Why are the 'Kill 40 Players' and now 'Kill 20 xxxxxxxx' quests so broken when you're in a group?

ioResult

Reposting here since I'm hoping you comment or fix it for next patch...

For a couple of patches now, ZOS you've broken the Kill 40 Players quest. If you're in a group with one or more other players, you can do a bunch of damage to an enemy player and even get the killing blow on them, but when they die and release you don't get credit for the kill in your Kill 40 Players quest. Only one person in the group is able to get credit for each kill. Get the killing blow? Doesn't count. Burn them down from 100% to 5% health but then another group member gets the killing blow on them? Doesn't count. The ONLY way the kills are guaranteed to count for your quest is to leave your group and play truly solo.

Now with the Necrom patch, the exact same thing is happening for the 'Kill 20 xxxxxxxx' quests. If one member of your group has Kill 20 Players and you have Kill 20 Nightblades and you both hit the enemy Nightblade repeatedly, and the group member with the Kill 20 Nightblades gets the killing blow on the enemy nightblade, that kill frequently does NOT count towards their KIll 20 Nightblades quest but DOES count for the other group members Kill 20 Players quest.

WHY?

ZOS you broke Kill 40 a couple patches ago and now you've broken all the Kill 20 quests. All your changes have done is DISCOURAGE group play in Cyrodiil if you want to do those quests.

Can you please fix this?

Or at least explain why one can be in a group and do a bunch of damage to an enemy and even get the killing blow on them but it doesn't count towards the quest? What are the parameters now for it to count when you're in a group?

tomofhyrule

Considering you posted this in the PTS forums, I assume you've seen the patch note from 9.1.0 where they specifically fixed these quests:

Quests

• You will now only see your “Kill Enemy Player” quest counter increment when you have contributed to a kill or dealt the killing blow.
• The Conquest Board “Kill Players” quest is now group shared. To counterbalance the rapid progress of this quest during certain PvP engagements, the number of kills required has been increased from 40 to 150.

reazea

ioResult wrote: »

Reposting here since I'm hoping you comment or fix it for next patch...

For a couple of patches now, ZOS you've broken the Kill 40 Players quest. If you're in a group with one or more other players, you can do a bunch of damage to an enemy player and even get the killing blow on them, but when they die and release you don't get credit for the kill in your Kill 40 Players quest. Only one person in the group is able to get credit for each kill. Get the killing blow? Doesn't count. Burn them down from 100% to 5% health but then another group member gets the killing blow on them? Doesn't count. The ONLY way the kills are guaranteed to count for your quest is to leave your group and play truly solo.

Now with the Necrom patch, the exact same thing is happening for the 'Kill 20 xxxxxxxx' quests. If one member of your group has Kill 20 Players and you have Kill 20 Nightblades and you both hit the enemy Nightblade repeatedly, and the group member with the Kill 20 Nightblades gets the killing blow on the enemy nightblade, that kill frequently does NOT count towards their KIll 20 Nightblades quest but DOES count for the other group members Kill 20 Players quest.

WHY?

ZOS you broke Kill 40 a couple patches ago and now you've broken all the Kill 20 quests. All your changes have done is DISCOURAGE group play in Cyrodiil if you want to do those quests.

Can you please fix this?

Or at least explain why one can be in a group and do a bunch of damage to an enemy and even get the killing blow on them but it doesn't count towards the quest? What are the parameters now for it to count when you're in a group?

And the kill 40 players is becoming kill 150 next patch. I have very low confidence that they will fix these bugs before making the change to the kill number for the quest. Hope they prove me wrong.

Panderbander

Yeah I've had 200+ kill solo nights that incremented my Kill 40 quest about 10 kills. This new quest is going to be a cluster.

Jaraal

Panderbander wrote: »

Yeah I've had 200+ kill solo nights that incremented my Kill 40 quest about 10 kills. This new quest is going to be a cluster.

Not for me, it's going to be an autodecline, just like Cap 3 towns.

ioResult

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Considering you posted this in the PTS forums, I assume you've seen the patch note from 9.1.0 where they specifically fixed these quests:

Quests

• You will now only see your “Kill Enemy Player” quest counter increment when you have contributed to a kill or dealt the killing blow.
• The Conquest Board “Kill Players” quest is now group shared. To counterbalance the rapid progress of this quest during certain PvP engagements, the number of kills required has been increased from 40 to 150.

Yes I saw that. What I'm saying is they made changes recently on live for these quests, first with 40 and now 20 and they never mentioned they were cutting in changes and the quests are broken on live. That announcement doesn't say that they fixed the bugs in doing those quests in group like I mentioned. As far as I can see they are only mentioning the changes they have already snuck in for Necrom without telling anyone.

So I would like someone from ZOS either here or in patch notes to say they've fixed the issues we see now in Necrom on live.

If 4 people in a group get a hit in on a target, then all 4 should get credit in their Kill 150 quest as well as their Kill 20 xxxxxxx quest if the enemy player is the class for which they have the quest.

What I'm telling you now is that is not happening with the most recent versions of the code for those quests on live. Three or four people in group will hit a target and only one person in group will get credit for their KIll 40 quest and that person is frequently not even the person in group who got the killing blow on the target.

Did they fix this on PTS? We don't know. We can't know because they never do interesting events on PTS to entice people to come over there for a few days or a week to test their changes.

As I've said in other posts, if I ran ZOS, I'd do an event like the Dragon Rise event where everyone gets cool stuff for doing a bunch of things on the PTS that help test before going live. Those items you get transfer back to the live server but you can only get them by doing the PTS event.

This way we could test things like these quest changes to tell them if they work or not.

Shoot, remember when siege didn't even work right when the new patch came out? That's how much it wasn't tested on PTS before going live.

ProudMary

And just think, they're changing the kill 40 to kill 150 before confirming their "fix" works on public server with the next patch. dun dun dun dunnnn

jaws343

ioResult wrote: »

tomofhyrule wrote: »

Considering you posted this in the PTS forums, I assume you've seen the patch note from 9.1.0 where they specifically fixed these quests:

Quests

• You will now only see your “Kill Enemy Player” quest counter increment when you have contributed to a kill or dealt the killing blow.
• The Conquest Board “Kill Players” quest is now group shared. To counterbalance the rapid progress of this quest during certain PvP engagements, the number of kills required has been increased from 40 to 150.

Yes I saw that. What I'm saying is they made changes recently on live for these quests, first with 40 and now 20 and they never mentioned they were cutting in changes and the quests are broken on live. That announcement doesn't say that they fixed the bugs in doing those quests in group like I mentioned. As far as I can see they are only mentioning the changes they have already snuck in for Necrom without telling anyone.

So I would like someone from ZOS either here or in patch notes to say they've fixed the issues we see now in Necrom on live.

If 4 people in a group get a hit in on a target, then all 4 should get credit in their Kill 150 quest as well as their Kill 20 xxxxxxx quest if the enemy player is the class for which they have the quest.

What I'm telling you now is that is not happening with the most recent versions of the code for those quests on live. Three or four people in group will hit a target and only one person in group will get credit for their KIll 40 quest and that person is frequently not even the person in group who got the killing blow on the target.

Did they fix this on PTS? We don't know. We can't know because they never do interesting events on PTS to entice people to come over there for a few days or a week to test their changes.

As I've said in other posts, if I ran ZOS, I'd do an event like the Dragon Rise event where everyone gets cool stuff for doing a bunch of things on the PTS that help test before going live. Those items you get transfer back to the live server but you can only get them by doing the PTS event.

This way we could test things like these quest changes to tell them if they work or not.

Shoot, remember when siege didn't even work right when the new patch came out? That's how much it wasn't tested on PTS before going live.

The Kill 40 has ALWAYS worked like that in groups. There have been no changes on live to its functionality.

Also, them mentioning changes in the patch notes is literally the trigger for players to go test those changes mentioned for feedback. If you really want this tested, maybe download the PTS and do so yourself. If it is such a concern, it shouldn't require enticement to get you to verify.

ioResult

jaws343 wrote: »

The Kill 40 has ALWAYS worked like that in groups. There have been no changes on live to its functionality.

Also, them mentioning changes in the patch notes is literally the trigger for players to go test those changes mentioned for feedback. If you really want this tested, maybe download the PTS and do so yourself. If it is such a concern, it shouldn't require enticement to get you to verify.

Ummm...no it hasn't.

We are in a PvP guild that does that quest literally everyday and has for years. And in the last two patches they've broken it and the Kill 20 quests. You can get the KB on a Sorc and have the Kill 20 Sorcs quest and the KB WON'T COUNT for the quest. It doesn't increment the count of Sorcs you've killed. Period. Don't tell us we're not seeing what we're seeing because we do the quests literally every night. Never before Necrom have I killed an enemy player of a certain class and it hasn't counted for the quest.

And as far as being on PTS...we (in my PvP guild) all have PTS downloaded...do you PvP at all on PTS? If you did, you'd know there is hardly ever anyone in Cyrodiil on PTS. It's impossible to test these quests on PTS because there are only 1 bar of each faction at all times.

tomofhyrule

ioResult wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The Kill 40 has ALWAYS worked like that in groups. There have been no changes on live to its functionality.

Also, them mentioning changes in the patch notes is literally the trigger for players to go test those changes mentioned for feedback. If you really want this tested, maybe download the PTS and do so yourself. If it is such a concern, it shouldn't require enticement to get you to verify.

Ummm...no it hasn't.

We are in a PvP guild that does that quest literally everyday and has for years. And in the last two patches they've broken it and the Kill 20 quests. You can get the KB on a Sorc and have the Kill 20 Sorcs quest and the KB WON'T COUNT for the quest. It doesn't increment the count of Sorcs you've killed. Period. Don't tell us we're not seeing what we're seeing because we do the quests literally every night. Never before Necrom have I killed an enemy player of a certain class and it hasn't counted for the quest.

And as far as being on PTS...we (in my PvP guild) all have PTS downloaded...do you PvP at all on PTS? If you did, you'd know there is hardly ever anyone in Cyrodiil on PTS. It's impossible to test these quests on PTS because there are only 1 bar of each faction at all times.

Yes, natural PvP is impossible on PTS. Nobody's gonna go into Cyrodiil.

But if there's testing to be done on PTS, particularly if you're in a group where many people have PTS installed, it's easy. I did some myself when I was testing to see if the "Kill 20 Arcanists" quest was the cause of the Quest State Bug. I went in, killed my Arcanists, and turned in the quest to find my quest states bugged, and then I reported it. How? I got a friend to log onto PTS to an Arcanist in another alliance, we met in Cyrodiil, and then I killed him on repeat to get the kills I needed.

Of course, it won't feel like PvP because you'll need to plan it. You get a small group of your alliance, and then a few of your friends log on to (or make template toons of) a different alliance. Then you all get on a voice chat, meet up somewhere in Cyrodiil, and then you kill the other alliance person while your grouped friend sees if the kill counts for them. Go for some different tests: your friend stands next to you but you do all the work; your friend gets the first hit and then lets you finish it off; your friend tags the enemy once with something like EleDrain and you finish it. See if any or all of those end up counting. The other alliance person can have a grouped friend as well to chain res them so they don't have to run back each time.

Again, you're testing, not PvPing. It's totally possible to do. Fun? Maybe not. But at least it will allow you to report whether it works, so the devs can then fix it.

BetweenMidgets

Kill 40 quests has been borked since at least 2020.

The fact that they're changing these is pretty laughable.

MasterSpatula

I really surprised the "kill 150" thing hasn't had a bigger outcry, considering just how monumentally bad an idea it is.

acastanza_ESO

The Kill 20 [X]/Kill Any 20 quests broke with the Necrom release, they started behaving like Kill 40 only even buggier. I assume that they accidentally pushed some in-progress code that was intended for U39. Hopefully the patch gives us working quests again, although I'm definitely not thrilled about the Kill 150 change, it will now only be possible for guild groups to do it, and even then only on weekends when the servers are busy or in Grey Host. Before Kill 40 was the best quest for solo players to do, now it's completely useless.

Jaraal

MasterSpatula wrote: »

I really surprised the "kill 150" thing hasn't had a bigger outcry, considering just how monumentally bad an idea it is.

Honestly, I think players are just tired of PTS feedback falling on deaf ears. ZOS has proven that they like to stick to their agenda regardless of how the majority of players feel about the changes, so I think many just don't bother trying to change their minds any more.

All we can really do is choose to play the changes or not. And as a solo player, Kill 40, Cap 3 keeps, and Cap 9 resources took around the same amount of time and effort for me to do, for years. And if they decide to make one Conquest mission take three times as long for me to finish, then I will choose to skip that mission, just like I choose to skip Cap 3 towns.

It's pretty disheartening that the promised QOL focus for the year has been mostly QOL nerfs and stuff that nobody asked for. It definitely makes one wonder if they are playing the same version of the game that we are.