Question about veteran dungeon

wilykcat

Hi there,

I have 500 CP points and a mostly stamina and some magic character build. Players sometimes make fun of me based on the armor/gear and CP point amounts. I'm doing veteran dungeons to get achievements and for fun. There are some dungeons I never even did yet and once I end up in those after queue I do the quests for them. Unfortunately those dungeons never get completed each time due to someone rage quitting. Then they blame me for it because most of the time I'm the only one below 1000 cp points and hasn't done trials yet or what ever to get the better gear. I tried joining guilds but that didn't work. I barely make the high requirements some players have.

How do I get better gear in this game?
Do i have to do trials or raids to do so?
Do I need to be in a guild?
What's the ideal amount of cp needed for any veteran dungeons?

I only have one main character that is max level and only has 500 cp points, wears leather armor, mostly stamina and has some magic build, dual wield melee dps abilites. I previously did a few veteran dungeons before and they were not too difficult.

I'm not sure if I qualify for veteran dungeons or not.

Braffin

There is a lot of viable gear outside of raids. So no, you neither have to do trials nor joining a guild to do vet dungeons. Maybe also do a dummy-parse to get a feeling for your dps, and wirk on your build from there.

Also 500 CP are viable, although of course more makes the run much easier. "Ideal" would be around 1400 CP, so all relevant passives and slotables are active.

What's an absolutely no-go, especially without voice-chat, are players exploring a dungeon in vet for the first time. Get accustomed to the fights in normal mode first and then go for the clear in veteran mode. Otherwise you're wasting other peoples time.

Knowing mechanics is the most important part of a successful run. And sorry fir being blunt: Players which see the encounters the first time on vet are mostly a hindrance, because they are understandably overwhelmed as first-timers.

wilykcat

I queue for random veteran dungeon and there are only a small few that I never got completed. I also don't like discord and I prefer to not to use voice chat. I'm one of those people who learns from watching and doing (mimicking) others while in the actual dungeons. I learn the mechanics as I go.

I'm not trying to waste anyone's time.

Why 1400 cp? Is that a player's requirement or the official in-game one? It may take me several months to even get it that high since I don't play the game 24/7

What other content can increase it quickly?

the1andonlyskwex

With respect to gear, the most important thing is to be wearing complete sets in all blue or higher quality. If your gear is mix and matched from a bunch of different sets you're missing out on a lot of stats and other bonuses. In particular, beginners should be wearing two full 5 piece sets (and preferably either a mythic item or a 2 piece monster set in the remaining slots), because the final bonuses tend to make a big difference. More experienced players might experiment with having different (and sometimes partial) sets on their "front bar" and "back bar", but that requires a lot more thought to get right than just making sure you have two full sets equipped.

wilykcat

For a start I mostly got purple gear on. I never really payed attention to the sets. I do see the stats and it's all stamina based. I'm not sure about mythic or monster sets...

I just checked in game..
All my gear pieces are from different sets. Most are purple except for belt. The only two pieces of gear I have that are part of a set called Toothrow.

wilykcat

I had no idea that there are so many requirements for doing veteran dungeons. I thought anyone can do them. I'm sorry.

Braffin

wilykcat wrote: »

I queue for random veteran dungeon and there are only a small few that I never got completed. I also don't like discord and I prefer to not to use voice chat. I'm one of those people who learns from watching and doing (mimicking) others while in the actual dungeons. I learn the mechanics as I go.

I'm not trying to waste anyone's time.

Why 1400 cp? Is that a player's requirement or the official in-game one? It may take me several months to even get it that high since I don't play the game 24/7

What other content can increase it quickly?

The official requirement is level 50, no CP needed. Around 1400 CP is simply the point, when gaining more CP isn't actually improving your build anymore. But, as said before, 500 CP are fine. If you really want to raise them quickly, you can do skywatch or blackrose prison with a friend, while using XP-buffs. I wouldn't recommend that tho, as it's still an endless grind.

Nonetheless it remains a miracle to me why exactly you insist on doing your first steps in a dungeon on veteran mode. Sure, it's theoretically possible and you're free to play as you want. Other players are too tho and you already see where this ends: Either they kick you from group or ragequit themselves. That's not necessary.

It's also fine to refuse in participating in voice chat, but some sort of preparation, like watching a vid to learn mechanics, would be a good idea then. Or do you expect to breeze through every veteran dungeon without any knowledge of your build or the mechanics of the encounters? That won't happen and you will wipe a lot, wasting everyones time.

tim77

so you dont wear sets and have no idea about the mechanics, but join random vet queue?

pls dont do this...
better start with random normal queue

wilykcat

tim77 wrote: »

so you dont wear sets and have no idea about the mechanics, but join random vet queue?

pls dont do this...
better start with random normal queue

I learn the mechanics once I experience it for myself and follow along with what others are doing during the boss fight. Then I remember the mechanics the next time when I end up doing the dungeon again.

When watching an online gaming YouTube video, I sometimes have difficulty paying attention to those.

I've done most dungeons in normals long before my cp got to 500. In random dungeon queue it sometimes doesn't select certain dungeons and that's why I've never done those ones before. Even when selecting specific ones too. Once in a while that one shows up and then I have to complete it and get the achievements.

wilykcat

With the gear; the reason why I don't have a specific set equipped is because I didn't know those are required. The colors of the text and it has a number ( example: 970 stamina, 160cp) was the stuff I payed attention to when equipped the gear.

Next time, I will try paying more attention to the name of the gear piece instead of only to the colors and numbers on the UI.

Braffin

wilykcat wrote: »

With the gear; the reason why I don't have a specific set equipped is because I didn't know those are required. The colors of the text and it has a number ( example: 970 stamina, 160cp) was the stuff I payed attention to when equipped the gear.

Next time, I will try paying more attention to the name of the gear piece instead of only to the colors and numbers on the UI.

If you have any further questions about possible builds, just ask. I'm sure some of us can help you with that, if you share the class you're playing and some specifics about your preferred playstyle (melee/ranged, one-bar/two-bars and so on).

wilykcat

Templar melee dps with dual wield weapon skills. Mostly stamina skills/abilities.

Not sure what "one/two bars" are.

pelle412

People ragequit or get mad if you are preventing them from completing the content in a reasonable time. Before delving too much into veteran content, measure your damage output on an iron atronarch trial dummy. Most guilds have one. Ask around. If you kill the whole dummy and see something like 50k dps you're good for most veteran dungeons. If you want to venture into veteran DLC dungeons, look for a bit higher damage output. You should also educate yourself on what each dungeon expects of you. Most players are not ok with turning a farming run into an educational session.

Soarora

If you’re going to go into content blind please please please tell your groupmates at the start of the dungeon you haven’t been there before. People will explain mechanics to you. If you’re dying to mechanics without asking for an explanation of them people will get mad. I disagree with needing to do content on normal first since normal is usually a burn where you won’t even see the mechanics and strats on normal differ from strats on vet.

You definitely need sets… so unfortunately people are probably getting mad at your DPS for good reason.

Nowadays, it doesn’t matter if the set you’re wearing is magicka or stamina-based, however it’d be best for you to do mostly medium armor as it reduces the stamina cost of your abilities and increases your critical damage. Having one trial set is a good idea so you have minor slayer… you can farm normal trials in Craglorn. It’s not absolutely necessary though.

As for specific sets, pillar of nirn is a meta set and drops from falkreath hold. You can use it 3pc body/jewelry 2pc weapon to open up a spot for an arena weapon. Order’s wrath is a craftable set that you can pair it with, best put on body. Or if you’re going for lots of bleed damage you can use dro’zakar from moongrave fane. Maelstrom arena weapons are good choices. I’d suggest farming for them on normal if you go that route. 2H and inferno from there are popular backbar choices, with infused trait and berserker (weapon/spell damage) enchantment. You need a weapon AoE to proc your backbar enchantment while you’re on frontbar. If you’re going 1-bar only then use Oakensoul, if not then… don’t haha. Stormfist is a decent monster set choice. Zaan is better but it’s from scalecaller peak. Armor should be all divines, use the thief mundus, and gold out your weapons. Main hand nirnhoned fire, off hand precise poison.

Without combat metrics (addon) it’s going to be hard to deal with critical damage and penetration. I think it shows in the character menu but I’m not sure how accurate it is and you can’t really check mid-combat. Ideally, you have 125% critical damage and 18000 penetration while fully buffed and the enemy is fully debuffed. This is not really possible in dungeons but Skinnycheeks has a great diagram on his website for what CP to use. Go choose a random build and it’ll probably pop up. Could also just look at his builds and gear suggestions in general to be honest.

wilykcat

Then it's my fault that people rage quit and leave dungeons. I also have a different learning style then most players here. There's another part of the game I'm not allowed to play anymore.

This is why I hate dps ranking addons and the extremely high expectations ( I wont ever meet those no matter how much I improve). This type of elitism is partly why I left wow.

So much for "play what you enjoy" seems like I'm wrong about that. It also looks like it's "play whats meta or don't play at all".

wilykcat

It's hard for me to keep track of all this stuff like very specific builds, dps requirements, specific rotations, cp requirements, guild requirements, meta requirements, stats, what others expect of me, the in game chat, meta changes, and other factors all at once. It is a lot.

There are just to many requirements in order to do one dungeon. This is a problem in my opinion.

Why can't I just smash my keyboard and cast every spell/ability at once in this game like how I can do it in guild wars 2 and end up doing ultimately high dps.

wilykcat

The players don't have to explain word for word in the chat inorder for me to learn the mechanics. I learn by experience and by following along with them and what they are doing in the dungeon.

Braffin

wilykcat wrote: »

It's hard for me to keep track of all this stuff like very specific builds, dps requirements, specific rotations, cp requirements, guild requirements, meta requirements, stats, what others expect of me, the in game chat, meta changes, and other factors all at once. It is a lot.

There are just to many requirements in order to do one dungeon. This is a problem in my opinion.

Why can't I just smash my keyboard and cast every spell/ability at once in this game like how I can do it in guild wars 2 and end up doing ultimately high dps.

Why don't you play normal mode then? There you can play as you want and let go of all those pesky requirements. This gamemode is made for that, while vet mode is made for a challenge. There isn't even a difference between story, ambience and encounters between these modes.

Honest question: Why do want to play veteran in the first place, if you despise every associated parts of the game? Do you also play other games at the highest difficulty exclusively, although you're seemingly not enjoying it?

jaws343

wilykcat wrote: »

The players don't have to explain word for word in the chat inorder for me to learn the mechanics. I learn by experience and by following along with them and what they are doing in the dungeon.

The problem is, many players have learned that sometimes communication is far more effective than hoping you realize a specific mechanic trigger. Especially if a player's insistence on not receiving feedback causes repeated group wipes.

So, yeah, by not wanting to listen to feedback and explanations in difficult content, you are the one hindering their experience in that content and they have every right to not want to deal with that.

Soarora

wilykcat wrote: »

Then it's my fault that people rage quit and leave dungeons. I also have a different learning style then most players here. There's another part of the game I'm not allowed to play anymore.

This is why I hate dps ranking addons and the extremely high expectations ( I wont ever meet those no matter how much I improve). This type of elitism is partly why I left wow.

So much for "play what you enjoy" seems like I'm wrong about that. It also looks like it's "play whats meta or don't play at all".

It’s not that you’re not allowed to, it’s that veteran dungeons are midgame content and you need a midgame understanding on DPS building in order to do them as a DPS. I, like you, did veteran dungeons on my weird little trappings of invigoration/livewire hybrid sorc and struggled and got kicked and told my DPS was too low. But it didn’t stop me forever. I switched to healing and became a pretty good healer, always learning and getting better, to later return to DPSing. To be a good DPS is something you HAVE to work for, there’s a lot of skill involved with knowing your build and your rotation and pulling it off. It looks impossible now but trust me, it’s not as long as you’re willing to learn. You’re going to have to make a choice… reach for requirements, network through discords (maybe you can find 3 other players to prog vet dungeons with), and climb your way to endgame or… don’t and stay a casual and stick to normal dungeons. Some requirements are because people want the easy way but others are because it’s literally necessary. It’s the harsh truth: ZOS advertises play anyway you want but that only applies to overland. They have hard DPS checks in lots of content. They balance new content around the meta. They’re the reason why the meta is so narrow. Low DPS is also hard on the tank. I’m a pretty good tank in some regards but the lower the DPS the harder it is for me to sustain my resources and deal with mechanics.
Anyways, it’s just how this game works. No matter if you DPS, tank, or heal, you need to eventually know how to use 2 5pc sets and 2 2pc sets and what sets are good…

jaws343

Soarora wrote: »

wilykcat wrote: »

Then it's my fault that people rage quit and leave dungeons. I also have a different learning style then most players here. There's another part of the game I'm not allowed to play anymore.

This is why I hate dps ranking addons and the extremely high expectations ( I wont ever meet those no matter how much I improve). This type of elitism is partly why I left wow.

So much for "play what you enjoy" seems like I'm wrong about that. It also looks like it's "play whats meta or don't play at all".

It’s not that you’re not allowed to, it’s that veteran dungeons are midgame content and you need a midgame understanding on DPS building in order to do them as a DPS. I, like you, did veteran dungeons on my weird little trappings of invigoration/livewire hybrid sorc and struggled and got kicked and told my DPS was too low. But it didn’t stop me forever. I switched to healing and became a pretty good healer, always learning and getting better, to later return to DPSing. To be a good DPS is something you HAVE to work for, there’s a lot of skill involved with knowing your build and your rotation and pulling it off. It looks impossible now but trust me, it’s not as long as you’re willing to learn. You’re going to have to make a choice… reach for requirements, network through discords (maybe you can find 3 other players to prog vet dungeons with), and climb your way to endgame or… don’t and stay a casual and stick to normal dungeons. Some requirements are because people want the easy way but others are because it’s literally necessary. It’s the harsh truth: ZOS advertises play anyway you want but that only applies to overland. They have hard DPS checks in lots of content. They balance new content around the meta. They’re the reason why the meta is so narrow. Low DPS is also hard on the tank. I’m a pretty good tank in some regards but the lower the DPS the harder it is for me to sustain my resources and deal with mechanics.
Anyways, it’s just how this game works. No matter if you DPS, tank, or heal, you need to eventually know how to use 2 5pc sets and 2 2pc sets and what sets are good…

Just want to point out, and it is relative to OPs comments as well, Play how you want applies to all portions of the game.

The fallacy is assuming that you don't need to prepare for the content you want to play. If you want to fish, you need to have bait, if you want to PVP you need to be level 10, if you want to craft, you have to learn the skill lines and motifs, etc.

The game gives you all of the tools to play any of the content in the game you want to play. That is play how you want. Choose how you spend your time in game.

What it isn't is expecting everything to be viable for everything. You still need to prepare for the content you want to play (as you mentioned). Can't fish with soul gems, can't resurrect players with worms. Just like you can't expect people to not be upset that you aren't prepared for vet dungeon content.

Dagoth_Rac

You are essentially dragging three other people into a training run. Veteran dungeons are for veteran players and there is an assumption that you know what you are doing. And your method of training is basically, "I have no idea what I am doing and don't want any help. Just let me die over and over again while I figure it out on my own."

You are treating veteran dungeons like solo content, and then 3 other people get to be spectators to your trial-and-error solo experience. It is not an enjoyable experience for the other players, and your lack of interest in joining a guild or using voice chat, which are by far the best and most efficient way to get better at group content, is antisocial and alienating to other players.

You have a right to play how you want. You cannot expect to force other players to play the way you want, though. Especially when the way you like to play is to treat other human beings as glorified NPCs.

wilykcat

I still want to do dungeons but it seems like that I'm not allowed to because some players think I'm too much of a burdan. Also there's a lot of misunderstandings going on here.

I still haven't even figured out crafting and I know more about dungeon mechanics.

If I try another role then I think I would run into a similar problem.

pelle412

wilykcat wrote: »

I still want to do dungeons but it seems like that I'm not allowed to because some players think I'm too much of a burdan. Also there's a lot of misunderstandings going on here.

I still haven't even figured out crafting and I know more about dungeon mechanics.

It has nothing to do with being allowed. If you are doing a "team activity" you can choose to be part of the team (and carry your own weight) or expect the team to carry you along. The latter is less respectable to your team (unless they agree upfront to that).

Soarora

wilykcat wrote: »

I still want to do dungeons but it seems like that I'm not allowed to because some players think I'm too much of a burdan. Also there's a lot of misunderstandings going on here.

I still haven't even figured out crafting and I know more about dungeon mechanics.

If I try another role then I think I would run into a similar problem.

You should definitely work on crafting because it can and will take months if not longer to become a master crafter. Research traits you’ll need on a character you use the most or will designate as a crafter. It’ll be important for reconstruction at a transmute station. I also forgot to mention you could use deadly strike (buyable from guild traders) if your spammable is channeled (like bloodthirst dw spammable or jabs templar spammable).

You probably would have a similar problem on other roles but the parameters are different. DPS is do 40-60% of the group DPS in dungeons, 10-20% in trials. Healer is don’t let people die to not being healed, send orb (undaunted skill) or shards (templar skill) at least to the tank, and wear spell power cure (from white gold tower). Tank is know mechanics, don’t die, keep taunt. That’s just to stop people from complaining, supports do have to keep up certain buffs and debuffs to be good. But I still found healing to be more straightforward than DPSing. I’ve been playing since 2019 and do all roles in endgame content and I still find DPS to be the hardest to understand because there’s just so much math. Support sets are more plug-and-play.

wilykcat

How do I get the deadly strike thing when I'm not in a guild?

Soarora

wilykcat wrote: »

How do I get the deadly strike thing when I'm not in a guild?

Guild traders contain items sold by people in guilds. Anyone can buy from them. Tamriel trade center is a website you can use to locate items because there’s a LOT of traders.

Braffin

wilykcat wrote: »

How do I get the deadly strike thing when I'm not in a guild?

You don't have to be in guilds to use a guildtrader. Just talk to the npc, everyone can use them.

wilykcat

I'm not in a guild so I might as well try it out.

I also want a more improved pure damage build on my character ( has stamina attributes) and what's the specific gear I need to do that. I've previously done this in guild wars 2, world of warcraft, and league of legends, but I haven't figured out how to do it in eso yet..

merpins

Front/back bar. That's just swapping ability bars, you learn it at level 15. If you didn't rebind your keys, its the ~ key.

My recommendation if you want an okay DPS is to grab Pillars of Nirn. It's a set that drops in the Falkreath Hold dungeon. If you were to just get that set, you'd be well on your way to making a decent DPS build, regardless of class.

I noticed you said you're playing a stamina templar, and you like to use dual wield. You can totally make a viable build with Dual Wield, in fact, most DPS builds are dual wield, though that's usually because you just get higher damage numbers by slotting two daggers with specific traits (nirnhoned for %damage, and either charged or precise). The crit rate from daggers helps pump up your damage, and you get two traits whereas other weapon setups only get 1.
As a templar, you can pick up the "Deadly Strikes" set from guild traders. This set is a PVP set, but is best for Templar and Arcanist, since templar's Puncturing Strikes and Arcanist's beam attack both benefit from the set. If you're using Puncturing Strikes (or one of its morphs) as your main attack, then this set will definitely help you.

colossalvoids

From reading the post and questions I'd guess it would be really beneficial at least to glance at other people's builds, at least to get the hang of how people approach building, what abilities are actually used and how exactly, how many full sets, mythical etc. are used, also consumables like foods and potions making a huge difference in performance and comfort.

I wasn't in the same situation as was aware of what sets are from previous games so had 2 always collected later going with arena back bar and monster set when it was time to improve past overland and normal difficulty dungeons. I'd recommend getting gear from normal difficulty trials and dungeons, where your personal performance won't be noticed much or won't have that drastic effect as in veteran content. It's absolutely fine willing to go vet right away but it's best advised to do when you're feeling more useful and ready yourself rather than making someone's casual run into hours training session.

Guilds are hit and miss so aim at friendly casual ones and progression oriented, or find some folks that want to progress on same pace as you learning along the way, it might sound hard but ultimately if you want to find it and putting enough effort you most likely would.

It takes time, most of us didn't magically ported into endgame after couple months of play. My beginning started with random groups and slowly transferred into guilds. Just make sure you're enjoying the journey and quit environments you're not comfortable in, if those are discouraging you from playing.