Give ice staves DPS passives

RaptorRodeoGod

Ice staves are under the DESTRUCTION staff skill line, they should have passives to boost damage in a unique and meaningful way compared to shock and flame staves.

RaptorRodeoGod

And considering they're reworking Lightning and Fire staff passives this update, it's the perfect time to look at Frost staves as well.

INM

It has one, it's called minor brittle.

RaptorRodeoGod

INM wrote: »

It has one, it's called minor brittle.

That's not enough to keep up with the flame and shock though, is it? 🤔

Plus once one person provides minor brittle, there's no reason for anyone else in the group to run a frost staff, because it would be a damage loss at that point

Necrotech_Master

it would be nice if the ice staff was less focused on tanking, and there was a separate line for magicka themed tanking

minor brittle also doesnt do anything if your already at the crit dmg cap either lol

TankHealz2015

Much potential to expand the staves skill line.

Add another elemental flavor staff.
Disconnect tanking from ice
Add one more staff skill

2 skills with DOT option
2 skills with AOE option
2 skills with defensive/protective option

So much potential for cool new ways to improve...

Tyrant_Tim

Alteration Staves are more in line with what you would expect from a tank, never quite understood the approach of turning a Destruction Staff into a tool that prevents destruction.

emilyhyoyeon

Yep. Ice destruction spells were never tank-related in any of the previous TES games either. I feel bad for anyone playing ESO who has an ice mage TES OC.

Ice destruction staves only turned into this in ESO because back in the day people wanted a magicka tanking option. In a world like TES with massive amounts of tank/utility spells in the schools other than destruction (alteration, illusion, even mysticism), it's sad that corners were cut.

phaneub17_ESO

How about taking the previous inferno staff idea, with a frost staff equipped every applied status effect increases your damage done to the target by 2% for 10 seconds.

RaptorRodeoGod

phaneub17_ESO wrote: »

How about taking the previous inferno staff idea, with a frost staff equipped every applied status effect increases your damage done to the target by 2% for 10 seconds.

I think having the frost staff interact with status effects could be a good start. I'd think a shorter duration for your buff would be better though, to promote users trying to trigger status effects more often. There's a status effect for each damage type, so at the top end, that would end up being 16% additional damage done, which would be pretty strong

MindOfTheSwarm

Inferno Staff:
Increases damage with single target DoTs by 12%.
Increases duration of single target DoTs by 4 seconds.
Increases effectiveness of weapon enchants by 12%.

Lightning Staff:
Increases damage with channelled abilities by 12%.
Increases damage with direct AoE skills by 12%.
These effects do not stack.

Ice Staff:
Increases damage with AoE DoTs by 12%. Increases duration of AoE DoTs by 4 seconds.
Increases damage with status effects by 12%.

No weapon boosts direct single target to avoid it becoming the defacto best choice.

ZhuJiuyin

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Inferno Staff:
Increases damage with single target DoTs by 12%.
Increases duration of single target DoTs by 4 seconds.
Increases effectiveness of weapon enchants by 12%.

Lightning Staff:
Increases damage with channelled abilities by 12%.
Increases damage with direct AoE skills by 12%.
These effects do not stack.

Ice Staff:
Increases damage with AoE DoTs by 12%. Increases duration of AoE DoTs by 4 seconds.
Increases damage with status effects by 12%.

No weapon boosts direct single target to avoid it becoming the defacto best choice.

In this way, Sorcerer will die directly.
single target DoTs? Sorcerer did not have
direct AoE skills? Sorcerer did not have
channelled abilities? Likewise, Sorcerer did not have
AoE DoTs? Sorcerer exists, but it is not practical, accounting for only 10-15% of the overall proportion, or even lower.

ESO_Nightingale

i would like to see the additional status effect boost re-applied to the entire destruction staff or as a lesser bonus on the frost staff. would be nice if they threw another bone at snb as well to help the tanking weapons stand out a bit. i reckon defensive posture or one of it's morphs should drop an aoe dot at your feet to give that line an aoe dot.

techprince

In one of the streams, they said it would be a lot of work to create a new weapon line and instead they kept tinkering with the existing ice staves.

Deter1UK

techprince wrote: »

In one of the streams, they said it would be a lot of work to create a new weapon line and instead they kept tinkering with the existing ice staves.

Yes indeed; no new weapons because of huge amount of work updaing all the item sets was the reason I believe.

emilyhyoyeon

If they had made a new weapon back in 2016 or whenever it was when they reworked ice destruction for magicka tanking, there would've been a lot fewer sets to deal with

Jazraena

I mean, new staff types or 1hand/freehand requires zero new models or basic attack animations.

Literally just new skills.

katorga

Short answer is that Ice staves should never have been changed into "tanking" weapons.

But, now that they are they cannot also be given DPS functions bringing them to the same level as DPS weapons.

ItsNotLiving

Why don’t they just make an alteration staff? Whole new skill line same model for the staves magicka tanking focus that’s totally lore friendly and then make ice staff an actual dps weapon.

ESO_Nightingale

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Why don’t they just make an alteration staff? Whole new skill line same model for the staves magicka tanking focus that’s totally lore friendly and then make ice staff an actual dps weapon.

Requires creating new skills, item sets and balancing, it's probably one of the easier new lines to make though, 1h and rune would be a little bit harder but both are still easier than a weapon which requires a metric boatload of new skins like a spear.

Faulgor

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Why don’t they just make an alteration staff? Whole new skill line same model for the staves magicka tanking focus that’s totally lore friendly and then make ice staff an actual dps weapon.

Requires creating new skills, item sets and balancing, it's probably one of the easier new lines to make though, 1h and rune would be a little bit harder but both are still easier than a weapon which requires a metric boatload of new skins like a spear.

Even then, considering how much crown store stuff they pump out, I think they can ask an intern to glue daggers to staves to make some spears.

Having to add a new weapon type to existing item sets and drop tables doesn't seem like a reasonable excuse. Most of that could probably be automated.
Certainly doesn't seem like more work than new classes, which they keep adding for some reason.

Vaqual

1. I think the alteration staff idea is great.

2. Realistically, I think the majority of the community would not even be mad if a new weapon like a spear released with only a few skins. They can make more at whatever pace they feel comfortable with. The need to have a spear for every style is just ocd.

MashmalloMan

At this point I find spellcrafting more likely than new weapons, despite wanting both. It just fits much better within the current state of the game's direction.

Hybridization kind of killed the drive/necessity to bring the most obvious and easy to design weapon line to the game.. 1h + magic.

DW is effectively the same thing, you miss out on weapon skills front bar, but I find I rarely slot 1, especoally when the class has an execute. There is so many useful class and universal skills nowadays.

Still hope they do it one day, maybe a Q4 DLC. No work motif wise, it's just a 1 hander + 1 of 8 possible elemental VFX in the other hand. Add to the loot tables and make 6 interesting skills, wallah, done.

ESO_Nightingale

Faulgor wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Why don’t they just make an alteration staff? Whole new skill line same model for the staves magicka tanking focus that’s totally lore friendly and then make ice staff an actual dps weapon.

Requires creating new skills, item sets and balancing, it's probably one of the easier new lines to make though, 1h and rune would be a little bit harder but both are still easier than a weapon which requires a metric boatload of new skins like a spear.

Even then, considering how much crown store stuff they pump out, I think they can ask an intern to glue daggers to staves to make some spears.

Having to add a new weapon type to existing item sets and drop tables doesn't seem like a reasonable excuse. Most of that could probably be automated.
Certainly doesn't seem like more work than new classes, which they keep adding for some reason.

So you're asking zos to deliberately slap up work? Spears shouldn't take priority over a new magic dps weapon anyway. Or better yet, one that scales it's skills for both mag and stam like 1h rune could.

MashmalloMan

After years of struggles I'm actually quite happy with the state of frost staves, they managed to make them viable DPS options for wardens while still retaining the silly idea that they're for tanking which realistically is going nowhere until an alteration staff comes into play.

Let's say they did a 180 tomorrow. Bye bye ice staff tanking, it's for DPS now. Guess who's getting the first nerf? Warden's extra 10% damage passive and Ice Reach as a spammable.

So idk, I pick the lesser of 2 evils. I have 0 desire to use an ice staff on anything but a Warden anyway.

RaptorRodeoGod

MashmalloMan wrote: »

After years of struggles I'm actually quite happy with the state of frost staves, they managed to make them viable DPS options for wardens while still retaining the silly idea that they're for tanking which realistically is going nowhere until an alteration staff comes into play.

Let's say they did a 180 tomorrow. Bye bye ice staff tanking, it's for DPS now. Guess who's getting the first nerf? Warden's extra 10% damage passive and Ice Reach as a spammable.

So idk, I pick the lesser of 2 evils. I have 0 desire to use an ice staff on anything but a Warden anyway.

Yeah but realistically speaking the ice staff should be viable as a DPS weapon for any class, not just Wardens. As it is, every class but Warden is basically locked out of using it from a high end perspective. It's a shame too, because Necromancers and Arcanists have frost spells that could've synergized well with it.

Faulgor

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Why don’t they just make an alteration staff? Whole new skill line same model for the staves magicka tanking focus that’s totally lore friendly and then make ice staff an actual dps weapon.

Requires creating new skills, item sets and balancing, it's probably one of the easier new lines to make though, 1h and rune would be a little bit harder but both are still easier than a weapon which requires a metric boatload of new skins like a spear.

Even then, considering how much crown store stuff they pump out, I think they can ask an intern to glue daggers to staves to make some spears.

Having to add a new weapon type to existing item sets and drop tables doesn't seem like a reasonable excuse. Most of that could probably be automated.
Certainly doesn't seem like more work than new classes, which they keep adding for some reason.

So you're asking zos to deliberately slap up work? Spears shouldn't take priority over a new magic dps weapon anyway. Or better yet, one that scales it's skills for both mag and stam like 1h rune could.

I'm not familiar with the term "slap up", but all I'm saying is that adding new weapons could be done if they put their mind to it.

I'm not sure magic dps needs a new weapon first, but then, I've been asking for Spellcrafting for 10 years, so I'm not opposed to something like that - preferably, if they were to add Alteration Staves, they should add staves for Mysticism, Illusion, and Conjuration at the same time.

1h + rune has only ever been a meme because one of the old datamined icons was called 1hrune. "Runes" like that haven't been a thing in TES. But what people have asked for since release is to be able to simply equip the spell into your hands, like in Skyrim.
IMO that would be a good place to revitalize the spellcrafting concept, crafted spells as equippable weapons.
Considering all combinations, this could yield a couple new skill lines all by itself (1h + spell, spell + shield, dual wield spells, etc).
And crafted spells wouldn't require revisiting all crafting styles, so that's at least one upside ...

Xelyum

All of this could be easily solved if they added an "alteration" skill line that is defensive staff skills.

MashmalloMan

RaptorRodeoGod wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

After years of struggles I'm actually quite happy with the state of frost staves, they managed to make them viable DPS options for wardens while still retaining the silly idea that they're for tanking which realistically is going nowhere until an alteration staff comes into play.

Let's say they did a 180 tomorrow. Bye bye ice staff tanking, it's for DPS now. Guess who's getting the first nerf? Warden's extra 10% damage passive and Ice Reach as a spammable.

So idk, I pick the lesser of 2 evils. I have 0 desire to use an ice staff on anything but a Warden anyway.

Yeah but realistically speaking the ice staff should be viable as a DPS weapon for any class, not just Wardens. As it is, every class but Warden is basically locked out of using it from a high end perspective. It's a shame too, because Necromancers and Arcanists have frost spells that could've synergized well with it.

Fair point, it just isn't going to be fixed until an alteration staff comes along. Do we really think that could be a 10 year chapter mechanic at this point. Idk.