Why are so many posts being moved/closed?

Marolf

It seems more frequent recently.

Hell, about half the posts on the first page of general discussion have a page error.

LunaFlora

because people comment on very old posts and because people put new posts in the wrong forum category.

a lot of people just put their posts in General Discussion

phaneub17_ESO

I think they just want to increase foot traffic to other areas.

Haenk

I think some Home Office worker is getting paid to do some forum administration.
So he/she/it just moves around threads to show, some work is being done.
While closing necro threads sometimes is good, moving threads to a subcategory no one ever reads, it is just like removing the thread.
They really should use their time to *answer* questions, not to just remove them.

Varana

People post in "General" because that's where the threads are read by others. Therefore, if I want to get answers or discussions about my topic, "General" is the right forum category. With few exceptions, I can guarantee that a post in any other category is pretty much wasted time and space, and so those categories are the wrong ones for my purpose as a user.
This forum exists for its users, not as an exercise in thematic sorting.
And moving threads will do little to change the fact that most users just browse "General". For some reason, forum moderation stubbornly refuses to acknowledge that.
Moving threads without any indication where they have been moved, will do even less. I have no idea why anyone would see this as a well-spent use of moderator time.

boi_anachronism_

I always just go to recent discussions

wilykcat

Not everything belongs in general discussion.

I understand why many people post everything here. It's because general discussion is more popular compared to other categories. On every online gaming forum this is the case. It's not just an eso thing.

Optional story:

The one thing is only trending popular threads get the most amount comments, likes, and views in general discussion. Those trendy topics get an average of over 1000 views and more. That's only a couple of posts/threads in general discussion.

I've seen most stuff posted here gets below or around 500 views on average. Once a post is no longer trending on general discussion it becomes quickly forgotten about and ends up at page 10 and then further back. Then a new trendy post/thread shows up.

The forums are not Facebook, discord, Twitter, and other social media (those have no categories and everything posted is on one page which causes endless scrolling for ages. Then only some posts are seen and not everything. There is no organization and its really hard to find specific post on specific topics on social media. I'm glad online forums are not set up like that.

I'm very glad online forums are/have many categories to search and post in, each one has its own specific topics, it breaks up into pages so no need for endless scrolling, I read every post on the forums, the forums are like-minded, and strict moderation to keep everything organized/safe/clean/constructive/fun.

The other categories maybe less popular than general discussion but that doesn't mean it's a dead category. Those other categories are still actively getting new posts, clicks, comments, and likes. But it isn't as quick and instant. It's fine and have patience.

The forums have categories to keep things neat and organized so others can easily find what exactly they're looking for. I and others can easily find moved threads in the other categories as they are on the top of the page.

When a thread gets moved to another category it seems like it's the end of the world for some people. There is no need to worry. Every category is active.

Here's a tip if a player doesn't or does want their thread/post to be moved. Simply ask. Put a quick and polite note in the post to request it. The moderators are here to help.

DragonRacer

Opinions on this can be given in this survey Kevin has pinned at the top of the forum. The link won't work well because of the current bug, but if you right-click, remove "denied" from the URL, and refresh you will get to the forum thread - which has a survey link you'll need to treat the same way in order to get to it: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/644012/eso-forum-improvement-survey

SilverBride

I think they are attempting to make use of all the categories and organize things better. The problem is that even with posters knowing that threads are being moved, most of these come to a screeching halt after they are moved.

I believe the biggest deterrent to posters reading and posting in forums other than general is the fact that there are just way too many categories. It's literally a case of "can't see the forest for all the trees".

Also some threads are moved to categories that aren't the best fit. For example, there is a poll on the current Event's Music Box or Book that was moved to the Housing forum. Yes the items in question are furnishings but the topic was the Event and which item players were working toward in the context of the Event.

I greatly appreciate that they have provided a survey for us to give feedback and I encourage everyone to fill it out.

virtus753

For a very long time threads weren’t moved out of General as a general rule. That set the standard and expectation that threads could go there almost as a default. It was only fairly recently that very many started to be moved elsewhere, and that change was never communicated to the community. It was only alluded to when people brought up how impactful this new approach is.

As an example, I posted a thread once about Vinnius’s Research and the triple layer of RNG it takes even to start the quest. For two years it sat in General. It got a few reads, a couple of responses. Then suddenly it was moved to Questing this year. Why was it ok to be in General for two years if it doesn’t belong there? It doesn’t make sense unless moderation standards changed without notice to us. And to be honest almost all threads in General could arguably fit into a different subcategory, but moving every post would just make things worse. On what basis are the moves that are made decided?

Two years ago you also wouldn’t have seen a good part of each page Moved. Obviously something changed on the moderation end regarding how they approach threads and categories. I still haven’t seen any coherent explanation on what’s “supposed” to be in General now according to ZOS. There are so many subcategories out there that it’s an impossible ask that all forum users be familiar with them and post there instead. It’s also an impossible ask that players visit so many different subcategories regularly. It is natural for people to have a landing point, and General has been it for me (and from the sounds of it, many others). On top of that, often a thread spans multiple categories, in which case it doesn’t clearly belong to a specific subcategory. Nevertheless, it can get shoved somewhere else. I’ve also seen threads moved to places they definitely don’t belong, perhaps because of a misunderstanding regarding what it’s about.

They might increase traffic to other areas a bit by doing this, but I know for my own part that when I see a ton of posts marked “Moved,” tagged Closed, and locked, with the post count reduced permanently to 1, it significantly discourages me from clicking on them. It also makes the General Discussion area look very messy to me. With moved posts I also can no longer tell how many people have read it, how many posts there are now, how many unread posts there are, and the relative time of the most recent post at a glance anymore. All of that - the Moved/Closed/locked and the removal of important information regarding activity - is an extreme deterrent for me. It is not a surprise that many of these threads don’t get as much traffic as those that live in General.

All in all, this approach significantly reduces the accessibility of the forums for me. And, as mentioned above, being prescriptivist about categories like this (for the sake of being prescriptivist? they’ve never explained the change) is going to forestall the natural flow of ideas. If people are currently using General as a general topics area, redirecting them to fit someone else’s idea of how the forum should be used is going to be an exercise in frustration for many involved, especially after how many years of having it a different way. This isn’t a new forum, and changing it like this at this point is adding to the frustration of the messiness and lack of transparency regarding what gets moved and why.

emilyhyoyeon

SilverBride wrote: »

I think they are attempting to make use of all the categories and organize things better. The problem is that even with posters knowing that threads are being moved, most of these come to a screeching halt after they are moved.

I believe the biggest deterrent to posters reading and posting in forums other than general is the fact that there are just way too many categories. It's literally a case of "can't see the forest for all the trees".

Yeah. Personally I'd be way more willing to check out other sections regularly if there were fewer of them with broader categories. Right now it's not really worth looking at many others more than General because there's just too many.

Destai

@ZOS_Hadeostry can you help us understand what you consider general discussion please? Seems like the practice isn’t well received or understood, and with recent bugs in the vanilla software, it’s causing us some trouble as end users. What counts as general discussion in your eyes? Genuine question.

Destai

emilyhyoyeon wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

I think they are attempting to make use of all the categories and organize things better. The problem is that even with posters knowing that threads are being moved, most of these come to a screeching halt after they are moved.

I believe the biggest deterrent to posters reading and posting in forums other than general is the fact that there are just way too many categories. It's literally a case of "can't see the forest for all the trees".

Yeah. Personally I'd be way more willing to check out other sections regularly if there were fewer of them with broader categories. Right now it's not really worth looking at many others more than General because there's just too many.

I really don’t see the value in players helping players and event sections. The latter really benefits from the wider audience of general discussion, especially since they’re time limited.

BahometZ

A lot of these moves are trying to drive engagement elsewhere but it's going to struggle against human nature and force of habit. There are precious few forum areas outside of General that get any attention from anyone, Bug Reports section has a lot of foot traffic at least. Don't be put off by the discussion about 3 yr old bugs, they just haven't been fixed yet.

MidniteOwl1913

LunaFlora wrote: »

because people comment on very old posts and because people put new posts in the wrong forum category.

a lot of people just put their posts in General Discussion

But the headline remains on the main page, and until the recent bug you could still access it from the main page. I don't understand the point of moving it if it doesn't free up any resources.

I guess moving them does make the headline fall off the main page faster because all the bumps go to the moved content...

TaSheen

MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »

LunaFlora wrote: »

because people comment on very old posts and because people put new posts in the wrong forum category.

a lot of people just put their posts in General Discussion

But the headline remains on the main page, and until the recent bug you could still access it from the main page. I don't understand the point of moving it if it doesn't free up any resources.

I guess moving them does make the headline fall off the main page faster because all the bumps go to the moved content...

Ah. Yes. It's death by burying the body before it's dead. A lot of people aren't going to get how to actually get to the post since the link to the post is malformed (presumably due to some hink in the vanilla backend software app).

Hmm. I wonder if google is showing the "real" link, or the malformed one. Think I'll check that.

Edited to add: nope. Google doesn't come up with the real link either.

SeaGtGruff

(1) Sometimes people create "yet another thread" on whatever latest hot topic has a lot of players upset. Having a dozen or more threads about the exact same issue makes it harder for ZOS to keep up with what everyone thinks about that issue, so it's far better to have a single thread about the topic where everyone can discuss it. That's why you see some threads get locked, with a link to the thread where you can contribute to the discussion.

(2) Sometimes people resurrect old threads about a topic, instead of creating a new thread about it. If the most recent thread about a topic that you'd like to post about has been inactive for several months or years, it's far better to create a new thread about it instead of resurrecting an old thread that might be filled with outdated information.

(3) Although a lot of people feel that "General ESO Discussion" is the only forum that others bother to read, posting threads in more specific forums helps keep everything organized. Consider someone who just signed up and is looking for information about Tales of Tribute, or a particular dungeon they're having trouble with, or any other specific topic they're wanting to read about. I think most people who are starting at the forums home page where all of the subforums are listed will be inclined to click on the specific subforum that covers whatever subject they're looking for information about. It also helps the devs who work on specific areas of the game by having the various discussions pertinent to their area of focus be located in the forum for that particular type of content. That's why the moderators move threads from "General ESO Discussion" to other forums.

(4) There is some kind of bug with the forums right now-- or more likely with the forum software that the forum uses-- which seems to be preventing the links within posts from working when you click on them. This is not some sort of nefarious plot by the moderators to make it "impossible" for people to continue reading and contributing to threads after they've been moved, because the bug is also interfering with people being able to click on links in posts by Gina and Kevin which are supposed to take us to official announcements or to pages where we can give requested feedback about the forums, and clearly we're supposed to be able to follow those links, not be stymied by them. I'm sure the forum software developers are working to fix this bug, whatever it is.

TaSheen

Sorry. All of us who've been here for years now know that no one goes anywhere but General. When the PeTayBes insist on forcing the dead and buried sub fora on us, I will leave. I like to help out where I know an answer to something a newer person is asking. But if I have to dissect WAY too many fora to even find people who need help....

Nope. Not going there. It's a totally useless waste of time. MY time. - which I would prefer to utilize in game.

Oh, if you're expecting the vaniila devs to fix this instanter - don't hold your breath. The bug with keeping us logged in took nearly THREE MONTHS to fix. If this one gets fixed sooner, I will be HIGHLY surprised.

Wolf_Eye

DragonRacer wrote: »

Opinions on this can be given in this survey Kevin has pinned at the top of the forum. The link won't work well because of the current bug, but if you right-click, remove "denied" from the URL, and refresh you will get to the forum thread - which has a survey link you'll need to treat the same way in order to get to it: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/644012/eso-forum-improvement-survey

Oh so there IS a bug on the forums that prevents links from working right? I'm glad it's not just my computer doing something weird.

TaSheen

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

DragonRacer wrote: »

Opinions on this can be given in this survey Kevin has pinned at the top of the forum. The link won't work well because of the current bug, but if you right-click, remove "denied" from the URL, and refresh you will get to the forum thread - which has a survey link you'll need to treat the same way in order to get to it: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/644012/eso-forum-improvement-survey

Oh so there IS a bug on the forums that prevents links from working right? I'm glad it's not just my computer doing something weird.

It's not just bugging on "in forum" links. I just had to reconfigure the link from pootx's post regarding Shakespeare's English (https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20180207-how-americans-preserved-british-english) which shows up when you click to go there as "denied:https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20180207-how-americans-preserved-british-english".

*sigh* @ZOS_Kevin - this is seriously compromising the usability of the forum - perhaps you need to set off fireworks under the vanilla devs' desks?

Destai

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

(1) Sometimes people create "yet another thread" on whatever latest hot topic has a lot of players upset. Having a dozen or more threads about the exact same issue makes it harder for ZOS to keep up with what everyone thinks about that issue, so it's far better to have a single thread about the topic where everyone can discuss it. That's why you see some threads get locked, with a link to the thread where you can contribute to the discussion.

I appreciate they're trying to consolidate things. But if that's really the goal, they should be linking the closed threads in the master thread. Right now, it feels more like a damage control tactic than anything else. I usually see it when it's a situation like login queues or the crown crate stuff. Sure no one wants to see a million threads on the same thing, but also I don't think it's fair to lose feedback and the sense of impact/urgency.

And while I generally agree it's better to have one-focused thread, there's one exception - the big overland thread. There's just too much content in it. If I'm a dev looking for pointed feedback I have to wade through pages upon pages. Public dungeons vs overland quests vs world bosses aren't the same experiences. Neither are actual dungeons. Feels like if anything, that should be its own category.

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

(2) Sometimes people resurrect old threads about a topic, instead of creating a new thread about it. If the most recent thread about a topic that you'd like to post about has been inactive for several months or years, it's far better to create a new thread about it instead of resurrecting an old thread that might be filled with outdated information.

There's a case to be made for letting old threads be open; it's the same logic as consolidating threads. If someone shows the topic is still relevant, like a bug being unresolved or a fashion, then leave it open. Seems like the only thing being compared now is timestamps, and I wish more context was taken into consideration. A few months ago, maybe a year now, I had to chase down getting like a "show off your vampire" thread reopened. That could've been avoided if that context were considered. If it's really such a big deal, then they should find a way to auto-close threads. One could make an argument that combat threads should be closed after every patch, since that's the data likely to be out-of-date.

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

(3) Although a lot of people feel that "General ESO Discussion" is the only forum that others bother to read, posting threads in more specific forums helps keep everything organized. Consider someone who just signed up and is looking for information about Tales of Tribute, or a particular dungeon they're having trouble with, or any other specific topic they're wanting to read about. I think most people who are starting at the forums home page where all of the subforums are listed will be inclined to click on the specific subforum that covers whatever subject they're looking for information about. It also helps the devs who work on specific areas of the game by having the various discussions pertinent to their area of focus be located in the forum for that particular type of content. That's why the moderators move threads from "General ESO Discussion" to other forums.

I'm just not sure what General Discussion is for at this point and time will tell if they clarify that for us. Otherwise, it just feels like we have to tread even more carefully. We know that events, combat, issue reporting, and nearly everything else isn't General Discussion anymore. Overland content gets funneled into one mega-thread, and sometimes so does dungeon feedback. So like, what can we post? It's a genuine question.

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

(4) There is some kind of bug with the forums right now-- or more likely with the forum software that the forum uses-- which seems to be preventing the links within posts from working when you click on them. This is not some sort of nefarious plot by the moderators to make it "impossible" for people to continue reading and contributing to threads after they've been moved, because the bug is also interfering with people being able to click on links in posts by Gina and Kevin which are supposed to take us to official announcements or to pages where we can give requested feedback about the forums, and clearly we're supposed to be able to follow those links, not be stymied by them. I'm sure the forum software developers are working to fix this bug, whatever it is.

Perhaps it'd be best to stop moving threads so much until the bug is resolved. I'd for one appreciate it. Just my two cents.

SeaGtGruff

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

DragonRacer wrote: »

Opinions on this can be given in this survey Kevin has pinned at the top of the forum. The link won't work well because of the current bug, but if you right-click, remove "denied" from the URL, and refresh you will get to the forum thread - which has a survey link you'll need to treat the same way in order to get to it: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/644012/eso-forum-improvement-survey

Oh so there IS a bug on the forums that prevents links from working right? I'm glad it's not just my computer doing something weird.

Yep. When I try to click on that link on my iPad, I get "Safari cannot open the page because the address is invalid."

But I can copy the URL as it appears in your quoted message in the "Leave a reply" box, tap in Safari's address bar, select "paste and go," and the page comes up correctly, which means the address is not invalid at all. Apparently the forum software is doing something to the address when it's being clicked on within the forum, but I have no idea what it could be.

wolfie1.0.

ZOS has a forum survey going. Please fill it out and give feedback on how they handle forums and how they can improve it.

amapola76

wilykcat wrote: »

I understand why many people post everything here. It's because general discussion is more popular compared to other categories. On every online gaming forum this is the case. It's not just an eso thing.

Yeah. That should be a clue. Most people, on most game forums, want to use general discussion. Trying to force them to do otherwise is a pointless exercise in swimming against the tide of human nature.

It may serve your purposes. But it is not what most people want.

The_Boggart

Please leave the post in general for at least a week and see how many responses are made, and only then move to a more apposite forum if there is no interest

Varana

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

(3) Although a lot of people feel that "General ESO Discussion" is the only forum that others bother to read, posting threads in more specific forums helps keep everything organized. Consider someone who just signed up and is looking for information about Tales of Tribute, or a particular dungeon they're having trouble with, or any other specific topic they're wanting to read about. I think most people who are starting at the forums home page where all of the subforums are listed will be inclined to click on the specific subforum that covers whatever subject they're looking for information about. It also helps the devs who work on specific areas of the game by having the various discussions pertinent to their area of focus be located in the forum for that particular type of content. That's why the moderators move threads from "General ESO Discussion" to other forums.

And when looking at that monster of a forums home page with so many (oftentimes rather vague) categories that I literally have to scroll several pages to even notice all of them, they'll probably just resort to the general forum. ToT is a specific topic with few connections to the rest of the game.

If someone wants to complain how their nightblade is too weak, they have about seven (!) possible categories that they could file this under - General, Combat & Character Mechanics, Players Helping Players*, and four different PvP forums. Plus "Dungeons and Trials" if they feel they're bad there as well. How in the nine hells is that supposed to be helpful, esp. to a new visitor?

Plus there's no easy navigation between the forums. I can't quickly jump to a forum I want to visit. I have to navigate to that abomination of a forum homepage, scroll a bit (and hopefully remember where in that wasteland the forum I want to visit is hidden), and then click to go there.

Sorry, my time is limited. And I don't want to spend it on an odyssee through an overcomplicated, vague, and confusing forum structure only to end up in a subforum where three people per week maybe visit.

* Which is the vaguest of them all. We're basically all players (or former ones), so "PHP" is basically saying "everything, except that you won't get official posts here". How did someone think that was a useful category?

Warhawke_80

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

ZOS has a forum survey going. Please fill it out and give feedback on how they handle forums and how they can improve it.

Funny thing that...I gave them my age and it signed me right out of the survey...guess my demographic dosen't count.

DarcyMardin

I dislike all the different categories and never use them. I browse “recent” most of the time and otherwise “general.” This has always been the case for me, since the beginning (10 yrs ago).

wilykcat

Trying to organize knowledge by categories is always going to be challenging. And trying to find a specific bit of information by scrolling through categories is not convenient. That's why there's a search feature. When casual browsing is the goal, the categories help to organize the topics.

Sure, when posting a question or complaint, finding the right category can be frustrating. Which is why posting in general will get the quickest response. But don't be shocked when your post eventually gets moved to keep things organized for later browsing.

I think ESO forums are generally easier to use than many other game forums

freespirit

I always used General until the weekend when a mod decided the weekly Luxury Vendor thread should be put in Housing and removed from General, imo a very silly and totally unecessary bit of "fiddling", luckily they appear to have listened to the complaints about that.

Anyway ever since that debacle I now go to Recent as my first port of call but what I will say is that I do miss interesting threads there because everything is shown and stuff drops off the first page fairly quickly. I often forget this and consequently my habit of only browsing the front page does mean I miss stuff.

TaSheen

SeaGtGruff wrote: »

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

DragonRacer wrote: »

Opinions on this can be given in this survey Kevin has pinned at the top of the forum. The link won't work well because of the current bug, but if you right-click, remove "denied" from the URL, and refresh you will get to the forum thread - which has a survey link you'll need to treat the same way in order to get to it: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/644012/eso-forum-improvement-survey

Oh so there IS a bug on the forums that prevents links from working right? I'm glad it's not just my computer doing something weird.

Yep. When I try to click on that link on my iPad, I get "Safari cannot open the page because the address is invalid."

But I can copy the URL as it appears in your quoted message in the "Leave a reply" box, tap in Safari's address bar, select "paste and go," and the page comes up correctly, which means the address is not invalid at all. Apparently the forum software is doing something to the address when it's being clicked on within the forum, but I have no idea what it could be.

It's adding the word "denied" between https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/ and the "real" address for the moved page (like https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/644084/lfg-is-crazy-toxic-why#latest) - which is definitely a very malformed link. Sure it's easy for someone like me (who's been building websites since the late 90's) to "sanitize" the links to work correctly, but not everyone knows that, or wants to take the time if they do know it to fix the links.

It's malformed because a truncated link address plus the word "denied" is prepended to the correct link.