2-handed Weapons Are Ruined

trippcap

Hey guys, I'm not so sure if the intention was to nerf 2h so that they are unusable in PvE environments, but this change steadily does that. 560 damage to direct damage attacks is incredibly low and therefore destroys its use in any PvE situation. This was a swing and a miss. This needs to be adjusted to be weapon and spell damage towards direct damage attacks or simply revert it to how it was either before the PTS or on week 1. I was excited to see a dps buff on 2h frontbar builds, but this effectively once again is reducing dps on almost every class. The damage for this buff is way way too low. Please revert it or increase the damage insanely. Don't want to see yet another dps nerf.

Necrotech_Master

i havent really used the maelstrom 2h since the dot nerfs in u35, because it was only avg like 500 dmg per sec, or less

the new change in this weeks pts notes looks more promising than the previous one since it buffs all direct dmg instead of only 2h abilities

trippcap

Necrotech_Master wrote: »

i havent really used the maelstrom 2h since the dot nerfs in u35, because it was only avg like 500 dmg per sec, or less

the new change in this weeks pts notes looks more promising than the previous one since it buffs all direct dmg instead of only 2h abilities

It is a 560 damage buff to direct damage attacks. Meaning its 500 dps. Thats it. It is a gigantic nerf, considering the previous version actually buffed light attacks with a 2 handed weapon. Do you realize personally that you will be doing much less damage with a 2 handed weapon now. The previous dot was 2k+ dps which is still very low. The recent changes made it worth using but now it is borderline unusable. How is it promising to keep having sets become unusable over time

Panderbander

From a pvp perspective I really like this change. Imagine a 2h Templar using this getting an extra 1500 damage for each cast of jabs or an extra 2k out of flurry. Is it stronger than lightning staff for Plars? Dunno, but why not both? You can back bar this and double dip the damage.

virtus753

Panderbander wrote: »

From a pvp perspective I really like this change. Imagine a 2h Templar using getting an extra 1500 damage for each cast of jabs or an extra 2k out of flurry. Is it stronger than lightning staff for Plars? Dunno, but why not both? You can back bar this and double dip the damage.

From a PvE perspective Templars are getting virtually nothing out of this set in the last 40% of a boss's health bar, and any Arcanist running beam isn't either.

Vaqual

virtus753 wrote: »

From a PvE perspective Templars are getting virtually nothing out of this set in the last 40% of a boss's health bar, and any Arcanist running beam isn't either.

I doesn't have to work on every build, I don't think that is to be expected. This is still infinitely better than just having it work with 4 abilities and 2h autohits.

virtus753

Vaqual wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

From a PvE perspective Templars are getting virtually nothing out of this set in the last 40% of a boss's health bar, and any Arcanist running beam isn't either.

I doesn't have to work on every build, I don't think that is to be expected. This is still infinitely better than just having it work with 4 abilities and 2h autohits.

When a set that is currently not just viable but competitive on all classes in PvE becomes dead on arrival for two of them, that is a huge problem imo. Dropping beam on Templar or Arcanist is crippling. This change doesn't hurt specific builds in PvE - it hurts whole classes, the ones that rely on DoT spammables.

Don't mistake me for wanting this set to go back to 2-handed abilities/lights/heavies. I wasn't a fan of that either. I won't weigh the value of ruining the set vs. ruining the set for two classes because we shouldn't have to be faced with that choice, especially when the devs have said they want to maintain the relative power of the set and have obviously missed the mark badly yet again.

Urzigurumash

Interesting subject line when the post is about one particular weapon, not all of them. I don't PvE, is this Weapon ubiquitous in all PvE 2h builds?

The PTS note is also interesting - is it a 9% Damage Done bonus or a 560 WD bonus to the co-efficient? How does 560 WD = 9% Damage Done? This relates to my general confusion about Damage Done - I swear once upon a time it was never reflected in Tooltips, which made sense to me, but it seems it has been for the last few years. I don't know of any explanation outside of this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/422268/a-comprehensive-guide-on-damage-dealing-in-elder-scrolls-online/p1

However it's calculated, sounds like a good change for PvP. 9% Damage Done on a Burst Ult is huge, and this change helps to compensate for the loss of the old Follow Up. If it's 560 Weapon Damage, also very strong for a 2 piece with high potential uptime. On the other hand Gapclosers are a bit weak in PvP these days since character speed is at all time highs. Bit of a wasted GCD / slot for the most part.

Vaqual

virtus753 wrote: »

Don't mistake me for wanting this set to go back to 2-handed abilities/lights/heavies. I wasn't a fan of that either. I won't weigh the value of ruining the set vs. ruining the set for two classes because we shouldn't have to be faced with that choice, especially when the devs have said they want to maintain the relative power of the set and have obviously missed the mark badly yet again.

Hehe, you are right. Look at what this game made me become.

Panderbander

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Interesting subject line when the post is about one particular weapon, not all of them. I don't PvE, is this Weapon ubiquitous in all PvE 2h builds?

The PTS note is also interesting - is it a 9% Damage Done bonus or a 560 WD bonus to the co-efficient? How does 560 WD = 9% Damage Done? This relates to my general confusion about Damage Done - I swear once upon a time it was never reflected in Tooltips, which made sense to me, but it seems it has been for the last few years. I don't know of any explanation outside of this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/422268/a-comprehensive-guide-on-damage-dealing-in-elder-scrolls-online/p1

However it's calculated, sounds like a good change for PvP. 9% Damage Done on a Burst Ult is huge, and this change helps to compensate for the loss of the old Follow Up. If it's 560 Weapon Damage, also very strong for a 2 piece with high potential uptime. On the other hand Gapclosers are a bit weak in PvP these days since character speed is at all time highs. Bit of a wasted GCD / slot for the most part.

The way that it reads is that it adds flat damage (based on a percentage of your weapon/spell damage) to your direct damage attacks, similar to Draugrkin.

Urzigurumash

Panderbander wrote: »

Urzigurumash wrote: »

Interesting subject line when the post is about one particular weapon, not all of them. I don't PvE, is this Weapon ubiquitous in all PvE 2h builds?

The PTS note is also interesting - is it a 9% Damage Done bonus or a 560 WD bonus to the co-efficient? How does 560 WD = 9% Damage Done? This relates to my general confusion about Damage Done - I swear once upon a time it was never reflected in Tooltips, which made sense to me, but it seems it has been for the last few years. I don't know of any explanation outside of this thread: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/422268/a-comprehensive-guide-on-damage-dealing-in-elder-scrolls-online/p1

However it's calculated, sounds like a good change for PvP. 9% Damage Done on a Burst Ult is huge, and this change helps to compensate for the loss of the old Follow Up. If it's 560 Weapon Damage, also very strong for a 2 piece with high potential uptime. On the other hand Gapclosers are a bit weak in PvP these days since character speed is at all time highs. Bit of a wasted GCD / slot for the most part.

The way that it reads is that it adds flat damage (based on a percentage of your weapon/spell damage) to your direct damage attacks, similar to Draugrkin.

Ah right, that makes much more sense, I totally misread it. Now I realize that's how the first version worked too, i.e. "Bonus Damage". Quite a bit weaker than what I thought.

Thank goodness then, I don't need to worry about having to slot Crit Charge.

trippcap

Panderbander wrote: »

From a pvp perspective I really like this change. Imagine a 2h Templar using this getting an extra 1500 damage for each cast of jabs or an extra 2k out of flurry. Is it stronger than lightning staff for Plars? Dunno, but why not both? You can back bar this and double dip the damage.

thats a solid 1/2 of the community. PvE it completely kills the weapon and makes it unviable. Maybe there's a happy medium? How about we look for that instead of accept changes that kill over half of the communitys use of something.

trippcap

Vaqual wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

From a PvE perspective Templars are getting virtually nothing out of this set in the last 40% of a boss's health bar, and any Arcanist running beam isn't either.

I doesn't have to work on every build, I don't think that is to be expected. This is still infinitely better than just having it work with 4 abilities and 2h autohits.

So instead of working for both PvE and PvP for every class, not it only works in PvP on a few classes. Awesome change! Seems like you're advocating for eliminating gear and skills from usage for the majority of players.

Panderbander

trippcap wrote: »

Panderbander wrote: »

From a pvp perspective I really like this change. Imagine a 2h Templar using this getting an extra 1500 damage for each cast of jabs or an extra 2k out of flurry. Is it stronger than lightning staff for Plars? Dunno, but why not both? You can back bar this and double dip the damage.

thats a solid 1/2 of the community. PvE it completely kills the weapon and makes it unviable. Maybe there's a happy medium? How about we look for that instead of accept changes that kill over half of the communitys use of something.

I didn't mean to say that it was good or bad for PvE, I was only speaking from my area of expertise. My last experience in PvE relied on the maelstrom bow on the back bar instead of the 2h and that was literally years ago lol

Vaqual

trippcap wrote: »

So instead of working for both PvE and PvP for every class, not it only works in PvP on a few classes. Awesome change! Seems like you're advocating for eliminating gear and skills from usage for the majority of players.

I don't know what you want to hear from me by adressing me in this kind of accusing manner, but I think the change for this set from week 1 to week 3 was good, as it applies to more different instances of damage (thus not forcing you to use a small selection of skills) and it has received a reasonable cap, preventing extreme returns on WD stacking. I also like the live version of the set, as have I stated that in at least 2 other threads, but this is starting to grow on me as well.

And I am not "advocating for eliminating gear and skills from usage for the majority of players". That is just unobjective and polemic.