proposal to change the combat system

Artem_gig

In the game, the action is not that exciting. It doesn't even look like a fight, I would say more like a pianist's simulator. Moreover, the action in the game is based on a bug with weaving. And here is my solution to this problem, which may either cause you rejection, or on the contrary, there will be like-minded people. And that's why I divided each of my proposals into points, so that I could express my opinion on each point:

1. Cooldowns. I would like every skill in the game to have a cooldown. What for? Well, this will eliminate several problems from the game at once. This will cease to be a pianist's simulant and will make weaving meaningless, because even spam skills will have a cooldown, which will make them not spam. And to compensate for the reduced damage, I suggest raising the damage to light and heavy attacks. This will allow you to focus on interrupting and protecting attacks, which will make the action game more exciting. You will have to look at the enemy, not at the skill panel. Then why use skills? Well, for the first time, even taking into account that now the skills will be available only after the cooldown has passed, they still cause, albeit rare (due to the cooldown), but high damage. Also, some skills give you buffs, or debuffs to enemies. But due to the cooldown, some skills that have a timer when used will need to change the duration of the skill.

2. This application probably won't appeal to many, but I would like the buffs from the skills imposed on the player to fall off when the panel is swapped, except when the same skills that hung these buffs are on two panels. Why do you say it is necessary? And why is there a second panel in the game in principle? The fact is that 2 panels do not allow you to use 2 types of weapons in a swap battle. You are forced to use only one weapon in battle, while the second weapon is just a plug for another panel, for the sake of buffs. So if you're going to use daggers for melee, and a bow for ranged combat, on the second panel. Then you will be disappointed, because your damage will drop, so you will be forced to use the bow only as a plug for another panel of buffs and skill hail of arrows. But my option implies the second panel not as a buffs panel, but as a way to change the gameplay during the battle. Switch from melee to ranged and not lose damage. Or fight with daggers, and then take a two-handed sw
(by the way, I do not exclude that in this regard it is necessary to increase the number of cells for skills on the panel to 6 or 7)

3. And finally the last sentence. However, it only works in tandem with the first one. And this complication of enemies in the open world. Does someone perceive enemies as enemies? Of course not, these are just dummies. But as for me, they should not just be given damage and HP. They need to change their intelligence so that the player more often needs to use parrying or interrupting enemy attacks. Are you generally interrupting enemy attacks? Of course not, they hardly do damage. For this reason, the damage to attacks that can be interrupted or blocked should be raised. The same applies to bosses, for the most part boss battles are just a passive infusion of damage. It is necessary to give players the need to fend off the boss's attacks and dodge his attacks across the area. However, even if it's all in the game, players still won't have an incentive to block attacks. Why? Regeneration of hp. In the open world, healers are not needed. As soon as you receive damage, even without the help of a healer, you immediately restore the HP spent. As for me, it is necessary to reduce regeneration during combat, or remove it altogether. But at the same time reduce the cooldown of potions.

That's kind of it. please forgive me if the meaning of some points was not clear, I used a translator.

INM

The game is too old to undergo such drastic changes to its combat system.

Artem_gig

INM wrote: »

The game is too old to undergo such drastic changes to its combat system.

Perhaps, but it still seems to me that the engine allows it, I'm not asking to change the combat system in a coordinated way, I just suggested changing the logic of some points.

Janni

Adding cooldowns would be the best way to ruin what this game has to offer. I didn't bother to read much further than that first sentence because I see where this is going. No thanks. I like the fast pace as it is. I don't want to play WoW.

Artem_gig

Janni wrote: »

Adding cooldowns would be the best way to ruin what this game has to offer. I didn't bother to read much further than that first sentence because I see where this is going. No thanks. I like the fast pace as it is. I don't want to play WoW.

For the first time, it's never WoW, because it's not a target, and I suggested focusing on light and heavy attacks, which are not in WoW, this would make teso more like a single. And the fast pace that you are talking about is literally plugging the buttons until the keyboard breaks and the piano simulator.

CameraBeardThePirate

"I don't like the combat system so the devs should put in tons of hours of work to completely change it from the ground up so that my desires are satisfied."

No.

FantasticFreddie

Artem_gig wrote: »

In the game, the action is not that exciting. It doesn't even look like a fight, I would say more like a pianist's simulator. Moreover, the action in the game is based on a bug with weaving. And here is my solution to this problem, which may either cause you rejection, or on the contrary, there will be like-minded people. And that's why I divided each of my proposals into points, so that I could express my opinion on each point:

1. Cooldowns. I would like every skill in the game to have a cooldown. What for? Well, this will eliminate several problems from the game at once. This will cease to be a pianist's simulant and will make weaving meaningless, because even spam skills will have a cooldown, which will make them not spam. And to compensate for the reduced damage, I suggest raising the damage to light and heavy attacks. This will allow you to focus on interrupting and protecting attacks, which will make the action game more exciting. You will have to look at the enemy, not at the skill panel. Then why use skills? Well, for the first time, even taking into account that now the skills will be available only after the cooldown has passed, they still cause, albeit rare (due to the cooldown), but high damage. Also, some skills give you buffs, or debuffs to enemies. But due to the cooldown, some skills that have a timer when used will need to change the duration of the skill.

2. This application probably won't appeal to many, but I would like the buffs from the skills imposed on the player to fall off when the panel is swapped, except when the same skills that hung these buffs are on two panels. Why do you say it is necessary? And why is there a second panel in the game in principle? The fact is that 2 panels do not allow you to use 2 types of weapons in a swap battle. You are forced to use only one weapon in battle, while the second weapon is just a plug for another panel, for the sake of buffs. So if you're going to use daggers for melee, and a bow for ranged combat, on the second panel. Then you will be disappointed, because your damage will drop, so you will be forced to use the bow only as a plug for another panel of buffs and skill hail of arrows. But my option implies the second panel not as a buffs panel, but as a way to change the gameplay during the battle. Switch from melee to ranged and not lose damage. Or fight with daggers, and then take a two-handed sw
(by the way, I do not exclude that in this regard it is necessary to increase the number of cells for skills on the panel to 6 or 7)

3. And finally the last sentence. However, it only works in tandem with the first one. And this complication of enemies in the open world. Does someone perceive enemies as enemies? Of course not, these are just dummies. But as for me, they should not just be given damage and HP. They need to change their intelligence so that the player more often needs to use parrying or interrupting enemy attacks. Are you generally interrupting enemy attacks? Of course not, they hardly do damage. For this reason, the damage to attacks that can be interrupted or blocked should be raised. The same applies to bosses, for the most part boss battles are just a passive infusion of damage. It is necessary to give players the need to fend off the boss's attacks and dodge his attacks across the area. However, even if it's all in the game, players still won't have an incentive to block attacks. Why? Regeneration of hp. In the open world, healers are not needed. As soon as you receive damage, even without the help of a healer, you immediately restore the HP spent. As for me, it is necessary to reduce regeneration during combat, or remove it altogether. But at the same time reduce the cooldown of potions.

That's kind of it. please forgive me if the meaning of some points was not clear, I used a translator.

I hate literally all if these suggestions. If you want to change combat THIS DRASTICALLY maybe ESO is not the MMO for you

JanTanhide

Nope. Don't want any of the changes you suggest. I enjoy the way combat works in ESO. If you don't you should find another MMO.

UsualSurrender

Artem_gig wrote: »

This will allow you to focus on interrupting and protecting attacks, which will make the action game more exciting. You will have to look at the enemy, not at the skill panel.

You're already supposed to do that, on top of managing your rotation. But if the only content you do is overland and questing, I can imagine why this seems like a good idea.
Most of your ideas would lead to dumbing down the combat system and reducing it to light attacks spamming with a few active skills there and there.

valenwood_vegan

No thanks on all of these. Of course it isn't up to me, but I would suggest that OP might be better off looking for a different MMO because the chance of them radically remaking the core combat system of this nearly ten year old game is thankfully pretty low.

I mean also, realistically, EVEN if zos thought this was a good idea, changes of this magnitude would take years for them to plan and implement.

Everyone is entitled to have an opinion and make suggestions, but imo it is not realistic to expect an established, successful game to be completely redeveloped into something different with no guarantee that anyone (even OP) will even like the end result.

Smaller, targeted suggestions are more effective and can actually produce results (like viable heavy attack builds being added to the game as alternative for people who don't like the weaving mechanic). "Change the entire game into the game I want", probably not so much.

tincanman

Cooldowns? More skill delays?

Absolutely not.

Removing the skill/ultimate delays previously introduced would be a much better proposal. And reduce lag, obviously.

phaneub17_ESO

I like Feral Druid and Monk combat in WoW because everything is instant and there aren't any cooldowns, I get the same feeling in ESO because I can spam everything. I control my dots here like I control my bleeds on my kitty, it plays pretty similar to me. Weaving is optional for casual play, I do it when I feel like it or don't. Lot of times I end up only doing it when all the dots are up and I'm alternating between my main spam ability like Force Pulse, Light Attack, Force Pulse, Light Attack; it's not evenly pressed either, I just spam both buttons and see what hits.

You want to kill this game for me, cooldowns will do it.

Blencathra

And there is me just wanting a single button to switch between the front and back bars.
If anyone knows an add-on for this now THAT would be such a help.

Necrotech_Master

yeah all of those combat suggestions sound absolutely atrocious in the nicest possible way to put it

if every skill had cooldowns, we would absolutely need 2-3x more skills on 1 bar, and dropping buffs from front to back bar, there would never be a reason to ever use back bar ever unless its applying debuffs to the enemy

absolutely hard pass

Blencathra wrote: »

And there is me just wanting a single button to switch between the front and back bars.
If anyone knows an add-on for this now THAT would be such a help.

there is? on PC at least with keyboard the default bar swap is `, but i rebound it to a button on my mouse

Braffin

I like the combat system as it is, including weaving, and see absolutely no reason to change it.

Weaving isn't a bug btw, as were explained several times throughout the last 10 years. If you want to play a mmo with classical tab-targeting-combat, go play some. Because eso isn't and never has been.

SilverBride

Please, no.

WrathOfInnos

Every skill already has a cooldown, even spammables. Most are 1s, some are more (like Daedric Prey at 6s), none are less. Button mashing accomplishes nothing in ESO. Maximum efficiency for combat is to cast one skill every second (left hand keyboard input at 1 Hz) and one light attack between each skill (right hand mouse clicking at 1Hz). Sure there are occasional bar swaps or synergies, and you may need to block or dodge, but in general the combat is fairly slow and predictable. I definitely would not want to slow the action down further.

Weckless

Artem_gig wrote: »

In the game, the action is not that exciting. It doesn't even look like a fight, I would say more like a pianist's simulator. Moreover, the action in the game is based on a bug with weaving. And here is my solution to this problem, which may either cause you rejection, or on the contrary, there will be like-minded people. And that's why I divided each of my proposals into points, so that I could express my opinion on each point:

1. Cooldowns. I would like every skill in the game to have a cooldown. What for? Well, this will eliminate several problems from the game at once. This will cease to be a pianist's simulant and will make weaving meaningless, because even spam skills will have a cooldown, which will make them not spam. And to compensate for the reduced damage, I suggest raising the damage to light and heavy attacks. This will allow you to focus on interrupting and protecting attacks, which will make the action game more exciting. You will have to look at the enemy, not at the skill panel. Then why use skills? Well, for the first time, even taking into account that now the skills will be available only after the cooldown has passed, they still cause, albeit rare (due to the cooldown), but high damage. Also, some skills give you buffs, or debuffs to enemies. But due to the cooldown, some skills that have a timer when used will need to change the duration of the skill.

2. This application probably won't appeal to many, but I would like the buffs from the skills imposed on the player to fall off when the panel is swapped, except when the same skills that hung these buffs are on two panels. Why do you say it is necessary? And why is there a second panel in the game in principle? The fact is that 2 panels do not allow you to use 2 types of weapons in a swap battle. You are forced to use only one weapon in battle, while the second weapon is just a plug for another panel, for the sake of buffs. So if you're going to use daggers for melee, and a bow for ranged combat, on the second panel. Then you will be disappointed, because your damage will drop, so you will be forced to use the bow only as a plug for another panel of buffs and skill hail of arrows. But my option implies the second panel not as a buffs panel, but as a way to change the gameplay during the battle. Switch from melee to ranged and not lose damage. Or fight with daggers, and then take a two-handed sw
(by the way, I do not exclude that in this regard it is necessary to increase the number of cells for skills on the panel to 6 or 7)

3. And finally the last sentence. However, it only works in tandem with the first one. And this complication of enemies in the open world. Does someone perceive enemies as enemies? Of course not, these are just dummies. But as for me, they should not just be given damage and HP. They need to change their intelligence so that the player more often needs to use parrying or interrupting enemy attacks. Are you generally interrupting enemy attacks? Of course not, they hardly do damage. For this reason, the damage to attacks that can be interrupted or blocked should be raised. The same applies to bosses, for the most part boss battles are just a passive infusion of damage. It is necessary to give players the need to fend off the boss's attacks and dodge his attacks across the area. However, even if it's all in the game, players still won't have an incentive to block attacks. Why? Regeneration of hp. In the open world, healers are not needed. As soon as you receive damage, even without the help of a healer, you immediately restore the HP spent. As for me, it is necessary to reduce regeneration during combat, or remove it altogether. But at the same time reduce the cooldown of potions.

That's kind of it. please forgive me if the meaning of some points was not clear, I used a translator.

No

Blencathra

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

Blencathra wrote: »

And there is me just wanting a single button to switch between the front and back bars.
If anyone knows an add-on for this now THAT would be such a help.

there is? on PC at least with keyboard the default bar swap is `, but i rebound it to a button on my mouse

That doesn't work for me, but it seems that button on my keyboard cannot be bound, so will try another key. I presume it is the option 'weapon swap'?

Thanks.

Weckless

Honestly i agree with the others... just find a different game

Soarora

This is exactly what I meant when I said on another thread "people who clearly hate the game should find a game they enjoy", which I got ridiculed for but... seriously, if the combat was changed the game population would crash and all endgames except ToT would probably be wiped out. Just play a different game.

PhoenixGrey

Adding cooldowns will make eso combat utter garbage like wow

chessalavakia_ESO

I think you'd hit the issue in swapping to a cooldown system that ESO lacks the bar space to make it feel good and that you'd likely need to do an animation pass on the light and the heavy attacks to make them feel better if you made them a larger part of the rotation. I've tried playing with primarily light/heavy attacks at times and it feels worse than Skyrim animation wise.

I'd agree that ESO's skillbar slot/buff design does end up making you feel like you are missing out when you try to optimize as you get lots of fun weapon abilities but, after putting on the buffs/utility/dots you need you don't have space for them.

Personally, I tend to play the Elder Scrolls Series of games to relax so I tend to prefer the gameplay to be a bit on the easy side. I do interrupt npcs quite regularly but, I don't want to die because I missed once or twice. I also personally prefer to RP as a more mundane character so I prefer regenerating hp to healing or using potions.

Norith_Gilheart_Flail

I don't know why people compare with WoW, when cool downs with action combat is GW2. Which I love.

The others are right though, as much as this would be a good way to control abilities without all these nerfs, it's far too late in the piece to happen now.

preevious

I understand where you're getting at, and I understand why you'd want those changes.

However, that post is a bit naive. It's incredibly obvious that those changes will never occur for reasons :

1) too much of an overhaul. people would leave in droves.

2) Overland difficulty is a very often discussed topic on these forums. We had it, once, when the champion points were "veteran ranks". People from different alliance where separated and could not play together, and you would get your own version of others alliances zones , that would become "veteran" zones, where a group of three shalks would actually straight up murder you if you didn't pay close attention. The devs made the choice to scale everything down and make overland easy ages ago. I can't really see them reneging on their choices. I used to like the difficulty, but I like having every player from all alliance together even more.

FriedEggSandwich

The game already has "cooldowns"; they're not enforced, but you are rewarded for sticking to them. I could spam wall of elements every second if I chose to, but I'm rewarded for waiting 10s between casts. A better example is Haunting Curse; I could cast it every second and do no damage, or I could wait 4s between casts to do the most damage, or I could wait the full 12s to save more magicka. These choices encourage skillful gameplay imo.

The action of the game (LA weaving) is based on light attacks and skills having separate GCDs. This is by design, not a bug. Ultimates also have their own separate GCD. Animation cancelling is a result of instant cast skills having animations that are not instant. This is more of a dev oversight, but is certainly not unique to ESO. It's been nerfed anyway. It used to be beneficial to block cancel every weave, but trying to block cancel now will slow you down. It's still occasionally worth bash or bar-swap cancelling certain skills, but it's definitely not required.

The game is less like a pianist sim if you offload most of your inputs to your mouse (mmo mouse).

The game used to be a lot like your second point, but has moved away from that to encourage people to use the skills that used to drop off when bar swapping. You're correct about that not appealing to people.

Artem_gig

people are saying that TESO with cooldowns would turn into WoW. Why all of a sudden? For you, apart from all other MMOs, only WoW exists? Have you tried at least playing single-player games? When I was talking about fighting with cooldowns and mixing them with light attacks, probably the closest example is tes blades (except that it has a targeted fighting game, due to the conditions of the game on the phone). I suggested leaving non target and doing approximately the same as Tes Blades, but with the conditions teso. And a few words about the second panel. Tell me why you need a second panel when it is used not for the sake of a second weapon, but for the sake of buffs? With the same success, you can simply remove the second panel from the game, and make 10 skills on the first panel. Nothing will change at the same time.

jaws343

Artem_gig wrote: »

people are saying that TESO with cooldowns would turn into WoW. Why all of a sudden? For you, apart from all other MMOs, only WoW exists? Have you tried at least playing single-player games? When I was talking about fighting with cooldowns and mixing them with light attacks, probably the closest example is tes blades (except that it has a targeted fighting game, due to the conditions of the game on the phone). I suggested leaving non target and doing approximately the same as Tes Blades, but with the conditions teso. And a few words about the second panel. Tell me why you need a second panel when it is used not for the sake of a second weapon, but for the sake of buffs? With the same success, you can simply remove the second panel from the game, and make 10 skills on the first panel. Nothing will change at the same time.

What are you even talking about? Bar swap does let you use two different weapons, including the skills for those specific weapons.

For example, a common PVP setup is Detro/Restro, with Crushing Shock (Destro Skill) on the front bar and Radiating Regen (Restro Skill) on the back bar, Among countless other examples of utilizing multiple weapon types in builds.

Not to mention, console players literally don't have 10 buttons to push to remove the back bar.

And cooldowns would be atrocious.

All in all, it sounds like maybe this game isn't for you, which is fine.

Artem_gig

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

people are saying that TESO with cooldowns would turn into WoW. Why all of a sudden? For you, apart from all other MMOs, only WoW exists? Have you tried at least playing single-player games? When I was talking about fighting with cooldowns and mixing them with light attacks, probably the closest example is tes blades (except that it has a targeted fighting game, due to the conditions of the game on the phone). I suggested leaving non target and doing approximately the same as Tes Blades, but with the conditions teso. And a few words about the second panel. Tell me why you need a second panel when it is used not for the sake of a second weapon, but for the sake of buffs? With the same success, you can simply remove the second panel from the game, and make 10 skills on the first panel. Nothing will change at the same time.

What are you even talking about? Bar swap does let you use two different weapons, including the skills for those specific weapons.

For example, a common PVP setup is Detro/Restro, with Crushing Shock (Destro Skill) on the front bar and Radiating Regen (Restro Skill) on the back bar, Among countless other examples of utilizing multiple weapon types in builds.

Not to mention, console players literally don't have 10 buttons to push to remove the back bar.

And cooldowns would be atrocious.

All in all, it sounds like maybe this game isn't for you, which is fine.

You don't use spam skills on both panels, the second panel is reserved for buffs. Yes, you use the second type of weapon, but not as a weapon, but as a buff. You can't fight with daggers, and then immediately switch to two-handed and not lose damage. Because obviously the two-handed is reserved for the "Momentum" skill, and not for hitting with this sword. You are right that with a healing staff, you really use a healing staff. But it's still a buff, not another way to deal damage.

jaws343

Artem_gig wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Artem_gig wrote: »

people are saying that TESO with cooldowns would turn into WoW. Why all of a sudden? For you, apart from all other MMOs, only WoW exists? Have you tried at least playing single-player games? When I was talking about fighting with cooldowns and mixing them with light attacks, probably the closest example is tes blades (except that it has a targeted fighting game, due to the conditions of the game on the phone). I suggested leaving non target and doing approximately the same as Tes Blades, but with the conditions teso. And a few words about the second panel. Tell me why you need a second panel when it is used not for the sake of a second weapon, but for the sake of buffs? With the same success, you can simply remove the second panel from the game, and make 10 skills on the first panel. Nothing will change at the same time.

What are you even talking about? Bar swap does let you use two different weapons, including the skills for those specific weapons.

For example, a common PVP setup is Detro/Restro, with Crushing Shock (Destro Skill) on the front bar and Radiating Regen (Restro Skill) on the back bar, Among countless other examples of utilizing multiple weapon types in builds.

Not to mention, console players literally don't have 10 buttons to push to remove the back bar.

And cooldowns would be atrocious.

All in all, it sounds like maybe this game isn't for you, which is fine.

You don't use spam skills on both panels, the second panel is reserved for buffs. Yes, you use the second type of weapon, but not as a weapon, but as a buff. You can't fight with daggers, and then immediately switch to two-handed and not lose damage. Because obviously the two-handed is reserved for the "Momentum" skill, and not for hitting with this sword. You are right that with a healing staff, you really use a healing staff. But it's still a buff, not another way to deal damage.

...?

My back bar has weapon skills on it, like Wall of Elements for example, or Twin Slashes and Blade Cloak. Or even Whirlwind as an execute ability backbarred with a two hand front bar.

Even bow, where backbar is skills like Snipe and Poison Arrow and front bar is Two hand or dual wield skills.

Just because you don't use two bars in a meaningful way doesn't mean that they cannot be used properly. (Also, none of the skills I listed that plenty of people use on their back bars are "buff" skills)

Artem_gig

And stop writing to me that this game is not for me, I went through all the single parts, starting from Tes Arena and ending with the relatively recent tes blades. So why should I suddenly stop playing teso? It's just that for me, the teso action was extremely faded compared to the singles (Although even in them fights are bad, but at least you can feel the struggle). And it's not normal for me that just one *** goblin from tes arena causes me more emotions than a whole bunch of NPCs from teso, which I'll spend half a second killing and immediately forget.