No more jewelry grains?

TaSheen

merpins wrote: »

Everyone that deleted all their gold and purple writs in recent memory must be real steamed.

I don't delete anything but blue writs using really expensive traits. But yeah, I'm going to be glad to see the back of the blue writ flood.

ESO_player123

Did they say if the number of writ vouchers for purple/gold writs will be reduced (since it will be easier to acquire the mats)?

Blood_again

EF321 wrote: »

Drops rate for all gold upgrades from writs (main source of gold upgrade material) is ~25%

I hope that drop table will be updated correctly, so that rare case when you got a whole plate for writ will give you 10 plates after U40.

ZOS_Hadeostry

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic, as it's crafting related.

Thank you for your understanding

Trundik

Fariahni wrote: »

What will happen to existing platings? Can we redeem them for 10 platings once the patch comes out?

They will shut down it. Temporary. Until there will be solution

p.s. Putting jewelry in line with other craftings as they say probably means no more money from it. I have 10 jeweler characters. RIP my gold. Well, if you going to ruin the game, why you must hold on and make a break. Just kep pushing down. At least my expectations is terrifying

LiteEmUp

so for those with jewelry surveys and jewelry crafting writs, i'm reading around here to do your jewelry surveys now... and what about the jewelry writs, should i do them now or wait after patch??

Toanis

LiteEmUp wrote: »

so for those with jewelry surveys and jewelry crafting writs, i'm reading around here to do your jewelry surveys now... and what about the jewelry writs, should i do them now or wait after patch??

The number of jewelry mats in your bank stays the same, they're just converted, but the number you need to craft anything goes down considerably. Gilding a piece of jewelry will no longer be a remarkable event.

The only reason to do your surveys now is if you fear that the yield per survey will be reduced to reflect the lower crafting cost, but then, what would be the point of the whole change? (Aside from being an indirect gold sink targeted at those that "invested" in chromium)

msetten

I wonder what happens to jewelry master writs that I now have in stock. Will they keep giving the same amount of writ vouchers or will they also be converted? If they remain the same, it's better to not do them but wait till after update 40.

SeaGtGruff

SpiritKitten wrote: »

Okay but during the conversion to ancient to plating, are grains going to be counted as equal to platings? So should I buy all the grains and make a fortune when they are converted to platings? Help me understand, devs.

They sort of joked about that during the stream-- not exactly a joke, more of a suggestion I guess.

h9dlb

So 9 years of trading gone up the spout as I will lose almost all my money. Time to delete the game and move on I guess

Dagoth_Rac

Why is everyone buying grains? Yes, 1 grain will convert to 1 plating, but 1 plating will convert to 10 platings. What is special about grains? Why are they being treated as a better value than raw dust or full platings?

Dagoth_Rac

Tenthirty2 wrote: »

I think I get how the conversion rate will work, but I keep asking myself "why?"
Why are they twiddling with jewelry mats in the first place?
Is it to try and force price adjustments to more reasonable rates? That's the only reason I can think of.

But once the new system becomes the norm, won't pricing for platings just start climbing back to where they are now?

I mean, ok we get rid of "grains" and the cost to gold a ring goes from 4 platings to 8 "new" platings.
But the value or desirability of having gold jewelry isn't going to change, nor will its stats.

So I'd expect eventually prices will go right back up again?

Time is money. It will take you less time to farm what is required to upgrade a piece of jewelry.

Right now, upgrading a piece of jewelry takes 40 chromium grains, which requires refining roughly 8000 raw dust (assuming 1 grain per 200 dust refined). After Update, it will take 8 chromium platings, which you should get from roughly 1600 raw dust. Assuming nothing happens to the ability to farm jewelry resource nodes, the supply of upgrade mats is going to be permanently increased. So it does not matter if demand for gold jewelry is unchanged. If upgrade mats become easier to farm, then prices will go down even if no change in demand.

Remathilis

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Tenthirty2 wrote: »

I think I get how the conversion rate will work, but I keep asking myself "why?"
Why are they twiddling with jewelry mats in the first place?
Is it to try and force price adjustments to more reasonable rates? That's the only reason I can think of.

But once the new system becomes the norm, won't pricing for platings just start climbing back to where they are now?

I mean, ok we get rid of "grains" and the cost to gold a ring goes from 4 platings to 8 "new" platings.
But the value or desirability of having gold jewelry isn't going to change, nor will its stats.

So I'd expect eventually prices will go right back up again?

Time is money. It will take you less time to farm what is required to upgrade a piece of jewelry.

Right now, upgrading a piece of jewelry takes 40 chromium grains, which requires refining roughly 8000 raw dust (assuming 1 grain per 200 dust refined). After Update, it will take 8 chromium platings, which you should get from roughly 1600 raw dust. Assuming nothing happens to the ability to farm jewelry resource nodes, the supply of upgrade mats is going to be permanently increased. So it does not matter if demand for gold jewelry is unchanged. If upgrade mats become easier to farm, then prices will go down even if no change in demand.

The demand may increase as the opportunity cost to gold out jewelry isn't as high when the meta shifts. I use purple and even blue jewelry and never updated it because I can't afford upgrade costs and anything that might not be meta in a year. Now, the cost will be easier to stomach and I'm more likely to buy reasonably priced mats to upgrade with.

Remathilis

As an aside, this is one way to fix the "but I don't have anything to spend my gold on without crown gifting" problem I guess. Gold out those Pillar and deadly rings!

Quackery

Galiferno wrote: »

my 600 mil in jewelry mats destroyed

well played zos

Yup, mine too. All the gathering throughout the years is for nothing. I feel cheated.

majulook

So will we still get dust from the Nodes, or will it become Ore like blacksmithing nodes?

Necrotech_Master

majulook wrote: »

So will we still get dust from the Nodes, or will it become Ore like blacksmithing nodes?

that part should be unchanged

Tenthirty2 wrote: »

I think I get how the conversion rate will work, but I keep asking myself "why?"
Why are they twiddling with jewelry mats in the first place?
Is it to try and force price adjustments to more reasonable rates? That's the only reason I can think of.

But once the new system becomes the norm, won't pricing for platings just start climbing back to where they are now?

I mean, ok we get rid of "grains" and the cost to gold a ring goes from 4 platings to 8 "new" platings.
But the value or desirability of having gold jewelry isn't going to change, nor will its stats.

So I'd expect eventually prices will go right back up again?

its called they are bringing jewelry crafting more in line with the other crafts, ive always thought it was ridiculous that jewelry crafting had unrefined tempers and trait materials since it was introduced with summerset because all it did was just make the craft unnecessarily difficult

SilverBride

majulook wrote: »

So will we still get dust from the Nodes, or will it become Ore like blacksmithing nodes?

We will still get dust because that is what is needed to craft jewelry.

Jewelrycrafting had an extra step for upgrade mats that the other crafts never did. We never had to combine grains to get a tempering alloy or a dreugh wax or rosin. This will bring jewelrycrafting in line with the other crafts.

Vulkunne

Quackery wrote: »

Galiferno wrote: »

my 600 mil in jewelry mats destroyed

well played zos

Yup, mine too. All the gathering throughout the years is for nothing. I feel cheated.

By whatever luck I live by was able to sell the last of my Crowns (the week before they were shut down) and soon I will have liquidated at least half of my plating reserves (that really were more of an investment anyways).

Losing.. meh... a minor percentage yes but not a total loss and getting most of my gold back in the process.

Had a feeling this was coming at some point.

Codeman1976

Has anyone considered the change might have something to do with the unmentionable problems plaguing the crown store. You know, the one that is buying real world ___ for in game ___. I cannot speak for PC but the unmanned characters running around targeting ore nodes on console are insane. If this change has any bearing on the prices of things I would think it will decrease the value of plates just like it has with temps due to the large number of just mentioned unmanned characters over-farming said ore nodes. Am I wrong in this assessment?

AnonomissX

So for right now before the update ...

<> Mine the bejebers out of platinum and all other seams.

<> Hang on to or refine dust as your needs permit. Or sell the raw dust in stacks.

<> Hang on to all grains as they will turn into platings.

<> Junk the blue jewelry master writs.
...

Do I have that about right?

SilverBride

I'm not going to do anything different than I have been. I will continue to sell my platings because I don't see any reason to hold on to them or the grains. All that will do is lower the current supply then after the change the market will be flooded, greatly reducing their worth. How will that benefit anyone?

jaws343

AnonomissX wrote: »

So for right now before the update ...

<> Mine the bejebers out of platinum and all other seams.

<> Hang on to or refine dust as your needs permit. Or sell the raw dust in stacks.

<> Hang on to all grains as they will turn into platings.

<> Junk the blue jewelry master writs.
...

Do I have that about right?

Pre-mining platinum is likely just an over-reaction. I'd be shocked if they drastically change drop rates for refining. So, at the end of the day, the only real thing that is going to happen is it will take far less resources to upgrade jewelry. Whatever platings or grains you have aren't suddenly going to become more valuable because you held onto them. More useful, yes, but you can just farm/refine after the patch (most likely) to get the exact same result.

For example, say you refine 1000 platinum and drop 10 grains. The same will likely be true pre and post patch. The only real difference is those 10 grains will do more for you post patch upgrade wise. Which also means, if you don't upgrade jewelry until after the patch, the grains will be more "valuable".

The only thing this is actually going to change about my jewelry crafting behavior is that I will no longer be selling any gold platings as upgrading jewelry will finally be reasonable.

DirtyDeeds765

I don't know why everybody keeps talking about saving grains grains grains and not mentioning platings when each plating will convert to 10 platings when update 40 comes. It's fine to refine them.

@DirtyDeeds765

Vulkunne

So we have to stop and take a breathe, understand what is happening. I must admit at first I wasn't too happy and got more than a little excited. But my life has been boring as of late so... a little change won't hurt.

Here's how I see it. Grains convert to Ancient Grains, Plates convert to Ancient Plates. Everybody got it?

Now for the last year Grains have sold for around 45k on average. Plates for simplicity sake we'll say mmm 475k. Alright. Everyone good? Now watch how this works. Forget about the changes to Grains for a sec. What's more important is the change to Plates. Therefore: 1 Ancient Plate (Chromium Plate) becomes *10 New Chromium Plates under this new system. Follow? What once was (1) now becomes 10. Alright.

Now Grains goes away except that 1 Ancient Grain converts to a New Chromium Plate. Right. Now should you get on the hype train and go buying stuff... should you sell? Here's my answer: There is no need to buy Grains. If (1) Chromium Plate which is now worth 475k gets divided by 10 then the new price for Chromium Plates could be: 47.5k which is similar to say Tempering Alloys. Not exactly the same but brings the price in line with them. Alright so 1 Grain which is now around 40k-50k is going to be worth almost exactly the same as a new Chromium Plate post conversion.

The problem is this. For those of us who collected Chromium Plates, like as an investment even, when this conversion is done the market will be instantly saturated with these damn new plates and the price will drop for a short while. It will be hard for people to sell these for profit, for a short while. And it will take an extensive amount of time for factors such as inflation to make them worth selling to get the gains back on your previous investment price you bought the Plates for. What will eventually happen though, is the price for the new plates will experience inflation and go up to probably around 50k at some point, maybe little less but inflation will eventually sink in. Just like with other gold mats. Some things that might keep the price down a little is writs changes and new ways of obtaining these, which that is more complicated to hash out and really no need to do that.

Therefore, in this conjecture piece I conclude that if you have too many Chromium Plates stockpiled you need to sell some but keep some so you don't have to buy them back later. No need to buy Grains because in essence you are essentially buying the new plates which Grains shall soon be converted over to. In realizing this I have already sold much of my Plates for a fair price and have plans for the ones remaining, so I have settled but in a good way. However, if you too have also invested in Chromium Plates, then I would find a sale, find it soon and move them quickly and quietly. Within the bounds of TOS of course and all applicable laws. Don't be worried about losing a little on these because after all they were just an investment, however I would offer that there is a big difference in taking a hit on your investment (which is natural, this can be planned for) than ... losing it completely.

Ok. Ready? Set... Go! And good luck to all.

tmbrinks

Vulkunne wrote: »

So we have to stop and take a breathe, understand what is happening. I must admit at first I wasn't too happy and got more than a little excited. But my life has been boring as of late so... a little change won't hurt.

Here's how I see it. Grains convert to Ancient Grains, Plates convert to Ancient Plates. Everybody got it?

Now for the last year Grains have sold for around 45k on average. Plates for simplicity sake we'll say mmm 475k. Alright. Everyone good? Now watch how this works. Forget about the changes to Grains for a sec. What's more important is the change to Plates. Therefore: 1 Ancient Plate (Chromium Plate) becomes *10 New Chromium Plates under this new system. Follow? What once was (1) now becomes 10. Alright.

Now Grains goes away except that 1 Ancient Grain converts to a New Chromium Plate. Right. Now should you get on the hype train and go buying stuff... should you sell? Here's my answer: There is no need to buy Grains. If (1) Chromium Plate which is now worth 475k gets divided by 10 then the new price for Chromium Plates could be: 47.5k which is similar to say Tempering Alloys. Not exactly the same but brings the price in line with them. Alright so 1 Grain which is now around 40k-50k is going to be worth almost exactly the same as a new Chromium Plate post conversion.

The problem is this. For those of us who collected Chromium Plates, like as an investment even, when this conversion is done the market will be instantly saturated with these damn new plates and the price will drop for a short while. It will be hard for people to sell these for profit, for a short while. And it will take an extensive amount of time for factors such as inflation to make them worth selling to get the gains back on your previous investment price you bought the Plates for. What will eventually happen though, is the price for the new plates will experience inflation and go up to probably around 50k at some point, maybe little less but inflation will eventually sink in. Just like with other gold mats. Some things that might keep the price down a little is writs changes and new ways of obtaining these, which that is more complicated to hash out and really no need to do that.

Therefore, in this conjecture piece I conclude that if you have too many Chromium Plates stockpiled you need to sell some but keep some so you don't have to buy them back later. No need to buy Grains because in essence you are essentially buying the new plates which Grains shall soon be converted over to. In realizing this I have already sold much of my Plates for a fair price and have plans for the ones remaining, so I have settled but in a good way. However, if you too have also invested in Chromium Plates, then I would find a sale, find it soon and move them quickly and quietly. Within the bounds of TOS of course and all applicable laws. Don't be worried about losing a little on these because after all they were just an investment, however I would offer that there is a big difference in taking a hit on your investment (which is natural, this can be planned for) than ... losing it completely.

Ok. Ready? Set... Go! And good luck to all.

Agreed... except with the caveat that even though we are getting a 10:1 adjustment, the number needed to upgrade is only being reduced by a factor of 5 (since we're going back to 8 platings... from 40 "grains" to -> 8 "platings, which are just grains)

Thus, we should likely expect prices to actually "double", so they'd be in the 90k range per "new plating" or current grain.

The drop rate of new materials will also be slightly lower... assuming they change the drop mechanics for the grains/platings from daily writs to match that of other crafts. Which means a 30% drop rate of chromium, and NO drops of Zircon, Iridium or Terne. The effective drop rate of chromium now under the current mechanics is about 31-32% when factoring in the chance of a double drop or a full plating. (there may also be higher use... as it'll be cheaper, some will upgrade that wouldn't have... and depending on the value of the master writs, might get used there too)

That said, I'm not going to try and time the market and predict what will happen with my own in-game resources. Having done writs for years I have 3k+ grains on my account... more than enough to last me for how ever long I play this game.

Regardless... DO NOT UPGRADE JEWELRY until U40!

Vulkunne

tmbrinks wrote: »

Vulkunne wrote: »

So we have to stop and take a breathe, understand what is happening. I must admit at first I wasn't too happy and got more than a little excited. But my life has been boring as of late so... a little change won't hurt.

Here's how I see it. Grains convert to Ancient Grains, Plates convert to Ancient Plates. Everybody got it?

Now for the last year Grains have sold for around 45k on average. Plates for simplicity sake we'll say mmm 475k. Alright. Everyone good? Now watch how this works. Forget about the changes to Grains for a sec. What's more important is the change to Plates. Therefore: 1 Ancient Plate (Chromium Plate) becomes *10 New Chromium Plates under this new system. Follow? What once was (1) now becomes 10. Alright.

Now Grains goes away except that 1 Ancient Grain converts to a New Chromium Plate. Right. Now should you get on the hype train and go buying stuff... should you sell? Here's my answer: There is no need to buy Grains. If (1) Chromium Plate which is now worth 475k gets divided by 10 then the new price for Chromium Plates could be: 47.5k which is similar to say Tempering Alloys. Not exactly the same but brings the price in line with them. Alright so 1 Grain which is now around 40k-50k is going to be worth almost exactly the same as a new Chromium Plate post conversion.

The problem is this. For those of us who collected Chromium Plates, like as an investment even, when this conversion is done the market will be instantly saturated with these damn new plates and the price will drop for a short while. It will be hard for people to sell these for profit, for a short while. And it will take an extensive amount of time for factors such as inflation to make them worth selling to get the gains back on your previous investment price you bought the Plates for. What will eventually happen though, is the price for the new plates will experience inflation and go up to probably around 50k at some point, maybe little less but inflation will eventually sink in. Just like with other gold mats. Some things that might keep the price down a little is writs changes and new ways of obtaining these, which that is more complicated to hash out and really no need to do that.

Therefore, in this conjecture piece I conclude that if you have too many Chromium Plates stockpiled you need to sell some but keep some so you don't have to buy them back later. No need to buy Grains because in essence you are essentially buying the new plates which Grains shall soon be converted over to. In realizing this I have already sold much of my Plates for a fair price and have plans for the ones remaining, so I have settled but in a good way. However, if you too have also invested in Chromium Plates, then I would find a sale, find it soon and move them quickly and quietly. Within the bounds of TOS of course and all applicable laws. Don't be worried about losing a little on these because after all they were just an investment, however I would offer that there is a big difference in taking a hit on your investment (which is natural, this can be planned for) than ... losing it completely.

Ok. Ready? Set... Go! And good luck to all.

Agreed... except with the caveat that even though we are getting a 10:1 adjustment, the number needed to upgrade is only being reduced by a factor of 5 (since we're going back to 8 platings... from 40 "grains" to -> 8 "platings, which are just grains)

Thus, we should likely expect prices to actually "double", so they'd be in the 90k range per "new plating" or current grain.

The drop rate of new materials will also be slightly lower... assuming they change the drop mechanics for the grains/platings from daily writs to match that of other crafts. Which means a 30% drop rate of chromium, and NO drops of Zircon, Iridium or Terne. The effective drop rate of chromium now under the current mechanics is about 31-32% when factoring in the chance of a double drop or a full plating. (there may also be higher use... as it'll be cheaper, some will upgrade that wouldn't have... and depending on the value of the master writs, might get used there too)

That said, I'm not going to try and time the market and predict what will happen with my own in-game resources. Having done writs for years I have 3k+ grains on my account... more than enough to last me for how ever long I play this game.

Regardless... DO NOT UPGRADE JEWELRY until U40!

You may be right about that. Using my 475k figure from earlier and dividing by 8 mats per upgrade (which I had noticed) it could mean higher prices for the new plates. However they're still making other changes, plus the fact that as we all know, Jewelry Crafting itself ain't cheap and is rather time consuming and expensive, so I would predict we're still going to have an over-saturated market and people who would buy plates won't have a reason to without getting their crafted finished.

Will be a different environment with a loaded market. Cheaper Platings but few can use them.

NoSoup

Hopefully they'll also let us finally be able to decon all the jewellery I have stashed from before the jewellery crafting era...

Twohothardware

Whats the play on the gold jewelry you have right now that you don't plan on using? Deconstruct to get the potential gold plate or hold on to them? I'd like to free up some bank space.

karthrag_inak

Khajiit does not understand any of the doom and gloom. He has 120 Chromium Platings, and 180 Zircron Platings, and cannot wait for these numbers to explode by 10. In fact, this one is excited for all facets of this change.

This one also has 20 7 prof master crafters, and has until very recently done all 20's dailies every day. Unfortunately, the ridiculous costs of platinum ounces on vendors has made that more difficult - this one refuses to do any of his 9500+ surveys just for dailies - but now that chromium and other platings are going to be reasonably priced due to greater availability, the cost of platinum should come down as well.

To all the folks who feel this is going to ruin your "business", ask yourself, are you part of the original problem? Are you one of the people charging 200+ gold per platinum ounce? If so, shame on you!