Control Gold moving between accounts

XSTRONG

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

I have over 50 accounts. i move many millions of gold back and forth on an ongoing basis for personal reasons.

in the end though, it wont matter, because there is an easy circumvention to what you propose. gold sellers and others would just create there own guilds and funnel money through them. it will slow things down but not stop them


on top of that the real issue is likely not what occurs in game between legitimate players, but in how crowns are sourced from IRL currencies, and then exploited by gold sellers and fraudsters for gain.

this is pure speculation on my end but the issue here is a stop measure to stop the unwanted activity and attention from gold sellers. failing to address it can have real world consequences since everything from currency hacks and stolen payment information is used by many of these sites to source gold, and allowing that to occur can land ZOS in trouble.

Wow you have over 50 accounts, i try but cant really see any reason why a regular ESO player would have over 50 accounts.

endgamesmug

XSTRONG wrote: »

endgamesmug wrote: »

So i could be banned for moving 20 million gold somewhere else? 😑

If zos thinks your Green then i guess not

Yeah i havent had to move any in ages, and nothing nefarious on my end. From time to time i would buy a new account when the price was right, kinda encouraged my hoarding for awhile 😆 but atleast half of that sort of behaviour has been taken care of thankfully. Because these days raiding is such a big focus in the community and i have no interest, i use my other accounts to grow something new and to experiment and of course whatever comes out of the levelling process will be useful for my crafting account 😁

Elsonso

XSTRONG wrote: »

Problem is not players selling crowns, the problem is players selling gold.

As it is now players can shuffle Gold back and forth and move huge amount of gold from an account to another account.

If not from buying in guildstore or putting in guildbank, it should be pretty easy for Zos to have a Max amount of gold you can move from 1 account to another without being monitored

What makes you think they don't already have a level at which they check up on the accounts to see what is going on?

XSTRONG

Elsonso wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Problem is not players selling crowns, the problem is players selling gold.

As it is now players can shuffle Gold back and forth and move huge amount of gold from an account to another account.

If not from buying in guildstore or putting in guildbank, it should be pretty easy for Zos to have a Max amount of gold you can move from 1 account to another without being monitored

What makes you think they don't already have a level at which they check up on the accounts to see what is going on?

Me thinking is because there a [snip] load of gold selling, bot farming that then makes gold from bot farmed mats etc etc

Edit: I see players that sells bot farmed mats on ps5eu, shouldnt Zos?

[edited to remove quote]

Jaraal

XSTRONG wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Define "huge."
Because if I start getting tagged for moving a daily log-in reward of 100,000 from an alt account to my main account, I'm going nuclear.

I think Zos knows what amounts to monitor or not, but moving 100k shouldnt be a problem lol.

With the AI we have now it would be pretty easy to detect some suspect behavior, why would a lvl 10 account move 20 million gold?

What? I can go farm something that sells for 20 mil right now on a new account, why should I be punished for selling it?

Did i mention something about selling high value items? No

What am I supposed to with the gold? You said if I "move" it I should be flagged by ZOS.

Elsonso

XSTRONG wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Problem is not players selling crowns, the problem is players selling gold.

As it is now players can shuffle Gold back and forth and move huge amount of gold from an account to another account.

If not from buying in guildstore or putting in guildbank, it should be pretty easy for Zos to have a Max amount of gold you can move from 1 account to another without being monitored

What makes you think they don't already have a level at which they check up on the accounts to see what is going on?

Me thinking is because there a [snip] load of gold selling, bot farming that then makes gold from bot farmed mats etc etc

Edit: I see players that sells bot farmed mats on ps5eu, shouldnt Zos?

Seeing and acting are two different things. [snip]

[edited for conspiracy theory & to remove quote]

XSTRONG

Jaraal wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Define "huge."
Because if I start getting tagged for moving a daily log-in reward of 100,000 from an alt account to my main account, I'm going nuclear.

I think Zos knows what amounts to monitor or not, but moving 100k shouldnt be a problem lol.

With the AI we have now it would be pretty easy to detect some suspect behavior, why would a lvl 10 account move 20 million gold?

What? I can go farm something that sells for 20 mil right now on a new account, why should I be punished for selling it?

Did i mention something about selling high value items? No

What am I supposed to with the gold? You said if I "move" it I should be flagged by ZOS.

Ever heard of gold sink holes? Every game has them except for eso

XSTRONG

Elsonso wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Elsonso wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Problem is not players selling crowns, the problem is players selling gold.

As it is now players can shuffle Gold back and forth and move huge amount of gold from an account to another account.

If not from buying in guildstore or putting in guildbank, it should be pretty easy for Zos to have a Max amount of gold you can move from 1 account to another without being monitored

What makes you think they don't already have a level at which they check up on the accounts to see what is going on?

Me thinking is because there a [snip] load of gold selling, bot farming that then makes gold from bot farmed mats etc etc

Edit: I see players that sells bot farmed mats on ps5eu, shouldnt Zos?

Seeing and acting are two different things. [snip]

ZOS cannot do anything about gold in game without upset players but ... maybe upsetting players is a gold mine

Thats what they think

[edited to remove quote]

Katheriah

disintegr8 wrote: »

Katheriah wrote: »

I move multiple millions around each week, because the guild cap is 5 and I have an alt account for trading in good trader spots. Atm sales are a bit lower, because less people are playing, but I move up to 20 mil a week to my main account. Would not appreciate if that would get me banned.

But on the other hand... ZOS now took away my reason to farm and trade, so whatever.

Outside of hiring guild traders or gold hoarding, why do you need to be moving that sort of gold around? If it's gold hoarding, it doesn't need to be moved around, unless you are buying/selling crown store items.

I indeed used the gold to buy crownstore items, but mainly on my main account. The other accounts have a few cosmetics, but nothing too wild. The main account is a shiny fair attraction though, because I like it.

XSTRONG

KV_Tootn wrote: »

[snip]

I trust Zos, if they think hes worth looking at thats a Positive thing, they trying to get to gold sellers/bot farmers

[edited to remove quote]

irswat

When I created my alt account i moved a hundred million gold from my main to my alt account. People do move gold for legitimate reasons.

DrNukenstein

People want gold gear, and it's like not worth getting legitimately.

They really should fix the buy gold machine before penalizing/monitoring people for keeping up with the arms race.

Amottica

XSTRONG wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Define "huge."
Because if I start getting tagged for moving a daily log-in reward of 100,000 from an alt account to my main account, I'm going nuclear.

I think Zos knows what amounts to monitor or not, but moving 100k shouldnt be a problem lol.

With the AI we have now it would be pretty easy to detect some suspect behavior, why would a lvl 10 account move 20 million gold?

What? I can go farm something that sells for 20 mil right now on a new account, why should I be punished for selling it?

Did i mention something about selling high value items? No

@XSTRONG
The suggestion would require including the sale of such high-value items so they have a very valid question that needs an answer if the suggestion is to receive serious consideration.

Otherwise, it is absolutely pointless to try to control gold moving between accounts. It is really simple, "oh we cannot trade this much gold in this manner so let me sell you a piece of chromium plating for 20 million gold" (or whatever amount is needed).

Linked below is proof as the SS in the OP shows 200 elegant linings selling for 10 million gold. That is 50k a piece. LOL. So yea.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493031/shady-sales-gold-laundering-or-mm-ttc-sabotage

XSTRONG

Amottica wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Define "huge."
Because if I start getting tagged for moving a daily log-in reward of 100,000 from an alt account to my main account, I'm going nuclear.

I think Zos knows what amounts to monitor or not, but moving 100k shouldnt be a problem lol.

With the AI we have now it would be pretty easy to detect some suspect behavior, why would a lvl 10 account move 20 million gold?

What? I can go farm something that sells for 20 mil right now on a new account, why should I be punished for selling it?

Did i mention something about selling high value items? No

@XSTRONG
The suggestion would require including the sale of such high-value items so they have a very valid question that needs an answer if the suggestion is to receive serious consideration.

Otherwise, it is absolutely pointless to try to control gold moving between accounts. It is really simple, "oh we cannot trade this much gold in this manner so let me sell you a piece of chromium plating for 20 million gold" (or whatever amount is needed).

Linked below is proof as the SS in the OP shows 200 elegant linings selling for 10 million gold. That is 50k a piece. LOL. So yea.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493031/shady-sales-gold-laundering-or-mm-ttc-sabotage

Yeah its not super hard to control sales that stick out from the rules you as dev set, you dont need a Human to control that.

Im not saying they should stop those sales but they can be high lighted for many reasons.

Example a lvl 10 account moves to much gold from mail, trading or whatever.

Amottica

XSTRONG wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Define "huge."
Because if I start getting tagged for moving a daily log-in reward of 100,000 from an alt account to my main account, I'm going nuclear.

I think Zos knows what amounts to monitor or not, but moving 100k shouldnt be a problem lol.

With the AI we have now it would be pretty easy to detect some suspect behavior, why would a lvl 10 account move 20 million gold?

What? I can go farm something that sells for 20 mil right now on a new account, why should I be punished for selling it?

Did i mention something about selling high value items? No

@XSTRONG
The suggestion would require including the sale of such high-value items so they have a very valid question that needs an answer if the suggestion is to receive serious consideration.

Otherwise, it is absolutely pointless to try to control gold moving between accounts. It is really simple, "oh we cannot trade this much gold in this manner so let me sell you a piece of chromium plating for 20 million gold" (or whatever amount is needed).

Linked below is proof as the SS in the OP shows 200 elegant linings selling for 10 million gold. That is 50k a piece. LOL. So yea.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493031/shady-sales-gold-laundering-or-mm-ttc-sabotage

Yeah its not super hard to control sales that stick out from the rules you as dev set, you dont need a Human to control that.

Im not saying they should stop those sales but they can be high lighted for many reasons.

Example a lvl 10 account moves to much gold from mail, trading or whatever.

But you dismissed selling a high-value item was not part of your discussion yet you now acknowledge that it has to be monitored.

The issue and reason why such a simple suggestion would not work is that this is a constantly changing situation. Zenimax creates a means to find and block a transaction or trade of a certain dollar amount and the gold sellers and illicit traders adjust and use means to get around that roadblock until a new roadblock is put into place. These people are not idiots.

It is just not that simple. It would be great if it was.

XSTRONG

Amottica wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Define "huge."
Because if I start getting tagged for moving a daily log-in reward of 100,000 from an alt account to my main account, I'm going nuclear.

I think Zos knows what amounts to monitor or not, but moving 100k shouldnt be a problem lol.

With the AI we have now it would be pretty easy to detect some suspect behavior, why would a lvl 10 account move 20 million gold?

What? I can go farm something that sells for 20 mil right now on a new account, why should I be punished for selling it?

Did i mention something about selling high value items? No

@XSTRONG
The suggestion would require including the sale of such high-value items so they have a very valid question that needs an answer if the suggestion is to receive serious consideration.

Otherwise, it is absolutely pointless to try to control gold moving between accounts. It is really simple, "oh we cannot trade this much gold in this manner so let me sell you a piece of chromium plating for 20 million gold" (or whatever amount is needed).

Linked below is proof as the SS in the OP shows 200 elegant linings selling for 10 million gold. That is 50k a piece. LOL. So yea.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/493031/shady-sales-gold-laundering-or-mm-ttc-sabotage

Yeah its not super hard to control sales that stick out from the rules you as dev set, you dont need a Human to control that.

Im not saying they should stop those sales but they can be high lighted for many reasons.

Example a lvl 10 account moves to much gold from mail, trading or whatever.

But you dismissed selling a high-value item was not part of your discussion yet you now acknowledge that it has to be monitored.

The issue and reason why such a simple suggestion would not work is that this is a constantly changing situation. Zenimax creates a means to find and block a transaction or trade of a certain dollar amount and the gold sellers and illicit traders adjust and use means to get around that roadblock until a new roadblock is put into place. These people are not idiots.

It is just not that simple. It would be great if it was.

It is simple Zos can put in how many roadblocks they want that are not noticeable for a regular player, they can look at big gold movement between accounts especially in low lvl accounts.

If someone sell 1 potato for 50 million well they need to start looking at that.

Sheezabeast

You would have very unhappy GMs that bid on traders....

belial5221_ESO

There's a few things that could help,and by no means perfect.They aren't detailed and could use work,but here's a few things:

1)Stop allowing gold transfers outside the guild traders,unless it's within your own account.This would stop scammers,and false flagging people as scammers.They would probably need to increase how many guild traders in zones,and/or increase guild player capacities(also up limit on how many members needed for trader).

2)Have a system setup on serverside,similar to MM and use a median sales amount as a average,and any item over a certain % of that price is not allowed to be listed.This will curb overpriced items used to trade large amounts of gold,reduce artificially increasing prices too fast,and no more 10 million gold potatoes.

freespirit

@XSTRONG you keep mentioning restricting gold movements from low lvl accounts.....

I have three accounts, my main, my husband's and a new Epic one, atm I use the last two mostly for extra trading spots, they are both below level 50 and neither has any champion points

Should I be banned for sending their earnings to my main account? I supply those accounts with the items to sell, is this also something that should be flagged?

Unfortunately the way ESO works I believe we are way, way past any really workable restrictions on gold movement, I am by no means the only multiple account owner, nor part of a minority group.

XSTRONG

freespirit wrote: »

@XSTRONG you keep mentioning restricting gold movements from low lvl accounts.....

I have three accounts, my main, my husband's and a new Epic one, atm I use the last two mostly for extra trading spots, they are both below level 50 and neither has any champion points

Should I be banned for sending their earnings to my main account? I supply those accounts with the items to sell, is this also something that should be flagged?

Unfortunately the way ESO works I believe we are way, way past any really workable restrictions on gold movement, I am by no means the only multiple account owner, nor part of a minority group.

I use extra accounts for trading spots also and transfer their gold to my main.

And no I dont think you should be banned I dont even know who you are lol

zaria

XSTRONG wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Define "huge."
Because if I start getting tagged for moving a daily log-in reward of 100,000 from an alt account to my main account, I'm going nuclear.

I think Zos knows what amounts to monitor or not, but moving 100k shouldnt be a problem lol.

With the AI we have now it would be pretty easy to detect some suspect behavior, why would a lvl 10 account move 20 million gold?

What? I can go farm something that sells for 20 mil right now on a new account, why should I be punished for selling it?

Did i mention something about selling high value items? No

Few things are high value item unless you look at the average sell value at guild stores. 4 gold jewelry tempers was over an million at PC-EU, the npc vendor pays couple of gold for them. Worse for the most expensive furniture blueprint.

And we are not talking about very competent peoples here, did finder work this undaunted event? I did pure guild runs the first the first 3-4 days so yes for me, but for people puging day one? If so it only took them +5 years.

XSTRONG

Sheezabeast wrote: »

You would have very unhappy GMs that bid on traders....

Depends

Mesite

It's a game and you can play as you like.

I don't think we need any unnecessary rules that stop 'playing as you like' from happening. I'm sure Zos has better things to do with their time than police rules too. They can use the money they would spend on the money police to hire extra Devs to design cool amour sets. And the next new class or skill line.

XSTRONG

Mesite wrote: »

It's a game and you can play as you like.

I don't think we need any unnecessary rules that stop 'playing as you like' from happening. I'm sure Zos has better things to do with their time than police rules too. They can use the money they would spend on the money police to hire extra Devs to design cool amour sets. And the next new class or skill line.

Ok then people should stop complain about crown gifting and bots

Tia413

I was thinking of starting a 2nd game account in the next day or 2 and transferring some of the stuff and my gold from my original account (made back in 2016) to my new account, so that I could semi-retire my original account.

But now you people have me thinking that may not be the greatest of ideas as of right now.

I have never gotten banned on any game I have ever played since I started gaming in 2009, and I don't want this game to be the game I get my 1st ban on either.

Hmm...Decisions, Decisions, Decisions.

TaSheen

Tia413 wrote: »

I was thinking of starting a 2nd game account in the next day or 2 and transferring some of the stuff and my gold from my original account (made back in 2016) to my new account, so that I could semi-retire my original account.

But now you people have me thinking that may not be the greatest of ideas as of right now.

I have never gotten banned on any game I have ever played since I started gaming in 2009, and I don't want this game to be the game I get my 1st ban on either.

Hmm...Decisions, Decisions, Decisions.

I've transferred gold between my three accounts for years. I can prove they're my own accounts (should I be asked). I haven't been asked to prove it, and nothing has ever been said/done when I've transferred gold in quantity (a couple of times, millions - but mostly just hundred thousands) between them. I've also gifted stuff around my accounts (before gifting became defunct and suspicious of course).

As long as you can provide provenance for relationship between your accounts and you, you should be just fine, - even in today's "very suspicious forum posting atmosphere".

Tia413

I retracted this post.

wolfie1.0.

1

XSTRONG wrote: »

Mesite wrote: »

It's a game and you can play as you like.

I don't think we need any unnecessary rules that stop 'playing as you like' from happening. I'm sure Zos has better things to do with their time than police rules too. They can use the money they would spend on the money police to hire extra Devs to design cool amour sets. And the next new class or skill line.

Ok then people should stop complain about crown gifting and bots

Not many people where complaining about crown gifting. ZOS was the one that decided to take action because it impacted their bottom line.

The issue with locking crown gifting stems from issues with IRL payment systems. Addressing and restricting in game transfers of gold is like trying to focus on treating symptoms rather than the actual disease causing said symptoms.

Ultimately, though gold is the main medium of exchange of goods and services in eso and restricting the transfer of that item will just result in a new medium being created. For example, if zos decided to drop a hammer and restrict the direct transfer of more than 1 million gold between player accounts in direct trades, mail, etc. Then instead of asking for payment in gold for items I would instead ask players to pay me in dreugh wax or other improvement items. Others would so the same. Thus wax or Columbine, or other materials would become the new currency. And third party sellers would just adjust to that. Because it wouldn't address the underlying problems, just the symptoms.