can we create character with female head and male body?

laniakea_0

let's not get into this much further, please. that other thread has finally been locked. there's really no need to dredge it up again.

Syldras

laniakea_0 wrote: »

let's not get into this much further, please. that other thread has finally been locked. there's really no need to dredge it up again.

I didn't say a thing about trans people. I wrote that in nature, a big variety exists when it comes to individuals' phenotypes. As an example: Much of what is considered as "natural" in women today is actually shaped by norms, by beauty standards, and women take great efforts to look like that, by makeup, some by surgery. How is this nature then?

Like it or not, nature is more than Barbie and Ken.

Soarora

Syldras wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

let's not get into this much further, please. that other thread has finally been locked. there's really no need to dredge it up again.

I didn't say a thing about trans people. I wrote that in nature, a big variety exists when it comes to individuals' phenotypes. As an example: Much of what is considered as "natural" in women today is actually shaped by norms, by beauty standards, and women take great efforts to look like that, by makeup, some by surgery. How is this nature then?

Like it or not, nature is more than Barbie and Ken.

Men and women do look different though. Yes, more shapes exist than <insert Very Specific Shape here> but that’s also the case in ESO. We have a triangle you can slide around and a bunch of sliders. I do not see the point in being able to swap heads. I think what’d be more worth dev time is un-gender locking gender locked cosmetics and adding dirt skins/markings.

laniakea_0

indeed. loots of intricate, unique costumes for female characters but hardly any for male characters. especially the case with sexy costumes. even those that aren't sex locked are clearly designed for the female physique and just stretched to fit the male body.

thesarahandcompany

disintegr8 wrote: »

I'm not really sure what defines a male or female head anymore, especially in today's world.

Male and Female in this game tend to more closely be "masculine" or "feminine." That's what OP is suggesting.

Some people may want a feminine body (with a bust) but also facial hair (masculine feature).

For anyone who says that a female body with a beard is weird or unrealistic, you're playing a game with dragons and magic spells. Get over yourself.

Also, a side note, I'm disgusted how dog whistle transphobia is being allowed on forums on this post.

TaSheen

laniakea_0 wrote: »

let's not get into this much further, please. that other thread has finally been locked. there's really no need to dredge it up again.

About time for sure.

spartaxoxo

VaranisArano wrote: »

On a practical level, this would dramatically change the meshes for the character models, so you'd probably wind up with a lot of stretching or clipping unless ZOS went back and did a lot of work on both the character models and probably on all the armor/costume/tattoo models as well.

I think it's unlikely that ZOS will commit the time and effort to do so.

It'd probably be easier for ZOS to change the facial feature sliders to allow for more male <-> female options while keeping the bone structure/skeletal meshes the same, i.e. push the square-jawed heroic looks farther or the Soft slider farther. I realize that's not quite what you're asking for, but it might be more likely to happen since there's less facial cosmetics.

This. They could also open up some of the cosmetics.

Shagreth

No, please, just no.

ArchMikem

zaria wrote: »

whitecrow wrote: »

..........Why?

An reasonable question, I say cuter Khajiit as in Ohmes raht would be more lucrative.
And this make me think of the memes about modern female heroes who basically is this and not lucrative.

Now it makes little sense that Argonians has breasts,

Blame the Hist for wanting them to appear familiar to the other Races. Argonian Breasts basically serve no purpose. That thought is before the fan theories that they lactate a form of recycled Hist Sap especially for Hatchlings born away from the Marsh.

Danikat

Syldras wrote: »

laniakea_0 wrote: »

@disintegr8 just look at a lineup of pictures of people sans make up/cosmetic surgery. should make it fairly obvious.

Funny thing, without make up and cosmetic surgery, there would probably be more masculine looking women around...

That said, I'm not saying there are no physical differences between the sexes, but masculine looking (especially older) ladies do exist, as well as young women who could be mistaken for young men, and people who look so androgynous you can't tell their sex for sure do also exist. It's a minority, but it's a part of the variety of nature. And I'm not even talking about trans people here.

I think if the suggested option would exist in ESO, it would also only be a smaller percentage of the playerbase using it, not the vast majority. So where's the problem?

In real life it mostly seems to come down to hair length and (to a lesser extent) style. My husband is built like a rugby player but when his hair is longer than shoulder length he gets mistaken for a woman at least once a month. Same for women with short hair - people either assume they are men or that they're trying to look like men.

People will go on and on about jaw lines and bone structure and all these subtle differences (which are not consistent between individuals) but all it actually takes is a hair cut.

And yeah, we already have players in ESO making their characters look androgynous or making a male character look more feminine or vice versa. I doubt adding a bit more range to the sliders (which is basically all that's being requested here) is going to make a huge difference to most players.

Dragonlord573

I mean, I don't see what the issue with more varieties of body types is. I've got an Argonian that's androgynous and being able to have a more male style masculine body would be awesome.

Syldras

Soarora wrote: »

Men and women do look different though.

Generally speaking, yes. But have you never seen a person so androgynous it's really not possible to tell from their face? I have, more than once. It's not very common, but it is a part of nature that exists.

Soarora wrote: »

I do not see the point in being able to swap heads. I think what’d be more worth dev time is un-gender locking gender locked cosmetics and adding dirt skins/markings.

I agree that this would be more important, and instead of swapping heads, maybe just expanding slider options.

thesarahandcompany wrote: »

Some people may want a feminine body (with a bust) but also facial hair (masculine feature).
For anyone who says that a female body with a beard is weird or unrealistic, you're playing a game with dragons and magic spells. Get over yourself.

Newer adornments aren't genderlocked, so there are already a few beards that can be used on female characters, I think? Honestly, most beards in this game look like glued-on anyway.

Btw, some women do grow a beard irl (and no, before anyone complains,I'm not saying this is the norm, but that it's something that sometimes happens, naturally):
https://kids.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/2022/3/an-interview-with-harnaam-kaur-youngest-female-with-a-full-beard-694493

Danikat wrote: »

In real life it mostly seems to come down to hair length and (to a lesser extent) style. My husband is built like a rugby player but when his hair is longer than shoulder length he gets mistaken for a woman at least once a month.

As a man with very long hair (currently about tailbone length), I can confirm. Although slowly people seem to learn that long-haired males exist, so if people see me from behind, I now sometimes hear "that person" instead of "that lady"

virtus753

spartaxoxo wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

On a practical level, this would dramatically change the meshes for the character models, so you'd probably wind up with a lot of stretching or clipping unless ZOS went back and did a lot of work on both the character models and probably on all the armor/costume/tattoo models as well.

I think it's unlikely that ZOS will commit the time and effort to do so.

It'd probably be easier for ZOS to change the facial feature sliders to allow for more male <-> female options while keeping the bone structure/skeletal meshes the same, i.e. push the square-jawed heroic looks farther or the Soft slider farther. I realize that's not quite what you're asking for, but it might be more likely to happen since there's less facial cosmetics.

This. They could also open up some of the cosmetics.

Including dances, please. Male dances are only available on female characters and vice versa through a workaround for no apparent reason other than gender-locking was the norm when this game was made (and should have been outdated even then).

Syldras

virtus753 wrote: »

Male dances are only available on female characters and vice versa through a workaround

How?

tomofhyrule

Syldras wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Male dances are only available on female characters and vice versa through a workaround

How?

iirc put a male-only polymorph (like the Xivkyn) on a quickslot. Then while you're in poly form, start the dance, and then hit the quickslot to take off the poly while you're in the emote.

Cazador

Syldras wrote: »

virtus753 wrote: »

Male dances are only available on female characters and vice versa through a workaround

How?

A few polymorphs default to one or the other regardless of if your character is male or female.

I know the skeleton does but others probably do too.

Soarora

Syldras wrote: »

Soarora wrote: »

Men and women do look different though.

Generally speaking, yes. But have you never seen a person so androgynous it's really not possible to tell from their face? I have, more than once. It's not very common, but it is a part of nature that exists.

Soarora wrote: »

I do not see the point in being able to swap heads. I think what’d be more worth dev time is un-gender locking gender locked cosmetics and adding dirt skins/markings.

I agree that this would be more important, and instead of swapping heads, maybe just expanding slider options.

I definitely have been confused on peoples gender before but it’s usually being unsure if they’re nonbinary or not, since I do not look for peoples sex I look for their gender. Styling can really throw someone off, with especially hair styling and/or makeup. Which is why unlocking gender locked cosmetics should work fine. The only races I can think of with obvious facial dimorphism are argonian and orc but even then with the angular-heroic-soft triangle plus sliders plus styling I think it’s well possible to create androgyny already.

Syldras

Soarora wrote: »

I definitely have been confused on peoples gender before but it’s usually being unsure if they’re nonbinary or not, since I do not look for peoples sex I look for their gender.

Actually, the thing I look for is how to address a person correctly In 99% of cases, a person's gender and/or sex is totally irrelevant to me.

When it's about gender, you actually can never tell for sure only by looks, because you never know how the person identifies (a guy wearing makeup can just be a guy wearing makeup, and even someone who "looks cis" could be a trans person who's not out yet). Unless you ask, of course. But that's still not very common where I live, so if one asks, chances are big the person doesn't approve the question but rather feels insulted.

Then again, I rarely talk about other people and when directly addressing someone, things can be kept neutral most of the time.

Mik195

laniakea_0 wrote: »

indeed. loots of intricate, unique costumes for female characters but hardly any for male characters. especially the case with sexy costumes. even those that aren't sex locked are clearly designed for the female physique and just stretched to fit the male body.

All costumes should be gender free. I don't think it is unreasonable that real money costumes have 4 models (male on female body, female on male body, and the current ones). I often want to put my female characters in the male version because dungeons and cleavage don't work for me.

mattaeus01b16_ESO

OP... Seems like you could figure *snicker* something out with the character creation at the beginning. If not, you could always go to New World where all there female characters have front bulges. Sorry, the character models only go one way there...

rpa

While the character customization options were basically dude with no boobs or dude with boobs in New World at least there was no gender discrimination with beards and hair if I remember correctly.

StarOfElyon

disintegr8 wrote: »

I'm not really sure what defines a male or female head anymore, especially in today's world.

Yeah really.

kinguardian

No just No

rpa

It's not reality, it's a high fantasy game. Which also has plenty of non-straight npcs and even a playable race of gender changers. But I would not expect Rack 2 level character customisation.

thedoodle_90

AN easier solution would be take away gender from collectables (hair facial hair makeup etc)
And make both voice options available to both sexes. Because "Heroic" on female characters already give very masculine looks. And you can make a female body with a flat chest.

UntilValhalla13

I mean, we can't even get black hair for high elves.

Wolfchild07

Too much messing with new meshes for that sort of thing, I think. Time and money would be better spent putting a rapture-like event in-game.

prof-dracko

[snip]

Do the polymorphed spriggans riding around with Volendrung on the back of a flaming wolf not already do that for you? Weird definition of immersion.

[edited to remove quote]

defcon.dealer1b14_ESO

No.

ZOS_Volpe

Hi,

There has been a few more baiting comments as well as some back and forth that was removed from this discussion. Please remember to remain civil and constructive when giving feedback.