I just can't get into the combat in ESO

Adam_Chattaway

I've tried and tried but more and more it's putting me off the game. I dislike the million different armour sets, I reall dislike the spammy combat, having to switch weps, upkeeps tons of dots it the most awful feeling of all mmo's I've played. Even with the oak ring and 1 bar It doesn't feel nice to play. Arcanist was a bit less complex with the builder spender but it's also a bit boring. I honestly at this rate would have preferred ESO to just be tab target with proper mmo rotations not DOT upkeep manager 2023. There no nameplate icons for debuffs, buffs, dots etc. UI is horrible to read. In PVP people are just spam rolling and doing who knows what to evade dmg 90% of the time then using giga builds to 2 shot you out of nowhere.

jaws343

There seems to be this increasingly incessant idea that every game has to cater to the whims of any person who attempts to play it.

I played Witcher 3 for about 40 minutes and decided that the combat wasn't for me. So... I uninstalled the game and played something that I enjoyed more. Same for plenty of other games. All without fanfare.

Not all games are for all people. And that is fine. Accepting that and moving on to other games is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. My Gamepass history is littered with games I didn't care for, games I barely started playing, etc. It isn't revelatory.

Adam_Chattaway

jaws343 wrote: »

There seems to be this increasingly incessant idea that every game has to cater to the whims of any person who attempts to play it.

I played Witcher 3 for about 40 minutes and decided that the combat wasn't for me. So... I uninstalled the game and played something that I enjoyed more. Same for plenty of other games. All without fanfare.

Not all games are for all people. And that is fine. Accepting that and moving on to other games is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. My Gamepass history is littered with games I didn't care for, games I barely started playing, etc. It isn't revelatory.

Well It's strange how ESO has combat nothing like any elder scrolls game before it, yet has the name and the world, which is the reason I bought it int he first place. Why is there these silly cringe classes? why is templar weak and bad animations after 11 years? why is there no ES style classless system where you can truly pick any ability you want and make youre own style of play rather than being magika or stamina locked to skills and trees? why is the god awful Light attack animation cancelling a thing? (because they couldn't fix the issue and left it in)

Also you make a new class and you have to redo thousands of hours of grind, FFXIV lets your 1 char, your 1 and only char you make be and do everything, ESO a new class comes out and many people are put off even making it from having to start from 0, redo every quest, farm every skyshard, re level world skills etc. Why was ESO never given the 1 char classless system? it if anything is the best IP int he entire world for doing such a system...

I've seem unskilled players at max level doing 10k dps, while players using the correct gear and skills doing 120k dps. That is outrageous, that is FAR too much of a gap. But it's not just gear, it's the insane high level skill ceiling you need to play ESO at a top level which makes the average player feel completely useless.

Braffin

@jaws343 is completely right on this tho.

Besides that: eso isn't exactly a new game, so there were enough possibilities to learn something about it before buying.

Adam_Chattaway

Braffin wrote: »

@jaws343 is completely right on this tho.

Besides that: eso isn't exactly a new game, so there were enough possibilities to learn something about it before buying.

I played in Alpha.
Join Date: Jan 8, 2014.

Braffin

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

@jaws343 is completely right on this tho.

Besides that: eso isn't exactly a new game, so there were enough possibilities to learn something about it before buying.

I played in Alpha.

So you're a long-term ranter and veteran skyrimist then?

Then you already should know, that proper LA weaving isn't necessary in more than 90% of the game (everything except trifectas and scorepushing is doable without it).

To get some viable builds, you can just look after suggestion from various sources. You don't have to do this work for yourself.

Adam_Chattaway

Braffin wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

@jaws343 is completely right on this tho.

Besides that: eso isn't exactly a new game, so there were enough possibilities to learn something about it before buying.

I played in Alpha.

So you're a long-term ranter and veteran skyrimist then?

Then you already should know, that proper LA weaving isn't necessary in more than 90% of the game (everything except trifectas and scorepushing is doable without it).

To get some viable builds, you can just look after suggestion from various sources. You don't have to do this work for yourself.

Take for example Arcanist, Every build I looked up when I started that class NOT ONE build guide even had the new arcanist channel bean dps skill on the bar. It was all destro staff stuff etc. So imagine all these builds telling you to play the new class like every other class - 1 or two arcanist skills for buffs. That doesn't feel good. And in PVP LA weaving can make a huge difference.

Meh maybe I have played too long and you've not played long enough.

Braffin

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Braffin wrote: »

@jaws343 is completely right on this tho.

Besides that: eso isn't exactly a new game, so there were enough possibilities to learn something about it before buying.

I played in Alpha.

So you're a long-term ranter and veteran skyrimist then?

Then you already should know, that proper LA weaving isn't necessary in more than 90% of the game (everything except trifectas and scorepushing is doable without it).

To get some viable builds, you can just look after suggestion from various sources. You don't have to do this work for yourself.

Take for example Arcanist, Every build I looked up when I started that class NOT ONE build guide even had the new arcanist channel bean dps skill on the bar. It was all destro staff stuff etc. So imagine all these builds telling you to play the new class like every other class - 1 or two arcanist skills for buffs. That doesn't feel good. And in PVP LA weaving can make a huge difference.

Meh maybe I have played too long and you've not played long enough.

No idea where you look for builds, but fatecarver is quite mandatory for arcanist dps at present.

Well, I'm playing this game as long as you. But I simply don't dislike the combat.

Amottica

I wonder what the purpose of posting this is. You dislike so much of the core design of ESO and Zenimax will not be changing those to suit your desires coupled with the forums being filled with people who mostly like the game, I am not sure what is expected to come out of this thread.

Regardless, I do hope you find a game that fits what you are interested in. dd

Ingenon

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

I've tried and tried but more and more it's putting me off the game. I dislike the million different armour sets, I reall dislike the spammy combat, having to switch weps, upkeeps tons of dots it the most awful feeling of all mmo's I've played. Even with the oak ring and 1 bar It doesn't feel nice to play. Arcanist was a bit less complex with the builder spender but it's also a bit boring. I honestly at this rate would have preferred ESO to just be tab target with proper mmo rotations not DOT upkeep manager 2023. There no nameplate icons for debuffs, buffs, dots etc. UI is horrible to read. In PVP people are just spam rolling and doing who knows what to evade dmg 90% of the time then using giga builds to 2 shot you out of nowhere.

This build allows me to complete veteran dungeons and veteran trials as a DPS with folks in guild. ESO One Bar PvE Magicka Sorcerer Build

Also works for solo arenas and solo WB. But not trifectas or score pushing. LA weaving not required.

But you have already said that this kind of build doesn't feel nice to play for you.

Best of luck finding a game that you like to play!

freespirit

My join date is exactly the same as yours, I have taken no notable breaks.

When Warden came out I started a new character from scratch, same with Necromancer and recently with Arcanist. What quests I do, zones I play varies depending on how I feel, I always do the Harborage Quests because easy skill points. Many of my max lvl characters levelled 1-50 in below 50 pvp, to get extra skill points fast I would do Public Dungeon group events.

I never follow builds and find the levelling process neccessary to learn about a new class. I alway unlock class skills first to try them out and usually end up with more of them than generic skills(like weapon or guild skills) on my bars at the end.

I know other MMO's offer tokens to fully level from scratch in one hit, I would never use that but would not object if ESO added that option.

My main is Templar, has been since late 2014, people say they are useless, I beg to differ, she can solo much of the group stuff in the game! These days she has Bastian with her as her own personal tank and now she can solo more stuff, that in its self shows differing opinions, most people say Isobel is the better Tank, I prefer Bastian!

It does sound like ESO is maybe never going to suit your style but you've certainly given it a chance, given your join date. 😀

Soarora

Just… play a different game if you don’t like ESO. No one’s forcing you to play. Yeah, the combat is different than other elder scrolls games but it’s an RPGMMO. Also, classes in elder scrolls exist in all but Skyrim…
Maybe it could have been different, a casual-only, classless, only overland multiplayer elder scrolls game. But it’s far, far too late for that. If ESO changes its entire combat, it’ll be a different game. ZOS would lose more players than it’d gain.

Adam_Chattaway

Soarora wrote: »

Just… play a different game if you don’t like ESO. No one’s forcing you to play. Yeah, the combat is different than other elder scrolls games but it’s an RPGMMO. Also, classes in elder scrolls exist in all but Skyrim…
Maybe it could have been different, a casual-only, classless, only overland multiplayer elder scrolls game. But it’s far, far too late for that. If ESO changes its entire combat, it’ll be a different game. ZOS would lose more players than it’d gain.

I've followed build guids, wore the gear they suggest etc and I'm lucky if I can reach 25-30k dps. Yet people on benchmarks etc do 100-120k dps. This is not normal for an RPGMMO. Take WOW, FFXIV, SWTOR, LOTRO. Skill is a thing but once the rotation is down on their class its mostly down to gear, and going from letsa say tier 1 to tier 2 gear is not much of a gain. ESO going from 20-30k dps to 120k dps is just ridiculous. Take this to PVP and this is where 1 player is killing 10 solo...

AcadianPaladin

Overall, I quite like ESO. I hope you find a game that better suits your style.

CameraBeardThePirate

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Just… play a different game if you don’t like ESO. No one’s forcing you to play. Yeah, the combat is different than other elder scrolls games but it’s an RPGMMO. Also, classes in elder scrolls exist in all but Skyrim…
Maybe it could have been different, a casual-only, classless, only overland multiplayer elder scrolls game. But it’s far, far too late for that. If ESO changes its entire combat, it’ll be a different game. ZOS would lose more players than it’d gain.

I've followed build guids, wore the gear they suggest etc and I'm lucky if I can reach 25-30k dps. Yet people on benchmarks etc do 100-120k dps. This is not normal for an RPGMMO. Take WOW, FFXIV, SWTOR, LOTRO. Skill is a thing but once the rotation is down on their class its mostly down to gear, and going from letsa say tier 1 to tier 2 gear is not much of a gain. ESO going from 20-30k dps to 120k dps is just ridiculous. Take this to PVP and this is where 1 player is killing 10 solo...

Gee it's almost like the biggest factor in ESO's combat is your own skill and practice in your rotation.

Gear matters way less than people like to spout online. A perfect rotation in bad gear will still pull great numbers, and putting on great gear doesn't magically make you parse better.

In PvP, a highly skilled player can mop the floor with the competition wearing 0 sets - just max level "plain" gear.

Also, parses are done on the Trial dummy. If your 20k-30k was on an actual boss or a dummy other than the Trial Dummy, then it isn't accurate. Trial dummies give you basically every buff in the game to make your parse standardized and will GREATLY increase dps numbers.

merpins

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Just… play a different game if you don’t like ESO. No one’s forcing you to play. Yeah, the combat is different than other elder scrolls games but it’s an RPGMMO. Also, classes in elder scrolls exist in all but Skyrim…
Maybe it could have been different, a casual-only, classless, only overland multiplayer elder scrolls game. But it’s far, far too late for that. If ESO changes its entire combat, it’ll be a different game. ZOS would lose more players than it’d gain.

I've followed build guids, wore the gear they suggest etc and I'm lucky if I can reach 25-30k dps. Yet people on benchmarks etc do 100-120k dps. This is not normal for an RPGMMO. Take WOW, FFXIV, SWTOR, LOTRO. Skill is a thing but once the rotation is down on their class its mostly down to gear, and going from letsa say tier 1 to tier 2 gear is not much of a gain. ESO going from 20-30k dps to 120k dps is just ridiculous. Take this to PVP and this is where 1 player is killing 10 solo...

PVE builds are very different from PVP builds. PVE relies on crit rate and crit damage to hit those highs, so if you were to take one of those top-end PVE builds into PVP, you'd get absolutely destroyed. The two game modes are very different, so you need to build your characters differently for each game mode. The people that are solo killing 10 are people that understand the mechanics of PVP and built their character with the right stuff for it to work in that game mode. You can't hit 120k dps on a trial dummy with a PVP build, and not every PVE build is right for every person. For example, I hate using Relequen.

Zodiarkslayer

jaws343 wrote: »

There seems to be this increasingly incessant idea that every game has to cater to the whims of any person who attempts to play it.

I played Witcher 3 for about 40 minutes and decided that the combat wasn't for me. So... I uninstalled the game and played something that I enjoyed more. Same for plenty of other games. All without fanfare.

Not all games are for all people. And that is fine. Accepting that and moving on to other games is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. My Gamepass history is littered with games I didn't care for, games I barely started playing, etc. It isn't revelatory.

Agree in general. Good post.

But man, Witcher 3 is a masterpiece. The combat is the most immersive sword fighting I have ever seen in any game. Not ultra realistic, mind you. But such a direct ebb and flow of actions in combat is rare.

LittlePinkDot

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

I've tried and tried but more and more it's putting me off the game. I dislike the million different armour sets, I reall dislike the spammy combat, having to switch weps, upkeeps tons of dots it the most awful feeling of all mmo's I've played. Even with the oak ring and 1 bar It doesn't feel nice to play. Arcanist was a bit less complex with the builder spender but it's also a bit boring. I honestly at this rate would have preferred ESO to just be tab target with proper mmo rotations not DOT upkeep manager 2023. There no nameplate icons for debuffs, buffs, dots etc. UI is horrible to read. In PVP people are just spam rolling and doing who knows what to evade dmg 90% of the time then using giga builds to 2 shot you out of nowhere.

mobility is important in PVP.
Who needs tab targeting? There's no tab button on a PS5 controller lol. You should be able to free aim like you would in a game like Call of Duty.
MOUSE AND KEYBOARD SUCK.

I haven't been killed in 2 hits "out of nowhere" in a long time. You probably need more health and critical resistance.

There's nothing wrong with bar swapping, it means you get to use 2 different weapons.

As for the maintaining buffs, I can see how that can be annoying. I try to choose a combination of the right class with the right skills and sets to get as many buffs passively as I can.
The skill Camo Hunter is a good example of a set it and forget it skill that gives major savagery.

ixthUA

Tanking and healing is fine though, and you get instant dungeon queue.

jaws343

Zodiarkslayer wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

There seems to be this increasingly incessant idea that every game has to cater to the whims of any person who attempts to play it.

I played Witcher 3 for about 40 minutes and decided that the combat wasn't for me. So... I uninstalled the game and played something that I enjoyed more. Same for plenty of other games. All without fanfare.

Not all games are for all people. And that is fine. Accepting that and moving on to other games is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. My Gamepass history is littered with games I didn't care for, games I barely started playing, etc. It isn't revelatory.

Agree in general. Good post.

But man, Witcher 3 is a masterpiece. The combat is the most immersive sword fighting I have ever seen in any game. Not ultra realistic, mind you. But such a direct ebb and flow of actions in combat is rare.

Been meaning to get back to it honestly. I think at the time I was looking for more skills based combat (like DAI).

Adam_Chattaway

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Just… play a different game if you don’t like ESO. No one’s forcing you to play. Yeah, the combat is different than other elder scrolls games but it’s an RPGMMO. Also, classes in elder scrolls exist in all but Skyrim…
Maybe it could have been different, a casual-only, classless, only overland multiplayer elder scrolls game. But it’s far, far too late for that. If ESO changes its entire combat, it’ll be a different game. ZOS would lose more players than it’d gain.

I've followed build guids, wore the gear they suggest etc and I'm lucky if I can reach 25-30k dps. Yet people on benchmarks etc do 100-120k dps. This is not normal for an RPGMMO. Take WOW, FFXIV, SWTOR, LOTRO. Skill is a thing but once the rotation is down on their class its mostly down to gear, and going from letsa say tier 1 to tier 2 gear is not much of a gain. ESO going from 20-30k dps to 120k dps is just ridiculous. Take this to PVP and this is where 1 player is killing 10 solo...

Gee it's almost like the biggest factor in ESO's combat is your own skill and practice in your rotation.

Gear matters way less than people like to spout online. A perfect rotation in bad gear will still pull great numbers, and putting on great gear doesn't magically make you parse better.

In PvP, a highly skilled player can mop the floor with the competition wearing 0 sets - just max level "plain" gear.

Also, parses are done on the Trial dummy. If your 20k-30k was on an actual boss or a dummy other than the Trial Dummy, then it isn't accurate. Trial dummies give you basically every buff in the game to make your parse standardized and will GREATLY increase dps numbers.

exactly 30k dps on boss trial dummy, wearing all suggested gear and using my rotation as perfectly as I could manage with addons telling me when to refresh dots. so how people go from 30-120k? I dont get it. I can play a DPS in FFXIV and pull top dps on parses vs equal geared and often same class players. ESO is just awkward and weird.

boi_anachronism_

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

CameraBeardThePirate wrote: »

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Just… play a different game if you don’t like ESO. No one’s forcing you to play. Yeah, the combat is different than other elder scrolls games but it’s an RPGMMO. Also, classes in elder scrolls exist in all but Skyrim…
Maybe it could have been different, a casual-only, classless, only overland multiplayer elder scrolls game. But it’s far, far too late for that. If ESO changes its entire combat, it’ll be a different game. ZOS would lose more players than it’d gain.

I've followed build guids, wore the gear they suggest etc and I'm lucky if I can reach 25-30k dps. Yet people on benchmarks etc do 100-120k dps. This is not normal for an RPGMMO. Take WOW, FFXIV, SWTOR, LOTRO. Skill is a thing but once the rotation is down on their class its mostly down to gear, and going from letsa say tier 1 to tier 2 gear is not much of a gain. ESO going from 20-30k dps to 120k dps is just ridiculous. Take this to PVP and this is where 1 player is killing 10 solo...

Gee it's almost like the biggest factor in ESO's combat is your own skill and practice in your rotation.

Gear matters way less than people like to spout online. A perfect rotation in bad gear will still pull great numbers, and putting on great gear doesn't magically make you parse better.

In PvP, a highly skilled player can mop the floor with the competition wearing 0 sets - just max level "plain" gear.

Also, parses are done on the Trial dummy. If your 20k-30k was on an actual boss or a dummy other than the Trial Dummy, then it isn't accurate. Trial dummies give you basically every buff in the game to make your parse standardized and will GREATLY increase dps numbers.

exactly 30k dps on boss trial dummy, wearing all suggested gear and using my rotation as perfectly as I could manage with addons telling me when to refresh dots. so how people go from 30-120k? I dont get it. I can play a DPS in FFXIV and pull top dps on parses vs equal geared and often same class players. ESO is just awkward and weird.

You do it with practice. Loads of it. Hrs and hrs. I dont have fancy add-ons, im on console. I started a 2 years ago, came from skyrim and morrowind. Never played an mmo in my life. I sent my parse to experienced players and took their feedback. That how i got from 20k to 111k. Eso is heavily skill based and requires commitment. I initially found it awkward as well because of my gaming background but after putting the time in the combat is my absolute favorite part of the game, bar none.

KlauthWarthog

<insert mandatory "that's odd, I can't get out of combat" joke here>

Anyway... the combat system in this game is a weird thing, with a ton of technical shortcomings. You either love it, hate it, ignore it or put up with it. I put up with it, got a couple 90k-ish dps characters after some time humping dummies.
If you do intend to put up with the combat system but hit a roadblock, well, post some screenshots with data from Combat Metrics here, and people will be able and willing to point out what the issues are, and how to fix them.

belial5221_ESO

" I can play a DPS in FFXIV and pull top dps on parses vs equal geared and often same class players. ESO is just awkward and weird. "

It takes time and effort to get good at the game,and probably took some times to learn how to play that style.You need to have great coordination,timing,and hopefully good low latency inet and gaming PC.Games that you jsut slap on gear,press one or two buttons,and hit top DPS is a cheese way,no skill really needed.Not all games have playstyles for everyone,but the more you learn complex combat games,the more you exercise and train your coordination,precision,detailed observations for other skills even outside the game.

LittlePinkDot

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

There seems to be this increasingly incessant idea that every game has to cater to the whims of any person who attempts to play it.

I played Witcher 3 for about 40 minutes and decided that the combat wasn't for me. So... I uninstalled the game and played something that I enjoyed more. Same for plenty of other games. All without fanfare.

Not all games are for all people. And that is fine. Accepting that and moving on to other games is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. My Gamepass history is littered with games I didn't care for, games I barely started playing, etc. It isn't revelatory.

Well It's strange how ESO has combat nothing like any elder scrolls game before it, yet has the name and the world, which is the reason I bought it int he first place. Why is there these silly cringe classes? why is templar weak and bad animations after 11 years? why is there no ES style classless system where you can truly pick any ability you want and make youre own style of play rather than being magika or stamina locked to skills and trees? why is the god awful Light attack animation cancelling a thing? (because they couldn't fix the issue and left it in)

Also you make a new class and you have to redo thousands of hours of grind, FFXIV lets your 1 char, your 1 and only char you make be and do everything, ESO a new class comes out and many people are put off even making it from having to start from 0, redo every quest, farm every skyshard, re level world skills etc. Why was ESO never given the 1 char classless system? it if anything is the best IP int he entire world for doing such a system...

I've seem unskilled players at max level doing 10k dps, while players using the correct gear and skills doing 120k dps. That is outrageous, that is FAR too much of a gap. But it's not just gear, it's the insane high level skill ceiling you need to play ESO at a top level which makes the average player feel completely useless.

You don't need to do every quest and every achievement with every character.
Only if a quest is required for a skill tree do you need it.
You can just skip most everything and power level via Alikr Dolmen runs and normal dungeons until you reach level 50.
Wear training trait armour and weapons and use experience scrolls.
If I have the time and the gold I can finish a character in a few days.
Fyi I'm a Pvp'er almost exclusively. I don't delve much into vet dungeons or care about some score. I only attempt to pug vet DLC when I really really want a particular monster helm. And I only tank or heal.
*Yawn* I can't be bothered with some repetitive rotation I can't even relax with.

This being said, the top tiers of PVE players have very organized groups that have synergized armour sets to benefit eachother with the most buffs, so they can together achieve maximum DPS.
They even change their sets and skills between bosses in the same dungeon.
It's ridiculous to me. What a bother.

AlterBlika

If you don't like it then don't play it lol

Adam_Chattaway

AlterBlika wrote: »

If you don't like it then don't play it lol

I've already paid for it. Not an option.

Marcus684

Early release player here and I can understand your feelings about PvE rotations. I've always hated the concert-pianist finger dance required for top dps parsing so for years I mostly avoided trials and 4-man dungeons. This changed with the addition of the Oakensoul ring. I put together a heavy attack 1-bar magsorc build I found online and can now parse around 80k on the trial dummy with even my middling rotation skills, so now I can jump into normal dungeons and trials and focus more on mechanics rather than juggling DoTs, which I find much more enjoyable.

You say that 1-bar builds don't "feel nice" but Arcanist feels boring, so maybe you need to try out other classes until you find that sweet spot.

CameraBeardThePirate

Adam_Chattaway wrote: »

AlterBlika wrote: »

If you don't like it then don't play it lol

I've already paid for it. Not an option.

It is an option though. You're not obligated to play something you spent money on, just encouraged.

SandandStars

op has some fair points though.

of the x-thousand armor sets, less than 10 are viable in pvp.

there’s really very little diversity of options for competitive pvp, considering the sprawling junkyard of outdated, useless sets and gear.

want to play a necromancer or magsorc in competitive pvp?

you’ll do fine, so long as you avoid all other classes.

CameraBeardThePirate

SandandStars wrote: »

op has some fair points though.

of the x-thousand armor sets, less than 10 are viable in pvp.

there’s really very little diversity of options for competitive pvp, considering the sprawling junkyard of outdated, useless sets and gear.

want to play a necromancer or magsorc in competitive pvp?

you’ll do fine, so long as you avoid all other classes.

I could pretty easily name way more than 10 sets that are viable in PvP.

The problem is that people are lazy. They want easy damage from builds that already exist and are run by tons of people. The DoT proc setup that's running rampant is far from the only viable build - it's just braindead easy to play and proven to be effective so everyone uses it.

There are a lot of viable sets in PvP - there's just a lot more sets that aren't viable.