Why is it all builds look the same now? I don't want daggers on my caster.

Recent

Hi forum friends
I play lots of alts and enjoy the different classes BUT fell forced to put daggers on all my builds for the crit. My magicka casters feel awkward to play. Ive been in many guilds cos ive been hunting for the right one...during those guild visits i check out the parses and builds players are using to get decent dps and they all look like clones of each other.
The changes that were made to make combat more diverse has become the opposite. Now im needing to level my fighters guild rep on my magicka characters and I need to race change but i cant afford to buy so many crowns. I pay my sub and ive bought plenty of crowns over the yrs but this situation is ruining my game experience.
Also the rng of some weapon drops is insane...ill be 90yr old before i can fully gear my characters.

It's pillar of nirn or deadly strike
The rng for pillar of nirn weapons is insanely low
I dont even care about the low drop rate as much as being forced to use daggers for the crit

This is not fun imo

I love this game so much but these changes are sad

UsualSurrender

Are you pushing the scoreboard on Vet HM trials?
If not, you don't NEED daggers. Staves are absolutely fine. A 2-3% damage difference on dummy-humping won't affect your experience, plus your light attacks will connect more often in actual content.

PS: all builds look the same because everybody is copying the meta found on the internet even though they will never play the content that requires it.

boi_anachronism_

UsualSurrender wrote: »

Are you pushing the scoreboard on Vet HM trials?
If not, you don't NEED daggers. Staves are absolutely fine. A 2-3% damage difference on dummy-humping won't affect your experience, plus your light attacks will connect more often in actual content.

PS: all builds look the same because everybody is copying the meta found on the internet even though they will never play the content that requires it.

Dependes on the person..and i do...but heres the secret what sets you wear depends on the kind of say - hm or trifecta you are doing and your comp which may be wildly different from the percieved meta. Even for tanks. If x player is wearing this then y player will wear this. A healer may wear a set that is traditionally a tank build. There is a cryo set used by solo tanks for triple skip. BiS isnt the same in all content. Especially for end game. Its tailored. Its ess what you are wearing and how what everyone is wearing fits together. Dont be turned off because you dont want to use a dummy meta in content. Even end gamers dont in many situations.

UsualSurrender

Agreed. But again, that's a Scoreboard pushers concern, which doesn't seem to apply to OP (at least for now).
That's why I said they don't need to use daggers or to wear THE BiS or THE meta build if they do not want to.

thorwyn

Recent wrote: »

The rng for pillar of nirn weapons is insanely low

What do you mean the rng is low? You just need them ONCE and then you can reproduce them for all your alts.

Snamyap

thorwyn wrote: »

Recent wrote: »

The rng for pillar of nirn weapons is insanely low

What do you mean the rng is low? You just need them ONCE and then you can reproduce them for all your alts.

RNG is of course the same for every set, but that doesn't change the fact that with a bit of bad luck you're looking at 30+ runs. I got lucky there and finished that set way before the other two sets, but random is random.

thorwyn

RNG is of course the same for every set, but that doesn't change the fact that with a bit of bad luck you're looking at 30+ runs. I got lucky there and finished that set way before the other two sets, but random is random.

Yes, that's how it is and that's how it is supposed to be. It used to be far worse without curated drops.
My question to OP was refering to his statement "ill be 90yr old before i can fully gear my characters." which to me sounds like he is not aware of the sticker book and he's still trying to get all the drops for each character directly from the dungeons.

N3CR01

Exact reason I don't run daggers on mage builds. Doesn't seem right.
Staff all the way.

LunaFlora

then don't use daggers.

sleepy_worm

How many hours a week do you spend practicing a rotation on a combat dummy? That's going to affect your damage a lot more than gear. If you don't feel forced to do that, then you shouldn't feel forced to use daggers. If you do, however, feel forced to practice several hours a week on a combat dummy, then disregard this post.

reazea

In a word: Hybridization

Soarora

You can use a staff. Also, you don’t need to race change.

haelgaan

the builds you're referring to are to push max dps on a trials dummy. what you do for a dummy is not necessarily what you would do in real world... if you're curious for ideas of what people use in real encounters, peruse the logs in ESOLogs. Sure, you'll see a subset where they just copy the latest video, but you'll also see variant or completely different builds that do quite well in real content.

Recent

UsualSurrender wrote: »

Agreed. But again, that's a Scoreboard pushers concern, which doesn't seem to apply to OP (at least for now).
That's why I said they don't need to use daggers or to wear THE BiS or THE meta build if they do not want to.

Okay thank you i see its more for HM endgame which i will never do.

Recent

thorwyn wrote: »

RNG is of course the same for every set, but that doesn't change the fact that with a bit of bad luck you're looking at 30+ runs. I got lucky there and finished that set way before the other two sets, but random is random.

Yes, that's how it is and that's how it is supposed to be. It used to be far worse without curated drops.
My question to OP was refering to his statement "ill be 90yr old before i can fully gear my characters." which to me sounds like he is not aware of the sticker book and he's still trying to get all the drops for each character directly from the dungeons.

Im aware of sticker book. I see how my comment confused you. The nirn daggers from falkheath hall have nit dropped for me or the inferno staff and ive farmed that dlc dungeon too many times. I know i can reconstruct a weapon once uts in my sticker book, why i do random normals to get the 10 crystals per character so i can reconstruct gear and also change traits. Im a master crafter and ive been pkaying eso sinch launch. Thank you for taking the tine to reply.
I finally got my ma fire staff but still need my master staff from dsa ..takes a lot of irl time, days, weeks or even moths to get my sets together. Then theres the mythic pieces...im not immortal. By the time i get all my gear they will change things again lol and said gear will become obsolete,

Recent

thank you all for your replies ..it's starting to look more and more like i need to stay solo and not worry about what players in guilds are pushing for. only way ill be happy in eso again. 💛💚💙💜🧡

CameraBeardThePirate

Recent wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

RNG is of course the same for every set, but that doesn't change the fact that with a bit of bad luck you're looking at 30+ runs. I got lucky there and finished that set way before the other two sets, but random is random.

Yes, that's how it is and that's how it is supposed to be. It used to be far worse without curated drops.
My question to OP was refering to his statement "ill be 90yr old before i can fully gear my characters." which to me sounds like he is not aware of the sticker book and he's still trying to get all the drops for each character directly from the dungeons.

Im aware of sticker book. I see how my comment confused you. The nirn daggers from falkheath hall have nit dropped for me or the inferno staff and ive farmed that dlc dungeon too many times. I know i can reconstruct a weapon once uts in my sticker book, why i do random normals to get the 10 crystals per character so i can reconstruct gear and also change traits. Im a master crafter and ive been pkaying eso sinch launch. Thank you for taking the tine to reply.
I finally got my ma fire staff but still need my master staff from dsa ..takes a lot of irl time, days, weeks or even moths to get my sets together. Then theres the mythic pieces...im not immortal. By the time i get all my gear they will change things again lol and said gear will become obsolete,

Nirnhoned weapons won't drop - that's by design. You need to research and either transmute or reconstruct nirnhoned gear.

The only time nirnhoned sets "drop" is from mailed gold gear rewards for topping out a leaderboard in BGs, Arenas, or Trials.

merpins

It really comes down to Zos' stance on melee and ranged sources of damage. They tend to make ranged weapons deal less damage than melee damage weapons. Which kinda makes sense for PVP, but doesn't make sense in PVE. It honestly not needed imo, and just makes staves and bows less likely to be used. Bows got a recent buff, but people are still using daggers. Why? they deal more damage.

Dumb, imo.

sleepy_worm

Recent wrote: »

thank you all for your replies ..it's starting to look more and more like i need to stay solo and not worry about what players in guilds are pushing for. only way ill be happy in eso again. 💛💚💙💜🧡

You seem to have come to a conclusion that does not follow the arguments made in this thread. You can join guilds and do group content using the builds you want to use. There is absolutely no reason to "stay solo" in your situation.

Araneae6537

I like that it’s a viable option to use daggers with a magicka build as that was always the combination that I wanted for my magicka nightblade, but it as viable before hybridization and I agree that it’s disappointing that now one weight of armor and fewer sets and weapons now seem to be BiS for most dealing damage in most (all?) content.

Dimski

It's the normal state of affairs everywhere, not just this game: Using the optimum takes away choice and diversity.

BXR_Lonestar

Honestly, this is a product of hybridization - and it was entirely predictable. Back when Mag Spec was entirely separate from Stam Spec, you at least had two separate metas for each kind of spec, and for a time, there was even some variation in how you could achieve maximum potential damage within that spec (I still remember running Crafty Alfiqi and Necropotence + Maw on my Petsorc to maximize damage output), but now they've basically squished both specs into one category and there is one meta now for everything.

I am curious to see if the changes to the Inferno Staff passive (12% dot damage) outweighs the extra crit chance from dual daggers, but I kind of doubt it, since you can also proc a second status effect with dual daggers. If that remains unchanged, then the meta is going to be the same as it always was, and the "meta sets" will remain mostly the same, with the same 5-6 sets being the ones most commonly used to achieve top-tier DPS.

BXR_Lonestar

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Recent wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

RNG is of course the same for every set, but that doesn't change the fact that with a bit of bad luck you're looking at 30+ runs. I got lucky there and finished that set way before the other two sets, but random is random.

Yes, that's how it is and that's how it is supposed to be. It used to be far worse without curated drops.
My question to OP was refering to his statement "ill be 90yr old before i can fully gear my characters." which to me sounds like he is not aware of the sticker book and he's still trying to get all the drops for each character directly from the dungeons.

Im aware of sticker book. I see how my comment confused you. The nirn daggers from falkheath hall have nit dropped for me or the inferno staff and ive farmed that dlc dungeon too many times. I know i can reconstruct a weapon once uts in my sticker book, why i do random normals to get the 10 crystals per character so i can reconstruct gear and also change traits. Im a master crafter and ive been pkaying eso sinch launch. Thank you for taking the tine to reply.
I finally got my ma fire staff but still need my master staff from dsa ..takes a lot of irl time, days, weeks or even moths to get my sets together. Then theres the mythic pieces...im not immortal. By the time i get all my gear they will change things again lol and said gear will become obsolete,

Nirnhoned weapons won't drop - that's by design. You need to research and either transmute or reconstruct nirnhoned gear.

The only time nirnhoned sets "drop" is from mailed gold gear rewards for topping out a leaderboard in BGs, Arenas, or Trials.

I think you need to do the main storyline quest in Craglorn to get a single nirnhoned drop. You research it and then buy up the other remaining pieces from guild traders.

Nilandia

Recent wrote: »

Hi forum friends
I play lots of alts and enjoy the different classes BUT fell forced to put daggers on all my builds for the crit. My magicka casters feel awkward to play. Ive been in many guilds cos ive been hunting for the right one...during those guild visits i check out the parses and builds players are using to get decent dps and they all look like clones of each other.
The changes that were made to make combat more diverse has become the opposite. Now im needing to level my fighters guild rep on my magicka characters and I need to race change but i cant afford to buy so many crowns. I pay my sub and ive bought plenty of crowns over the yrs but this situation is ruining my game experience.
Also the rng of some weapon drops is insane...ill be 90yr old before i can fully gear my characters.

It's pillar of nirn or deadly strike
The rng for pillar of nirn weapons is insanely low
I dont even care about the low drop rate as much as being forced to use daggers for the crit

This is not fun imo

I love this game so much but these changes are sad

Unless you're pushing high end content, you don't need to use daggers. You see daggers a lot because people are looking to use any advantage they can find, which is understandable, but it's not extremely useful until you get to the highest levels. (Interestingly, builds can be quite diverse at the top tier, but that's another matter entirely.) Staves are perfectly fine in content, up to and including vet trials.

Parses are used to show a person's skill level in a standardized environment, against an enemy that won't fight back. Parse builds are often similar because it's the same circumstances each time, but those builds are usually not the best to take into content.

It is also entirely possible that people are using builds they found elsewhere, rather than coming up with their own.

You absolutely do not need to race change unless you're in a group that's pushing trial trifectas or content at a similar level. In all other areas, the difference is so miniscule that you wouldn't even notice.

In short, play what makes you happy. If you're clearing the content in a build you like, that's all that matters.

Ingenon

Recent wrote: »

thank you all for your replies ..it's starting to look more and more like i need to stay solo and not worry about what players in guilds are pushing for. only way ill be happy in eso again. 💛💚💙💜🧡

Have fun playing!

Your choice, but you don't need to stay solo. I complete normal and vet trials in guilds regularly as a DPS using a one-bar oakensoul sorc build, which uses a staff.

ramdrop

I’m a Mag Frostden and I play with dual staves and can dummy hump to 114k with dual staves. I’ve never run daggers in my build and I never will.

I run in a group and they accommodate my class and role that I play and we’ve cleared a lot of HM trifectas, close to godslayer.

The dps is not top tier but I enjoy it and you should enjoy playing what you want to play

boi_anachronism_

Consider this: Consider this: for vcr3 almost all leads generally mandate a full range build. Lots also ask you to parse in one and send it to them. Since the one i tend to run in this content is a stam toon i usually run bow fb and staff back in situations like this, though i prefer daggers if im doing port. So as i said before, daggers arent bis in all content. 2x staff is well accepted in endgame in most situations with the exception of course being where the entire fight can happen in melee range like rockgrove and even then some prefer staves in reg vet to keep them from getting hit by curses coming off the tank in the bahsei fight. It gives you more opportunity to hit during mechanics. The ones that ultimately stick out to me as full melee build are sanity and vdsr. For vas for example i will never use daggers, with range i can hit olms while he is jumping and keep damae up, something you simply cant do with daggers.

sarahthes

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Consider this: for vcr3 almost all leads generally mandate a full range build. Lots also ask you to parse in one and send it to them. Since the one i tend to run in this content is a stam toon i usually run bow fb and staff back. So as i said before, daggers arent bis in all content. 2x staff is well accepted in endgame in most situations with the exception of course being where the entire fight can happen in melee range like rockgrove and even then some prefer staves to keep them from getting hit by curses coming off the tank in the bahsei fight. It gives you more opportunity to hit during mechanics. The ones that ultimately stick out to me as full melee build are sanity and vdsr. For vas for example i will never use daggers, with range i can hit olms while he is jumping and keep damae up, something you simply cant do with daggers.

What? The standard for vCR HM is daggers front and inferno back, just like everywhere else that isn't vAS. I would say vAS is the only trial where it makes more sense to go fully ranged. Everywhere else it's a DPS loss.

rabidmyers

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Recent wrote: »

thorwyn wrote: »

RNG is of course the same for every set, but that doesn't change the fact that with a bit of bad luck you're looking at 30+ runs. I got lucky there and finished that set way before the other two sets, but random is random.

Yes, that's how it is and that's how it is supposed to be. It used to be far worse without curated drops.
My question to OP was refering to his statement "ill be 90yr old before i can fully gear my characters." which to me sounds like he is not aware of the sticker book and he's still trying to get all the drops for each character directly from the dungeons.

Im aware of sticker book. I see how my comment confused you. The nirn daggers from falkheath hall have nit dropped for me or the inferno staff and ive farmed that dlc dungeon too many times. I know i can reconstruct a weapon once uts in my sticker book, why i do random normals to get the 10 crystals per character so i can reconstruct gear and also change traits. Im a master crafter and ive been pkaying eso sinch launch. Thank you for taking the tine to reply.
I finally got my ma fire staff but still need my master staff from dsa ..takes a lot of irl time, days, weeks or even moths to get my sets together. Then theres the mythic pieces...im not immortal. By the time i get all my gear they will change things again lol and said gear will become obsolete,

Nirnhoned weapons won't drop - that's by design. You need to research and either transmute or reconstruct nirnhoned gear.

The only time nirnhoned sets "drop" is from mailed gold gear rewards for topping out a leaderboard in BGs, Arenas, or Trials.

i think op meant nirn daggers as in pillar of nirn hahah

boi_anachronism_

sarahthes wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Consider this: for vcr3 almost all leads generally mandate a full range build. Lots also ask you to parse in one and send it to them. Since the one i tend to run in this content is a stam toon i usually run bow fb and staff back. So as i said before, daggers arent bis in all content. 2x staff is well accepted in endgame in most situations with the exception of course being where the entire fight can happen in melee range like rockgrove and even then some prefer staves to keep them from getting hit by curses coming off the tank in the bahsei fight. It gives you more opportunity to hit during mechanics. The ones that ultimately stick out to me as full melee build are sanity and vdsr. For vas for example i will never use daggers, with range i can hit olms while he is jumping and keep damae up, something you simply cant do with daggers.

What? The standard for vCR HM is daggers front and inferno back, just like everywhere else that isn't vAS. I would say vAS is the only trial where it makes more sense to go fully ranged. Everywhere else it's a DPS loss.

If you are talking about score pushing, then sure. There are exceptional players who can manage that but at a basic trifecta level, my experience has been that ranged builds are still dominant in a lot of them. In my triple skip prog we all use melee but ive seen many a gh prog where staffs were considered a must for the simple reason that dps running off to kill creepers in execute typically ends with the healers getting hit with baneful and silenced which is basically death. A normal +3 team without a ranged orb sorc? Thats in no way a common situation. So unless your team has the burn to not worry about those mechanics, yeah a lot of people still run ranged. Ive absolutely seen it in current hm progs. Notable exceptions being the ones i mentioned and sunspire. Keep in mind that many teams going for a first trifects will choose to minimize risk while still retaining the ability to complete the content in the time allotted. I subbed for a ttt prog recently, full ranged. They are 35/36 right now and well within the time limit.

The point is ultimately that you arent mandated to use dagger for higher level content. In my score pushing guild it is an entirely different thing and that doesnt seem like thats what the op is talking about here.

sarahthes

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

sarahthes wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Consider this: for vcr3 almost all leads generally mandate a full range build. Lots also ask you to parse in one and send it to them. Since the one i tend to run in this content is a stam toon i usually run bow fb and staff back. So as i said before, daggers arent bis in all content. 2x staff is well accepted in endgame in most situations with the exception of course being where the entire fight can happen in melee range like rockgrove and even then some prefer staves to keep them from getting hit by curses coming off the tank in the bahsei fight. It gives you more opportunity to hit during mechanics. The ones that ultimately stick out to me as full melee build are sanity and vdsr. For vas for example i will never use daggers, with range i can hit olms while he is jumping and keep damae up, something you simply cant do with daggers.

What? The standard for vCR HM is daggers front and inferno back, just like everywhere else that isn't vAS. I would say vAS is the only trial where it makes more sense to go fully ranged. Everywhere else it's a DPS loss.

If you are talking about score pushing, then sure. There are exceptional players who can manage that but at a basic trifecta level, my experience has been that ranged builds are still dominant in a lot of them. In my triple skip prog we all use melee but ive seen many a gh prog where staffs were considered a must for the simple reason that dps running off to kill creepers in execute typically ends with the healers getting hit with baneful and silenced which is basically death. A normal +3 team without a ranged orb sorc? Thats in no way a common situation. So unless your team has the burn to not worry about those mechanics, yeah a lot of people still run ranged. Ive absolutely seen it in current hm progs. Notable exceptions being the ones i mentioned and sunspire. Keep in mind that many teams going for a first trifects will choose to minimize risk while still retaining the ability to complete the content in the time allotted. I subbed for a ttt prog recently, full ranged. They are 35/36 right now and well within the time limit.

The point is ultimately that you arent mandated to use dagger for higher level content. In my score pushing guild it is an entirely different thing and that doesnt seem like thats what the op is talking about here.

I have to know what platform you play on. There's no way it's PC NA.