"Polar Wind" .... more likely "Tanky Wind"

LittlePinkDot

There wouldn't be as many Wardens using Polar wind if Arctic blast didn't get nerfed with Necrom.
DK and Arcanist are allowed to have a ranged instant stun. But for some reason Warden wasn't allowed to have an instant stun that only works within 5ish meters.

Ren_TheRedFox

@LittlePinkDot just asking out of curiosity .... but what does Arctic Blast's stun have to do with Polar Wind???? Arctic scales off offensive stats, while Polar Wind scales off health .... if you're a dps with high spell or weapon damage, Arctic Blasts should heal you pretty well????

LittlePinkDot

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@LittlePinkDot just asking out of curiosity .... but what does Arctic Blast's stun have to do with Polar Wind???? Arctic scales off offensive stats, while Polar Wind scales off health .... if you're a dps with high spell or weapon damage, Arctic Blasts should heal you pretty well????

PvP. The instant stun is what PvP wardens in melee range need to lock somebody down long enough to get a burst combo off.
Almost any PvP warden would choose the instant stun over the heal from polar wind.

Ren_TheRedFox

@LittlePinkDot yeah but what has the stun to do with the heal? They're still getting stunned after 2 seconds ... I know it sucks but I kinda don't understand why you would use Polar Wind instead of the stun?

LittlePinkDot

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@LittlePinkDot yeah but what has the stun to do with the heal? They're still getting stunned after 2 seconds ... I know it sucks but I kinda don't understand why you would use Polar Wind instead of the stun?

A 2 second delay with such a close range skill is almost useless.
Almost everyone hates it, so they switched to polar wind for the better heal.

Why is DK allowed to have an instant ranged stun?

Why was Warden not allowed to have an instant stun with a fraction of the range?

Ren_TheRedFox

@LittlePinkDot ohh ok now I know what you mean ... yeah the stun delay is annoying I agree on that one but at least they made it scale off your offensive stats which is better in my opinion ... the healing isn't that strong I agree on that cause I'm struggling with it too on my dps build but I personally would have scaled it off like Magicka ... would make more sense

gariondavey

Miracle19 wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@Miracle19 I play against pretty good PvP players and still don't die that often .... and no, I don't need to play a respawn simulator if I have a good team with brawlers that can dish out the damage.

In addition, there are different healing styles.
Personally, I prefer the high healing output style with over 50% healing done, even if Battlespirit cuts it in half ....

Don't get me wrong, but this is my opinion about the "polar wind bot". It's boring and doesn't require much skill because stacking hp isn't hard, but managing your rss on a normal scaled healer and keeping your group alive is the real challenge for me at least.

Your preferred playstyle is the way you should play the game. But you can’t say being a “polar wind bot” doesn’t require much skill, as polar wind can’t ever save an entire team. Is it a very strong heal? Yes. But there are many other heals that are stronger.

I don’t disagree that you probably play against some good players. But there is a huge difference in good players, and some of the best, especially in premades or GVG scenarios where damage is extremely high.

This. And in those scenarios, a healer that isn't in 40-50k hp is not going to survive.

Ren_TheRedFox

@gariondavey ok there is one thing I don't quite understand.
You're talking about premades and stuff like that, where people have very high damage output and are built for it ... but these people are pretty glass canon, if I understood correctly .... playing like that requires quite a bit of skill and a calm mindset .... I understand that you need a high healing output for these fights, but ... doesn't it show that people prefer more of a simple playstyle when it comes to healing, but a complex one when it comes to dps?

I'm only asking because I'm really curious about this. Because in my experience most people in cyro/ ball groups that I've been in and organized BGs have extremely high damage but less resistances ..... Wouldn't a healer with extremely high healing output be able to "overheal" the damage done to them? 40-50k also means you have to do a large amount of damage to kill them when they are healed, and in a premade or organized group people have vigor or radiating regeneration ... so there are cross heals, etc.
And that leads me to my last point here ..... all it does is support the stalemate tanky meta where no one dies because everyone is too tanky and spamming a heal, the scales of hp just supports the whole action. There are no more fights where people really die and that just makes the whole thing more boring.

But as I said, that's just my opinion on it ... You don't have to like it, but I think the points I made are not worth thinking about.

gariondavey

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@gariondavey ok there is one thing I don't quite understand.
You're talking about premades and stuff like that, where people have very high damage output and are built for it ... but these people are pretty glass canon, if I understood correctly .... playing like that requires quite a bit of skill and a calm mindset .... I understand that you need a high healing output for these fights, but ... doesn't it show that people prefer more of a simple playstyle when it comes to healing, but a complex one when it comes to dps?

I'm only asking because I'm really curious about this. Because in my experience most people in cyro/ ball groups that I've been in and organized BGs have extremely high damage but less resistances ..... Wouldn't a healer with extremely high healing output be able to "overheal" the damage done to them? 40-50k also means you have to do a large amount of damage to kill them when they are healed, and in a premade or organized group people have vigor or radiating regeneration ... so there are cross heals, etc.
And that leads me to my last point here ..... all it does is support the stalemate tanky meta where no one dies because everyone is too tanky and spamming a heal, the scales of hp just supports the whole action. There are no more fights where people really die and that just makes the whole thing more boring.

But as I said, that's just my opinion on it ... You don't have to like it, but I think the points I made are not worth thinking about.

In most premades everyone has over 40k hp and well over 30k resists. Burst comps will have lower damage (2-5m damage per dps) and pressure comps will higher damage (4-8m damage per dps).
It is common to have few deaths across all teams (assuming they are all of similar skill) as premade rules dictate wins first by kills, and then if there is a tie, the team with fewer deaths wins.

This "tank" meta has only been brought on by zos giving everyone free resources + free 1000 wd when they reworked cp. You can easily have 7-9k wd in a premade even with 40k+ hp and 30k+ resists. If those stats were removed, people's health pools and how they build their dps characters would be completely different.

LittlePinkDot

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@LittlePinkDot ohh ok now I know what you mean ... yeah the stun delay is annoying I agree on that one but at least they made it scale off your offensive stats which is better in my opinion ... the healing isn't that strong I agree on that cause I'm struggling with it too on my dps build but I personally would have scaled it off like Magicka ... would make more sense

PvP characters stack health. Need to have minimum 30k health. And you get more health per attribute point than magicka or stamina.
Usually my health and main offensive stat are roughly equal.

Putting all your points into magicka or stamina is archaic and you'll get killed in PvP so fast it won't matter what you DPS is because you can't do DPS if you're dead.

Ren_TheRedFox

btw guys isn't this lovely???

Rhaegar75

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

btw guys isn't this lovely???

I can already savour the immense fun when fighting his group in a BG.

BGs are so much fun when no one dies - at the end of the day isn’t that the aim of PvP?
Healbotting till eternity and reaching immortality…..and a toxic cloud of boredom

Ren_TheRedFox

@Rhaegar75 lol guess what that's without major mending😂 We don't wanna know how high it would be with it😂

Vaqual

it is funny how it is obviously broken, but not even the most complained about thing...speaks volumes about the state of game balance

Ren_TheRedFox

@Vaqual right??

I find it funny how some people try to defend it .... Of course it's a great skill, I use it myself, but I don't dedicate my whole build to it and start stacking HP just to have a great burst heal ... it just messes up the whole healing setup ... the question is ... would you rather have the magicka and overall higher healing output on every other healing skill but less on Polar Wind, or would you want high HP and less healing output on the other skills but more on Polar Wind?

The second option will eventually make you unkillable, but at that point I would start calling myself a tank, because the only difference between the two is that I don't have the magicka and overall higher healing output on every other healing skill besides Polar Wind.

But I can guarantee anyone trying to build a warden healer .... that you don't need max HP ... as long as you have enough magicka and resistances you won't get killed that easily if you are with your group ...., if you split up and get attacked by a whole group you will die, but that's something that should normally happen ...., so it's not bad.

AndreNoir

LittlePinkDot wrote: »

Why was Warden not allowed to have an instant stun with a fraction of the range?

Because it's an AoE stun with a damage, status effect and heal on top of everything ?

Udrath

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

btw guys isn't this lovely???

That’s low I can get it way higher 😂
Also where’s the video where the guy has this on every slot on both bars

Brakkish

I wont deny that Polar Wind is OP; but your photoshop-fu needs work.

In "33954" the 54 are clearly shorter than the 339.
In "8943" the 4 is clearly shorter than the 89 and 3.

Mr_Jord_Joe

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

btw guys isn't this lovely???

Totally bad image... every one can see the numbers on UESP build editor, "Polar Wind", roughly speaking, has healing equivalent to approximately 30%-33% of maximum life (15%-16,5% on PvP), to have a value similar to the image you would need at least 100k HP... "Polar Wind" has a strong heal if you sacrifice damage for HP, unfortunately we are in a season of the arena weapon meta, which basically does all the work with abusive damage even though users have high defense and health... in my opinion , this is giving the impression that the skill is more powerful than it really is...

Ren_TheRedFox

@Mr_Jord_Joe I'm talking about a healer/tank not a damage dealer. Your dps doesn't matter as a healer and a quick note on the side .... The max HP for the image I posted was at around 65k or so. And also it doesn't matter if battle spirit cuts the healing done in half cause if you crit you'll end up getting that value again ... Besides that you also have to consider that you have 20% more healing done in cyrodiil near keeps ... even my healer with 34k hp in cyro has a polar wind heal of 30k because of my high healing done ... I really don't wanna think about it how high it would be if you have at least 50k hp and 50% healing done cause that is op.

Mr_Jord_Joe

@Ren_TheRedFox If you stay alive for an indefinite period of time with this cure, as I am very suspicious of this build, it seems to me that it does not have any consistent defense, just the cure itself, because as you said, it is focused on healing done, and we all know that resources are not infinite, if you can stay alive against average players, your build has defense, and sustain to stay standing, then this healing is really a bit worrying because healers can stay alive a bit more this is basic, but I still agree that the collateral healing on an ally is a little too much, the templar for example, there is collateral healing, but the collateral healing is much smaller, whereas the warden heals the same amount as the original value...

Ren_TheRedFox

@Mr_Jord_Joe another thing there is that most of them wear at least 5 pieces of heavy armor and with a resto staff you get 30% more magicka back ... with the heavy armor (5 pieces) you get 20% more back .... so that's 50% more magicka recovery with a heavy attack .... basically 50% of your rss are restored this way and you get major mending on top of that too ... so you can spam 2 polar winds and you will be at full health again and again the same process

wilykcat

Polar "tank" wind ability in pvp, I agree it needs a nerf. It's currently overpowered (making that player completely indestructible) from what I've seen in battlegrounds.

Or there could be a new pvp ability added to counter polar wind called "break wind".

SpiritKitten

Look, if the healer runs out of magicka, and the ulti is down, and a cc is happening, and the damage is too high, the healer will die. This happens even with the polar wind build.

StaticWave

Standard DPS Warden build with Polar Wind and Dizzy Swang:

Front bar stats in CP without balorgh and debuffs:

Back bar stats:

Polar Wind tooltip with Major Mending and not a single healing CP:

Here's an Ice Staff build with better sustain and damage:

Warden is pretty stat dense and bar space efficient, like NB. Keep in mind, the examples above area all stat sets. Proc Warden retains all the tankiness and has FAR more damage lol. It's not really hard to make a decent Warden build. I'm technically a tanky brawler, yet I'm still able to provide amazing off-heals with Polar Wind and Budding Seeds. Now throw in a second Warden in a similar setup. Heck, throw in a 3rd one too lol. Good luck killing them honestly.

Miracle19

StaticWave wrote: »

Standard DPS Warden build with Polar Wind and Dizzy Swang:

Front bar stats in CP without balorgh and debuffs:

Back bar stats:

Polar Wind tooltip with Major Mending and not a single healing CP:

Here's an Ice Staff build with better sustain and damage:

Warden is pretty stat dense and bar space efficient, like NB. Keep in mind, the examples above area all stat sets. Proc Warden retains all the tankiness and has FAR more damage lol. It's not really hard to make a decent Warden build. I'm technically a tanky brawler, yet I'm still able to provide amazing off-heals with Polar Wind and Budding Seeds. Now throw in a second Warden in a similar setup. Heck, throw in a 3rd one too lol. Good luck killing them honestly.

not hard to kill them if you have the proper damage

StaticWave

Miracle19 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Standard DPS Warden build with Polar Wind and Dizzy Swang:

Front bar stats in CP without balorgh and debuffs:

Back bar stats:

Polar Wind tooltip with Major Mending and not a single healing CP:

Here's an Ice Staff build with better sustain and damage:

Warden is pretty stat dense and bar space efficient, like NB. Keep in mind, the examples above area all stat sets. Proc Warden retains all the tankiness and has FAR more damage lol. It's not really hard to make a decent Warden build. I'm technically a tanky brawler, yet I'm still able to provide amazing off-heals with Polar Wind and Budding Seeds. Now throw in a second Warden in a similar setup. Heck, throw in a 3rd one too lol. Good luck killing them honestly.

not hard to kill them if you have the proper damage

Yea but that involves slotting multiple procs. The Wardens can also do the same.

Ren_TheRedFox

good luck fighting 3 tanky dps wardens with at least 40k hp ....