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Do they expect guild masters to buy all the mundus stones etc by themselves?
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Kappachi✭✭✭✭SaintJohnHM wrote: »
I'm not saying they shouldn't resolve the issue. But there IS a way to avoid it all coming out of the GM's pocket.
A few guildies chipping in to gift the Mundus Stones worked just fine for us. Doing it via crown gifting still means someone paid RL $$ to get them lol.
That " RL $$ " was often freely given as part of the purchase for your subscription, it's very different when you're just outright buying crowns, that's only worth it during a crown sale.
And also, trading RL money/Paypal to your guild leader to have them buy an item is directly against the TOS of the game AFAIK.Edited by Kappachi on September 4, 2023 4:33PM2 -
hiyde✭✭✭✭✭
✭
And also, trading RL money/Paypal to your guild leader to have them buy an item is directly against the TOS of the game AFAIK.
I'd love to see the relevant section of the TOS that states this, because I'd be shocked.
If someone gives me money out in the real world, and I use it to buy an item in the game for MY house, I don't see how that could possibly be against TOS. I'm not trading anything in-game to this person , which is where TOS violation comes into the picture.
Edited by hiyde on September 4, 2023 4:43PM@Hiyde GM/Founder - Bleakrock Barter Co (Trade Guild - PC/NA) | Blackbriar Barter Co (Trade Guild-PC/NA)2 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And also, trading RL money/Paypal to your guild leader to have them buy an item is directly against the TOS of the game AFAIK.
I don't see this as a violation. It's no different from a player buying crowns then gifting an item. They are just giving the player the money to buy the crowns and purchase the item themselves.
Crown gifting includes gold changing hands, yet is not a violation.Edited by SilverBride on September 4, 2023 5:04PMPCNA0 -
kah✭✭✭Just to clarify (and I'm not sure if this is even what you meant), we can't trade RL $$ for gold.
"Donate $5 for our mundus fund and we'll give you 500k gold" = against TOS
"Buy raffle tickets to win Necrom" = against TOS
"Donate $5 for our mundus fund and you could win an Amazon Gift Card" = OK (as far as I know).
Another example, we have a member that donates 4 xpacs every year. We give it away via free enter-to-win on our website (not via in-game paid raffle).
The only exception to this was trading gold for crowns (surprisingly) being blessed.
We def did not do any RMT. Sorry for the confusion. I know of others who would just buy the crowns for gold which, as I understand, may or may not be against TOS now. We mostly just got gifted mundus stones from guildees here and there, or the GM bought some.Edited by kah on September 4, 2023 5:25PM1 -
Kiyakotari✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, I can't imagine any ToS that could justify limiting IRL gifting of funds. Like, someone's family member decides to give them money, and they turn around and use that money to pay for an ESO+ subscription...? Or a friend gives a player money, and the player uses that money to purchase a new ESO chapter? The idea that things like that could be seen as ToS violations is ludicrous. That's just someone using funds to make a purchase from ZOS, which is exactly what ZOS wants people to do.
The fact that funds are sourced from a gift IRL doesn't make them fraudulent. If it did, no one could ever buy gift cards and put them in birthday letters or anything like that. Heck, a few years ago my parents gave me the money to purchase an annual ESO+ sub for Christmas. That was my gift from them that year, and it was awesome! Way more useful to me than a physical gift like clothing or something, and very heartfelt on their part. Giving someone a gift is not a bad thing. I've given the ESO base game to several of my close IRL friends, because I wanted to be able to play with them. It's not a ToS violation to gift things to people. It's not at all the same as someone exchanging IRL currency for ESO currency through some kind of fraudulent black market or something.2 -
CrashTest✭✭✭✭✭
✭SaintJohnHM wrote: »
fr that's just asking to be scammed. No way in Oblivion am I going to directly give real money, my full real name, address, and phone number to another player and anyone would be a fool to accept money from another player offering it.
Support and this forum are going to be flooded with "My guild leader stole my money!" or "I gave my guild leader money but I want it back!" type posts.3 -
lillybit✭✭✭✭✭
✭MidniteOwl1913 wrote: »I had no idea that something so vital wasn't available for gold in game! I think the guilds are the single best thing about the game and now I feel guilty about not being able to help with that expense.
Gah! I thought just donating in-game covered everything. I hope ZOS fixes this! Or at the very least makes sure there is a away to donate crowns to the guild bank.
Donating def can (well, did) help!
Just to clarify, we can't trade RL $$ for gold.
"Donate $5 for our mundus fund and we'll give you 500k gold" = against TOS
"Buy raffle tickets to win Necrom" = against TOS
"Donate $5 for our mundus fund and you could win an Amazon Gift Card" = OK (as far as I know).
Another example, we have a member that donates 4 xpacs every year. We give it away via free enter-to-win on our website (not via in-game paid raffle).
The only exception to this was trading gold for crowns (surprisingly) being blessed.
That's how I see it too, zos has no say in what happens outside the game - if two people want to arrange the exchange of money between them that's none of their business as long as nothing changes hands in-game. I would guess it gets a bit murky if the exchange is arranged in-game but other than that it's just a private arrangement between 2 people that happen to play the same game. My boss gives me money to spend on ESO every month (he could play ESO too, I don’t know he doesnt!), I can't imagine they'd object to that!
PS4 EU1 -
hiyde✭✭✭✭✭
✭SaintJohnHM wrote: »
fr that's just asking to be scammed. No way in Oblivion am I going to directly give real money, my full real name, address, and phone number to another player and anyone would be a fool to accept money from another player offering it.
Support and this forum are going to be flooded with "My guild leader stole my money!" or "I gave my guild leader money but I want it back!" type posts.
I'm not looking to diminish your feelings in any way, but want to provide some accuracy:
When someone sends a donation via Paypal, the recipient sees:
- Their name
- The e-mail address they provided to Paypal. E-Mail addresses are free & plentiful and you can tie more than one to your paypal account.
When someone sends a donation via PayPal, the recipient does NOT see:
- Phone Number
- Home Address
Common sense would dictate that if you're going to donate a few dollars for a guild project, it should be in active guild you've been with for a while, where you appreciate the time & effort they are putting in.
Fraud Complaints:
People have been donating RL $$ (or items that cost $$, like sub codes) to guilds since 2014. How many "My guild scammed me out of money" posts have we seen on the forums, in 10 years, vs. "I got scammed buying crown items" posts?
I think it's cool & generous for members to pitch in to achieve a guild project, in a guild they've been with long enough to know the management is doing it to improve the guild. If you're not comfortable doing it, don't! There should never be any pressure to do so (red flag!). ANY financial transcation has risk (and protections).@Hiyde GM/Founder - Bleakrock Barter Co (Trade Guild - PC/NA) | Blackbriar Barter Co (Trade Guild-PC/NA)2 -
Jimbru✭✭✭✭My main and only guild uses the Colossal Aldmeri Grotto as its guild hall, and the Elinhir Arena for PVP. We also have ALL the mundus stones, ALL the set crafting stations, an entire collection of target dummies, and many other useful things, and I KNOW our guildmaster didn't buy all that by herself because she has a huge family and can barely afford ESO+. Much of that stuff came from donations and gifts from guild members. We don't just have a guild hall; we built a guild home.
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Kappachi✭✭✭✭
And also, trading RL money/Paypal to your guild leader to have them buy an item is directly against the TOS of the game AFAIK.
I'd love to see the relevant section of the TOS that states this, because I'd be shocked.
If someone gives me money out in the real world, and I use it to buy an item in the game for MY house, I don't see how that could possibly be against TOS. I'm not trading anything in-game to this person , which is where TOS violation comes into the picture.
guild member is directly donating money to you in order to fund an in-game purchase which they'll take advantage of, which is real money for an in-game item.2 -
jad11mumbler✭✭✭✭✭Y'all need to know what temporary means.
That said, the crates have been temporary non giftable for 6 months now on PCNA.
Disabling gifting entirely is a much bigger revenue loss for ZoS though, so they'll probably get all hands on for it.
Either way maybe give them at least a full work week.
Everyone crying about the apocalypse hours after they made the change.174 characters and counting over 13 accounts.
120 writ certified. 73 at CP rank.1 -
SaintJohnHM✭✭✭✭jad11mumbler wrote: »Y'all need to know what temporary means.
That said, the crates have been temporary non giftable for 6 months now on PCNA.
Disabling gifting entirely is a much bigger revenue loss for ZoS though, so they'll probably get all hands on for it.
Either way maybe give them at least a full work week.
Everyone crying about the apocalypse hours after they made the change.
They consistently let game-stopping bugs exist for weeks at a time, hemorrhaging players who give up in frustration. We have no faith they'll fix the problems soon, even if it benefits them.- Casual Roleplaying PVE player PC/NA
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Kiyakotari✭✭✭✭✭
And also, trading RL money/Paypal to your guild leader to have them buy an item is directly against the TOS of the game AFAIK.
I'd love to see the relevant section of the TOS that states this, because I'd be shocked.
If someone gives me money out in the real world, and I use it to buy an item in the game for MY house, I don't see how that could possibly be against TOS. I'm not trading anything in-game to this person , which is where TOS violation comes into the picture.
guild member is directly donating money to you in order to fund an in-game purchase which they'll take advantage of, which is real money for an in-game item.
But if someone IRL (say a family member) directly donates money to be because I say, "Hey, I want to buy this house!" And then I use that money to buy Crowns, and I buy the house, There's no realistic way that could be considered a violation of ToT. Parents could never buy their kids anything, then!1 -
XSTRONG✭✭✭✭✭SaintJohnHM wrote: »Since the system is so broken and they don't seem to have the ability to fix it, they need to make mundus stones and aetherial wells and trial dummies etc purchasable via gold in game. They can't expect guild masters to buy everything themselves.
Im a guildmaster and I bought mundus stones and stuff for our guildhouse with rl money ages ago.
Send us the crowns back lol0 -
kah✭✭✭jad11mumbler wrote: »Y'all need to know what temporary means.
That said, the crates have been temporary non giftable for 6 months now on PCNA.
Disabling gifting entirely is a much bigger revenue loss for ZoS though, so they'll probably get all hands on for it.
Either way maybe give them at least a full work week.
Everyone crying about the apocalypse hours after they made the change.
I 100% get where you're coming from, as it can sometimes feel like people object (often loudly and sometimes obnoxiously) to any changes, but as you've pointed out yourself, it has been 6 months since they disabled crate gifting. It's understandable that there's this huge upset. It's not really crying about the apocalypse so much as pointing out troubling trends with the company.2 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SaintJohnHM wrote: »They consistently let game-stopping bugs exist for weeks at a time, hemorrhaging players who give up in frustration. We have no faith they'll fix the problems soon, even if it benefits them.
They may not have the manpower to get to all of them quickly, or they may be complicated and take awhile to figure out.Edited by SilverBride on September 5, 2023 4:37PMPCNA0 -
loveeso✭✭✭✭SaintJohnHM wrote: »Since the system is so broken and they don't seem to have the ability to fix it, they need to make mundus stones and aetherial wells and trial dummies etc purchasable via gold in game. They can't expect guild masters to buy everything themselves.
You are absolutely right. I did end up buying everything myself. Apart from gifting/donating, there should be an option for "lending" house items.MMOs: ESO (PS & PC), GW2 (😍) & Souls/Elden (😍)1