Control Gold moving between accounts

XSTRONG

Problem is not players selling crowns, the problem is players selling gold.

As it is now players can shuffle Gold back and forth and move huge amount of gold from an account to another account.

If not from buying in guildstore or putting in guildbank, it should be pretty easy for Zos to have a Max amount of gold you can move from 1 account to another without being monitored

wilykcat

Maybe set a max limit to gold being traded or exchanged. It will automatically reset after 24 hours once reached limit.

Grizzbeorn

Define "huge."
Because if I start getting tagged for moving a daily log-in reward of 100,000 from an alt account to my main account, I'm going nuclear.

XSTRONG

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Define "huge."
Because if I start getting tagged for moving a daily log-in reward of 100,000 from an alt account to my main account, I'm going nuclear.

I think Zos knows what amounts to monitor or not, but moving 100k shouldnt be a problem lol.

With the AI we have now it would be pretty easy to detect some suspect behavior, why would a lvl 10 account move 20 million gold?

Tandor

There could be a different limit applied to transfers between accounts using the same e.g. credit card for transactions and transfers between unrelated accounts.

Amottica

XSTRONG wrote: »

Problem is not players selling crowns, the problem is players selling gold.

As it is now players can shuffle Gold back and forth and move huge amount of gold from an account to another account.

If not from buying in guildstore or putting in guildbank, it should be pretty easy for Zos to have a Max amount of gold you can move from 1 account to another without being monitored

If this concern the freeze on crown gifting? If so, are you aware of the specifics of what the fraudulent activity is?

I ask that because if it is about the crown gifting then one needs to know what the root issue is to formulate a solution. Putting a cap on how much can be traded would not prevent fraud if they can have payments made over several days as GW2 does. It can also reduce the crown value that can be traded but does not prevent fraud.

Speculation does not solve anything.

freespirit

Ok so how about this......

I have just finished up the judging and results of a Housing Contest run across two of my Guilds, the total prize money was nine million gold split across the first three placings.

I mailed the gold along with a thank you message, if gold mailing was restricted I would've had to wait to catch those people online to give them their prizes in person by trade and tbh how is that any better? That can be abused just as easily in my opinion!

boi_anachronism_

Ma dude. Some items in the game value in the 8 figure range.

TaSheen

Yeah, I routinely move a lot of gold between my three accounts - just depends who needs an extra million on a given day (housing's expensive....) so I would definitely NOT be happy about some artificial limit.

Grizzbeorn

XSTRONG wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Define "huge."
Because if I start getting tagged for moving a daily log-in reward of 100,000 from an alt account to my main account, I'm going nuclear.

I think Zos knows what amounts to monitor or not, but moving 100k shouldnt be a problem lol.

With the AI we have now it would be pretty easy to detect some suspect behavior, why would a lvl 10 account move 20 million gold?

I'm not a player who regularly has millions to move, and I've never had double-digit millions in my account at one time (I think I had 7 million one time; a few years ago), so if it's multiple millions being suggested as "huge," then I'm ok with that.
(Though, I would much rather there not be any limit, since that can get innocent people caught in ZOS's fishing nets.)

The occasional 100k daily log-in rewards are pretty much the largest quantity I've ever sent from one account to another.
I could see myself sending a few hundred thousand as a gift, if I ever had that much on-hand at the same time a friend needed it, but that wouldn't come anywhere near to being a regular thing.

Amottica

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Ma dude. Some items in the game value in the 8 figure range.

The seller could just require payments to be broken up and such high-value items would not be sold via the trader system.

The thing is, there is no set dollar amount that is relevant to resolving any issue that may be involved since those interested in committing fraud will find a way to work around such a simplistic control.

But again, if this has to do with the fraudulent activity with gifting, one needs to know what the issue is in order to suggest a worthy solution. If this is about that issue then OP needs to state what the root problem is for us to weigh in on the suggested solution.

boi_anachronism_

Amottica wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Ma dude. Some items in the game value in the 8 figure range.

The seller could just require payments to be broken up and such high-value items would not be sold via the trader system.

The thing is, there is no set dollar amount that is relevant to resolving any issue that may be involved since those interested in committing fraud will find a way to work around such a simplistic control.

But again, if this has to do with the fraudulent activity with gifting, one needs to know what the issue is in order to suggest a worthy solution. If this is about that issue then OP needs to state what the root problem is for us to weigh in on the suggested solution.

I rhink in general most players would find that to be a huge hassle.

That said i agree. We dont even know the full scope of the issue so these suggestions are kind of a shot in the dark..

Tandor

If people are routinely circulating multiple millions around the game whether as guild prizes, transfers to alts, or gifts to in-game friends, then that suggests the problem is with the economy rather than with gifting restrictions.

Amottica

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Ma dude. Some items in the game value in the 8 figure range.

The seller could just require payments to be broken up and such high-value items would not be sold via the trader system.

The thing is, there is no set dollar amount that is relevant to resolving any issue that may be involved since those interested in committing fraud will find a way to work around such a simplistic control.

But again, if this has to do with the fraudulent activity with gifting, one needs to know what the issue is in order to suggest a worthy solution. If this is about that issue then OP needs to state what the root problem is for us to weigh in on the suggested solution.

I rhink in general most players would find that to be a huge hassle.

That said i agree. We dont even know the full scope of the issue so these suggestions are kind of a shot in the dark..

It is a hassle but I know of people who have done this in GW2 to avoid the trader fees.

endgamesmug

So i could be banned for moving 20 million gold somewhere else? 😑

EF321

XSTRONG wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Define "huge."
Because if I start getting tagged for moving a daily log-in reward of 100,000 from an alt account to my main account, I'm going nuclear.

I think Zos knows what amounts to monitor or not, but moving 100k shouldnt be a problem lol.

With the AI we have now it would be pretty easy to detect some suspect behavior, why would a lvl 10 account move 20 million gold?

Because it's my other account that isn't starting over from scratch?

Katheriah

I move multiple millions around each week, because the guild cap is 5 and I have an alt account for trading in good trader spots. Atm sales are a bit lower, because less people are playing, but I move up to 20 mil a week to my main account. Would not appreciate if that would get me banned.

But on the other hand... ZOS now took away my reason to farm and trade, so whatever.

disintegr8

Katheriah wrote: »

I move multiple millions around each week, because the guild cap is 5 and I have an alt account for trading in good trader spots. Atm sales are a bit lower, because less people are playing, but I move up to 20 mil a week to my main account. Would not appreciate if that would get me banned.

But on the other hand... ZOS now took away my reason to farm and trade, so whatever.

Outside of hiring guild traders or gold hoarding, why do you need to be moving that sort of gold around? If it's gold hoarding, it doesn't need to be moved around, unless you are buying/selling crown store items.

FeedbackOnly

You get a gift from person A but mail gold to person B. Person B is the second account of same user

That's probably part of the issue starting from World Crown Exchange https://discord.gg/ZRvAHF8

Then a quick look you can make profits selling gold directly. I saw someone selling 3000 gold .. for $6.20....

We will unfortunately probably need a direct exchange system if I had to guess. I just hope it gets fixed

wolfie1.0.

I have over 50 accounts. i move many millions of gold back and forth on an ongoing basis for personal reasons.

in the end though, it wont matter, because there is an easy circumvention to what you propose. gold sellers and others would just create there own guilds and funnel money through them. it will slow things down but not stop them


on top of that the real issue is likely not what occurs in game between legitimate players, but in how crowns are sourced from IRL currencies, and then exploited by gold sellers and fraudsters for gain.

this is pure speculation on my end but the issue here is a stop measure to stop the unwanted activity and attention from gold sellers. failing to address it can have real world consequences since everything from currency hacks and stolen payment information is used by many of these sites to source gold, and allowing that to occur can land ZOS in trouble.

Ragnarok0130

disintegr8 wrote: »

Katheriah wrote: »

I move multiple millions around each week, because the guild cap is 5 and I have an alt account for trading in good trader spots. Atm sales are a bit lower, because less people are playing, but I move up to 20 mil a week to my main account. Would not appreciate if that would get me banned.

But on the other hand... ZOS now took away my reason to farm and trade, so whatever.

Outside of hiring guild traders or gold hoarding, why do you need to be moving that sort of gold around? If it's gold hoarding, it doesn't need to be moved around, unless you are buying/selling crown store items.

Why does anyone need to justify moving around or spending what they earned around at all? The OP's suggestion is a solution in search of a problem since he has no way to back up his hypothesis that the problem is gold selling instead of crown selling or that anything else is the real issue since ZoS has not disclosed anything about the nature of the "fraudulent activity" they have halted crown gifting in response to. Gold is the defacto currency of the ESO economy and any limitation on players using the currency they earn would be a net negative for what little economy ESO currently possesses.

Vulkunne

XSTRONG wrote: »

Problem is not players selling crowns, the problem is players selling gold.

As it is now players can shuffle Gold back and forth and move huge amount of gold from an account to another account.

If not from buying in guildstore or putting in guildbank, it should be pretty easy for Zos to have a Max amount of gold you can move from 1 account to another without being monitored

No they already tried this back before One Tam. Lead to many people being banned unnecessary and was miserable for everyone involved.

If we did this essentially this would spread the cancer from the Crown Store lockdowns to then not being able to transfer gold as well, which would create a new problem and just cause more misery for regular players.

sarahthes

XSTRONG wrote: »

Problem is not players selling crowns, the problem is players selling gold.

As it is now players can shuffle Gold back and forth and move huge amount of gold from an account to another account.

If not from buying in guildstore or putting in guildbank, it should be pretty easy for Zos to have a Max amount of gold you can move from 1 account to another without being monitored

It already doesn't let you move more than 44m in a single transfer.

NoSoup

Unfortuntely solutions like this won't stop gold selling and will only inconvenience the day to day players and active guilds with big prizes.

If you remove sending gold through mail gold sellers will just use a fake guild to make the transaction, meet in person and get you to transfer something or have you cod something to them. Eitherway, because there are legitimate reasons to send millions whether it be through guild store, character to character trading or cod it becomes near impossible to stop the flow of "sold gold".

Back in the day transactions of gold for a few million would red flag in the server, problem is the economy has got so out of whack that a few million is a drop in the ocean and can't be red flagged anymore cause the red flags would be overwhelming. The morrowind 6th house banner sells for anywhere from 100 - 300,000,000. It's the fact that there is that much gold in the economy that has created this problem.

Jaraal

XSTRONG wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Define "huge."
Because if I start getting tagged for moving a daily log-in reward of 100,000 from an alt account to my main account, I'm going nuclear.

I think Zos knows what amounts to monitor or not, but moving 100k shouldnt be a problem lol.

With the AI we have now it would be pretty easy to detect some suspect behavior, why would a lvl 10 account move 20 million gold?

What? I can go farm something that sells for 20 mil right now on a new account, why should I be punished for selling it?

disintegr8

Ragnarok0130 wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

Katheriah wrote: »

I move multiple millions around each week, because the guild cap is 5 and I have an alt account for trading in good trader spots. Atm sales are a bit lower, because less people are playing, but I move up to 20 mil a week to my main account. Would not appreciate if that would get me banned.

But on the other hand... ZOS now took away my reason to farm and trade, so whatever.

Outside of hiring guild traders or gold hoarding, why do you need to be moving that sort of gold around? If it's gold hoarding, it doesn't need to be moved around, unless you are buying/selling crown store items.

Why does anyone need to justify moving around or spending what they earned around at all? The OP's suggestion is a solution in search of a problem since he has no way to back up his hypothesis that the problem is gold selling instead of crown selling or that anything else is the real issue since ZoS has not disclosed anything about the nature of the "fraudulent activity" they have halted crown gifting in response to. Gold is the defacto currency of the ESO economy and any limitation on players using the currency they earn would be a net negative for what little economy ESO currently possesses.

The old 'because I can or want to' reason, nice.

Elrond87

wolfie1.0. wrote: »

I have over 50 accounts. i move many millions of gold back and forth on an ongoing basis for personal reasons.

in the end though, it wont matter, because there is an easy circumvention to what you propose. gold sellers and others would just create there own guilds and funnel money through them. it will slow things down but not stop them


on top of that the real issue is likely not what occurs in game between legitimate players, but in how crowns are sourced from IRL currencies, and then exploited by gold sellers and fraudsters for gain.

this is pure speculation on my end but the issue here is a stop measure to stop the unwanted activity and attention from gold sellers. failing to address it can have real world consequences since everything from currency hacks and stolen payment information is used by many of these sites to source gold, and allowing that to occur can land ZOS in trouble.

only a mere 50 accounts pffft rookie numbers

hiyde

They can set whatever amount they want as a trigger - as long as it results in an investigation with action only being taken against verified gold sellers.

But If I give a member a 20 Mill raffle prize and find my account suspended "while they investigate"...or if they set some arbitrary daily trading limit...that ain't gonna work.

Redguards_Revenge

Yup, I made a guess as to what might have happened. NOTE THIS IS A GUESS.

Invest into accounts on eso+ when crown gifting was allowed (not sure when that was). Hold the crowns a couple of years. These people probably were going to sell the accounts with the crowns on them, but then they saw that it was more profitable to sell the crowns for gold. So long as they made over $15/month per account, that was free money. They probably did the gold sales on a burner account. If they profited $10 on 1000 accounts that's $10k per month. Get about 100 people to work on 10 accounts each in a 3rd world country, and that's a career.

Since these were ESO+ accounts, they could also give their services to people who needed to farm items....an extra person for the roll. Then get gold from that to sell as well. They'll look like normal players. Money laundering at it's finest.

Now that the economy is inflated, they are probably making more money because people are less likely to pay for sub or the crowns.

Remember every month with eso+ ZoS gives 1650 crowns.

The other thing is they might not have to invest into accounts. Instead, they might be buying accounts from people who quit and have all those crowns on them. So now ZoS isn't guaranteed any future revenue until this foreign seller burns through all those accounts.

I've played MMOs for over 20 years I've seen almost all the shady money-making schemes. I only pay for the entrance to the game. Nothing more nothing less. I will never understand the fascination buying crowns or the crates. Especially since I've been through many game closures and seen everything go away.

XSTRONG

Jaraal wrote: »

XSTRONG wrote: »

Grizzbeorn wrote: »

Define "huge."
Because if I start getting tagged for moving a daily log-in reward of 100,000 from an alt account to my main account, I'm going nuclear.

I think Zos knows what amounts to monitor or not, but moving 100k shouldnt be a problem lol.

With the AI we have now it would be pretty easy to detect some suspect behavior, why would a lvl 10 account move 20 million gold?

What? I can go farm something that sells for 20 mil right now on a new account, why should I be punished for selling it?

Did i mention something about selling high value items? No

XSTRONG

endgamesmug wrote: »

So i could be banned for moving 20 million gold somewhere else? 😑

If zos thinks your Green then i guess not