PvP Balance

Overamera

It doesn't exist. Bye

OsUfi

I have never played any MMORPG with a PvE mix where PvP was perfectly balanced.

I do think ESO does a good job making sure every class can compete in some way though. I say this as a necro-main, the class often considered bottom of the pack for PvP.

Mr_Jord_Joe

Proc arena sets makes all the job actually... No player skill, just arena sets...

JanTanhide

Never going to happen. It's not possible in this game. Throw in a hundred gear sets and all the races, difference in CP and so on and it's just not possible.

No such thing as balance in PVP.

Warhawke_80

I don't know about balance but...


I just always thought PVP in a TES game especially wanting PVP to originally be the end game was a weird/bad decision...I think if the devs had it to do differently it would have been much more minior like WoW's or SWTOR's PVP...if they wanted a PVP that jibed with the spirit of TES they should have added PVP arena's with a rank system much like TES 1 where you gain one rank for every three fights you win.

If they provided the correct rewards I would think we would have a much happier PVP community.

WinterHeart626

Balanced PvP.
Well, let’s “balance it”.
Everyone gets a stick, a bin lid, and a trash bag.
(Stick= sword, bin lid= shield, trash bag- armour).

Now we have racial and classes, I’m disregarding these.

10/10 someone will scream that the stick is overpowered and broken at some point.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it deals with PvP balance.

Thank you for your understanding

AstroST

Does anyone use master dw/vate/marseelook in PvE?

If no please nerf them to the groound.
That would be a start.

Kaysha

AstroST wrote: »

Does anyone use master dw/vate/marseelook in PvE?

If no please nerf them to the groound.
That would be a start.

Draugrkin and dragon's appetite are the real offenders

vermanderdieterb16_ESO

[snip] damage mitigation seems way too OP. Like i should be doing lots of damage with my build but most players seem to just ignore all my damage. ive got a good gearset and stats + procs yet most enemies in PVP seem like they dont take any damage. yet if they turn around and attack me i'm dead in like 2 seconds ...
ive given this game an other chance after a couple of years not playing and im sorry to say but i'm out. [snip]

[edited for bashing]

Udrath

Kinda funny how pvp was pretty good in the past, before Blackwood and greymoore. Lots of unique sets and different playstyles. There were so many sets back then that provided unique builds that had pros and cons.

The only thing they had to do, and what everyone wanted was to fix was the lag.

Instead they just stalled by making annoying gameplay and set changes till they could fix the lag. Free base damage and recovery, easy snare immunity to everyone, and burst heals. Hybrid scaling kinda made things worse for pvp too imo and they should really considering going back to stamina, magicka, health focus in terms of builds.

Big pvp problems come from them nerfing one thing and allows another to thrive, like when they nerfed defile and health recovery became OP. Then the changes to all sets to use minor/major buffs/debuffs instead of unique also gutted a bunch of sets, while making all these same buffs/debuffs incredibly available to every class (except necromancer lol) so those sets became practically irrelevant.

IZZEFlameLash

There's no balance, indeed. There's something close to it but not really. If we were to follow what someone here suggested in this thread, a.k.a nerfing things to the ground, then there will be voices that will say 'but but tank meta and DoT too weak and irrelevant compared to burst'. If resistances or any forms of defense were nerfed, then 'but but damage too high'.

Maybe this is all due to ZOS tendency to sledgehammer everything when it comes to buffs and nerfs. Who knows.

BetweenMidgets

Okay byeeeeee

DUTCH_REAPER

Pvp is so broken with rampant strong heals and tanky damagers.

gariondavey

If they removed (in pvp) the 1k weapon and spell damage that we got for free with cp rework, as well as the free 3k hp we got and 4k mag + stam, you'd see a big drop off in proc builds, high hp builds, and super tanky targets.

ESO_CenturionPlayer

PvP is bland and repetitive.

Devs have decided no more class balances in the near future and said as much.

Niche sets and being able to get skilled at using them is the only equalizer. That and occasional overpowered items that are hidden behind a paywall (i.e., new antiquities) to generate money for the company.

It’s the same copy and paste ZOS has done for a few years now.

xFocused

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

Pvp is so broken with rampant strong heals and tanky damagers.

Tank meta is insane right now. I can't even be mad about it, it's just so laughable to watch players drop to 5% health and still survive while being wailed on, lol. Arcanists are the best example of this, they can take high amounts of damage and survive it all

Sleep724

Nerfing Undeath would be a great start.

DrNukenstein

+1 for nerfing base stats in battle spirit

+1 for cast times on burst heals, with burst heals providing important buffs

+1 for making undeath a constant 15% reduction under 50% health

+1 for hard capping armor at 33k

edward_frigidhands

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

There's no balance, indeed. There's something close to it but not really. If we were to follow what someone here suggested in this thread, a.k.a nerfing things to the ground, then there will be voices that will say 'but but tank meta and DoT too weak and irrelevant compared to burst'. If resistances or any forms of defense were nerfed, then 'but but damage too high'.

Maybe this is all due to ZOS tendency to sledgehammer everything when it comes to buffs and nerfs. Who knows.

The handful of people posting and upvoting each other here won't understand how relevant and on-point this post is.

edward_frigidhands

DrNukenstein wrote: »

+1 for nerfing base stats in battle spirit

+1 for hard capping armor at 33k

The armor cap is already 33k at 50% DR.

Base stats need to be uniform across both PvP and PvE.

Adjusting stats differently for PvP and further dividing how PvP and PvE function is bad game design and will lead to 2 isolated games that continue to bend away from each other and are difficult to keep up with balancing.

ZOS does not have the resources to do this and neither should they because the results are not going to be conducive to having a complete connected game that people want to play.

If there is an issue, the best way to address it is through introduction of new sets or balancing of the ones that exist. The solutions need to be targeted rather than blanket bandage fixes that break more than they fix.

ESO_CenturionPlayer

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

IZZEFlameLash wrote: »

There's no balance, indeed. There's something close to it but not really. If we were to follow what someone here suggested in this thread, a.k.a nerfing things to the ground, then there will be voices that will say 'but but tank meta and DoT too weak and irrelevant compared to burst'. If resistances or any forms of defense were nerfed, then 'but but damage too high'.

Maybe this is all due to ZOS tendency to sledgehammer everything when it comes to buffs and nerfs. Who knows.

wThe handful of people posting and upvoting each other here won't understand how relevant and on-point this post is.

imbalance makes money for the company. forcing players to constantly change to stay relevant.

a balanced PvP makes no money for them, but makes life better for us.

being that they are a company whose main goal is the former i don’t think it matters. i stopped waiting for the needed “balance”changes many moons ago.

CameraBeardThePirate

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

+1 for nerfing base stats in battle spirit

+1 for hard capping armor at 33k

The armor cap is already 33k at 50% DR.

Base stats need to be uniform across both PvP and PvE.

Adjusting stats differently for PvP and further dividing how PvP and PvE function is bad game design and will lead to 2 isolated games that continue to bend away from each other and are difficult to keep up with balancing.

ZOS does not have the resources to do this and neither should they because the results are not going to be conducive to having a complete connected game that people want to play.

If there is an issue, the best way to address it is through introduction of new sets or balancing of the ones that exist. The solutions need to be targeted rather than blanket bandage fixes that break more than they fix.

But it isn't a hard cap, it's a soft cap. You can still go over the resistance cap (very easily with something like Sithis or Dov'Rha). In PvE that doesn't change anything, but in PvP going over the cap is still extremely valuable because it then negates a chunk of the enemy's pen value.

You also don't need to have different base stats in PvE/PvP. They should have never added the ridiculous amount of stats they did when they reworked the Champion Point system. In PvP the base stats just contribute to a tanky proc based meta and in PvE the base stats contribute to power creep.

DrNukenstein

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

The armor cap is already 33k at 50% DR.

Base stats need to be uniform across both PvP and PvE.

Adjusting stats differently for PvP and further dividing how PvP and PvE function is bad game design and will lead to 2 isolated games that continue to bend away from each other and are difficult to keep up with balancing.

Yes, the max is 50% but any resists over 33k negate penetration. So if someone is at 40k resists they are negating 7k penetration. That's part of the problem.

I really don't think nerfing base stats in pvp would cause that much more of a disconnect. PVP and PVE are already completely different games that require different skill/gear sets and priorities.

DaisyRay

Mr_Jord_Joe wrote: »

Proc arena sets makes all the job actually... No player skill, just arena sets...

I was just talking about this because some person was trying to kill me with a skill I clueless about. The person just stood in one spot and was using some arena set to connect lightning to me. I forgot what set zone chat said it was, but it came from a pve vet arena. I personally don't mind it, I just thought it was weird that they also had daggers but didn't use them. It was just the set and them relying on that. If I had not been on a healer it probably would have killed me since it was hitting hard.

reazea

DaisyRay wrote: »

Mr_Jord_Joe wrote: »

Proc arena sets makes all the job actually... No player skill, just arena sets...

I was just talking about this because some person was trying to kill me with a skill I clueless about. The person just stood in one spot and was using some arena set to connect lightning to me. I forgot what set zone chat said it was, but it came from a pve vet arena. I personally don't mind it, I just thought it was weird that they also had daggers but didn't use them. It was just the set and them relying on that. If I had not been on a healer it probably would have killed me since it was hitting hard.

Vat staves do this. (wrath of elements). It's part of the most OP set combo in the game, so you'll see every class running these staves in PvP.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Vateshran_Weapons

Could also have been Zaan monster helm.

https://eso-hub.com/en/sets/zaan

disintegr8

I wouldn't know about skill, weapon or armour balance, I just know that I'm disadvantaged by lag and cannot be competitive in PVP.

SandandStars

someone earlier noted that pvp was more fun due to more diverse options/sets and playing styles being viable after Blackwood and before u35.

that’s about when I started, and I agree completely.

every sweatfreak I see is on one of 2 classes and using the same gear/playing style.

pvp has devolved significantly in this game. i think u35 was such a bomb that afterward they were afraid to make the significant changes required to fix it.

now it’s in a mediocre limbo

edward_frigidhands

DrNukenstein wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

The armor cap is already 33k at 50% DR.

Base stats need to be uniform across both PvP and PvE.

Adjusting stats differently for PvP and further dividing how PvP and PvE function is bad game design and will lead to 2 isolated games that continue to bend away from each other and are difficult to keep up with balancing.

Yes, the max is 50% but any resists over 33k negate penetration. So if someone is at 40k resists they are negating 7k penetration. That's part of the problem.

I really don't think nerfing base stats in pvp would cause that much more of a disconnect. PVP and PVE are already completely different games that require different skill/gear sets and priorities.

Pre-determined stat sheets and artificial caps don't really belong in a game that emphasizes playing your own way.

You don't need to have a trained eye to see that simply those two additions would not only drastically separate PvP and PvE but make the experience significantly more micromanaged and worse.

edward_frigidhands

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

+1 for nerfing base stats in battle spirit

+1 for hard capping armor at 33k

The armor cap is already 33k at 50% DR.

Base stats need to be uniform across both PvP and PvE.

Adjusting stats differently for PvP and further dividing how PvP and PvE function is bad game design and will lead to 2 isolated games that continue to bend away from each other and are difficult to keep up with balancing.

ZOS does not have the resources to do this and neither should they because the results are not going to be conducive to having a complete connected game that people want to play.

If there is an issue, the best way to address it is through introduction of new sets or balancing of the ones that exist. The solutions need to be targeted rather than blanket bandage fixes that break more than they fix.

in PvP going over the cap is still extremely valuable because it then negates a chunk of the enemy's pen value.

That is the entire idea. That is the game giving you options to play the way you want, sacrificing one set of stats for another to design the character you want that plays the way you want.

That is the entire point of the game.

edward_frigidhands

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

edward_frigidhands wrote: »

DrNukenstein wrote: »

+1 for nerfing base stats in battle spirit

+1 for hard capping armor at 33k

The armor cap is already 33k at 50% DR.

Base stats need to be uniform across both PvP and PvE.

Adjusting stats differently for PvP and further dividing how PvP and PvE function is bad game design and will lead to 2 isolated games that continue to bend away from each other and are difficult to keep up with balancing.

ZOS does not have the resources to do this and neither should they because the results are not going to be conducive to having a complete connected game that people want to play.

If there is an issue, the best way to address it is through introduction of new sets or balancing of the ones that exist. The solutions need to be targeted rather than blanket bandage fixes that break more than they fix.

You also don't need to have different base stats in PvE/PvP. They should have never added the ridiculous amount of stats they did when they reworked the Champion Point system.

I think that is probably a better argument to have than most others.

For example rather everyone getting both standard crit resist and crit damage increase they could make people choose which one to apply to a character rather than providing both. The same as making stat/build choices in any other part of the game. Sacrificing one at the expense of another, the way anything else in the game is designed.