when they said endless dungeon i expected ....

Quethrosar

A random procedurally generated dungeon much like minecraft creates worlds.
The dungeon would never end but would be saved just like maelstrom can be.
The monsters would be random based on the generated content's atmosphere.
there would be normal and vet modes.
No new sets were added but ANY of the sets in the game could be dropped in it.

essi2

You thought ESO would suddenly sprout the ability to do procedural generation?

The dungeon would never end but would be saved just like maelstrom can be.

That would be nice, but they tried to get ahead of this by stating that it would not let you save progress.

The monsters would be random based on the generated content's atmosphere.

Monsters and Bosses are semi-random from a preselected pool.

there would be normal and vet modes.

...

No new sets were added but ANY of the sets in the game could be dropped in it.

What!? Where did you get that idea from?

Quethrosar

like i said, 2 words endless dungeon gave me all those ideas.

fizl101

TBH I did expect an endless dungeon, not an arena. That lessened my excitement for it a fair bit

SirLeeMinion

Exactly, OP. Had they said, "Endless Arena" my expectations would have been more in line with what they have created. But, "Endless Dungeon" brought to mind the dungeon crawler games we've all played, or at least seen.

In a way, it reminded me of the previous chapter trailer: The three ships traveling through an an angry sea...

Ocean travel and combat!!

Nope, it's a card game.

essi2

You guys have a special skill for reading into things, things that are not there.

merpins

fizl101 wrote: »

TBH I did expect an endless dungeon, not an arena. That lessened my excitement for it a fair bit

Agreed. I was expecting, or more like hoping, for something like Binding of Isaac or Enter the Gungeon; a number of rooms of enemies, with a boss room each floor. I even told my wife when it was first announced, she reminded me of what I said when it got revealed: "...I want it to be like Isaac, but it's probably gonna just be like Blackrose Prison, and that would be disappointing."

And my prediction was correct.

fizl101

essi2 wrote: »

You guys have a special skill for reading into things, things that are not there.

but it was initially mentioned as an endless dungeon

SilverBride

It was called an Endless Dungeon the entire time until it was on the PTS. Now they call it an Endless Archive.

When I hear Archive I really have no idea what to expect, but Dungeon is a very familiar concept and it's not surprising that players are expecting something similar to the Dungeons we are familiar with.

essi2

fizl101 wrote: »

essi2 wrote: »

You guys have a special skill for reading into things, things that are not there.

but it was initially mentioned as an endless dungeon

I stand by my previous statement, I too had hoped for something abit more dynamic though.

But EA is more or less what I expected from what they have been saying about it, reading 'dungeon' and then expecting it to be a endless version of 4-man dungeons is not a reasonable leap to make imo.

Endless Dungeon/Duo-Dungeon is just the type of content, Endless Archives is the name of the dungeon.

Would Endless Arena/Duo-Arena be a more accurate description, probably, but I doubt they will rename it and once it goes live most people will most likely call it 'EA' or Endless Archive anyways.

Tandor

essi2 wrote: »

You guys have a special skill for reading into things, things that are not there.

Yup, when they said "endless dungeon" in the early hype our reading skills led us to imagine it was going to be an endless dungeon, but you're right - it's not there.

Tommy_The_Gun

Tbh this was something I was hoping too. So they would just make like a pool of 100+ rooms or chambers and it would use one of the layouts making it seem like it is different each time. Not only that but I also hoped for the objective to be different. On room would be to kill a boss. The other would be a regular arena with waves of enemies. The other would be to solve a puzzle or find an item or key to open the door that leads to the next room etc. From time to time you would encounter a way-shrine that would act as a "check point" so you could save your progress and when you return tomorow or maybe a week later you would start from the check point.

But it seems that they are just making an Arena with endless levels.

Elsonso

SirLeeMinion wrote: »

Exactly, OP. Had they said, "Endless Arena" my expectations would have been more in line with what they have created. But, "Endless Dungeon" brought to mind the dungeon crawler games we've all played, or at least seen.

This. I was interested in an "Endless Dungeon" but an "Endless Arena" is not that exciting to me.

It looks like a perfectly fine arena, and the accoutrements that they added make it more interesting, but I was looking for something more than an arena.

As for procedurally generated... one of the things that interested me about an Endless Dungeon was how they intended to go about making it. The Endless Arena is just a few random pairings of a pre-generated arena and some prepared mobs and bosses. Not a lot of interesting about how they do that, outside of any dynamic mob difficulty.

Braffin

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Tbh this was something I was hoping too. So they would just make like a pool of 100+ rooms or chambers and it would use one of the layouts making it seem like it is different each time. Not only that but I also hoped for the objective to be different. On room would be to kill a boss. The other would be a regular arena with waves of enemies. The other would be to solve a puzzle or find an item or key to open the door that leads to the next room etc. From time to time you would encounter a way-shrine that would act as a "check point" so you could save your progress and when you return tomorow or maybe a week later you would start from the check point.

But it seems that they are just making an Arena with endless levels.

I like this idea (although I never expected EA being something else than an exceedingly grindy arena), especially the part about mixing in non-combat-challenges.

I mean, just imagine the very moment you kill off a dragon and enter the door to the next room just to find... a ToT-founder blocking your way till you win a game of cards. Priceless.

karthrag_inak

Khajiit thinks a better job was done of "Endless Dungeons" for ES2 : Daggerfall. Sure, it was procedurally generatated, and certainly hasn't aged well, but it was great.

evan302

I was expecting something along the lines of FFXIV's Deep Dungeons (possibly not the best example, but the only one I'm familiar with):
Different layout every time you enter
Buffs/debuffs unique to the dungeon
Random rewards to be found by exploring
Limited save points
Story
Flexible grouping up to 4 people
Leaderboard for those who are interested

Endless arena sounds a lot less tempting, especially without save points; I'm getting old and my hands just won't take hours upon hours of combat. Even if my hands could take it, if it's just fighting mobs and nothing else, I think I'd soon get bored.

Elsonso

evan302 wrote: »

I was expecting something along the lines of FFXIV's Deep Dungeons (possibly not the best example, but the only one I'm familiar with):
Different layout every time you enter
Buffs/debuffs unique to the dungeon
Random rewards to be found by exploring
Limited save points
Story
Flexible grouping up to 4 people
Leaderboard for those who are interested

Endless arena sounds a lot less tempting, especially without save points; I'm getting old and my hands just won't take hours upon hours of combat. Even if my hands could take it, if it's just fighting mobs and nothing else, I think I'd soon get bored.

Some of what I like about the "Endless" theme they have is that I don't have to save my progress, I can stop any time I want, and I shouldn't feel like I didn't go far enough. If I have time to go to my limit, I can do that, but if I just want to go in there for a few minutes, I can also do that. Because the progress is not saved, I never have to worry about messing things up and feeling like I destroyed something.

And yes... solo, mainly because that makes the most efficient use of my time. No waiting for a group to form, or waiting for someone to figure out which gear set they want to use or finish up something before they can join me.

Sadly, arenas are boring. Go to arena, fight mobs that spawn in, pick reward/buffs, repeat... repeat...repeat...repeat..... zzzzzz.

Reverb

I expected it to be like the activity in Elder Scrolls Blades where there were a few slightly different maps cycling over and over with progressively more difficult enemies as you climb levels.

Having not watched any streams or read details of the Endless Archive, that’s actually still what I have in my head, that zeni emulated a mobile game “endless” dungeon. Whatever it actually is will probably exceed my expectations.

Skullstachio

TBH: update 40 just looks like another notch on the "false advertisements" belt. (I regret nothing as arguably, the utility value of ESO is already looking like the bottom of a nordic mead barrel here.)

J18696

fizl101 wrote: »

essi2 wrote: »

You guys have a special skill for reading into things, things that are not there.

but it was initially mentioned as an endless dungeon

Yeah but they literally called it endless archive in the same sentence their is a fair bit of reading to much into something going on with it they didn't really advertise it falsely people just expected more and tbf they could have given us some more map varieties would have been nice

xDeusEJRx

J18696 wrote: »

fizl101 wrote: »

essi2 wrote: »

You guys have a special skill for reading into things, things that are not there.

but it was initially mentioned as an endless dungeon

Yeah but they literally called it endless archive in the same sentence their is a fair bit of reading to much into something going on with it they didn't really advertise it falsely people just expected more and tbf they could have given us some more map varieties would have been nice

Lol Rich Lambert literally used the words "endless dungeon with a buddy" in the global reveal for necrom. If you look back at 30:16 in this video he says that word for word. Some people really love to play defense for zos with these replies. They literally advertised it as "endless dungeon" from the beginning, it just shifted from that as time got closer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8t7G-I3ObI

Lugaldu

I believe that this change in the name "endless dungeon" vs. "endless archive" is primarily due to the fact that an archive and knowledge or, so to speak, an infinite library simply fits thematically much better with Hermaeus Mora.

Elsonso

Lugaldu wrote: »

I believe that this change in the name "endless dungeon" vs. "endless archive" is primarily due to the fact that an archive and knowledge or, so to speak, an infinite library simply fits thematically much better with Hermaeus Mora.

I think there was no name change. It was always named Endless Archive. It was just initially described as a dungeon using the loose definition of the word rather than how ESO uses it

Lugaldu

Elsonso wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

I believe that this change in the name "endless dungeon" vs. "endless archive" is primarily due to the fact that an archive and knowledge or, so to speak, an infinite library simply fits thematically much better with Hermaeus Mora.

I think there was no name change. It was always named Endless Archive. It was just initially described as a dungeon using the loose definition of the word rather than how ESO uses it

Yes, I see it that way too. I just had the impression here in the thread that some people had certain expectations of a "dungeon" and these were not met, the reason being that ZOS has deviated from the announced concept of the "dungeon" and therefore now calls it "archive"... But maybe I'm wrong.

fizl101

Lugaldu wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

Lugaldu wrote: »

I believe that this change in the name "endless dungeon" vs. "endless archive" is primarily due to the fact that an archive and knowledge or, so to speak, an infinite library simply fits thematically much better with Hermaeus Mora.

I think there was no name change. It was always named Endless Archive. It was just initially described as a dungeon using the loose definition of the word rather than how ESO uses it

Yes, I see it that way too. I just had the impression here in the thread that some people had certain expectations of a "dungeon" and these were not met, the reason being that ZOS has deviated from the announced concept of the "dungeon" and therefore now calls it "archive"... But maybe I'm wrong.

I just assumed a dungeon because it was described as a dungeon. Being called an archive was just a dungeon name to me like Falkreath Hold or Scriveners Hall

Tandor

I agree that the "Archive" aspect is simply part of the name for lore purposes, so the issue is that they called the whole concept a dungeon when in fact what they've produced is an arena. If in the reveal Rich had said "How does an endless arena sound?" that wouldn't have misled everyone into thinking they were getting an endless dungeon!

TX12001rwb17_ESO

I expected something like the Abyss from TES Blades, there is no exploration here it is just fight enemies go through portal then repeat.