That's your opinion. If i want to filter by cp to ensure my group members have at least a minimum of gameplay time that's my choice.
In my experience if a veteran dreadsail reef pug group has more than 3 members below 1000 cp it will fail.
I understand this will not apply to exceptional individuals but i'm not interested in exceptions when forming a pug group.
I agree on the akivement filter requirement but whith carry runs you can easily circumvent it.
Yes, but there are tons of high CP players whose "gameplay time" was spent almost exclusively doing writs on 20 toons a day and turning in all the Master Writs.
Also, you can just as easily buy a carry for CP grinding. Dishonest people will try to weasel their way around whatever requirement you use. It is still be better to use requirements that are actually relevant to what you're looking for, instead of a requirement that is just vaguely correlated to what you're looking for.
Yes, but there are tons of high CP players whose "gameplay time" was spent almost exclusively doing writs on 20 toons a day and turning in all the Master Writs.
Also, you can just as easily buy a carry for CP grinding. Dishonest people will try to weasel their way around whatever requirement you use. It is still be better to use requirements that are actually relevant to what you're looking for, instead of a requirement that is just vaguely correlated to what you're looking for.
TybaltKaine wrote: »CP requirements can go beyond "gameplay time". Having a complete build for some content is necessary, and that means a certain CP level to insure passives, slottables and support abilities.
TybaltKaine wrote: »A CP 700 can have all sorts of clears per your example, but that likely means they were a competent player in a good group.
TybaltKaine wrote: »Tanking at such a low CP would be much more difficult simply because the skills wouldn't allow for the player to do so optimally. When you are pushing scores and speed, optimization matters.
boi_anachronism_ wrote: »To be fair though you can also buy carries for achievements so that cant exacly be considered a fool proof metric either.
Of course. There is no fool proof metric. There are just better and worse metrics. CP is a terrible metric. Achievements are a pretty good metric.
I fully understand that you need a minimum amount of CP for certain content, but most people trying to get into high-end content already have those minimums. You need some other way to sort through who is ready for the content and who isn't.
I am confident that there are way more >1500 CP players that have no endgame experience than there are people buying carries and then using their carry achievements to try and lie about their qualifications. In my experience, having sold many carry runs, carry buyers tend not to be very interested in running high-end PvE content themselves. They just want the rewards from the achievement so they can go back to the other areas of the game they actually enjoy. I'm sure some people might do that, but I think it is uncommon enough that filtering by achievements would be reliable in most cases.
boi_anachronism_ wrote: »So there's flaws in a lot you just said there. Because either metric can be easily gamed NO metric is better or worse. I say this because yes you can say you've seen xyz in your experience but I can find someone that will say the exact opposite. A lot of what you're saying is that you feel or believe this or that however that doesn't change the fact that you won't know how capable a player is until you've run content with them.
That being said CP is a mathematical truth. Any random player is a gamble but the truth is that if they have the CP you have an advantage and that's just a fact.
Again this is why it's better to have this choice available because then someone that wans to gamble on low CP players can do so and someone that would rather if nothing else, have the CP available to use can do so. Having it defaulted to one or the other just creates possible frustrations for players who then wish they could control this aspect.
Now if you want a better metric it would be a system that allows you to create a parse that's viewable by others including timestamp of when the parse was done. This can still be cheated but now you'd have to basically have someone sitting next to you doing the parse which likely few are going to do just to cheese a group finder repeatedly. This won't tell you if they can survive or do mechanics but at least you'd know what actual damage they are capable of if you keep them alive. The metric sheet would need to include all stats so you could know what food, mundus, etc they were running. Kind of like an armory station display that others could see about your character if you allow.
Ok, first, I wasn't clear with what I said before. My main concern isn't removing the CP filter. If people want to filter by CP, go for it. I don't think it's useful. In my experience CP is an afterthought in high-end content because the vast majority of people at that level already have plenty of CP so it doesn't really come up.
My real issue is that there need to be more useful filtering options. CP is simply not sufficient. It may be just my personal experience, but I do have quite a bit of experience, so take that how you will. I have run with dozens of of end game PvE guilds at this point. I have NEVER once been asked what my CP is. I am ALWAYS asked how much I can parse and what clears I have. I really don't see how anyone can dispute that clears are the preferred metric for high-end PvE content. I would be utterly shocked if you could find someone experienced to "say the exact opposite" of that.
Having the option for parse requirements would be nice too. I just think an achievement filter is a more realistic solution, since it's basically already implemented in the game. There's already content in the game that is achievement locked. So it should be pretty straight forward to lock a group only to people with certain achievements. To filter by parse, ZOS would have to make an entirely new system just for tracking parses.
I've run into plenty of server transfers and players from other MMOs, also ones who tank vet trials at CP450 or were otherwise running the show, so I disagree.CP level correlates with overall experience of players, of course there are bad high CP players and good low CP players, but speaking from my experience, the latter category is rare as unicorns.
boi_anachronism_ wrote: »So let me pose a hypothetical since there are quite a few of those scenarios here.
Lets say a group was putting together a vss run and they filter it by people with the vss achievement. There are plenty of perfectly capable players who may not have it but would automatically be excluded. One of the single most important things you can have as a player in pve is raid awareness. That isnt something that is altered by content you play and while you may not be able to do portals for example, you might still be able to significantly enhance the team. I know lots of folks whose first vet trial clears were pugs. Wouldnt this kind of filter make it more difficult for those type of players? Especially those that may not have trial guilds? Just a question since we are talking about things that could arbitrarily exclude people. Ive had plenty of folks get first clears on pug runs who performed very admirably.
Again these are all hypothetical
I share your concerns about people being too exclusionary. This is actually part of why I think the CP filter is bad. It excludes people based on something I think is basically meaningless.
However, I think part of the reason you see so few impromptu runs for high-end content is that it is very difficult to put together a solid high level group. Most players that have the skills and experience to run high-end content do not want to have to deal with a low quality group, so many of the players will only participate in runs when they are hosted by guilds that they trust to properly vet the groups. I believe that any filter tools that make it easier to put together a properly qualified group will ultimately result in more people running content and therefore create more opportunities for new players to get the mid-tier experience they need to be ready for high-end content.
Ultimately any filter can be abused to be too exclusionary. Undoubtedly, some people would probably try to only accept Godslayer players for their vSS farm run, just like some people are definitely going to try and require 2000 CP for their vSS farm run. Most of the time these people probably aren't going to find enough players to fill their groups so they'll have to make their requirements more reasonable. I think most people would be fair in the requirements they look for if they had such filters.
And again, if anyone is going to use the Group Finder for high-end content, they are going to filter by achievements one way or another. I can guarantee you, you are going to start seeing tons of group listings that say something like "link X achievement to join the group." I think streamlining this process would actually improve access because it will be easier to make good groups and therefore more people will want to run.
TybaltKaine wrote: »When you are pushing scores and speed, optimization matters.
tsaescishoeshiner wrote: »Why not just cap the CP filter? Can't require CP higher than like 1200 or something