proposal to change the combat system

Artem_gig

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

people are saying that TESO with cooldowns would turn into WoW. Why all of a sudden? For you, apart from all other MMOs, only WoW exists? Have you tried at least playing single-player games? When I was talking about fighting with cooldowns and mixing them with light attacks, probably the closest example is tes blades (except that it has a targeted fighting game, due to the conditions of the game on the phone). I suggested leaving non target and doing approximately the same as Tes Blades, but with the conditions teso. And a few words about the second panel. Tell me why you need a second panel when it is used not for the sake of a second weapon, but for the sake of buffs? With the same success, you can simply remove the second panel from the game, and make 10 skills on the first panel. Nothing will change at the same time.

What are you even talking about? Bar swap does let you use two different weapons, including the skills for those specific weapons.

For example, a common PVP setup is Detro/Restro, with Crushing Shock (Destro Skill) on the front bar and Radiating Regen (Restro Skill) on the back bar, Among countless other examples of utilizing multiple weapon types in builds.

Not to mention, console players literally don't have 10 buttons to push to remove the back bar.

And cooldowns would be atrocious.

All in all, it sounds like maybe this game isn't for you, which is fine.

You don't use spam skills on both panels, the second panel is reserved for buffs. Yes, you use the second type of weapon, but not as a weapon, but as a buff. You can't fight with daggers, and then immediately switch to two-handed and not lose damage. Because obviously the two-handed is reserved for the "Momentum" skill, and not for hitting with this sword. You are right that with a healing staff, you really use a healing staff. But it's still a buff, not another way to deal damage.

...?

My back bar has weapon skills on it, like Wall of Elements for example, or Twin Slashes and Blade Cloak. Or even Whirlwind as an execute ability backbarred with a two hand front bar.

Even bow, where backbar is skills like Snipe and Poison Arrow and front bar is Two hand or dual wield skills.

Just because you don't use two bars in a meaningful way doesn't mean that they cannot be used properly. (Also, none of the skills I listed that plenty of people use on their back bars are "buff" skills)

This does not make the back panel capable of dealing damage without losing in dps. In the end, you still have to switch to the front panel to continue to apply acceptable DPS. And only at the right moments, switch to the back panel for a few seconds to squeeze buffs /debuffs and DoTs

jaws343

Artem_gig wrote: »

And stop writing to me that this game is not for me, I went through all the single parts, starting from Tes Arena and ending with the relatively recent tes blades. So why should I suddenly stop playing teso? It's just that for me, the teso action was extremely faded compared to the singles (Although even in them fights are bad, but at least you can feel the struggle). And it's not normal for me that just one *** goblin from tes arena causes me more emotions than a whole bunch of NPCs from teso, which I'll spend half a second killing and immediately forget.

I think anyone coming in an proposing sweeping changes to the fundamental combat of a game because they don't like or don't understand it is a very clear case of that game not being for that person.

The game being part of Elder Scrolls is irrelevant really. I never played blades because I wasn't interested in a mobile game. I didn't come to the blades community and tell them the game they enjoy would be better if it were something different. I just didn't play the game. Plenty of people do this with countless games.

Artem_gig wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

people are saying that TESO with cooldowns would turn into WoW. Why all of a sudden? For you, apart from all other MMOs, only WoW exists? Have you tried at least playing single-player games? When I was talking about fighting with cooldowns and mixing them with light attacks, probably the closest example is tes blades (except that it has a targeted fighting game, due to the conditions of the game on the phone). I suggested leaving non target and doing approximately the same as Tes Blades, but with the conditions teso. And a few words about the second panel. Tell me why you need a second panel when it is used not for the sake of a second weapon, but for the sake of buffs? With the same success, you can simply remove the second panel from the game, and make 10 skills on the first panel. Nothing will change at the same time.

What are you even talking about? Bar swap does let you use two different weapons, including the skills for those specific weapons.

For example, a common PVP setup is Detro/Restro, with Crushing Shock (Destro Skill) on the front bar and Radiating Regen (Restro Skill) on the back bar, Among countless other examples of utilizing multiple weapon types in builds.

Not to mention, console players literally don't have 10 buttons to push to remove the back bar.

And cooldowns would be atrocious.

All in all, it sounds like maybe this game isn't for you, which is fine.

You don't use spam skills on both panels, the second panel is reserved for buffs. Yes, you use the second type of weapon, but not as a weapon, but as a buff. You can't fight with daggers, and then immediately switch to two-handed and not lose damage. Because obviously the two-handed is reserved for the "Momentum" skill, and not for hitting with this sword. You are right that with a healing staff, you really use a healing staff. But it's still a buff, not another way to deal damage.

...?

My back bar has weapon skills on it, like Wall of Elements for example, or Twin Slashes and Blade Cloak. Or even Whirlwind as an execute ability backbarred with a two hand front bar.

Even bow, where backbar is skills like Snipe and Poison Arrow and front bar is Two hand or dual wield skills.

Just because you don't use two bars in a meaningful way doesn't mean that they cannot be used properly. (Also, none of the skills I listed that plenty of people use on their back bars are "buff" skills)

This does not make the back panel capable of dealing damage without losing in dps. In the end, you still have to switch to the front panel to continue to apply acceptable DPS. And only at the right moments, switch to the back panel for a few seconds to squeeze buffs /debuffs and DoTs

Literally the back bar, including the damage from it, is what makes up most DPS for players. Like honestly, people mostly put dots on the back bar that make up a ton of DPS for a parse. Not to mention, for PVP, back bar skills also make up a decent amount of damage.

Even so, having a spot for defensive skills isn't some problem that needs to be solved. Even if only buffs and non damaging skills were on a back bar, that doesn't somehow warrant its removal. Just don't use the back bar if you dislike it so much.

Necrotech_Master

Blencathra wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Blencathra wrote: »

And there is me just wanting a single button to switch between the front and back bars.
If anyone knows an add-on for this now THAT would be such a help.

there is? on PC at least with keyboard the default bar swap is `, but i rebound it to a button on my mouse

That doesn't work for me, but it seems that button on my keyboard cannot be bound, so will try another key. I presume it is the option 'weapon swap'?

Thanks.

yeah that is the one you would set the binding for

Artem_gig

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

And stop writing to me that this game is not for me, I went through all the single parts, starting from Tes Arena and ending with the relatively recent tes blades. So why should I suddenly stop playing teso? It's just that for me, the teso action was extremely faded compared to the singles (Although even in them fights are bad, but at least you can feel the struggle). And it's not normal for me that just one *** goblin from tes arena causes me more emotions than a whole bunch of NPCs from teso, which I'll spend half a second killing and immediately forget.

I think anyone coming in an proposing sweeping changes to the fundamental combat of a game because they don't like or don't understand it is a very clear case of that game not being for that person.

The game being part of Elder Scrolls is irrelevant really. I never played blades because I wasn't interested in a mobile game. I didn't come to the blades community and tell them the game they enjoy would be better if it were something different. I just didn't play the game. Plenty of people do this with countless games.

Artem_gig wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

people are saying that TESO with cooldowns would turn into WoW. Why all of a sudden? For you, apart from all other MMOs, only WoW exists? Have you tried at least playing single-player games? When I was talking about fighting with cooldowns and mixing them with light attacks, probably the closest example is tes blades (except that it has a targeted fighting game, due to the conditions of the game on the phone). I suggested leaving non target and doing approximately the same as Tes Blades, but with the conditions teso. And a few words about the second panel. Tell me why you need a second panel when it is used not for the sake of a second weapon, but for the sake of buffs? With the same success, you can simply remove the second panel from the game, and make 10 skills on the first panel. Nothing will change at the same time.

What are you even talking about? Bar swap does let you use two different weapons, including the skills for those specific weapons.

For example, a common PVP setup is Detro/Restro, with Crushing Shock (Destro Skill) on the front bar and Radiating Regen (Restro Skill) on the back bar, Among countless other examples of utilizing multiple weapon types in builds.

Not to mention, console players literally don't have 10 buttons to push to remove the back bar.

And cooldowns would be atrocious.

All in all, it sounds like maybe this game isn't for you, which is fine.

You don't use spam skills on both panels, the second panel is reserved for buffs. Yes, you use the second type of weapon, but not as a weapon, but as a buff. You can't fight with daggers, and then immediately switch to two-handed and not lose damage. Because obviously the two-handed is reserved for the "Momentum" skill, and not for hitting with this sword. You are right that with a healing staff, you really use a healing staff. But it's still a buff, not another way to deal damage.

...?

My back bar has weapon skills on it, like Wall of Elements for example, or Twin Slashes and Blade Cloak. Or even Whirlwind as an execute ability backbarred with a two hand front bar.

Even bow, where backbar is skills like Snipe and Poison Arrow and front bar is Two hand or dual wield skills.

Just because you don't use two bars in a meaningful way doesn't mean that they cannot be used properly. (Also, none of the skills I listed that plenty of people use on their back bars are "buff" skills)

This does not make the back panel capable of dealing damage without losing in dps. In the end, you still have to switch to the front panel to continue to apply acceptable DPS. And only at the right moments, switch to the back panel for a few seconds to squeeze buffs /debuffs and DoTs

Literally the back bar, including the damage from it, is what makes up most DPS for players. Like honestly, people mostly put dots on the back bar that make up a ton of DPS for a parse. Not to mention, for PVP, back bar skills also make up a decent amount of damage.

Even so, having a spot for defensive skills isn't some problem that needs to be solved. Even if only buffs and non damaging skills were on a back bar, that doesn't somehow warrant its removal. Just don't use the back bar if you dislike it so much.

I don't want to remove the back panel, I just want the game to be able to apply 100k dps (for vet content) in any of the cases. For example, while the enemy is far away, use a bow or a staff. And when he is close, switch to dual / two-handed fighting and not lose in dps. I want variety in the staging of the fight. And yes, it's really possible in PVP, and that makes me happy. But this is incompatible with the content of vet. I've been playing this game for 4 years now, but I've never liked the action in all that time. From quests - yes, from lore - yes, from the world - yes, but not from action. It's a stupid reason to quit the game. And it doesn't matter if you've played tes blades, it would be important if you played at least skyrim. And in this example, you would see which impact gives an action in this game, and which one in teso (there is no impact, it's just a burnout 5,1,2,4,3 ~,5,3,4,1,2, lbm,2, lbm, 2, lbm...) moreover, lbm is designed not so much for damage, but for interrupting the animation of the skill.

Gederic

CameraBeardThePirate

Artem_gig wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

And stop writing to me that this game is not for me, I went through all the single parts, starting from Tes Arena and ending with the relatively recent tes blades. So why should I suddenly stop playing teso? It's just that for me, the teso action was extremely faded compared to the singles (Although even in them fights are bad, but at least you can feel the struggle). And it's not normal for me that just one *** goblin from tes arena causes me more emotions than a whole bunch of NPCs from teso, which I'll spend half a second killing and immediately forget.

I think anyone coming in an proposing sweeping changes to the fundamental combat of a game because they don't like or don't understand it is a very clear case of that game not being for that person.

The game being part of Elder Scrolls is irrelevant really. I never played blades because I wasn't interested in a mobile game. I didn't come to the blades community and tell them the game they enjoy would be better if it were something different. I just didn't play the game. Plenty of people do this with countless games.

Artem_gig wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

people are saying that TESO with cooldowns would turn into WoW. Why all of a sudden? For you, apart from all other MMOs, only WoW exists? Have you tried at least playing single-player games? When I was talking about fighting with cooldowns and mixing them with light attacks, probably the closest example is tes blades (except that it has a targeted fighting game, due to the conditions of the game on the phone). I suggested leaving non target and doing approximately the same as Tes Blades, but with the conditions teso. And a few words about the second panel. Tell me why you need a second panel when it is used not for the sake of a second weapon, but for the sake of buffs? With the same success, you can simply remove the second panel from the game, and make 10 skills on the first panel. Nothing will change at the same time.

What are you even talking about? Bar swap does let you use two different weapons, including the skills for those specific weapons.

For example, a common PVP setup is Detro/Restro, with Crushing Shock (Destro Skill) on the front bar and Radiating Regen (Restro Skill) on the back bar, Among countless other examples of utilizing multiple weapon types in builds.

Not to mention, console players literally don't have 10 buttons to push to remove the back bar.

And cooldowns would be atrocious.

All in all, it sounds like maybe this game isn't for you, which is fine.

You don't use spam skills on both panels, the second panel is reserved for buffs. Yes, you use the second type of weapon, but not as a weapon, but as a buff. You can't fight with daggers, and then immediately switch to two-handed and not lose damage. Because obviously the two-handed is reserved for the "Momentum" skill, and not for hitting with this sword. You are right that with a healing staff, you really use a healing staff. But it's still a buff, not another way to deal damage.

...?

My back bar has weapon skills on it, like Wall of Elements for example, or Twin Slashes and Blade Cloak. Or even Whirlwind as an execute ability backbarred with a two hand front bar.

Even bow, where backbar is skills like Snipe and Poison Arrow and front bar is Two hand or dual wield skills.

Just because you don't use two bars in a meaningful way doesn't mean that they cannot be used properly. (Also, none of the skills I listed that plenty of people use on their back bars are "buff" skills)

This does not make the back panel capable of dealing damage without losing in dps. In the end, you still have to switch to the front panel to continue to apply acceptable DPS. And only at the right moments, switch to the back panel for a few seconds to squeeze buffs /debuffs and DoTs

Literally the back bar, including the damage from it, is what makes up most DPS for players. Like honestly, people mostly put dots on the back bar that make up a ton of DPS for a parse. Not to mention, for PVP, back bar skills also make up a decent amount of damage.

Even so, having a spot for defensive skills isn't some problem that needs to be solved. Even if only buffs and non damaging skills were on a back bar, that doesn't somehow warrant its removal. Just don't use the back bar if you dislike it so much.

I don't want to remove the back panel, I just want the game to be able to apply 100k dps (for vet content) in any of the cases. For example, while the enemy is far away, use a bow or a staff. And when he is close, switch to dual / two-handed fighting and not lose in dps. I want variety in the staging of the fight. And yes, it's really possible in PVP, and that makes me happy. But this is incompatible with the content of vet. I've been playing this game for 4 years now, but I've never liked the action in all that time. From quests - yes, from lore - yes, from the world - yes, but not from action. It's a stupid reason to quit the game. And it doesn't matter if you've played tes blades, it would be important if you played at least skyrim. And in this example, you would see which impact gives an action in this game, and which one in teso (there is no impact, it's just a burnout 5,1,2,4,3 ~,5,3,4,1,2, lbm,2, lbm, 2, lbm...) moreover, lbm is designed not so much for damage, but for interrupting the animation of the skill.

So you want to change the entire combat system because you can't reach 100k dps using two separate spammables? Like, what?

You don't need 100k dps. For any content in the game, 70k is plenty. If you wanna slot an extra spammable on your backbar, just slot it. You should still be able to reach that 70k threshold.

Necrotech_Master

Artem_gig wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

And stop writing to me that this game is not for me, I went through all the single parts, starting from Tes Arena and ending with the relatively recent tes blades. So why should I suddenly stop playing teso? It's just that for me, the teso action was extremely faded compared to the singles (Although even in them fights are bad, but at least you can feel the struggle). And it's not normal for me that just one *** goblin from tes arena causes me more emotions than a whole bunch of NPCs from teso, which I'll spend half a second killing and immediately forget.

I think anyone coming in an proposing sweeping changes to the fundamental combat of a game because they don't like or don't understand it is a very clear case of that game not being for that person.

The game being part of Elder Scrolls is irrelevant really. I never played blades because I wasn't interested in a mobile game. I didn't come to the blades community and tell them the game they enjoy would be better if it were something different. I just didn't play the game. Plenty of people do this with countless games.

Artem_gig wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

people are saying that TESO with cooldowns would turn into WoW. Why all of a sudden? For you, apart from all other MMOs, only WoW exists? Have you tried at least playing single-player games? When I was talking about fighting with cooldowns and mixing them with light attacks, probably the closest example is tes blades (except that it has a targeted fighting game, due to the conditions of the game on the phone). I suggested leaving non target and doing approximately the same as Tes Blades, but with the conditions teso. And a few words about the second panel. Tell me why you need a second panel when it is used not for the sake of a second weapon, but for the sake of buffs? With the same success, you can simply remove the second panel from the game, and make 10 skills on the first panel. Nothing will change at the same time.

What are you even talking about? Bar swap does let you use two different weapons, including the skills for those specific weapons.

For example, a common PVP setup is Detro/Restro, with Crushing Shock (Destro Skill) on the front bar and Radiating Regen (Restro Skill) on the back bar, Among countless other examples of utilizing multiple weapon types in builds.

Not to mention, console players literally don't have 10 buttons to push to remove the back bar.

And cooldowns would be atrocious.

All in all, it sounds like maybe this game isn't for you, which is fine.

You don't use spam skills on both panels, the second panel is reserved for buffs. Yes, you use the second type of weapon, but not as a weapon, but as a buff. You can't fight with daggers, and then immediately switch to two-handed and not lose damage. Because obviously the two-handed is reserved for the "Momentum" skill, and not for hitting with this sword. You are right that with a healing staff, you really use a healing staff. But it's still a buff, not another way to deal damage.

...?

My back bar has weapon skills on it, like Wall of Elements for example, or Twin Slashes and Blade Cloak. Or even Whirlwind as an execute ability backbarred with a two hand front bar.

Even bow, where backbar is skills like Snipe and Poison Arrow and front bar is Two hand or dual wield skills.

Just because you don't use two bars in a meaningful way doesn't mean that they cannot be used properly. (Also, none of the skills I listed that plenty of people use on their back bars are "buff" skills)

This does not make the back panel capable of dealing damage without losing in dps. In the end, you still have to switch to the front panel to continue to apply acceptable DPS. And only at the right moments, switch to the back panel for a few seconds to squeeze buffs /debuffs and DoTs

Literally the back bar, including the damage from it, is what makes up most DPS for players. Like honestly, people mostly put dots on the back bar that make up a ton of DPS for a parse. Not to mention, for PVP, back bar skills also make up a decent amount of damage.

Even so, having a spot for defensive skills isn't some problem that needs to be solved. Even if only buffs and non damaging skills were on a back bar, that doesn't somehow warrant its removal. Just don't use the back bar if you dislike it so much.

I don't want to remove the back panel, I just want the game to be able to apply 100k dps (for vet content) in any of the cases. For example, while the enemy is far away, use a bow or a staff. And when he is close, switch to dual / two-handed fighting and not lose in dps. I want variety in the staging of the fight. And yes, it's really possible in PVP, and that makes me happy. But this is incompatible with the content of vet. I've been playing this game for 4 years now, but I've never liked the action in all that time. From quests - yes, from lore - yes, from the world - yes, but not from action. It's a stupid reason to quit the game. And it doesn't matter if you've played tes blades, it would be important if you played at least skyrim. And in this example, you would see which impact gives an action in this game, and which one in teso (there is no impact, it's just a burnout 5,1,2,4,3 ~,5,3,4,1,2, lbm,2, lbm, 2, lbm...) moreover, lbm is designed not so much for damage, but for interrupting the animation of the skill.

weaving does add a significant amount of dmg, if you are playing with a "classic" style build

if you dont want to weave, do a oaken heavy attack build, or a velothi build and ignore it

you are never going to be "guaranteed" 100k dps in this game without putting in the time and effort to understand combat to even a basic degree

that is not a good reason to completely overhaul and change the entire combat system because you cant hit 100k dps on a trial dummy

valenwood_vegan

Almost all of the content in the game can be completed with a wide variety of non-optimal builds. I mean I regularly solo vet dungeons with a bow / bow nightblade wearing pariah and pestilent host. I came up with it one day on the back of a napkin while I was bored at work. It's crazy. It breaks all the rules. I have a blast.

But I'm also not going to ask them to change the combat system so that my weird build becomes desired by high level vet trial teams. If I want to do that content, yes I may have to adapt.

The very top end yes, is always going to require optimal setups. And outside of the absolute highest level content, you don't need 100k dps, don't get hung up on it.

Asking for the entire combat system of a game to be redeveloped [not just tweaked - OP's request would be a massive undertaking, requiring changes to the core combat code; changes to almost every skill; and numerous balancing decisions affecting all classes and all types of content - not to mention, a complete departure from one of the core principles stated by the combat team, namely active combat with "No ability cooldowns and a short global cooldown"] so that your desired setup becomes the optimal one for the highest level content isn't really reasonable.

Weckless

Artem_gig wrote: »

people are saying that TESO with cooldowns would turn into WoW. Why all of a sudden? For you, apart from all other MMOs, only WoW exists? Have you tried at least playing single-player games? When I was talking about fighting with cooldowns and mixing them with light attacks, probably the closest example is tes blades (except that it has a targeted fighting game, due to the conditions of the game on the phone). I suggested leaving non target and doing approximately the same as Tes Blades, but with the conditions teso. And a few words about the second panel. Tell me why you need a second panel when it is used not for the sake of a second weapon, but for the sake of buffs? With the same success, you can simply remove the second panel from the game, and make 10 skills on the first panel. Nothing will change at the same time.

You would make the game unplayable on console. They arent going to effectively kill off the entire console playerbase and completely change the combat system . Console cant fit any more skills. Its already at its max capacity unless you have paddles or put them on the dpad and tbh that would feel extremely uncomfortable

Weckless

It sounds like you should use a one bar build if you don't like the application of the back bar. There are other things besides doing damage. There's nothing wrong with having damage up front and using your back bar as sword and board or ice staff for buffs and heals. You're being very close minded

Artem_gig

Weckless wrote: »

It sounds like you should use a one bar build if you don't like the application of the back bar. There are other things besides doing damage. There's nothing wrong with having damage up front and using your back bar as sword and board or ice staff for buffs and heals. You're being very close minded

What are you talking about... I don't want the back panel to be removed, I want the game to give me the opportunity, without losing dps, to switch to the back panel and deal damage already with it, with another type of weapon. But at the moment, the player is forced to play only one type of weapon, on the first panel, and only in moments of need to switch to the back panel for DoTs, buffs or debuffs. That is, from the fact that you put a bow on the back panel, for example, you will not spam the boss with this bow, because you will lose dps, you will still have to go to the first panel.

Artem_gig

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

And stop writing to me that this game is not for me, I went through all the single parts, starting from Tes Arena and ending with the relatively recent tes blades. So why should I suddenly stop playing teso? It's just that for me, the teso action was extremely faded compared to the singles (Although even in them fights are bad, but at least you can feel the struggle). And it's not normal for me that just one *** goblin from tes arena causes me more emotions than a whole bunch of NPCs from teso, which I'll spend half a second killing and immediately forget.

I think anyone coming in an proposing sweeping changes to the fundamental combat of a game because they don't like or don't understand it is a very clear case of that game not being for that person.

The game being part of Elder Scrolls is irrelevant really. I never played blades because I wasn't interested in a mobile game. I didn't come to the blades community and tell them the game they enjoy would be better if it were something different. I just didn't play the game. Plenty of people do this with countless games.

Artem_gig wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

people are saying that TESO with cooldowns would turn into WoW. Why all of a sudden? For you, apart from all other MMOs, only WoW exists? Have you tried at least playing single-player games? When I was talking about fighting with cooldowns and mixing them with light attacks, probably the closest example is tes blades (except that it has a targeted fighting game, due to the conditions of the game on the phone). I suggested leaving non target and doing approximately the same as Tes Blades, but with the conditions teso. And a few words about the second panel. Tell me why you need a second panel when it is used not for the sake of a second weapon, but for the sake of buffs? With the same success, you can simply remove the second panel from the game, and make 10 skills on the first panel. Nothing will change at the same time.

What are you even talking about? Bar swap does let you use two different weapons, including the skills for those specific weapons.

For example, a common PVP setup is Detro/Restro, with Crushing Shock (Destro Skill) on the front bar and Radiating Regen (Restro Skill) on the back bar, Among countless other examples of utilizing multiple weapon types in builds.

Not to mention, console players literally don't have 10 buttons to push to remove the back bar.

And cooldowns would be atrocious.

All in all, it sounds like maybe this game isn't for you, which is fine.

You don't use spam skills on both panels, the second panel is reserved for buffs. Yes, you use the second type of weapon, but not as a weapon, but as a buff. You can't fight with daggers, and then immediately switch to two-handed and not lose damage. Because obviously the two-handed is reserved for the "Momentum" skill, and not for hitting with this sword. You are right that with a healing staff, you really use a healing staff. But it's still a buff, not another way to deal damage.

...?

My back bar has weapon skills on it, like Wall of Elements for example, or Twin Slashes and Blade Cloak. Or even Whirlwind as an execute ability backbarred with a two hand front bar.

Even bow, where backbar is skills like Snipe and Poison Arrow and front bar is Two hand or dual wield skills.

Just because you don't use two bars in a meaningful way doesn't mean that they cannot be used properly. (Also, none of the skills I listed that plenty of people use on their back bars are "buff" skills)

This does not make the back panel capable of dealing damage without losing in dps. In the end, you still have to switch to the front panel to continue to apply acceptable DPS. And only at the right moments, switch to the back panel for a few seconds to squeeze buffs /debuffs and DoTs

Literally the back bar, including the damage from it, is what makes up most DPS for players. Like honestly, people mostly put dots on the back bar that make up a ton of DPS for a parse. Not to mention, for PVP, back bar skills also make up a decent amount of damage.

Even so, having a spot for defensive skills isn't some problem that needs to be solved. Even if only buffs and non damaging skills were on a back bar, that doesn't somehow warrant its removal. Just don't use the back bar if you dislike it so much.

I don't want to remove the back panel, I just want the game to be able to apply 100k dps (for vet content) in any of the cases. For example, while the enemy is far away, use a bow or a staff. And when he is close, switch to dual / two-handed fighting and not lose in dps. I want variety in the staging of the fight. And yes, it's really possible in PVP, and that makes me happy. But this is incompatible with the content of vet. I've been playing this game for 4 years now, but I've never liked the action in all that time. From quests - yes, from lore - yes, from the world - yes, but not from action. It's a stupid reason to quit the game. And it doesn't matter if you've played tes blades, it would be important if you played at least skyrim. And in this example, you would see which impact gives an action in this game, and which one in teso (there is no impact, it's just a burnout 5,1,2,4,3 ~,5,3,4,1,2, lbm,2, lbm, 2, lbm...) moreover, lbm is designed not so much for damage, but for interrupting the animation of the skill.

weaving does add a significant amount of dmg, if you are playing with a "classic" style build

if you dont want to weave, do a oaken heavy attack build, or a velothi build and ignore it

you are never going to be "guaranteed" 100k dps in this game without putting in the time and effort to understand combat to even a basic degree

that is not a good reason to completely overhaul and change the entire combat system because you cant hit 100k dps on a trial dummy

The problem is not that I can't score 100 dps, I just can. But I don't like that it turns into a quiver of skills. I don't like that light and heavy attacks in this game are useless if you don't use skills to strengthen them, and these attacks are used not for the sake of DPS, but for the sake of interrupting the animation of the skill. Heavy build does not solve the problem. And I don't want to delete the second panel, I just want the second panel to make it possible to use it as spam, but without losing dps.

IndyMike26

I would just like for the combat animations to mean something because they really don’t line up with the damage or attacks going out.

It makes the combat feel clunky because you have to disassociate what your eyes are seeing versus what is actually happening.

merpins

The fact that the initial post has no Insightful, Agree, or Awesome updoots is telling.

That's just Runescape 3, but with more kiting and mobility.
Though I do agree with the last note, in that smarter NPCs would be nice. But that's a complicated issue that plagues nearly every game ever made, and asking Zos that can't even balance their own game properly to solve that issue is kinda funny, not gonna lie.

that said, the systems from point 1, to some degree, could be used for a new class.

Weckless

Artem_gig wrote: »

Weckless wrote: »

It sounds like you should use a one bar build if you don't like the application of the back bar. There are other things besides doing damage. There's nothing wrong with having damage up front and using your back bar as sword and board or ice staff for buffs and heals. You're being very close minded

What are you talking about... I don't want the back panel to be removed, I want the game to give me the opportunity, without losing dps, to switch to the back panel and deal damage already with it, with another type of weapon. But at the moment, the player is forced to play only one type of weapon, on the first panel, and only in moments of need to switch to the back panel for DoTs, buffs or debuffs. That is, from the fact that you put a bow on the back panel, for example, you will not spam the boss with this bow, because you will lose dps, you will still have to go to the first panel.

I don't understand the reasoning. You can just swap builds if you want to play differently. There's no reason to change the game so you can be legalos and aragorn at the same time

FoJul

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

In the game, the action is not that exciting. It doesn't even look like a fight, I would say more like a pianist's simulator. Moreover, the action in the game is based on a bug with weaving. And here is my solution to this problem, which may either cause you rejection, or on the contrary, there will be like-minded people. And that's why I divided each of my proposals into points, so that I could express my opinion on each point:

1. Cooldowns. I would like every skill in the game to have a cooldown. What for? Well, this will eliminate several problems from the game at once. This will cease to be a pianist's simulant and will make weaving meaningless, because even spam skills will have a cooldown, which will make them not spam. And to compensate for the reduced damage, I suggest raising the damage to light and heavy attacks. This will allow you to focus on interrupting and protecting attacks, which will make the action game more exciting. You will have to look at the enemy, not at the skill panel. Then why use skills? Well, for the first time, even taking into account that now the skills will be available only after the cooldown has passed, they still cause, albeit rare (due to the cooldown), but high damage. Also, some skills give you buffs, or debuffs to enemies. But due to the cooldown, some skills that have a timer when used will need to change the duration of the skill.

2. This application probably won't appeal to many, but I would like the buffs from the skills imposed on the player to fall off when the panel is swapped, except when the same skills that hung these buffs are on two panels. Why do you say it is necessary? And why is there a second panel in the game in principle? The fact is that 2 panels do not allow you to use 2 types of weapons in a swap battle. You are forced to use only one weapon in battle, while the second weapon is just a plug for another panel, for the sake of buffs. So if you're going to use daggers for melee, and a bow for ranged combat, on the second panel. Then you will be disappointed, because your damage will drop, so you will be forced to use the bow only as a plug for another panel of buffs and skill hail of arrows. But my option implies the second panel not as a buffs panel, but as a way to change the gameplay during the battle. Switch from melee to ranged and not lose damage. Or fight with daggers, and then take a two-handed sw
(by the way, I do not exclude that in this regard it is necessary to increase the number of cells for skills on the panel to 6 or 7)

3. And finally the last sentence. However, it only works in tandem with the first one. And this complication of enemies in the open world. Does someone perceive enemies as enemies? Of course not, these are just dummies. But as for me, they should not just be given damage and HP. They need to change their intelligence so that the player more often needs to use parrying or interrupting enemy attacks. Are you generally interrupting enemy attacks? Of course not, they hardly do damage. For this reason, the damage to attacks that can be interrupted or blocked should be raised. The same applies to bosses, for the most part boss battles are just a passive infusion of damage. It is necessary to give players the need to fend off the boss's attacks and dodge his attacks across the area. However, even if it's all in the game, players still won't have an incentive to block attacks. Why? Regeneration of hp. In the open world, healers are not needed. As soon as you receive damage, even without the help of a healer, you immediately restore the HP spent. As for me, it is necessary to reduce regeneration during combat, or remove it altogether. But at the same time reduce the cooldown of potions.

That's kind of it. please forgive me if the meaning of some points was not clear, I used a translator.

I hate literally all if these suggestions. If you want to change combat THIS DRASTICALLY maybe ESO is not the MMO for you

Nah what they should do is for PVP(battle spirit) take away all base stats...

Necrotech_Master

Artem_gig wrote: »

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

And stop writing to me that this game is not for me, I went through all the single parts, starting from Tes Arena and ending with the relatively recent tes blades. So why should I suddenly stop playing teso? It's just that for me, the teso action was extremely faded compared to the singles (Although even in them fights are bad, but at least you can feel the struggle). And it's not normal for me that just one *** goblin from tes arena causes me more emotions than a whole bunch of NPCs from teso, which I'll spend half a second killing and immediately forget.

I think anyone coming in an proposing sweeping changes to the fundamental combat of a game because they don't like or don't understand it is a very clear case of that game not being for that person.

The game being part of Elder Scrolls is irrelevant really. I never played blades because I wasn't interested in a mobile game. I didn't come to the blades community and tell them the game they enjoy would be better if it were something different. I just didn't play the game. Plenty of people do this with countless games.

Artem_gig wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

people are saying that TESO with cooldowns would turn into WoW. Why all of a sudden? For you, apart from all other MMOs, only WoW exists? Have you tried at least playing single-player games? When I was talking about fighting with cooldowns and mixing them with light attacks, probably the closest example is tes blades (except that it has a targeted fighting game, due to the conditions of the game on the phone). I suggested leaving non target and doing approximately the same as Tes Blades, but with the conditions teso. And a few words about the second panel. Tell me why you need a second panel when it is used not for the sake of a second weapon, but for the sake of buffs? With the same success, you can simply remove the second panel from the game, and make 10 skills on the first panel. Nothing will change at the same time.

What are you even talking about? Bar swap does let you use two different weapons, including the skills for those specific weapons.

For example, a common PVP setup is Detro/Restro, with Crushing Shock (Destro Skill) on the front bar and Radiating Regen (Restro Skill) on the back bar, Among countless other examples of utilizing multiple weapon types in builds.

Not to mention, console players literally don't have 10 buttons to push to remove the back bar.

And cooldowns would be atrocious.

All in all, it sounds like maybe this game isn't for you, which is fine.

You don't use spam skills on both panels, the second panel is reserved for buffs. Yes, you use the second type of weapon, but not as a weapon, but as a buff. You can't fight with daggers, and then immediately switch to two-handed and not lose damage. Because obviously the two-handed is reserved for the "Momentum" skill, and not for hitting with this sword. You are right that with a healing staff, you really use a healing staff. But it's still a buff, not another way to deal damage.

...?

My back bar has weapon skills on it, like Wall of Elements for example, or Twin Slashes and Blade Cloak. Or even Whirlwind as an execute ability backbarred with a two hand front bar.

Even bow, where backbar is skills like Snipe and Poison Arrow and front bar is Two hand or dual wield skills.

Just because you don't use two bars in a meaningful way doesn't mean that they cannot be used properly. (Also, none of the skills I listed that plenty of people use on their back bars are "buff" skills)

This does not make the back panel capable of dealing damage without losing in dps. In the end, you still have to switch to the front panel to continue to apply acceptable DPS. And only at the right moments, switch to the back panel for a few seconds to squeeze buffs /debuffs and DoTs

Literally the back bar, including the damage from it, is what makes up most DPS for players. Like honestly, people mostly put dots on the back bar that make up a ton of DPS for a parse. Not to mention, for PVP, back bar skills also make up a decent amount of damage.

Even so, having a spot for defensive skills isn't some problem that needs to be solved. Even if only buffs and non damaging skills were on a back bar, that doesn't somehow warrant its removal. Just don't use the back bar if you dislike it so much.

I don't want to remove the back panel, I just want the game to be able to apply 100k dps (for vet content) in any of the cases. For example, while the enemy is far away, use a bow or a staff. And when he is close, switch to dual / two-handed fighting and not lose in dps. I want variety in the staging of the fight. And yes, it's really possible in PVP, and that makes me happy. But this is incompatible with the content of vet. I've been playing this game for 4 years now, but I've never liked the action in all that time. From quests - yes, from lore - yes, from the world - yes, but not from action. It's a stupid reason to quit the game. And it doesn't matter if you've played tes blades, it would be important if you played at least skyrim. And in this example, you would see which impact gives an action in this game, and which one in teso (there is no impact, it's just a burnout 5,1,2,4,3 ~,5,3,4,1,2, lbm,2, lbm, 2, lbm...) moreover, lbm is designed not so much for damage, but for interrupting the animation of the skill.

weaving does add a significant amount of dmg, if you are playing with a "classic" style build

if you dont want to weave, do a oaken heavy attack build, or a velothi build and ignore it

you are never going to be "guaranteed" 100k dps in this game without putting in the time and effort to understand combat to even a basic degree

that is not a good reason to completely overhaul and change the entire combat system because you cant hit 100k dps on a trial dummy

The problem is not that I can't score 100 dps, I just can. But I don't like that it turns into a quiver of skills. I don't like that light and heavy attacks in this game are useless if you don't use skills to strengthen them, and these attacks are used not for the sake of DPS, but for the sake of interrupting the animation of the skill. Heavy build does not solve the problem. And I don't want to delete the second panel, I just want the second panel to make it possible to use it as spam, but without losing dps.

light and heavy attacks are not useless, in fact there is an entire playstyle revolving around heavy attacking

you use gear to buff the heavy attacks, not skills

if your using a classic 2 bar weaving build, light attacks usually amount to upwards 10-20% of your parse dps, depending on how good you are at weaving, that is not an insignificant amount and only used for animation cancels

heavy attack builds specifically focus on using heavy attack spam occasionally throwing skills between the heavy attacks

it is possible to do a 2 bar heavy attack build without oakensoul, but you have to find a way to get empower (DK or templar, or use a mages guild skill)

its very clear you dont understand how combat works in here, and nobody wants the games core combat to change, like that would even be possible at this point in the games lifecycle

Dokolus

I went into this thread going by the title name and thinking "wonder if this will be a list of QoL changes to help undo what U35 did".

Instead it's OP listing off biased and personal desired changes to benefit a build style of play to reach a certain threshold of dps.

This is not really a "proposal", but more of a desire of personal wanting, and well, that clearly is not being shared within the community, nor do I share in it.

Also the amount of time/money needed to rework the entire combat system to appease one user out of millions is highly illogical.

Gray_howling_parrot

Nah, this ain’t it chief. Appreciate you taking the time to write all this out, but I think you’d enjoy other MMOs long term more based on this post.

I enjoy the combat, and so do most ESO players. ESO has MUCH more pertinent issues - monetization, lack of content and communication with player base, etc.

Cheers!

Sparxlost

1. Not everyone spams every skill on their bar its usually just one or two... and buffs/debuffs or other effects effectively serve as cooldowns.. adding a cooldown to spam skills would mean that most players would sit there for 5 or so seconds JUST light attacking which would be a downgrade from current gameplay.. as far as pianist simulator goes i might suggest getting a build that doesnt require as much dexterity because combat often does...

2. This is an awful idea because a ranger and even a mage is entitled to a backup weapon in the event that their main is rendered ineffective... It would be absurd to think that all my buffs i had cast would just vanish because i decided to wield my dagger instead of my staff or that all the hard work i put into weakening my enemy with arrows just vanishes as soon as i pull out my sword..

3. Parrying is somewhat already a feature.. You can interrupt certain attacks (heavies attacks and most special attacks) for all but the biggest bosses with a bash then follow up with a heavy attack for a repost that stuns the enemy.... What IS dumb is how easy it is to pull off after playing the game for awhile... If what you wanted was to make enemies stronger i would suggest adding realistic resistances to each enemy and upgrading ai reactivity... Most or all shield npcs can parry but not a lot of others do... i imagine ranged npcs could aggro casters automatically if not taunted and cast interrupt spells at certain intervals and assassin types can deal out common debuffs that you might actually never see in pve...

TLDR: i disagree with the player combat changes but somewhat agree that npcs need a buff...

Sparxlost

Artem_gig wrote: »

And stop writing to me that this game is not for me, I went through all the single parts, starting from Tes Arena and ending with the relatively recent tes blades. So why should I suddenly stop playing teso? It's just that for me, the teso action was extremely faded compared to the singles (Although even in them fights are bad, but at least you can feel the struggle). And it's not normal for me that just one *** goblin from tes arena causes me more emotions than a whole bunch of NPCs from teso, which I'll spend half a second killing and immediately forget.

I understand what you mean.. as i felt similarly when i first started the game, but then i realized that the system actually gave me even more freedom to play than those games did as i could effectively combo a bunch of different spells into one big explosion or have access to a more pressurizing fighting style as a dual wielder.. idk if you know but light attack spamming is the same for all weapons i think so its great that i can use my multi hit dual wield abilities in tandem to deal consistent damage... For two-handers they have slower skills but they hit harder giving them less consistency but more explosive pressure... adding a cooldown to any skills (aside from nightblade stealth) would make the game much less interesting to play...

boi_anachronism_

Artem_gig wrote: »

In the game, the action is not that exciting. It doesn't even look like a fight, I would say more like a pianist's simulator. Moreover, the action in the game is based on a bug with weaving. And here is my solution to this problem, which may either cause you rejection, or on the contrary, there will be like-minded people. And that's why I divided each of my proposals into points, so that I could express my opinion on each point:

1. Cooldowns. I would like every skill in the game to have a cooldown. What for? Well, this will eliminate several problems from the game at once. This will cease to be a pianist's simulant and will make weaving meaningless, because even spam skills will have a cooldown, which will make them not spam. And to compensate for the reduced damage, I suggest raising the damage to light and heavy attacks. This will allow you to focus on interrupting and protecting attacks, which will make the action game more exciting. You will have to look at the enemy, not at the skill panel. Then why use skills? Well, for the first time, even taking into account that now the skills will be available only after the cooldown has passed, they still cause, albeit rare (due to the cooldown), but high damage. Also, some skills give you buffs, or debuffs to enemies. But due to the cooldown, some skills that have a timer when used will need to change the duration of the skill.

2. This application probably won't appeal to many, but I would like the buffs from the skills imposed on the player to fall off when the panel is swapped, except when the same skills that hung these buffs are on two panels. Why do you say it is necessary? And why is there a second panel in the game in principle? The fact is that 2 panels do not allow you to use 2 types of weapons in a swap battle. You are forced to use only one weapon in battle, while the second weapon is just a plug for another panel, for the sake of buffs. So if you're going to use daggers for melee, and a bow for ranged combat, on the second panel. Then you will be disappointed, because your damage will drop, so you will be forced to use the bow only as a plug for another panel of buffs and skill hail of arrows. But my option implies the second panel not as a buffs panel, but as a way to change the gameplay during the battle. Switch from melee to ranged and not lose damage. Or fight with daggers, and then take a two-handed sw
(by the way, I do not exclude that in this regard it is necessary to increase the number of cells for skills on the panel to 6 or 7)

3. And finally the last sentence. However, it only works in tandem with the first one. And this complication of enemies in the open world. Does someone perceive enemies as enemies? Of course not, these are just dummies. But as for me, they should not just be given damage and HP. They need to change their intelligence so that the player more often needs to use parrying or interrupting enemy attacks. Are you generally interrupting enemy attacks? Of course not, they hardly do damage. For this reason, the damage to attacks that can be interrupted or blocked should be raised. The same applies to bosses, for the most part boss battles are just a passive infusion of damage. It is necessary to give players the need to fend off the boss's attacks and dodge his attacks across the area. However, even if it's all in the game, players still won't have an incentive to block attacks. Why? Regeneration of hp. In the open world, healers are not needed. As soon as you receive damage, even without the help of a healer, you immediately restore the HP spent. As for me, it is necessary to reduce regeneration during combat, or remove it altogether. But at the same time reduce the cooldown of potions.

That's kind of it. please forgive me if the meaning of some points was not clear, I used a translator.

Honestly dude all these ideas would be incredibly unpopular and literally changes the core of the game. Who the heck wants buffs to fall off during swap that destroys every single build out there right now. Sorry to tell you this but weaving is not a bug. That has been stated countless times by the devs to the point there is actually a tip in one of the loading screens for it. It might not have been intentional to start but they saw the way players embraced it and made a conscious decision to keep it. Bar swapping is a skill. I absolutely keep other spammables bb sometimes for certain content. Tanking would be in the trash, Heavy attack builds gone, la builds gone, proc sets gone. You want to turn the game into something that has no action component. A dry, stale, copy cat combat system. More then half the community would leave just by virtue of the fact that they dont even know how to play anymore. End game would be gone, raiders at all levels would be gone, pvp player would leave. You want to change the most basic part of the game. Not in a small way either but the absolute core of it. Im glad the devs would never consider such a thing. They know it would kill the game literally and financially.

And yeah, everyone on here in right- if you want to change this much of the game play, the absolute fundamentals then its probably not for you regardless of what other games or questing or whatever you have done. Its its own thing. Its not skyrim. I came from before morrowind. It holds the lore but the gameplay is not the same and it shouldn’t have to be. A ton a the community does find the combat engaging. Im sorry if you aren't one. Its like telling someone you love them but then saying change everything about yourself that fundamentally makes you, well, you.

Quick example: i love diablo lore, love it. Hate the game play. So i don't play it. I follow the story, read the books but i realize the game just isnt for me. Never in a million years would I lobby for completely changing everything about the game so that I could personally enjoy it but 100s thousands of people would be devastated. Its not your game. Its all of ours. What of the folks who put 8yrs into the game and love it? Should they just take a seat so you can get the game play that you find ideal? The answer is no and to be absolutely blunt its selfish.


And btw: console players don't "plug buttons" we play it like any other game. Fun fact- lots of pc folks also play with a controller. No button mashing involved. Just hitting things in a particular sequence. Same way you do when trying to pull off a combo in a fighting game or supersmash brothers. Only difference is they dont have timers. Id argue those games are more plugging buttons.

Artem_gig

Sparxlost wrote: »

1. Not everyone spams every skill on their bar its usually just one or two... and buffs/debuffs or other effects effectively serve as cooldowns.. adding a cooldown to spam skills would mean that most players would sit there for 5 or so seconds JUST light attacking which would be a downgrade from current gameplay.. as far as pianist simulator goes i might suggest getting a build that doesnt require as much dexterity because combat often does...

2. This is an awful idea because a ranger and even a mage is entitled to a backup weapon in the event that their main is rendered ineffective... It would be absurd to think that all my buffs i had cast would just vanish because i decided to wield my dagger instead of my staff or that all the hard work i put into weakening my enemy with arrows just vanishes as soon as i pull out my sword..

3. Parrying is somewhat already a feature.. You can interrupt certain attacks (heavies attacks and most special attacks) for all but the biggest bosses with a bash then follow up with a heavy attack for a repost that stuns the enemy.... What IS dumb is how easy it is to pull off after playing the game for awhile... If what you wanted was to make enemies stronger i would suggest adding realistic resistances to each enemy and upgrading ai reactivity... Most or all shield npcs can parry but not a lot of others do... i imagine ranged npcs could aggro casters automatically if not taunted and cast interrupt spells at certain intervals and assassin types can deal out common debuffs that you might actually never see in pve...

TLDR: i disagree with the player combat changes but somewhat agree that npcs need a buff...

No, the idea was that only buffs would fall off, and debuffs or Dots would remain the same when changing the panel.

aru

I don't exactly like the current combat system, but your suggestions are not any better. Especially the first one. It would greatly increase the numbers of the gankers and assassins which are already annoying.