Hoping for more flexible trial guilds

Soarora

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

100k dps is NOT HARD to reach. Anyone getting into vet trials should be able to reach that. 100k does not require your gear be the latest and greatest top sets, 100k doesn't require mythics, 100k doesn't even require gold gear. Top parses are 130k these days.

I'm gonna disagree on this one. You do not need 100k to clear a vet trial and it is hard to reach. I fought to get a 100k parse on my warden and it took multiple changes and multiple people and multiple patches and multiple parses for me to get there, and of course that was after I got into vet content and thus had access to veteran gear-- such as perfected whorl and perfected dsa staff, which I both use. My magDK DPS 100k was easy to get, sure, but it's a magDK and I think I only got 100k on PTS, 80k/90k or so on live. My arcanist was a bit of a struggle too but I figured it out eventually, much faster than my warden haha. All of which with completely golded gear. 100k is hard. 110k is sweaty. 120k is hardcore dps main. 130k is 1%.

And that's just now. Getting into being a DPS, the second time, my parse was like 56k or so...

100k now will clear basically any hard mode now except xs. Base for that is typically around 110k acounring for deaths and not perfect up times. 90k is the base for hard modes progs in most of my guilds. Open hm is about 105k. Trifecta is around 115k.

I’ve DPS’d a couple HMs with builds that’d be about 90k parse, probably more like 95k, but less than 100k. vSS HM, MoL HM, Oax HM, Bahsei HM prog, KA HM… and wasn’t carried. So I agree that 90k being the base for HM progs is fine, except for Xalvakka and DSR probably. If 90k is enough for a HM, 100k is more than enough for vet.

xilfxlegion

me_ming wrote: »

I'm just wondering, it seems like so much of the trial guilds I have been in the past few months (I'm a returning player, started playing again Aug 2022, stopped playing around March/April, then back again last June-- yes because of the new chapter) are looking for parses that has like 100k parse to be a part of their vet trial runs. So I'm really curious is having a 100k DPS that important to complete a trial? HM or not? Yeah, yeah, I know it's not necessary to have 100k DPS, but from my experience most of this guilds use that as a gauge for someone to join the harder content? Like some guilds will say if you do 50k you can only do vCraglorn trials, at 80K you can do this trial, and so on and so forth. Look, I'm not trying to tell how guilds should conduct their runs. But most of these groups aren't score pushing anyway, these are mostly mid-tier guilds just wanting to complete content. And I get it time is important, what's the point of allowing someone with low dps to be even in that content, but it's just weird to me, because back when there was only vCraglorn, you can complete that with only 9k DPS (not kidding), if you were hitting 20k dps, you're already in the score pushing zone. And people learned those trials in weeks, sometimes up to months, I'm looking at you Mantikora and HM Warrior in Hel Ra-- mostly Mantikora.

How is someone who has completed HM vSO with speed and no death run in 2015 less experience than someone who parsed with a dummy for 100k DPS, who wears gear they won't be using in vDSR anyway? Like I said, it's not my intention to tell trial guilds how to run their guilds, I just think so much bias of this 100k DPS is alienating people who would be interested in learning the mechanics in harder content. That is why right now the trial community is just dying in ESO, because most of the vets have [temporarily-- maybe] stopped playing this game and instead of allowing players to learn these harder content, they send people to normal trials because that was suppose to be a training run. Normal mode is NOT training run. So much mechanic is lost in normal mode, people don't have the chance to learn. And also, just saying that vMoL was first introduced to the game, the requirement was a 20 to 25k DPS and a completion of vMA. Which I think was more reasonable, because completing vMA back then meant you know how to actually navigate and survive while doing actual damage. Not saying that vMA still would be a good gauge to this day, but that was better than someone who is wearing a parse gear they will not use in the actual trial and fighting a stationary dummy with buffs they most likely won't have in actuality. I mean, I don't see people posting their parses at the end of boss fights anymore.

For me, if ESO's trial and vet dungeon community was to go back to it's glory days-- or at least close to it, it's best that guilds should be more flexible in their roles. Be more patient with people who are trying to learn or people who have low DPS. Low DPS doesn't mean you won't complete a dungeon. It just means you need people to be on the same page. Oh yeah, that's one more thing, people don't time their ults now? Based on my experience since being back in the game, people just throw ults when they feel like it. There are so many times I get confused by a Warhorn was used when it was that was not the time to use it. Or why no one uses Warhorn at the beginning at the fight and ult damp the boss. I think so much of the veteran trial guilds these days have high DPS parses but very little understand of group dynamics.

I could be wrong, after all, I'm really just comparing my experience of well coordinated groups then (like back in 2015-2017), and trial guilds now that require their members to have 100k DPS to even join vet content.

if you are on xbox na --- apply to the toxic guild --- they are awesome despite the name and i have already gotten three skins with them i had no chance of getting in my other guilds
they do trials runs for all levels of players and teach trials also . and unlike a lot of guilds i have been in they dont bust your stones for not knowing mechanics - they actually help you.

sarahthes

Soarora wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

100k dps is NOT HARD to reach. Anyone getting into vet trials should be able to reach that. 100k does not require your gear be the latest and greatest top sets, 100k doesn't require mythics, 100k doesn't even require gold gear. Top parses are 130k these days.

I'm gonna disagree on this one. You do not need 100k to clear a vet trial and it is hard to reach. I fought to get a 100k parse on my warden and it took multiple changes and multiple people and multiple patches and multiple parses for me to get there, and of course that was after I got into vet content and thus had access to veteran gear-- such as perfected whorl and perfected dsa staff, which I both use. My magDK DPS 100k was easy to get, sure, but it's a magDK and I think I only got 100k on PTS, 80k/90k or so on live. My arcanist was a bit of a struggle too but I figured it out eventually, much faster than my warden haha. All of which with completely golded gear. 100k is hard. 110k is sweaty. 120k is hardcore dps main. 130k is 1%.

And that's just now. Getting into being a DPS, the second time, my parse was like 56k or so...

100k now will clear basically any hard mode now except xs. Base for that is typically around 110k acounring for deaths and not perfect up times. 90k is the base for hard modes progs in most of my guilds. Open hm is about 105k. Trifecta is around 115k.

I’ve DPS’d a couple HMs with builds that’d be about 90k parse, probably more like 95k, but less than 100k. vSS HM, MoL HM, Oax HM, Bahsei HM prog, KA HM… and wasn’t carried. So I agree that 90k being the base for HM progs is fine, except for Xalvakka and DSR probably. If 90k is enough for a HM, 100k is more than enough for vet.

Raid leads may put in specific damage thresholds because of the type of run they want to do. Like, they may want to gryphon skip on Yandir HM, for example, which requires a fair bit more single target damage than simply clearing does.

Same with vMoL HM. The raid lead may want a pad 3 or even pad 2 burn. Lokke HM, they may want to atro skip and only do tomb 1 on all phases. They may want to use speed strats on Nahvi (leaving the statues alive, having an OOT or healer help with stacking adds).

It's not really whether the content can be cleared with lower DPS. It's whether it can be cleared with the strats the raid lead wants to use. And the lead gets to define those parameters, that's part of why they're the lead.

Soarora

sarahthes wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

FantasticFreddie wrote: »

100k dps is NOT HARD to reach. Anyone getting into vet trials should be able to reach that. 100k does not require your gear be the latest and greatest top sets, 100k doesn't require mythics, 100k doesn't even require gold gear. Top parses are 130k these days.

I'm gonna disagree on this one. You do not need 100k to clear a vet trial and it is hard to reach. I fought to get a 100k parse on my warden and it took multiple changes and multiple people and multiple patches and multiple parses for me to get there, and of course that was after I got into vet content and thus had access to veteran gear-- such as perfected whorl and perfected dsa staff, which I both use. My magDK DPS 100k was easy to get, sure, but it's a magDK and I think I only got 100k on PTS, 80k/90k or so on live. My arcanist was a bit of a struggle too but I figured it out eventually, much faster than my warden haha. All of which with completely golded gear. 100k is hard. 110k is sweaty. 120k is hardcore dps main. 130k is 1%.

And that's just now. Getting into being a DPS, the second time, my parse was like 56k or so...

100k now will clear basically any hard mode now except xs. Base for that is typically around 110k acounring for deaths and not perfect up times. 90k is the base for hard modes progs in most of my guilds. Open hm is about 105k. Trifecta is around 115k.

I’ve DPS’d a couple HMs with builds that’d be about 90k parse, probably more like 95k, but less than 100k. vSS HM, MoL HM, Oax HM, Bahsei HM prog, KA HM… and wasn’t carried. So I agree that 90k being the base for HM progs is fine, except for Xalvakka and DSR probably. If 90k is enough for a HM, 100k is more than enough for vet.

Raid leads may put in specific damage thresholds because of the type of run they want to do. Like, they may want to gryphon skip on Yandir HM, for example, which requires a fair bit more single target damage than simply clearing does.

Same with vMoL HM. The raid lead may want a pad 3 or even pad 2 burn. Lokke HM, they may want to atro skip and only do tomb 1 on all phases. They may want to use speed strats on Nahvi (leaving the statues alive, having an OOT or healer help with stacking adds).

It's not really whether the content can be cleared with lower DPS. It's whether it can be cleared with the strats the raid lead wants to use. And the lead gets to define those parameters, that's part of why they're the lead.

Well yeah, of course, I agree. The lead can set any paramaters they want. I’m responding to someone saying 100k is easy and everyone who starts vet content should be able to hit it with personal experience.