorc healer is very strong though.

He can't play without a premade and group buffs so doesn't count.

Bashev

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

Only 4 million healing? Wardens are weak.

The healing output depends on the damage of the other team. But you got my point. Such monster healer with 3 brawlers cannot be stopped. Maybe you can manage to kill it once if you have some negate but for that you need perfect conditions and a one specific class to counter it.

Ren_TheRedFox

@Bashev I disagree on the "only self-healing part". The reason is because every class has a burst heal that can heal other players .... even dks with obsidian shard ... and yes, I count it as a burst heal because it's extremely powerful and heals 2 people at the same time for a crazy amount.

However, I totally agree that it needs a change. Like any other burst heal, it should scale off your magicka simply to make tanky HP builds "useless". Wardens are great healers and unfortunately a lot of people who play a warden have simply forgotten how strong the class is even without polar wind .... It is the strongest healing class along with Templar because it provides you with nice HoTs, burst heals and AoE heals.

Ren_TheRedFox

@SkaraMinoc yes sorceres are great healers too but compared to wardens and templars they don't have a great group utility while wardens give you minor thoughness, great AoE burst and HoT heals and an awesome cheap healing ultimate. Templars give away minor spells, purges and great AOe burst and HoT heals and both classes don't rely on one skill like the matriarch ...
Don't get me wrong, I love sorc heals, but they are definitely not the strongest unless you have a crazy 1 bar crit heal build. Then the whole thing looks a bit different, but even then... keeping the matriarch alive is a pain.

And one more small note about the screenshot ... yes, you might have the biggest healing output, but that has two meanings in this BG ...

1) Your group is built pretty glass canon and deals a lot of damage.
2) Your group relies heavily on a healer to stay alive, which isn't so great from an overall perspective.

However, I congratulate you on your healing output ... you don't see many players capable of healing that much, other than on the polar wind bot (note: I'm not talking about actual warden healers that are build for a better overall healing).
There are very few players left who can heal on classes other than the warden and heal that much

Bashev

There are plenty of healing skills in the green tree. The winter tree is for tanking and that skill should be only self heal. Even as a self heal it is super strong. But at least you can ignore the player then while now it keeps the group alive.

Ren_TheRedFox

"Wrap yourself in winter winds and instantly heal yourself for 4958 Health and an additional 1229 Health every 2 seconds for 10 seconds. Also heal another ally for 2479 health and 615 health every 2 seconds for 10 seconds."

It would definitely be better that way because it would be the equivalent version of "Breath of Life" and "Breath of Life" is a strong burst heal (I prefer Honor the Dead more though because it gives you resources back, but that's a personal preference of course.

Bashev

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

"Wrap yourself in winter winds and instantly heal yourself for 4958 Health and an additional 1229 Health every 2 seconds for 10 seconds. Also heal another ally for 2479 health and 615 health every 2 seconds for 10 seconds."

It would definitely be better that way because it would be the equivalent version of "Breath of Life" and "Breath of Life" is a strong burst heal (I prefer Honor the Dead more though because it gives you resources back, but that's a personal preference of course.

I still dont understand why a tank should heal others? On top of that why the skill is a burst heal plus very good HoT. The other similar self heal is Dragon blood but in PvP even after the buff (adding some 5s HoT) is mediocre.

SkaraMinoc

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@SkaraMinoc yes sorceres are great healers too but compared to wardens and templars... snip

For uncoordinated Solo BGs, Sorc is better due to 28m 360 degree burst heal.

For coordinated BGs including premades, Warden/Templar/Necro are the obvious choices.

Ren_TheRedFox

@Bashev oh yeah, a tank shouldn't heal and tank at the same time... that's why I left out the "Scales off Max Health" part because you're right.... a tank should not heal other players too.

In its current state, it heals 2 targets and gives you a HoT on top of that.
Even the Sorc pet heals 2 people, but it's only a burst heal and needs to be on both bars to work unless you're on a one bar build (not to mention the fact that the pet dies 50% of the time, but there are other posts about that anyway).
Polar wind has the biggest burst healing benefit in-game because it's also a HoT... to make it comparable to all other burst heals that affect other players, you actually need to change 3 things:

1) make it scale off your Max Magicka
2) get rid of the HoT
3) the second target gets a lower heal.

Only then would the skill be "fair", but we all know they won't change it .... unfortunately ....

Ren_TheRedFox

I made a post about polar wind myself some time ago, but some people like it the way it is... the funny thing is that most of them are polar wind bots themselves, and of course you have to protect something that is very important to you with everything you have😂.

Bashev

I see that you want to adjust the skill but why make it scale with magicka, this will nerf tanks. Just make it self heal as the other similar self heals there, maybe tone down the hot.

If you need to buff some magicka heals for wardens, take a look in the green tree. It is designed for healers so buffs for magicka heals should go there.

Bashev

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

I made a post about polar wind myself some time ago, but some people like it the way it is... the funny thing is that most of them are polar wind bots themselves, and of course you have to protect something that is very important to you with everything you have😂.

I think that only in BGs the skills really shine so much, in IC if I meet a duo with such heal bot I can just run away. If they are 3 or more it is highly likely to kill me anyway most of the time if they are good players so it does not matter. In Cyro you have large scale and 1 target is not enough. On top of that you have way more damage there because more people are involved.

But in BGs, you cannot run away you have to fight back.

gariondavey

SkaraMinoc wrote: »

gariondavey wrote: »

Shoddy has 6.7m multiple times with his cmx at 10-11m including his self heals. Warden is better than sorc, no question about it. Your sorc healer is very strong though.

He can't play without a premade and group buffs so doesn't count.

I don't think I've seen a more inaccurate statement on the forums.

Ren_TheRedFox

@Bashev tanks have healers in their teams ....it's the healer's job to heal everyone in the group and even if the skill scales off your magicka the tank will still be able to heal themselves without any issues ...and about cyro ... if you have 2 or 3 wardens with more than 40k hp good luck fighting them cause they will heal each other to 100% with 2 polar winds

buzzclops

Polar wind is the most broken spell in the game when it comes to bgs. It shouldnt heal 2 targets. Its possible to beat them when you have very high pressure and coordination with another player or two. But when its pugs or solo q its absolutely disgusting and overtuned. The other spells that can heal two targets like that have hard conditions. Necro heal comes mind and requires corpses.

Im not for nerfing the healing but just reducing it to one target with smart targeting would solve most of the issues i have with that spell. Even maybe split the healing between the two targets if it stays aoeish. This way solo players in cyro keep the potency.

WreckfulAbandon

Sure nerf cringe matriarch along with polar wind. Then give some of that power budget to non pet sorc skills. Although sorc has absolutely no reason to be nerfed unless there are also "adjustments" made to certain other classes. DK as far as I'm concerned deserves to be nerfed into irrelevance (again) for at least a few years.

maxjapank

lol @ abusing the critical heal medals in battlegrounds.

Ren_TheRedFox

@WreckfulAbandon lol, to nerf the matriarch you first have to get rid of the double bar and the pet dying instantly, because in its current state with 2 healing targets it's ok considering the circumstances.

Bashev

maxjapank wrote: »

lol @ abusing the critical heal medals in battlegrounds.

Actually you dont need a crit to get 7.5k heal for 100 points. 50k warden heal for 15k, which is around 7k in PvP. When you add major mending and some passive that increase healing and you are over that number.

Jierdanit

Bashev wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

lol @ abusing the critical heal medals in battlegrounds.

Actually you dont need a crit to get 7.5k heal for 100 points. 50k warden heal for 15k, which is around 7k in PvP. When you add major mending and some passive that increase healing and you are over that number.

The 7.5k heal medal is called Critical Heal. I think that is what they meant.

Bashev

Jierdanit wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

lol @ abusing the critical heal medals in battlegrounds.

Actually you dont need a crit to get 7.5k heal for 100 points. 50k warden heal for 15k, which is around 7k in PvP. When you add major mending and some passive that increase healing and you are over that number.

The 7.5k heal medal is called Critical Heal. I think that is what they meant.

Fair point. I forgot what was the name. Maybe according to devs for so big heal it should be a crit They forgot that Warden exists.

SkaraMinoc

Bashev wrote: »

Jierdanit wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

lol @ abusing the critical heal medals in battlegrounds.

Actually you dont need a crit to get 7.5k heal for 100 points. 50k warden heal for 15k, which is around 7k in PvP. When you add major mending and some passive that increase healing and you are over that number.

The 7.5k heal medal is called Critical Heal. I think that is what they meant.

Fair point. I forgot what was the name. Maybe according to devs for so big heal it should be a crit They forgot that Warden exists.

Players accusing me of "abusing" the Critical Heal badge when my bird heals for 9k non-crit without Major Mending.



It's not my fault the Critical Heal badge gives +100 points for every 7500 heal. The badge is outdated.

Ren_TheRedFox

well @SkaraMinoc you know it doesn't matter if you crit heal or not .... there are wardens with 60k hp in BGs spamming polar wind .... 9k matriarch heals are nothing compared to that lovely 20k polar wind xD not gonna lie the current state of that polar wind is just sad ... just sad xD

Miracle19

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

well @SkaraMinoc you know it doesn't matter if you crit heal or not .... there are wardens with 60k hp in BGs spamming polar wind .... 9k matriarch heals are nothing compared to that lovely 20k polar wind xD not gonna lie the current state of that polar wind is just sad ... just sad xD

There’s no warden in eso doing that.

SkaraMinoc

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

well @SkaraMinoc you know it doesn't matter if you crit heal or not .... there are wardens with 60k hp in BGs spamming polar wind .... 9k matriarch heals are nothing compared to that lovely 20k polar wind xD not gonna lie the current state of that polar wind is just sad ... just sad xD

Close enough?

Also, Sorc has no problem healing teammates 50m apart but the Warden panics and heals nothing but air.

huskandhunger

🧙‍♂️🪄✨✨ (heals)

Ren_TheRedFox

@Miracle19 you know, I would have believed you if I hadn't been in a few battlegrounds fighting a warden with 62k hp for the past few days😂. And I seriously not kidding ... they had 62k hp and they were probably pressing that polar wind button harder than anything else😂 .... Kinda feel sorry for the keyboard at this point😂