Why is it all builds look the same now? I don't want daggers on my caster.

boi_anachronism_

sarahthes wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Consider this: for vcr3 almost all leads generally mandate a full range build. Lots also ask you to parse in one and send it to them. Since the one i tend to run in this content is a stam toon i usually run bow fb and staff back. So as i said before, daggers arent bis in all content. 2x staff is well accepted in endgame in most situations with the exception of course being where the entire fight can happen in melee range like rockgrove and even then some prefer staves to keep them from getting hit by curses coming off the tank in the bahsei fight. It gives you more opportunity to hit during mechanics. The ones that ultimately stick out to me as full melee build are sanity and vdsr. For vas for example i will never use daggers, with range i can hit olms while he is jumping and keep damae up, something you simply cant do with daggers.

What? The standard for vCR HM is daggers front and inferno back, just like everywhere else that isn't vAS. I would say vAS is the only trial where it makes more sense to go fully ranged. Everywhere else it's a DPS loss.

If you are talking about score pushing, then sure. There are exceptional players who can manage that but at a basic trifecta level, my experience has been that ranged builds are still dominant in a lot of them. In my triple skip prog we all use melee but ive seen many a gh prog where staffs were considered a must for the simple reason that dps running off to kill creepers in execute typically ends with the healers getting hit with baneful and silenced which is basically death. A normal +3 team without a ranged orb sorc? Thats in no way a common situation. So unless your team has the burn to not worry about those mechanics, yeah a lot of people still run ranged. Ive absolutely seen it in current hm progs. Notable exceptions being the ones i mentioned and sunspire. Keep in mind that many teams going for a first trifects will choose to minimize risk while still retaining the ability to complete the content in the time allotted. I subbed for a ttt prog recently, full ranged. They are 35/36 right now and well within the time limit.

The point is ultimately that you arent mandated to use dagger for higher level content. In my score pushing guild it is an entirely different thing and that doesnt seem like thats what the op is talking about here.

I have to know what platform you play on. There's no way it's PC NA.

No, its not. Im ps. Things might be very different on pc but thats my experience on my server.

CameraBeardThePirate

rabidmyers wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Recent wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

RNG is of course the same for every set, but that doesn't change the fact that with a bit of bad luck you're looking at 30+ runs. I got lucky there and finished that set way before the other two sets, but random is random.

Yes, that's how it is and that's how it is supposed to be. It used to be far worse without curated drops.
My question to OP was refering to his statement "ill be 90yr old before i can fully gear my characters." which to me sounds like he is not aware of the sticker book and he's still trying to get all the drops for each character directly from the dungeons.

Im aware of sticker book. I see how my comment confused you. The nirn daggers from falkheath hall have nit dropped for me or the inferno staff and ive farmed that dlc dungeon too many times. I know i can reconstruct a weapon once uts in my sticker book, why i do random normals to get the 10 crystals per character so i can reconstruct gear and also change traits. Im a master crafter and ive been pkaying eso sinch launch. Thank you for taking the tine to reply.
I finally got my ma fire staff but still need my master staff from dsa ..takes a lot of irl time, days, weeks or even moths to get my sets together. Then theres the mythic pieces...im not immortal. By the time i get all my gear they will change things again lol and said gear will become obsolete,

Nirnhoned weapons won't drop - that's by design. You need to research and either transmute or reconstruct nirnhoned gear.

The only time nirnhoned sets "drop" is from mailed gold gear rewards for topping out a leaderboard in BGs, Arenas, or Trials.

i think op meant nirn daggers as in pillar of nirn hahah

D'oh.

sarahthes

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Consider this: for vcr3 almost all leads generally mandate a full range build. Lots also ask you to parse in one and send it to them. Since the one i tend to run in this content is a stam toon i usually run bow fb and staff back. So as i said before, daggers arent bis in all content. 2x staff is well accepted in endgame in most situations with the exception of course being where the entire fight can happen in melee range like rockgrove and even then some prefer staves to keep them from getting hit by curses coming off the tank in the bahsei fight. It gives you more opportunity to hit during mechanics. The ones that ultimately stick out to me as full melee build are sanity and vdsr. For vas for example i will never use daggers, with range i can hit olms while he is jumping and keep damae up, something you simply cant do with daggers.

What? The standard for vCR HM is daggers front and inferno back, just like everywhere else that isn't vAS. I would say vAS is the only trial where it makes more sense to go fully ranged. Everywhere else it's a DPS loss.

If you are talking about score pushing, then sure. There are exceptional players who can manage that but at a basic trifecta level, my experience has been that ranged builds are still dominant in a lot of them. In my triple skip prog we all use melee but ive seen many a gh prog where staffs were considered a must for the simple reason that dps running off to kill creepers in execute typically ends with the healers getting hit with baneful and silenced which is basically death. A normal +3 team without a ranged orb sorc? Thats in no way a common situation. So unless your team has the burn to not worry about those mechanics, yeah a lot of people still run ranged. Ive absolutely seen it in current hm progs. Notable exceptions being the ones i mentioned and sunspire. Keep in mind that many teams going for a first trifects will choose to minimize risk while still retaining the ability to complete the content in the time allotted. I subbed for a ttt prog recently, full ranged. They are 35/36 right now and well within the time limit.

The point is ultimately that you arent mandated to use dagger for higher level content. In my score pushing guild it is an entirely different thing and that doesnt seem like thats what the op is talking about here.

I have to know what platform you play on. There's no way it's PC NA.

No, its not. Im ps. Things might be very different on pc but thats my experience on my server.

It is, in fact, very different on PC.

boi_anachronism_

sarahthes wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Consider this: for vcr3 almost all leads generally mandate a full range build. Lots also ask you to parse in one and send it to them. Since the one i tend to run in this content is a stam toon i usually run bow fb and staff back. So as i said before, daggers arent bis in all content. 2x staff is well accepted in endgame in most situations with the exception of course being where the entire fight can happen in melee range like rockgrove and even then some prefer staves to keep them from getting hit by curses coming off the tank in the bahsei fight. It gives you more opportunity to hit during mechanics. The ones that ultimately stick out to me as full melee build are sanity and vdsr. For vas for example i will never use daggers, with range i can hit olms while he is jumping and keep damae up, something you simply cant do with daggers.

What? The standard for vCR HM is daggers front and inferno back, just like everywhere else that isn't vAS. I would say vAS is the only trial where it makes more sense to go fully ranged. Everywhere else it's a DPS loss.

If you are talking about score pushing, then sure. There are exceptional players who can manage that but at a basic trifecta level, my experience has been that ranged builds are still dominant in a lot of them. In my triple skip prog we all use melee but ive seen many a gh prog where staffs were considered a must for the simple reason that dps running off to kill creepers in execute typically ends with the healers getting hit with baneful and silenced which is basically death. A normal +3 team without a ranged orb sorc? Thats in no way a common situation. So unless your team has the burn to not worry about those mechanics, yeah a lot of people still run ranged. Ive absolutely seen it in current hm progs. Notable exceptions being the ones i mentioned and sunspire. Keep in mind that many teams going for a first trifects will choose to minimize risk while still retaining the ability to complete the content in the time allotted. I subbed for a ttt prog recently, full ranged. They are 35/36 right now and well within the time limit.

The point is ultimately that you arent mandated to use dagger for higher level content. In my score pushing guild it is an entirely different thing and that doesnt seem like thats what the op is talking about here.

I have to know what platform you play on. There's no way it's PC NA.

No, its not. Im ps. Things might be very different on pc but thats my experience on my server.

It is, in fact, very different on PC.

Thats completely fine. Im not sure what server the op is on, or there goals. Do they mandate daggers in regular vet or hm on your sever? Im guessing thats the case. Ps isnt so hardcore about its standards for that level of content beyond score pushing across the board.. im sure some guilds and teams are but not the ones ive encountered at least at that level.

pelle412

The general path of progression for vCR+3 and its trifecta is to practice the teamwork and flow of the fight to the point where your group moves as a cohesive unit. When you do, your group will nearly always be in melee range of the intended target, be it the boss, mini boss or a creeper. By adopting ranged DPS builds (which some do) it's more of a band-aid when the teamwork isn't working well. It's generally the preferred approach to strive for maximum damage in there as the faster you burn the intended targets the less chance of other mechanics tripping your team up.

boi_anachronism_

pelle412 wrote: »

The general path of progression for vCR+3 and its trifecta is to practice the teamwork and flow of the fight to the point where your group moves as a cohesive unit. When you do, your group will nearly always be in melee range of the intended target, be it the boss, mini boss or a creeper. By adopting ranged DPS builds (which some do) it's more of a band-aid when the teamwork isn't working well. It's generally the preferred approach to strive for maximum damage in there as the faster you burn the intended targets the less chance of other mechanics tripping your team up.

As i previously mentioned, in my trip skip prog we all run melee but that is an obviously more experienced group. All of this is experienced based and im sure there are many guilds and teams that run it the way that has been suggested. However the fact that i have experienced this means that the op, if they play on ps at least, would not necessarily be required to run that build depending on the team the exception of course being score pushing.

sarahthes

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

pelle412 wrote: »

The general path of progression for vCR+3 and its trifecta is to practice the teamwork and flow of the fight to the point where your group moves as a cohesive unit. When you do, your group will nearly always be in melee range of the intended target, be it the boss, mini boss or a creeper. By adopting ranged DPS builds (which some do) it's more of a band-aid when the teamwork isn't working well. It's generally the preferred approach to strive for maximum damage in there as the faster you burn the intended targets the less chance of other mechanics tripping your team up.

As i previously mentioned, in my trip skip prog we all run melee but that is an obviously more experienced group. All of this is experienced based and im sure there are many guilds and teams that run it the way that has been suggested. However the fact that i have experienced this means that the op, if they play on ps at least, would not necessarily be required to run that build depending on the team the exception of course being score pushing.

I'll be honest, I don't look at the builds in my cores unless there's problems (I've stated that a few times on the forums). And I have access to logs to verify that sort of thing.

But I would be very, very surprised to see a staff front bar in any of the open vCR HM runs I see posted or host myself (not triple skip, but there's a lot of 1 portal or 0 portal/gal skip runs posted in the discords I raid in).

MudcrabAttack

I pushed a wood elf bow/bow nightblade on PC NA the past years through the trifectas I participated in, (GS and TTT), as well as HM RG and HM SE. It’s easy enough to survive with a ranged build, and the dps was more than enough

But now that I’m not happy with the direction of NB in PVE I’m running dual wield for the first time on an Arcanist while working on DB, just to try something different since I was assigned “melee” position. Technically ranged feels like melee position too. Major evasion from quick cloak makes your character very tanky, it’s like changing difficulty from normal to easy. There are still a couple in my DB prog running ranged builds, either way works just fine although when you see people dying to big AOE ticks it makes you think they might not be dead if they had major evasion.

So far in our trifecta runs we’re more concerned over getting no death than we are DPS, though when we get to GH we’re probably focusing on ramping up DPS more, which dual wield can achieve. It’s both higher tankiness and higher dps

p00tx

Daggers are 100% the meta on all platforms, but all that means is they're the best damage available. It doesn't mean it's the only way to do things, and there is no reason you can't either start a group or join a group that allows for off-meta builds. You don't need to be able to do the best damage to clear the majority of content in this game.

On a positive note for you, Pillar of Nirn is getting hard nerfed next patch, so it won't likely be used.

boi_anachronism_

p00tx wrote: »

Daggers are 100% the meta on all platforms, but all that means is they're the best damage available. It doesn't mean it's the only way to do things, and there is no reason you can't either start a group or join a group that allows for off-meta builds. You don't need to be able to do the best damage to clear the majority of content in this game.

On a positive note for you, Pillar of Nirn is getting hard nerfed next patch, so it won't likely be used.

This isnt totally true. Check out skinny cheeks synopsis on it.

Malprave

Good grief, another AI generated post. Getting tired of these posts seemingly designed to elicit a series of detailed responses and put some meat on the bones of this forum. Any real person playing the real game would know that this isn't a real problem.

Trejgon

While I didn't try to run any raids, I had no issues dipping my toes into vet dungeons on my bow-sorc, being on PC-EU I would say that if someone is trying to enforce dw daggers in their groups it's some specific guild/chat premade groups

ecru

UsualSurrender wrote: »

Are you pushing the scoreboard on Vet HM trials?
If not, you don't NEED daggers. Staves are absolutely fine. A 2-3% damage difference on dummy-humping won't affect your experience, plus your light attacks will connect more often in actual content.

PS: all builds look the same because everybody is copying the meta found on the internet even though they will never play the content that requires it.

It's not 2-3%, it's more like 15-20%. There has never been this much of a gap between melee and magicka as far as I remember as far as general capability goes. And no, those builds aren't magicka builds because they have a staff on one bar. Every strength of those builds comes from stam/dw/2h passives/fighers guild passives. Just because they have a few abilities that use magicka or *maybe* a staff on one bar does not make them a mag build. The dependence on fighters guild passives, stam sets and, stam weapons/passives barely even makes them qualify as hybrid builds to me. Those passives and sets were designed with weapon damage scaling in mind, and suddenly spell damage was added to them.

It was a poor implementation of an OK idea that essentially ruined all build diversity overnight. Every build is basically the same thing now, use your gear to buff your dots and do your damage, with very little class ability/class identity present. The most viable builds should be centered around each class' respective abilities, not a weapon skill line passive and a few proc sets. This is just poor game design and no one should really be making excuses for it.

Quethrosar

thanks to the armory. i can run magica or stamina anytime i want.
stamina uses daggers, magica uses staves. I much prefer magica staves because targeting light attacks with daggers on alot of mobs is a pain in the you know what.
i do not run trifecta trials ( yet at least ) but i have all vets and some hm trials.
stam daggers does make it easier to get top hodors though but magica is not far behind.

SandandStars

There was an update to the “Play How You Want” core value that a lot of people missed:

Play How You Want*

*MastersDWVateshUndeathEngineGuardianDK/NB