"Polar Wind" .... more likely "Tanky Wind"

Ren_TheRedFox

I think the title pretty much tells everyone what this post is about. It's ridiculous to see how 90% of the warden players in PvP like battlegrounds or even small group cyro have more than 40k hp and call themselves "healers" because they have a polar wind kit of 20k healing which is ridiculous in my opinion. Not only are they extremely tanky, but they also heal for a ton and that is really annoying. And that's only thanks to a single skill. Most of the high MMR wardens I've seen in Battleground, for example, have 41k HP and push one button to heal their entire group up to 100 percent health, and I personally don't think you can call them "healers" anymore because you need more than one skill to call yourself a healer. And before someone tells me, "But they use more than one skill" - of course they do. Pretty much all of them use "Vines" for minor lifesteal and "buddying seeds" as AoE heal and radiating regeneration and vigor for HoTs with the beautiful tree ult or life giver. But let's face it people .... these heals only heal for probably 1k with battle spirit and no one can tell me this is a good healing output for those skills. These "polar wind bots" make the PvP experience miserable for everyone else and that should definitely change. In my opinion a healer should not have 40k hp because I call these people "tanks". For example, my Templar healer has 30k hp and 28k magicka with 18k stamina and I wear 5 light armor to compensate for the mag recovery. It's a risky playstyle, but I also have a healing output and that's without spamming a single button.
What do you guys think about this issue?

Galeriano

I've already made similar thread few months ago https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/634356/45-50k-hp-polar-wind-spamming-healbot-wardens-are-ruining-bgs/p1

Ren_TheRedFox

@Galeriano sadly it seems like we have to "refresh" the posts to keep it up on the first page of the forums too get noticed

karthrag_inak

When khajiit has tanky winds, he eats some grass. Clears it right out.

Poss

Any heal that scales off max health is going to encourage the tank meta more. I get why they aren’t tweaking polar wind because it will severely impact wardens viability as pve tanks.

It’s not just the insane heal the skill gives but also the HoT, a small group of warden tanks can take entire keeps with just one DD for the ads, run scrolls and know they won’t be killed as they can just cross heal the crap out of each other.

I miss the days when people would make pvp builds to kill, two damage sets. Now it’s just a case of seeing who can survive the longest.

Tank meta is boring and stale

SkaiFaith

Nope. No nerf needed, thanks.
I get what you are saying but as a Solo one bar Warden Main, Polar Wind is what keeps alive me and my Companion in PvE.

AAAND in PvP I still get crushed, even in 1v1 duels. My 40K health + tanky build do absolute nothing against a bulldozer PvP guy, I can grant you that. I'm almost CP 2.000 and I lost many times to CP 1.000 in duels. It's just a matter of skill and these dudes are good! Definitely not me, which like many others would be nerfed even further if this skill get touched.

Pretending everyone should have a DD/DPS build, or anyway being low health makes no sense and deprive tanks of their playstyle.

Not everyone is spamming this build, so please just leave Warden mains alone.

- I won't argue further.

Edit: this skill was already underperforming and pretty much useless some patches ago, then it got fairly buffed to what it is right now, after Warden Mains requests. So...

jommerryrth

The visual is what i cant stand ... takes over my screen like that arcanist crap. Cant see anything. Totally triggering besides. Only good thing about it is its heals but for me isnt worth the hassle

ZOS_Icy

Greetings,

This thread has been moved to the PvP Combat & Skills section, as it is better suited there.

Thank you for your understanding.

chessalavakia_ESO

I'd personally like to see it reverted to the pre-U35 version.

I think that the process of attempting to balance taking away the ability's damage left it in a position where the healing can be a bit too extreme.

LittlePinkDot

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

I think the title pretty much tells everyone what this post is about. It's ridiculous to see how 90% of the warden players in PvP like battlegrounds or even small group cyro have more than 40k hp and call themselves "healers" because they have a polar wind kit of 20k healing which is ridiculous in my opinion. Not only are they extremely tanky, but they also heal for a ton and that is really annoying. And that's only thanks to a single skill. Most of the high MMR wardens I've seen in Battleground, for example, have 41k HP and push one button to heal their entire group up to 100 percent health, and I personally don't think you can call them "healers" anymore because you need more than one skill to call yourself a healer. And before someone tells me, "But they use more than one skill" - of course they do. Pretty much all of them use "Vines" for minor lifesteal and "buddying seeds" as AoE heal and radiating regeneration and vigor for HoTs with the beautiful tree ult or life giver. But let's face it people .... these heals only heal for probably 1k with battle spirit and no one can tell me this is a good healing output for those skills. These "polar wind bots" make the PvP experience miserable for everyone else and that should definitely change. In my opinion a healer should not have 40k hp because I call these people "tanks". For example, my Templar healer has 30k hp and 28k magicka with 18k stamina and I wear 5 light armor to compensate for the mag recovery. It's a risky playstyle, but I also have a healing output and that's without spamming a single button.
What do you guys think about this issue?

PvE tanks are supposed to provide buffs for a group. In a vet dungeon polar wind helps the Healer and the tank survive.

My arcanist tank has reconstructive domain to heal the group and she gives a big shield too. And minor brittle on a hard stun.

Ren_TheRedFox

I get all the arguments PvE wise people but let's be honest here .... pretty much every healing skill in ESO scales off your magicka or offensive stats. If your problem in PvE as a tank is staying alive well don't get me wrong but then I would reconsider my sets etc. and not a skill .... Polar Wind is overperforming in PvP and that is a fact ....

Norith_Gilheart_Flail

Yes, but we don't care about the minority of PvP feels, so....

OtarTheMad

I had Polar Winds once, ate at Taco Bell and farted outside during a Blizzard… I wouldn’t recommend.

Ren_TheRedFox

@Zavijah_Arventi and that's exactly why people are leaving more and more

Rhaegar75

On the bright side you could train a woodpecker to play a Polar Wind Warden. Press a couple of keys and have fun

Most boring gaming ever and a high chance to turn a BG into a boredom show.

Sadly it makes sense that many PvPers are giving up on BGs

StaticWave

SkaiFaith wrote: »

AAAND in PvP I still get crushed, even in 1v1 duels. My 40K health + tanky build do absolute nothing against a bulldozer PvP guy, I can grant you that. I'm almost CP 2.000 and I lost many times to CP 1.000 in duels. It's just a matter of skill and these dudes are good! Definitely not me, which like many others would be nerfed even further if this skill get touched.

That's not a valid argument though because you are using only yourself as an example. I can tell you far more solo Wardens who can tank groups of PvPers in Cyrodiil (assuming they are the average zergling) and not break a sweat.

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Pretending everyone should have a DD/DPS build, or anyway being low health makes no sense and deprive tanks of their playstyle.

Except that DPS wardens in PvP can also stack 40k HP with Polar Wind and be pseudo tanks/off healer. Have you ever fought a duo 46k HP Warden with 7k weapon damage? I have, and it's aids. 1 Warden runs Balorgh, Sea Serpent Coil, Clever Alc, Rallying Cry, while the other Warden runs Balorgh, Sea Serpent Coil, Clever Alch, and another support set on the back bar. Both of them have 45k+ HP, 28-30k armor, 4k+ crit resist, upwards of 7k weapon damage + all the dmg modifiers, and 25k+ pen from Balorgh.

You know why this is possible? It's because of Polar Wind. Both of them are essentially off-healing each other as "DPS" builds but have the tankiness of a pseudo healer.

SkaiFaith wrote: »

Not everyone is spamming this build, so please just leave Warden mains alone.

- I won't argue further.

Not everyone you know of. I know lots of Wardens who never go below 40k HP in Cyrodiil because the benefit of having a 40k HP pool and Polar Wind heal is too great.

There's not a single argument anyone here can make to defend this ability.

NoSoup

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

I get all the arguments PvE wise people but let's be honest here .... pretty much every healing skill in ESO scales off your magicka or offensive stats. If your problem in PvE as a tank is staying alive well don't get me wrong but then I would reconsider my sets etc. and not a skill .... Polar Wind is overperforming in PvP and that is a fact ....

Yep. Lets just completely ignore the fact that necros, DK's & arcanists also have heals that scale off max health.....

taugrim

NoSoup wrote: »

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

I get all the arguments PvE wise people but let's be honest here .... pretty much every healing skill in ESO scales off your magicka or offensive stats. If your problem in PvE as a tank is staying alive well don't get me wrong but then I would reconsider my sets etc. and not a skill .... Polar Wind is overperforming in PvP and that is a fact ....

Yep. Lets just completely ignore the fact that necros, DK's & arcanists also have heals that scale off max health.....

Do those heals also heal another player?

Ren_TheRedFox

@NoSoup all these classes only heal themselves with these abilities while Polar Wind heals you and an ally .... In a BG if you heal with it 3 times in a row you'll heal your whole group and give them a lovely HoT .... and yes I also have seen several dps wardens running over 40k hp and only use Polarwind once to get their hp back .... and if they feel extra trolly they can just use Vines before using Polar Wind to get major mending if their hp is below 40% which increases their healing done drastically. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against warden .... I love my warden healer, but at some point this ability robs players of their roles ... even in PvP ... in my opinion a healer shouldn't have 40k hp because they already have to be tanky and healy, but if you add that much hp to them they just become unkillable and that's also why I don't do it either.

Miracle19

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@NoSoup all these classes only heal themselves with these abilities while Polar Wind heals you and an ally .... In a BG if you heal with it 3 times in a row you'll heal your whole group and give them a lovely HoT .... and yes I also have seen several dps wardens running over 40k hp and only use Polarwind once to get their hp back .... and if they feel extra trolly they can just use Vines before using Polar Wind to get major mending if their hp is below 40% which increases their healing done drastically. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against warden .... I love my warden healer, but at some point this ability robs players of their roles ... even in PvP ... in my opinion a healer shouldn't have 40k hp because they already have to be tanky and healy, but if you add that much hp to them they just become unkillable and that's also why I don't do it either.

You quote BGs a lot, as high as damage is, regardless of class, below 40k hp on a healer will not work. You will die in 1 global in premade games because it’s so easy to combo 30-50k 1gcd bombs. The healers job is to keep the team alive, and you can’t do so if you’re dead. High health “meta” everyone is referring to is designed to combat the high damage. Warden was designed to be a support class from the beginning and will continue to excel there

SpiritKitten

I am a full heals warden in pvp and I have 40k health and I use Polar and lots of other healing skills to help my team. I can't heal if I'm dead. So I build tanky. Just like dks do. Don't pretend that tanky is not what everyone else is doing too. My only dps is my resto staff. Have I killed ppl with heavy attacks? Yes. But otherwise, I'm just supporting the team. Fulfilling my role. I have no guilt or regrets. It's war.

SpiritKitten

I also wanted to add: healers are focused on and targeted first. Do you think it's fun to get dogpiled and dead in a few seconds at the start of every fight, unable to fulfill our role to the team at all? Playing a healer in PVP is frustrating enough with the battle spirit debuff, but without this polar wind tanky build, I probably wouldn't do it anymore. And be careful what you wish for, because that means YOU would not get any healers on your team either. And if they are healing without polar wind, or if you are, then you or they are underperforming the role. Always calling for nerfs is what is ruining pvp. Because gamers quit when they have had enough nerfs to their classes. Is that what you want? Even less players in PVP?

Ren_TheRedFox

Guys, all I'm saying is .... I'm not calling for nerfs .... I'm just saying it should scale off magicka like any other burst/normal heal.

Just to add something .... I myself have been healing for years in Cyrodiil and mostly in BGs. I still have less than 40k hp on a templar and I have much or even more healing output than other players on polar wind wardens. Yes, you have to be tanky ... that is essential and yes you will get targeted or even killed .... but a good healer knows how to deal with it and how to survive it .... pressing a button to heal up to 100% and then pressing block doesn't require much skill in my opinion ...
But the good thing is that there are still wardens out there who REALLY play a warden healer without just relying on a specific skill.

The tanky max HP builds are meta right now ... no matter on wardens or on dks .... It makes everyone's gameplay miserable and I'm pretty sure most of you guys would agree on that.

Ren_TheRedFox

@SpiritKitten also for your information ... I have a warden healer with 32k hp and 27k resistances and I still survive and heal a lot ... Wardens have great access to HoTs to benefit from, and also for the argument that you get dogpiled etc. Of course you eventually die when a whole team pounces on you ..... that's pretty normal I'd say ...

gariondavey

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@SpiritKitten also for your information ... I have a warden healer with 32k hp and 27k resistances and I still survive and heal a lot ... Wardens have great access to HoTs to benefit from, and also for the argument that you get dogpiled etc. Of course you eventually die when a whole team pounces on you ..... that's pretty normal I'd say ...

Playing a warden healer with less than 40k hp is like shooting yourself in the foot.
Playing any healer with less than 40k hp is a bad move.
Playing any dps with less than 35k, preferably 38k or 40k hp, is a bad idea.

Ren_TheRedFox

seems like a bunch of tanky playstyles to me tbh

xDeusEJRx

What? You're telling me there's something wrong with my 40k health Polar Wind, Echoing vigor, radiating regen, Energy orb off-heal group?

Miracle19

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

seems like a bunch of tanky playstyles to me tbh

You can say that as you don’t play regularly against some of the best players in the game. Less than 35k hp, you will be playing respawn simulator. Damage is much higher than healing, you can’t outheal a 40k gcd bomb but you can have enough HP to give the healer a chance to keep you alive.

Galeriano

Nothing is more boring than playing a BG where there is 45k+ HP warden healbot. No other class as a healbot can suck away all fun from a match as much as warden does. High HP scaling tank survival heal should never be also a group crossheal.

Ren_TheRedFox

@Miracle19 I play against pretty good PvP players and still don't die that often .... and no, I don't need to play a respawn simulator if I have a good team with brawlers that can dish out the damage.

In addition, there are different healing styles.
Personally, I prefer the high healing output style with over 50% healing done, even if Battlespirit cuts it in half ....

Don't get me wrong, but this is my opinion about the "polar wind bot". It's boring and doesn't require much skill because stacking hp isn't hard, but managing your rss on a normal scaled healer and keeping your group alive is the real challenge for me at least.

Miracle19

Ren_TheRedFox wrote: »

@Miracle19 I play against pretty good PvP players and still don't die that often .... and no, I don't need to play a respawn simulator if I have a good team with brawlers that can dish out the damage.

In addition, there are different healing styles.
Personally, I prefer the high healing output style with over 50% healing done, even if Battlespirit cuts it in half ....

Don't get me wrong, but this is my opinion about the "polar wind bot". It's boring and doesn't require much skill because stacking hp isn't hard, but managing your rss on a normal scaled healer and keeping your group alive is the real challenge for me at least.

Your preferred playstyle is the way you should play the game. But you can’t say being a “polar wind bot” doesn’t require much skill, as polar wind can’t ever save an entire team. Is it a very strong heal? Yes. But there are many other heals that are stronger.

I don’t disagree that you probably play against some good players. But there is a huge difference in good players, and some of the best, especially in premades or GVG scenarios where damage is extremely high.